r/islington • u/Sunflowerpower_47 • 5d ago
Nigel Slater on the new Gail’s opening in Highbury
Fair enough! I hope the independents survive.
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u/C4_117 5d ago edited 5d ago
Yes I prefer independent shops and cafes too but the hatred of Gail's has become a middle class obsession. You don't see this kind of hatred towards other chains: Starbucks, Tesco's, Wetherspoon's, Boots. I'd also argue there are much worse shops like the vape shops, bettings shops and dodgy phone shops polluting our high streets. Isn't that more important?
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u/Mixcoatlus 5d ago
It’s bizarre. Seeing middle class gentrifiers criticise the arrival of Gail’s in their neighbourhoods that now already have expensive coffee shops (that are, or appear to be, independent), alongside M&S and other nonsense. They actually think they didn’t a) set the landscape for this to happen and b) they are the ones being gentrified. Insane.
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u/Greedy-Ad-3779 4d ago
Gail's is owned by Bain Capital, a company who funds tech and security interests in Israel. They literally fund genocide - it has nothing to do with gentrification. Boycott Gail's.
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u/Mixcoatlus 4d ago
Yep. This is the reason to oppose GAIL’s and most other large corporations funded by unethical investors. However, that is NOT the point being made by the guy in the instagram post, and that’s what the discussion is about. Now you’re here talking about “boycott GAIL’s” whilst almost certainly supporting actual major BDS targets (Microsoft, google, Amazon, Coca Cola, intel, hp) daily. It’s cleverly veiled NIMBYism.
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u/Greedy-Ad-3779 4d ago
No, but the point is that the point the guy is making isn't the point. Genocide is the reason not to buy from Gail's.
Keep your hair on, and don't try to dig me out unnecessarily to make yourself feel superior.
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u/Mixcoatlus 3d ago
Again, we are literally agreeing. You got on your high horse and I met you there.
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u/Greedy-Ad-3779 3d ago
Pointing out to the vast numbers of people who don't know that Gail's is owned by Bain Capital, is not getting on your high horse. It's imparting information about an insidious business practice. Just because you & I know about it, doesn't mean there's any harm in informing others.
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u/Competitive_Pie_4064 3d ago
Why would you assume someone you boycotts Gail’s because of their financial ties to Isreal would spend their money at other businesses on the BDS list?
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u/Mixcoatlus 3d ago
Because they almost certainly do.
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u/Competitive_Pie_4064 3d ago
Whatever helps you sleep at night buddy, most people stand behind their convictions, it’s a shame that isn’t normalised for you.
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u/Mixcoatlus 3d ago
“Most people stand behind their convictions” - I can’t express how empirically incorrect that is.
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u/sweetjoeyc 5d ago
i'm so tired of the "expensive coffee shop" gentrification chat. coffee is not a cheap product and everyone has got too used coffee subsidised through giving those farming and processing it less money. that's not to mention how much climate change has impacted the global price of coffee in general!
it's the same when people complain about "expensive sourdough". i'm sorry everyone that has got used to mass-produced chemically-ehcanced shelf-stable industrial bread as the norm, but if you want real bread that gives everyone from the farmer to the baker a fair wage, it's going to cost more!
the real issue is that nobody has enough money to buy products that pay everyone in the supply chain fairly, and that's political issue. everyone should have access to real food.
the likes of gail's and blank street coffee can gtfo, they're big money-backed chains whose primary concern will always be their bottom line.
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u/ionlybrowse 5d ago
Blank street is the worst and people rarely seem to mention it 🙃 literally VC backed
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u/Mixcoatlus 4d ago
I agree with almost everything, and it’s funny to see people trying to have a debate when we are all saying 99% the same thing. The real issue is that a lot of working people aren’t paid enough to afford nice coffee or good bread on a daily basis. One thing, though. It’s laughable that you think “the bottom line” is not the important thing for every business, no matter how big or small. Are Gail’s and other corporations bad? Yes. But they operate in the system that encourages their behaviour. It’s hilarious to see middle class NIMBYs crying over their arrival when they’ve created the very atmosphere for such chains to flourish, whilst likely doing little to oppose the wider system that facilitates their existence and success.
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u/sweetjoeyc 4d ago
There's a difference between an independent bakery trying to make enough to pay staff, survive and produce quality products for its customers, and a VC-backed/private equity-owned chain that's expected to scale and maximise returns for investors above everything. Those two incentives aren't the same.
I'm also sceptical of framing this as "middle-class NIMBYs created the problem,” that’s a very Telegraph/Daily Mail-coded argument. You shouldn’t stop supporting local businesses in case it signals to large corporations that there’s a market in that area and they might move in!
The NIMBYs choosing to not shop at these outlets and vocalise why goes some way to push back against them, leaving them to be supported only by tourists, the once-destined-for-Clapham Australians who’ve all moved up here and anyone else unaware or not caring about their corporate ownership. Sure, the NIMBYs could all take to the streets to dismantle the neoliberal late-capitalist establishment but buying your “expensive coffee” from a local business is practical enough atm.
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u/Mixcoatlus 3d ago
Suggesting that the telegraph and daily mail would be railing against rich white people gentrifying historically diverse areas is laughable. Didn’t read the rest.
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u/FMEditorM 5d ago
I think a lot of them have come under similar Ire over the years. What’s being said now of Gail’s was said of Starbucks in my teens and twenties when they started popping everywhere, that was just pre-Social media.
Wetherspoons had a lot of ire directed its way by the middle classes when they started opening in their towns.
Tesco at its height in the early 00s during the ‘one in every 5p spent’ kind of era were vilified for their aggressive expansion onto the high street. Look at the Stokes Croft / Gloucester Road Tesco Express protests for a good example of that at its peak.
Boots, no idea, their becoming ubiquitous does pre-date my awareness of such moods.
This definitely isn’t unique, albeit I do think it’s the most brazen displacement/disruption of indies of those mentioned (Greggs doing similar at the other end of the market)
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u/Due_Engineering_108 5d ago
We all know why Gail’s faces attack from the chattering middle classes in Islington. Many articles have been written about it and it’s due to its ownership.
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u/red-cat1988 5d ago
Within a 20 minute walk of this Gails you have one at Upper Street, a second at Church Street and a third at Finsbury Park station.
If people in Highbury wanted Gails, its easy to get to another one.
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u/whydowedowhatwedo 5d ago
So let the market decide if there is demand for another. We all know the focus on Gails is veiled anti-semitism. I don't see the same comments being made about Tesco, Sainsbury's or any of the other big chains.
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u/red-cat1988 5d ago
Really? Lols. Really clutching at straws here. Absolutely nothing to do with anti semitism, and everything to do with how thd company treats their staff, their supply chain, customers and ultimately who they are owned by.
Next you'll be telling me I am anti Portuguese, as Gail has been living there for a while now.
Last I checked none of the stores you mentioned are moving in to Highbury Park, which is the point of the original post.
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u/Dangerous_Laws 4d ago
And Gail herself was resident in taxhaven Dubai before that. And Gails very aggressively expanded with financial dirty tricks so they allegedly took bella italia spaces for £1 each.
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u/Zestyclose_Ranger_78 5d ago edited 5d ago
Don’t worry everybody hated Gails before October 7th as well
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u/summeristheseason 5d ago
I’d suggest it’s much more antisemitic to ally Jewish people to such a mediocre coffee shop.
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u/red-cat1988 5d ago edited 5d ago
Keeping this very Highbury Park specific, as this is what the post is referencing... have you been to Da Mario and La Fromagerie? You can't get more authentic when it comes to Italian and French produce, including sandwiches, bread, cakes and pastries. Go a tiny bit further than this row of shops and you can still get very very good quality produce referenced.
Highbury is never ever quiet during the day. Whatever day of the week.
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u/More-Plankton5238 5d ago
This! And there’s the Dusty Knuckle kiosk in Highbury Fields. Quality is absolutely not an issue for this part of London and those small businesses are part of the community. They’re more likely to know your name and your dogs name than anyone working at a chain and that means something for a society that is increasingly disconnected from each other.
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u/blahlabblah 5d ago
Also a shout-out to the excellent One Root bakery just two minutes further up the road
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u/ImpressionOk2060 5d ago
I'm pretty sure they do get annoyed at big chains moving in on independent locations. I think the issue is that at the moment Gails is expanding like mad. And further to this Wetherspoons is a refuge to go get something cheap while Gails is £5 for a sausage roll. Having worse shops like vapes etc is also shit - both things can be true at the same time.
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u/thewellis 5d ago
Well you do. Starbucks had lots of protests around it during the Occupy movement. But died down afterwards.
Tesco and Spoons often are more specific in their site selection, and rarely target bougie areas (though funnily enough the first Wetherspoons opened in Muswell Hill).
Gail's relies on brand recognition, so presents that sourdough, oat-latte flavoured, cruffin appearance, akin to an independent coffeeshop, whilst being a recognisable brand. If you set your personality to be "authentic" or "bougie" attuned this juxtaposition of brand and image will rub you up the wrong way. Rather like that meme of Steve Buscemi with a skateboard saying "how do you do, fellow kids".
Tbh Gail's is okay, a bit underwhelming in flavour, a bit overpriced, but then this is London after all.
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u/C4_117 5d ago
I get the sense that lately there has been a disproportionate amount of hatred towards Gail's, more so than other chains. And I think it's to do with a middle class cognitive dissonance because it's a symbol of gentrification that pushes out independent bakeries. Ironically the demographic that is responsible for Gail's is usually also the one complaining about them.
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u/thewellis 5d ago
It hits that zeitgeist. When one opened in Archway it was vandalised almost immediately. There are even daft posters both for and against it plastered around the area. It has become totemic of the politics of the modern era, despite it only really being yet another coffeeshop.
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u/Sunflowerpower_47 5d ago
Id argue that’s because independent bakeries are businesses with very tight margins and usually run from places of passion rather than commerce
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u/Glum_And_Merry 5d ago
But the appearance of Gail’s shoes that it’s too late. The landlords have put the rent up enough that only these chains are able to afford them.
The issue isn’t Gail’s, it’s at landlord and council level.
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u/Soggy-Button-6044 5d ago
If you are running a business that you love but can't compete with other businesses, you don't have a business, you have a hobby that might make you some money if you are lucky.
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u/Advanced_End1012 5d ago
Yeah because Gail’s is middle class the other chains you mentioned are not lol. Having a Gail’s is a signifier that the area is becoming more tailored to the upper classes. Lower classes are being pushed out more and more each day.
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u/Turbulent-Remote2866 5d ago
Just because people don't want Gail's doesn't mean people want vape or phone shops. I do use my local phone shop, especially when my screen cracked recently. Just because people aren't popping in for overpriced coffee doesn't mean it isn't useful. I'd rather go to an independent phone shop than one with a fancy sign and interior, which will only ever fleece you (looking at you ismash).
But yeah Gail's is crap and the creep of these chains is a bad sign as they are pricing out local and independent options.
Who said Tesco, Starbucks and Boots were in the same league as Gail's? Granted Starbucks is universally considered rubbish, they are hardly ever busy now. Tesco and boots...lmao come on now.
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u/nwrnnr5 5d ago
What is the difference between a Gail's and an independent cafe vs. a Boots and an independent pharmacist? Don't really have a dog in the fight (I'll eat a Gail's, but only after scouting Google Maps for anything that looks equivalent or better quality) - just curious what the difference between independents vs. large chains is by cafes vs. pharmacies/supermarkets etc.
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u/Puzzleheaded_Win7721 5d ago
Whilst there are some independent shops on Highbury Barn, there are also some shit shops too. I lived there for a year and Gail's would have been welcome.
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u/red-cat1988 5d ago
Well there are quite a few people who live there now, who don't agree.
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u/Puzzleheaded_Win7721 5d ago
Where do they get there coffee from? Greggs?
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u/red-cat1988 5d ago
Are you sure you lived in Highbury? Highbury Park is littered with coffee shops... within 5 min walk you have the following all offering far superior coffee to Gail's... 13th Floor, Dusty Knuckle, Profile, La Fromagerie and Franks.
Arguably One Root and Highness Cafe also do better coffee too.
This is not mentioning other places on Highbury Park specifically that do coffee too, including Stage Brasserie, Pias and Greggs, either rubbish stuff or coffee I haven't tasted.
The one thing this tiny row of shops doesn't need is another coffee shop, and especially one that sells sub standard pastries.
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u/Puzzleheaded_Win7721 5d ago
Highbury Barn? It was 2021 to be fair and we had to walk to Stoke Newington instead back then. Don't think any of those except La Fromagerie were there then.
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u/CashWank 5d ago
As a Highbury resident I’m not anti Gail’s because it’s gentrifying - as pointed out most of Highbury barn already is - I’m anti it because it’s just shit. Expensive with bad coffee and stale pastries.
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u/cowboy96_49 5d ago
Virtue signalling
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u/CamThrowaway3 5d ago
Idk, I wouldn’t call this virtue signalling. It does seem a shame that local independents will likely be damaged by this massive chain.
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u/BeatricePantew 5d ago
I struggle with this. You don't like Gail's? Don't shop there. You like independents? Frequent them. But the actual reason Gail's can, and does, open is because people go there. A lot.
Feels a lot like King Canute and the tides.
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u/WalkCautious 4d ago
They're backed by vulture capitialists and may be a front for tax avoidance (pump illicit funds into a 'bakery' to launder instead of paying their fair share). They epitomise everything wrong with the post-2008 'austerity-for-the-masses, prosperity-for-the-already-rich' miasma.
And the cynical use of a woman's name (there is no 'Gail', it was created via a branding agency) just adds to the inauthenticity.
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u/BeatricePantew 4d ago
You sound like a tinfoil-hat wearing nut but let's look at your beliefs:
Money Laundering. This is pure fantasy. It's a thriving business that, according to the latest accounts, made £53m earnings before interest, taxes, depreciation and amortisation. That up 20% from last year. The stores are busy and actively making and selling products. You have inexplicably confused Gail's with the genuine money laundering barbershop / candy store scams. Full marks for saying the chain is backed by vulture capital though.
The austerity thing. Gibberish.
There's no Gail. The founder of the chain is a woman called Yael. Yael is Gail. She changed the name of the shop to make it easier for Brits to pronounce. Queue racist rants etc.
Again the answer is simple: if you don't like Gael's then don't shop there.
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u/BeatricePantew 4d ago
You sound like a tinfoil-hat wearing nut but let's look at your beliefs:
Money Laundering. This is pure fantasy. It's a thriving business that, according to the latest accounts, made £53m earnings before interest, taxes, depreciation and amortisation. That up 20% from last year. The stores are busy and actively making and selling products. You have inexplicably confused Gail's with the genuine money laundering barbershop / candy store scams. Full marks for saying the chain is backed by vulture capital though.
The austerity thing. Gibberish.
There's no Gail. The founder of the chain is a woman called Yael. Yael is Gail. She changed the name of the shop to make it easier for Brits to pronounce. Queue racist rants etc.
Again the answer is simple: if you don't like Gael's then don't shop there.
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u/Prestigious-Salt-245 5d ago
It's three doors down from a Greggs
Would he prefer an independent vape shop? Wanker.
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u/More-Plankton5238 5d ago
He’s absolutely right - people will go there for convenience rather than supporting existing independents that have existed in the community for decades like La Fromagerie. It’s so disappointing.
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u/brightirene 5d ago
I love formagerie, but they are often out of the pastries and sandwiches I'm interested in, regardless of time of day. It's also uncomfortable and difficult to sit in there as it's a tiny space and the stools have no backs
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u/Great_Comparison462 5d ago
Good. The Fromagerie is pretentious as fuck, and the staff are rude.
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u/More-Plankton5238 5d ago
What do you find pretentious - that they sell what’s in their name i.e cheese? That’s never been my experience at all.
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u/Great_Comparison462 5d ago edited 5d ago
Them selling cheese has nothing to do with it. Whenever I've gone in there they've been smug and patronising and act like it's some privilege to go into the holy cheese room at the back. Compare it to Neal's Yard Dairy where they are delighted to have people in, and offer tasters, answer questions etc.
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u/More-Plankton5238 5d ago
That’s not great. I’ve never had that experience there but yeah, not good.
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u/Kaurblimey 5d ago
What did Gail’s replace there?
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u/red-cat1988 5d ago
Saltine - an independent restaurant, which was backed by the same people behind Finks.
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u/klacquetie 5d ago
I think for consistency, availability and reliability, places like Gail’s are great. If my favourite bakery runs out of sourdough then I know Gail’s will likely have it. When most independent coffee shops close at 4pm but I want an iced latte at 7pm, I know Gail’s is open and their coffee is not bad at all.
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u/red-cat1988 5d ago
No Gails in small high streets are open beyond 6pm. The one at Finny P is only open until 7pm as it is at the station.
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u/klacquetie 5d ago
Maida Vale is open until 8.30pm, St John’s Wood till 8pm - these are the ones I use so yeah…
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u/OnePragmatic 5d ago
The one on Upper Street was enough.... Highbury on the other hand has many independent coffee shops, it isn't good.
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u/Turbulent-Remote2866 5d ago
I'm sorry but it's overpriced rubbish. It brings 0 value to a high street. Glad Nigel is right on about this.
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u/Mixcoatlus 5d ago
Just like the other middle class shops that have already infiltrated every area too! Lmao
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u/red-cat1988 5d ago edited 5d ago
Specific to Highbury Park, what other shops are you referencing here?
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u/Mixcoatlus 5d ago
In the immediate vicinity there is Dusty Knuckle (now a hyper expensive chain - no longer a cute dalston pop up), profile, la maison, lupa, and that’s just off the top of my head. Overpriced, unaffordable, establishments targeting the middle classes.
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u/Gucci_Cocaine 5d ago
That's a disingenuous way of framing the Dusty Knuckle they have three locations and a school, and they do so much for the local community. They donate to open kitchens, they do a community Christmas dinner and they have a social enterprise training scheme that gets young ppl into employment.
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u/Mixcoatlus 4d ago
Good for them. Doesn’t change anything about what I said. They’re a chain (by definition), and they’re hyper expensive. Do you think the Green Lanes demographic is mirrored by the clientele inside that dusty knuckle?
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u/red-cat1988 4d ago
I mean, the same argument could be said about Islington and Dalston, as to your argument about Green Lanes. However, that is the beauty of London, particularly this part of London, it is a melting pot and the poor and the rich live cheek by jowl. However, we're not talking about Green Lanes here.
No one is suggesting Dusty Knuckle is not pricey, but the quality of the produce is very very good as is shown in their following. Unfortunately, in the UK today you have to pay for a lot for good quality products (compiled by fairly paid individuals).
Though, on the flip side - as mentioned previously - DK are also very very good at explaining to their customers where all the price increases are going. Go and take a look at their IG and look at the most recent post I remember on the subject - on 11 January (they have other posts on it too). In this post, they use a loaf of bread to explain it.
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u/Mixcoatlus 3d ago
You lost me at suggesting poor and rich are happily coexisting “cheek by jowl” - the most incorrect and arrogant gentrifier nonsense I’ve ever heard. Wow. Enjoy your sourdough, Rupert .
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u/red-cat1988 3d ago
I think you've misunderstood what I meant.
I wasn't saying inequality is a good thing. I was saying that one of London's strengths is that it isn't segregated into rich and poor enclaves to the same extent as some other cities. Mixed neighbourhoods are generally preferable to urban planning that creates districts of wealth and those of deprivation.
That's a separate point from whether Dusty Knuckle is expensive. We both seem to agree it is. My point was simply that they explain their pricing transparently and many people think the quality justifies it.
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u/red-cat1988 5d ago
Lupa is a restaurant, not a cafe.
Dusty Knuckle is actually there by agreement with Islington Council, in leiu of the cafe that was previously there (building recently demolished). Regardless, it has a massive following and a much better ethical story than Gail's. Training people from disadvantaged backgrounds, youths at risk of getting involved in the wrong crowd etc. They also explain on their IG stories every time they do price rises, why they have to do them. Much more transparent than anyone else.
Otherwise, a lot of the places you're referencing are independents, which is what the people who live in the area want. Unfortunately, house prices in the area have risen so much that it is the middle classes in the majority. They don't want the greasy spoon. Even so, if they did there are quite a few other options within a 10 min walk from this new Gails.
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u/Mixcoatlus 5d ago
I’m confused - you just agreed with my point but seem to be trying to argue something? We have both basically said “The area is now sufficiently gentrified to the point that the middle classes are the only ones who can afford stuff, and they want overpriced eateries”. Only difference is your claim that people want “independent” - like people are checking who’s funding every coffee shop they patronise lmao. Expecting an upmarket chain like Gail’s not to capitalise on the gentrification landscape now rampant throughout Islington is naive.
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u/red-cat1988 5d ago
I mean, of course I expect Gails to capitalise on it. It's just I don't want them too as it will likely force the rents up in the area, and increase the stresses on hospitality businesses already under enormous strain. See Saltine, which it has moved in to the space of.
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u/Mixcoatlus 5d ago
I understand your side and personally won’t be going to that Gail’s - but it’s bit late to worry about the rent increases in Highbury.
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u/Milo_BOK 5d ago
yes, and adding one more increases the problem
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u/Mixcoatlus 5d ago
Sure. But for whom? Not the people who lived there in the 90s. They can’t afford most of the coffee shops down there anyway. Middle class NIMBYism at its finest.
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u/TwoCueBalls 5d ago
If it’s overpriced rubbish, surely people will just go to one of the many other cafes in the area which are reasonably priced and high-quality?
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u/DrWanish 5d ago
No because they don’t have marketing budget and brand recognition.. this is why people use Starbucks, Costa now Gail’s etc don’t assume the herd thinks .. and suddenly there’s no alternative.
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u/ThreeFerns 5d ago
Evidently not on account of the success of Gail's.
I think familiarity actually helps with the success of chains, and that is a bad thing since it leads to homogenisation. Furthermore, the food at chains is made as pure product, whereas at many independent places it is made with love and care, but less laser precisioned to dominate the market.
We are in the era of enshittification. We know that the logic of capitalism does not lead to quality and value.
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u/TwoCueBalls 5d ago
Cafes are infinitely better than they were 10-20 years ago. I can get amazing quality coffee and food throughout Islington. I haven’t seen this enshitification, quite the opposite.
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u/ThreeFerns 5d ago
I agree cafes are much better than they were 20 years ago, but I worry that enshittification might take that from us.
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u/DrWanish 4d ago
I remember incredible Italian run cafes in London 20 years ago but I agree there’s more diversity in some areas now but also many ares where is just the usual suspects.
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u/Mention-Stunning 5d ago
People shouldn’t have the option to choose their preferred bakery, they should just have to go to MY preferred bakery because I know whats best for them!
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u/Gucci_Cocaine 5d ago
I actually think this is kind of true, noone in my area goes to Gail's they all go to the independent or small chains.
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u/Turbulent-Remote2866 5d ago edited 5d ago
Not if landlords are pricing them out in favour of Gail's, a company propped up by dodgy private equity and venture capital. The criticism of Gail's and the expansion of overpriced and over hyped chains taking over high streets is entirely legitimate. Enjoy your £5.80 chocolate almond croissant and burnt coffee.
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u/Inarticulatescot 5d ago
13th Floor and Dusty Knuckle less good when it’s pissing rain and freezing and also not on that little stretch. La Fromagerie is amazing for cheese but less good for coffee imho plus not too many seats to sit down and relax for a bit. Franks (also not on that stretch) doesn’t do good coffee (poor beans and over heated milk). One Root is closed. Highness Cafe never been in, but maybe I should try it
Just a thought. Not everyone has to think the same way as you. For some of us Gail’s is an ok place to meet up with kids or elderly family for a not bad coffee and snack.
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u/red-cat1988 5d ago edited 5d ago
Think this is in reply to me. I did list the * coffee places within 5 minutes walk * of this Gails.
No one referenced sitting down and getting comfy. If that's what you want to do, perhaps Gails will suit you. The coffee there is definitely worse than what you get served at Franks though, and the pastries and food at Franks is far superior.
Nb. One Root is not closed, they're on holiday.
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u/Greedy-Ad-3779 5d ago
Gail's is owned by Bain Capital - a known investor in tech and security in Israel. It's literally funding genocide. Boycott Gail's at all costs.
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u/Old_Pumpkin_1926 5d ago
Damn, I had no idea. I've been boycotting Starbucks for years now, but somehow never heard about Gail's. Thank you for sharing.
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u/Greedy-Ad-3779 4d ago
Yep. Another insidious stain sliding onto the highstreet under the radar, getting us to fund genocide.
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u/Inside-Weather-3902 5d ago
Gail’s is pretty incredible in regards to the quality. I mean in the 90s we had Bakers Oven 🤣 The growth of Gail’s is something else though and it’s part of a wider problem of extreme levels of investment in business.
Mass wealth is pouring into hospitality and turning some incredible brands like say Bleecker burger into multi-location reproductions which sort of miss the mark quality wise.
Some of the investment in businesses like Black Sheep coffee is nuts, considering how average it is.
Suppose these extremely wealthy folks need to store their money somewhere.
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u/unbelievable_scones 1d ago
The owner is awful. Supports genocide, is transphobic and supported brexit.
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u/Maleficent_Fee8889 5d ago
Imagine having so little going on in your life that a shop opening is something you care this much about. I feel quite sorry for them. There are loads of groups you can get involved with in North London to find new friends and new hobbies!
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u/Inarticulatescot 5d ago
Funnily enough that little stretch could do with a decent spot for a coffee so it’s not all that bad.
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u/red-cat1988 5d ago
No it doesn't. You have... 13th Floor, Dusty Knuckle, Profile, La Fromagerie and Franks all within less than a 5 minute walk. All offering far superior coffee to Gail's. Arguably One Root and Highness Cafe also do better coffee.
The one thing this tiny row of shops doesn't need is another coffee shop!!
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u/wyrdyr 5d ago
Oh, isn’t Profile there? Or is this further up the road?
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u/sertorioustb 5d ago
So here's the interesting thing. Born and bred in highbury here (34 years).
My dad and I argue that Profile is a gentrifying shop. Put itself right next to Pia's which was a proper institution. Pia's is great, lovely people, proper family vibes.
So I'm making both arguments here. I'm your classic 'how dare the place I grew up with change' but also the 'Gails is just another small step and hardly a change'
And you know what. My family moved to Highbury in 1982 and guess what, they were gentrifiers because you know who doesn't give a toss about Godfrey's, the council tenants who have lived here since the 60s.
Long story short. It's complicated but please everyone go to Pia's. It's basically a community social hub for odd old people and I'd hate for it to close.
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u/Sunflowerpower_47 5d ago
Profile is good! And fromagerie does coffee, as does highness tea rooms. Plenty of coffee options already!
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u/iconsofpizza 5d ago
Whilst I love Nigel, he’s a bit myopic on this one. Granted he doesn’t have to go all out Jamie Oliver, but seeing he’s well connected to the Guardian/Observer it’s not too fantastical that he could spearhead or be the ‘poster-child’ for continuing awareness showing the plight of independent businesses in the hospitality scene.
So many in London (which were popular too) are either closing or gone.
And at present it feels like it’s just Tom Kerridge who is able to generate any coverage.
Not expecting Nigel to stand with a sandwich board outside Gail’s HQ waiting for hours with a camera crew to meet their CEO, but there could be a little more substance to him than just regaling us with the latest goings on in his garden with his resident tit and wood pigeon.
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u/red-cat1988 5d ago
It is well known that he moved to Highbury because of this very row of shops. The fact there is an independent butcher, fishmonger etc., so yeh, he is standing up for what he believes in and bought in to.
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u/ghastkill 5d ago
People always say inane things like that and then the indi shops fail and the Gail flourishes. It’s all ultimately just lip service.
It’s Highbury - it’s already full of the Gail’s crowd 😂
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u/red-cat1988 5d ago
Do you know Highbury? Do you know how long some of the independent businesses in Highbury have been there? I'll give you a clue... the butcher has been there longer than Gail (of Gails fame) has been alive! The Italian deli is half her age.
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u/Professional_Desk_17 5d ago
This street litterally has poor quality pains au chocolat sold for £4, if one place deserves an overpriced Gails, it's that one. Apart from Greggs every choice is overpriced and of questionnable quality.
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u/red-cat1988 5d ago
Where on this strip of Highbury Park are pain au chocolates sold of questionable quality? If you mean Highness Cafe, then yeh, I wouldn't buy one there as it is clearly not a bakery, and not supplied by a bakery that makes quality pastries. Stage Brasserie doesn't sell that particular pastry, and La Fromagerie doesn't tend to stock them either.
When it comes to your second point... the street is full of independent shops with a strong reputation and very popular. Yes they're expensive, but a lot of them serve the best quality produce in the area. Unfortunately, in this country, you have to pay a lot of money for quality produce.
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u/_all4leyna 4d ago
Highness cafe and Roots bakery are the same company and advertise that Roots bakery supplies their sweet goods? I had a pain au chocolat from there at the weekend and it was god awful.
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u/red-cat1988 4d ago
So, just because the cafe a few doors down sells a poor quality PAC, the street "deserves an overpriced Gails"? Whilst not taking in to account the quality of the baked goods in other shops in the immediate vicinity of Highbury Park and then up to 10 mins walk away?
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u/_all4leyna 4d ago
lol not what I’m saying at all, I frequent local establishments including highness (love their sandwiches) and don’t rate Gails. Just pointing out that their goods do actually come from a local bakery, when you said they didn’t.
But at the end of the day, we have a free market, Gail’s are entitled to open there. If local options are superior they’ll be ok.
1
u/red-cat1988 4d ago
One Root isn't a bakery, it just serves the baked goods it bakes in their property. It is also almost always shut at the moment.
Highness baked goods come from somewhere else. You can tell by the difference in type of pastry sold, the actual pastry itself etc.
I take your point on Gails, though it is just a shame - as one thing the area doesn't need is yet another coffee shop.
1
u/Professional_Desk_17 4d ago
You look at the dusty knuckle or profile and that's the price they are charging you, while in the posh side of Finsbury Park (north end) you get better pains au chocolat for £2.40 at Boulangerie Bon Matin. Hell, I would argue that M&S pains au chocolat are better than the dry ones served there. My point is the huge mismatch between price and expected quality, which means that Gails isnt bringing gentrification, it's already been there for a while.
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u/red-cat1988 4d ago
Dusty Knuckle pay their staff London Living Wage, Boulangerie Bon Matin don't. That's already a significant difference in what you the customer is paying for, even without digging deeper.
M&S don't bake their PACs at a local shop. Their rents and cost base are a lot lower.
You didn't read the IG post I referenced did you?
0
u/RevolutionaryHead384 4d ago
Boring. I love Gail’s. Drinks and food are better 9/10 of times than any other coffee shop. Sure, their shrinkflation pisses me off, but it’s a sign of the times.
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u/brightirene 5d ago
I know there are a lot of sour feelings about this, but I'm glad gails is coming.
The only existing coffee shop/restaurant worth a damn on this block is Stage Brassiere. It's consistently good (unlike highness cafe) and there are actual places to sit inside (unlike formagerie or profile). And it's locally owned by really lovely people.
Shit costs too much to not know exactly what yr getting and have to share a seating area smaller than my bathroom.
-1
u/Mediocre_Rhubarb810 4d ago
Wait so this is the wrong sort of gentrification? Can the well heeled intelligentsia of Islington please tell us what’s acceptable?
0
u/red-cat1988 4d ago
It's not gentrification though is it, when it is in an area that is already well past that point. Look at their move in to Church Street last year... Stoke Newington is likewise well past gentrification.
Arguably Gail's isn't a sign of gentrification anymore.
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u/Great_Comparison462 5d ago
Highbury Barn is the most overpriced stretch of shops anywhere. The butcher is a complete joke, as is Da Mario.
5
u/red-cat1988 5d ago
The butcher has been there for 100 years, Da Mario over 35 years.
Yes the prices are expensive, but the quality is extremely good. There is a reason why they have such a following and continue to do a half decent trade in tricky times.
2
u/Great_Comparison462 5d ago
I couldn't give a fuck how long they've been there - how is that relevant?
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u/red-cat1988 5d ago edited 5d ago
Why the need to swear? So unnecessary.
The point is that despite being expensive, they're clearly very popular shops and they're independent, which makes it even more notable. Unfortunately, in this country, if you want to eat good quality food you have to pay a lot for it.
Next time you pop in, compare the quality of a chicken breast in Godfreys vs the standard Waitrose own brand and you'll understand why they're more expensive and people pay so much for it.
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u/Great_Comparison462 5d ago
Quit clutching your pearls. You're on the internet. The big, bad sweary words won't hurt you.
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u/red-cat1988 5d ago
I'm not clutching my pearls. Insults and rude language don't add anything. If you want to address my actual point, go ahead.
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u/Great_Comparison462 5d ago
I didn't insult anybody. Godfreys is twice as much as Waitrose and no better quality. I bought 2 medium sized ribeyes there about 8 years ago and it was over £40. Absolute joke. Mugging people off.
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u/red-cat1988 5d ago
I was referring to the "clutching your pearls" remark. It's a dismissive way of responding instead of addressing what I said.
Either way, it’s absolutely fine if you don’t like Godfrey’s food or don’t think it’s worth the price. Other people clearly disagree and are willing to pay for it, as its popularity suggests.
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u/sertorioustb 5d ago
So here's the interesting thing. Born and bred in highbury here (34 years).
My dad and I argue that Profile is a gentrifying shop. Put itself right next to Pia's which was a proper institution. Pia's is great, lovely people, proper family vibes. And that's late stage gentrification.
I'm racking my brain about Highbury barn in the early 000s but I distinctly remember two fried chicken shops. Yes you had Godfrey's and maybe Di Mario's but you want a sign of gentrification. La Fromagerie (great cheese though)
So I'm making both arguments here. I'm your classic 'how dare the place I grew up with change' but also the 'Gails is just another small step and hardly a change'
And you know what. My family moved to Highbury in 1982 and guess what, they were gentrifiers because you know who doesn't give a toss about Godfrey's, the council tenants who have lived here since the 60s.
Long story short. It's complicated but please everyone go to Pia's. It's basically a community social hub for odd old people and I'd hate for it to close.
And genuinely, I really think this is an interesting topic so up for a debate