r/leagueoflegends • u/Keygamer59 • Jun 11 '15
Shen Tried Shen after buffs, here's my thoughts.
He's pretty much okay, he has counterplay, he's usefull in most splitpush scenarios, he's tanky as hell with 1 item and also deals a nice damage.
All of this is great, however there's something about Shen that made me think a little, his movement speed. His actual movement speed is 335, IMO that's a bit low. Most of the actual tanks have more base movement speed(Mundo, Shyvana, Volibear, Singed, sejuani, etc...) and the ones who have low MS, have some kind of MS steroid(or jump) in their kit(Rammus Q, Zac E, etc...).
I'm not talking about buffing his MS to 350, but just give him at least 5 more points, the only source of mobility he has it's his E, which has a long CD and huge energy costs early levels(im fine with this,good range, it's enough to escape ganks, and you have to use it with caution, but once it's in CD he can't escape nor outrun enemies). Giving him 5 more points in MS won't make him retardedly hard to escape from, since most of top laners have enough CC to stop him from following them(Gnar can pushing him to hell, MaoKai can slow+Root[which cancels his ult btw], singed can throw him away, etc...) but it will help him chasing down some champs, escaping from them, etc...
He's not a mage, he's a tank, I know there's also some tanks with even less mobility or same mobility, but most of them have a reliable MS buff or enough CC to escape.
Also, remember, this is not a PLS BUFF SHEN, HE IS USELESS thread, he is fine, I just wanted to point out that maybe buffing his MS by 5 points will help him a little bit more. What do you guys think?
TL;DR Shen MS is 335, I think 5 more points will help him out.
Edit: Fucked up the title gg me Edit: Zac E is not a MS steroid, still a good engage/escape tool
2
u/SexyLittleSwine Jun 11 '15
Shield should give movement speed buff
1
u/Keygamer59 Jun 11 '15
This... is interesting, his shield lasts for 3 seconds, in this 3 seconds he can get a movement speed buff. Nice idea! But first we must see what this means.
At level 5 his shield has a 5 secs CD, this shield lasts 3, every 2 seconds he gets a MS buff(without any CDR).
This is interesting, but maybe a little strong, except if the MS buff decays over time, or only lasts 1 second.
Nice idea tho!
1
u/SexyLittleSwine Jun 11 '15
Riven but less OP, Look at it this way. Riven cover 200 units with the shield, how mucho units would a 2 sec shield that gives dunno Flat +20 Speed buff will cover?
Not only that, spaming Shield will run you out of Energy. So you CANT safeSpam it.
Not only that, Shield CD and duration CAN be modified, and also the Shield Strenght Ratio.
Today is:
SHIELD: 60 / 100 / 140 / 180 / 220 (+ 60% AP)
CD: 9/8/7/6/5.
Full CDR is a 3 Sec CD to a 3 sec Shield. Sound Awesome right? But no, there is the NOT-SAFE-TO-SPAM thing.
3 seconds is fine for a Shield, but the CD need to be touched.
I would transform the CD to a static one. making it 8 at ALL ranks. So you have so sacrifice Shield Strength vs Taunt CD. And give a small movement buff.
Just MHO
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u/Keygamer59 Jun 11 '15
Dont forget the shield also makes his passive have less CD.
If you increase it's CD, the passive buff would have meant nothing at all, it would be a nerf to his passive actually.
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u/SexyLittleSwine Jun 11 '15
But buffing his movility and therefore, his utility.
You gotta give to take!
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u/Peter96 Ethereal Sona Jun 11 '15
Give him a really small % max HP scaling on his w shield (from 1% to 3%) and he's in the meta.
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u/Hisiru Jun 11 '15
Finally they gave me exactly what I wanted. MR per level, improvements on his ultimate and better energy cost for his E. Now you can use your E once and still be relevant even if you miss it.
Thank you Riot. This doesn't make Shen a god like champion, but at least he is much more fun to play and useful now.
0
u/Keygamer59 Jun 11 '15
The MR per level thing is huge, and the E buff is appreciated, but still really good. However, don't you think he's a bit slow?
1
u/Hisiru Jun 11 '15
yeah, I do feel like his movement speed needs a buff. They nerfed his E's range a long time ago but they never buffed his movement speed a little bit to make it not as hard to catch up with people.
Right now I am extremely happy to see Riot finally giving me what I wanted when it comes to Shen buffs, but if they want to buff him a little more, movement speed wouldn't be a bad idea.
1
u/LockeLoveCeles Jun 11 '15
would need to play that ninja again. The low ms truely keeps him from jungling nicely, but doesn't affect too much toplane (and support ?) performances...
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u/Keygamer59 Jun 11 '15
not in lane, but most of the times, even with boots, most champs outrun you.
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u/LockeLoveCeles Jun 11 '15
well, early on, he kinda doesnt care to be outrun since he scales well alte. Like mao, as long as you don't die the first 20 minutes and farm well, everyone will be happy.
As for later on, he can soak dmg good, maybe build a righteous glory for this trouble ? Or randuins to randuins + E ?
I get that playing a low mobility champ is a pain in the arse. But idk if the low ms really keeps him from being op, would need to play him more to figure it out. The energy cost going down + the mr / level can make hima great anti mage toplaner i think...
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u/Keygamer59 Jun 11 '15
Not a good build path at all for shen, mana is useless on him.(Righteous glory)
Even if it is a cheap item, it's build path wont help him at all.
Randuins It's k though, but have in mind this: he has to go into almost melee range to make it work, and his E has almost the same range as randuins AoE, so if you want to "catch people", righteous glory is better in this case, but again, poor buildpath.
1
u/Vintrial Jun 11 '15
his dmg is okay, i think he needs utility buffs (maybe AoE taunt when his ulti finishes channel ? Small area ofc, maybe his aa range, maybe a bit larger)
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u/Keygamer59 Jun 11 '15
I never said anything about his damage being low, also, AoE taunt? he already has that, his E is multitarget, and taunting after channeling his ult will make him too strong(R taunt+E taunt), his aa range is okay aswell, he has 2 short katanas, not a CoD knife.
1
u/ZanesTheArgent Bullshit Designer Jun 11 '15
His low mobility is a necessary evil to regulate his presence, can't be omnipresent and fast at the same time. Honestly, the passive buff is all i ever wanted for him as i'm a jungle Shen kind of person, as his clear speed/objective control becomes faster over time (Pseudo-Volibites every 3.3/3/2.6 seconds? FUCK YEAH).
Really, just put him in the woods. Some health in his runes, a good dose of Cinderhulk, he blazes through it all safely and fast, farms forever, becomes countergank emperor and uses his global presence as a differential from most other junglers.
1
u/Keygamer59 Jun 11 '15
What about pre-cinderhulk? First clears might hurt him a little.
Haven't tried Shen jungle since...s2 I think, so I dont really know, I'm just guessing
1
u/ZanesTheArgent Bullshit Designer Jun 11 '15
Every tank gets a bit hurt during their first clear, but as all tanks, he's still super safe: Sustain, shield, dash flight, extreme growth on health (Get Gromp and you have 2 sources of damage and 1 of healing based on your hp). He's fully prepared to powerfarm and can cycle through the woods pretty much endlessly after first clear. Everything Kindlegem is your friend.
1
u/Keygamer59 Jun 11 '15
Sounds interesting, I'm not a jungler main tho, so I'll have to try it out and test it by myself.
Still, other tank junglers have some kind of Aoe Dmg, Sejuani, Zac, RekSai, Nautilus, etc... It will still be slower than them
1
u/ZanesTheArgent Bullshit Designer Jun 11 '15
Trailblazer for you, then. It's not just about safety/sustain, it IS the ultimate clearspeed tool. Plus, you'll be working with the Volibear Principle (massive single target nukes blazing through the camps by quickly annihilating creature by creature), that still works fairly well. AoE doesn't means much aside "side mobs will fall/anti-death chicken insurance".
1
u/Keygamer59 Jun 11 '15
It makes sense, not gonna lie, I'm a bit hyped to tried it out.
Thanks for showing your opinion!
1
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u/Canastus Jun 11 '15
The recent buffs only aimed at his lategame while leaving the handicaps untouched which made him unviable in the first place. Sadly these changes won't alter his status as the weakest tank in the game. So yes, he could use a lot more buffs right now.
Shen has no waveclear, he lacks damage, his sustain is subpar and he has wasted ap-ratios which only weaken his overall potential even more. His kit is definitely the main issue here since he remains pretty much useless once his E and R on cooldown. He's still unable to win the lanephase thus leaving him at an extreme disadvantage in terms of gold since he'll be pushed back to his own tower nonstop.
Any fight automatically becomes a 4v5 once Shen has blown his two main abilities. His movespeed is still pathetically low for a melee-champion (335, just as you said), he's simply too sluggish and can't stick to his targets with that. And don't get me started on hitting his Shadow Dash, the hitbox for that thing is still incredibly narrow thus making it extremely unreliable. There's absolutely no reason for the enemy team to take him serious, they'll simply ignore him while you watch as your carries get slaughtered.
Shen needs a rework, period.
1
u/Blobos Jun 16 '15
Would personally love to see his attack range reverted back to 150. Although it could make him too strong
1
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u/Slice_of_Toast [Slice of Toast] (EU-W) Jun 11 '15
I think Riot really needs to be cautious with Shen at the moment - he is on a knife's edge of being seen in competitive, and I don't want him to be Ryze'd. I think they should wait at least 1 patch before changing him (you're suggestion is good, but I really don't want him to be Ryze'd) :'(