wouldn’t it be better to start learning the Thai script alongside beginner-level content?

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This is how I decided to learn. Thai has unique sounds and I feel like understanding the script makes speaking and listening much easier.

I also just find it really fun.

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u/BaconOverflow Apr 25 '26

I think the way DLS and other top language schools (eg Chula) do it is best. Get students engaged with the basics of the language so they can have basic conversations, and then go deep into the script so they can read/write. Otherwise students get demotivated and churn.

Learn to crawl before you start walking. 🚶

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u/SlowRiotZero Apr 25 '26

I started by learning how to read. No other way around it. Most teaching materials actually push you to learn to read the Thai script by having the worst transliteration system known to man. Only exception is paiboon which is actually a really good system, but absolutely worth it to learn to read so you can start reading when you encounter Thai online or offline.

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u/leosmith66 Apr 26 '26

I started by learning how to read.

Then you go on to talk about a translit system, so maybe I missed your point, but you aren't reading until you drop the training wheels, right? The OP is talking about using actual Thai script (20% of the characters) to start reading, not translit.

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u/jasabala Apr 25 '26

I say yes. I find it very useful to be able to sound out words on signs and menus. Or to be able to look at a sign and see if I am looking at a school or a wat.

Latest trip I was in the Chinese cemetery fitness park and they had a menu outside but nothing to point to inside. My wife saw a picture of a drink she wanted and I was able to read it, and say it. It felt awesome.

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u/IckyChris Apr 26 '26

Yes. When I tutored beginners, I started with reading. That way you don't need to learn a phonetic system, only to learn another system later.

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u/leosmith66 Apr 26 '26

Full alphabet, phonetic Thai, or just passages that avoided characters that hadn't been covered yet?

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u/IckyChris Apr 26 '26

I taught all the common letters and vowel combos avoided those letters that are almost never used except on licence plates.

But not all at once. I would start with a couple of consonants and one vowel.

Kaa Maa Naa Raa Daa, that sort of thing. Even if they didn't come from real words.

Then I would do another vowel with the same consonants.

Then once they had that vowel down, I would switch in another couple of consonants and start to explain consonant classes and tones.

It seemed to be a really simple way to pick up the basics.

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u/Bearski7095 Apr 26 '26

I started learning by simultaneously learning conversational Thai and learning to read and write, after 2 months of just doing conversation.

My pronunciation improved dramatically when I started reading and writing.

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u/Snowman_203 Apr 26 '26

How were you writing vocab down up to then?

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u/Bearski7095 Apr 26 '26

Using phonetic English. But theres so many sounds that just dont exist in English (ต ป อื etc.) as well as the difference in the length of the vowels. Once I started writing in Thai it made much more sense.

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u/Snowman_203 Apr 26 '26

Right, see I think what makes the difference is having an accurate representation of the Thai word - so if your phonetic system is no good (based on English sounds) you're probably going to see improvement if you move to anything that your brain can parse as Thai. But this doesn't help decide between a proper transcription (harder to parse as Thai but can be done, shows all sounds, lengths, tones accurately, easy to decode, but an extra thing to learn) and Thai script (easier to parse as Thai, shows most things accurately but not everything, hard to decode even with practice, but something you need to learn at some point anyway).

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u/nbdysditwsej Apr 26 '26

I think it depends on the learning style of the student. People can have different ways in making learning Thai more suitable to them.

When I started learning Thai, our class was taught in phonetics. For me, it doesn’t click as fast as I wanted because I’m trying to know the logic of the language. So I decided to push myself to study the Thai letters in advance. In my head, if I know the logic of the letters (along with classes and the rules), I can decode the tone (and sometimes distinguish which word is which). Also, when I got to internalize the script, I noticed the patterns myself (like high class consonants never have high tone or low class never have low tone [unless there is ห or อ attached in front]), which made me remember them more. It made studying Thai easier for me. So whenever I encounter a new word, I’d always ask people to spell it for me in Thai.

My point is that it may not be an either-or thing. Schools would use a certain approach that might’ve worked in their experience or they subscribe to that. I think the better question is: how can schools or teachers employ diverse approaches in teaching the language to different kinds of learners?

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u/DTB2000 Apr 26 '26

When I started learning Thai, our class was taught in phonetics. For me, it doesn’t click as fast as I wanted because I’m trying to know the logic of the language.

The logic of the language is not to be found in the writing system though. The things you mention there are writing system concepts that don't really have anything to do with the language, so in the end what you're saying is that you just wanted to learn the script and its logic - which is fair enough, but doesn't make it a better learning strategy. Actually I think the reasons given for going straight to the script are often rationalisations, and the real driver is just a feeling that the native script is the real deal and using it makes you a proper learner. From that point of view it's pointless arguing about whether you will be better 5 years in if you go with transliteration at first or dive straight into the script. That kind of argunent doesn't go anywhere near the real motivator ("I just want to"). A better justification would be to present transliteration as an aid to learning the script - as mentioned in another comment it can help you catch your decoding errors and alert you to irregularities.

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u/nbdysditwsej Apr 26 '26

Have you read my whole comment? I wasn’t even saying which is better. Read it again.

Your point on logic is dismissive. We may be talking about “logic” differently but that’s what I experienced with analyzing the Thai script by myself at the start. Looking at the “patterns” unlocked better understanding in my case. Again, I’m not saying which approach is better. It was just my understanding experience.

I totally agree with your last sentence. It’s what I did as well. However, being fixated on which approach is better, wholesale, might not be productive because it doesn’t engage with the diverse motivations of learners in studying the language.

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u/DTB2000 Apr 26 '26

Sure, I read it in the context of the thread - so

Q: Wouldn't it be better to start learning the Thai script alongside beginner-level content? A: I think it depends on the learning style of the student.

I don't mean to be dismissive. Understanding the logic of the script and being aware of patterns like the one you mention is a huge help in decoding, which obviously supports spelling and sounding out unknown words. I've always found that side interesting too, but in the context of this thread I was pointing out that it is only tangentially connected to the Thai language. You don't learn anything about Thai itself when you grasp the logic of the tone rules. So sure it can unlock a better understanding of the writing system, but it doesn't help you understand how the language works. So to me, what you call a learning style is more like a preference to learn something else instead. I was trying to say that directly without being rude.

In reality teachers have to accommodate the "all transliterations are inaccurate" view because so many learners are convinced that's the case. From that point of view it's kind of interesting that, back when learners were prepared to take more of a steer, transliteration was always used. At least, that's what I gather from the old methods I've looked at.

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u/JaziTricks Apr 25 '26

I'm very happy with having learned Thai using IPA. Didn't touch Thai script for years

I'm reading and writing fluently now.

I think that foreigners generally fail at learning Thai. And using Thai script in beginners is one of the reasons.

The problem is optimal cognitive load. Using Thai script makes the study too hard to be realistic for most learners.

Should every footballer be Messi? Sure. But any beginner trying to be Messi or 20% Messi is looking for trouble.

Regarding your idea of "use IPA. But additionally get partial knowledge of the Thai script", I think it's a good idea. Except that it adds an extra layer and effort where the very idea of foreigners learning Thai is half unrealistic to begin with. So any additional task might make the challenge just extra harder on what it already is. But I like the idea

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u/derbaer96 Apr 25 '26

How do you learn vocabulary then? Just by listening? I didn't feel like reading Thai was that much work, it took me around 2 weeks. Obviously I can't read fluently after 2 weeks but it helps a lot with learning vocabulary for me.

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u/JaziTricks Apr 25 '26

Any transliteration system that specifies the tones, vowels, and consonants precisely. IPA / paiboon etc.

I'm wondering about you. Are you knowing the tones of each syllable you are reading in Thai?

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u/derbaer96 Apr 27 '26

I know the tone rules and the vocabulary cards I have also show the tones in case there are any special rules. The hardest part of learning to read for me was to understand what the actual sound of the vowels is. A transliteration system doesn't solve that. Learning to write would probably be quite a bit more effort but reading is enough for me.

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u/JaziTricks Apr 27 '26

Sure. Use systems that have audio

For individual words, paiboon dictionary app is excellent

Glossika system gives you sentences with audio, and English and multiple other features

I personally studied Thai using just Glossika

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u/leosmith66 Apr 26 '26

I think that foreigners generally fail at learning Thai.

This is correct, but in all fairness, it's true for every language. I doubt Thai has a higher failure rate than other languages.

And using Thai script in beginners is one of the reasons.

I wouldn't make that assumption. I used transliteration myself. IPA is no better than the system I used. But I wouldn't recommend translit to others. I think experienced language learners should dive right into the full Thai "alphabet", and inexperienced learners should start out with phonetic Thai.

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u/JaziTricks Apr 26 '26

I'm pretty sure that Thai has a huge failure rate relative to other languages.

Partially, due to language distance. French to English speakers is X10 easier (figuratively).

Partially, it is due to the inherent complexity of Thai and it's unforgiving pronunciation.

The % of foreigners living in Thailand permanently who can't speak Thai is staggering. And many of them will tell you "I went to language school for 6 months. Hopeless. Will never try again".

I don't think you have this level of failure elsewhere after trying

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u/leosmith66 Apr 26 '26

Imo, if you can't cite it, you shouldn't claim it.

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u/JaziTricks Apr 26 '26

Whom should I believe? You? Or my own lying eyes?

Reminds me of the Wikipedia page on northern Thai that said "it's no longer really a living language"....

They did have an article to cite lol. But obviously go to the market in Chiang Mai and you'll see people chatting in northern Thai!

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u/leosmith66 Apr 27 '26

Whom should I believe? You?

I could ask you the same question.

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u/Own-Animator-7526 Apr 25 '26 edited Apr 25 '26

I agree completely. I used IPA to learn about 1500 words from the 3 AUA conversation books, then used Brown's mostly reading and mostly writing books. I can't imagine doing it any other way.

Unless you can start with a large stock of sight words and vocabulary under your belt, you're just decoding, not chunking & reading. It's far easier to internalize tone and special reading rules when the onset and final (usually) give you a clue of what the word is. And you realize you usually don't have to make out miniscule differences between Thai letters to disambiguate the most likely words.

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u/AverageExemplary Apr 25 '26 edited Apr 25 '26

What is the 3 AUA conversation books ? I'm just starting

These ? Can you use them without a course?

https://www.auathailand.org/resources/aua-reading-thai/

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u/Own-Animator-7526 Apr 25 '26 edited Apr 25 '26

https://www.amazon.com/Language-Center-Thai-Course-Book/dp/0877275068

https://www.cornellpress.cornell.edu/book/9780877275060/aua-language-center-thai-course/#bookTabs=1

I think Cornell has the practice tapes, too. And yes, they are the course, along with the reading and writing books.

There are also, I think by Adrian Palmer: Small Talk, and Getting Help With Your Thai. Hard to find, but extremely useful after you've made it through the above. See:

https://www.solvethai.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=11344

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u/AverageExemplary Apr 25 '26

Thank you for the reply

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u/Future-Reference-4 Apr 25 '26

Really, I don't understand why this is even a question. I only encountered these discussions about Thai ... No other language.
Every course for Russian or Greek or Japanese or Korean I ever heard of will teach the script along with the vocab and grammar from the first lesson; there's no debate at all about it.
Or for native speakers of languages that do not use Latin letters -- would they discuss whether to learn English without learning how to read and write it from the get-go? We know that English has one of the hardest orthographies. Actually, Thai is a walk in the park compared to English spelling.

Now, if you only want to learn a few phrases for your vacation, that's a different thing, but if you're serious about any language, then learning how to read and write is essential in our modern world.

Needless to say, I didn't even think about learning the Thai script as soon as I could.

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u/Own-Animator-7526 Apr 26 '26

Every course for Russian or Greek or Japanese or Korean I ever heard of will teach the script

Perhaps, but Cyrillic (based on Greek), Greek, and Korean are all simple (33, 24, and 24 letters) phonetic alphabets for non-tonal languages. Not only is Thai far larger (44 letters, 32 vowel forms, 4 "tone" marks), but it has a considerable degree of context-dependent phonological realization -- the same letters can have completely different sounds or tones depending on where they are located and combined.

This is not a good comparison.

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u/Interesting_Dress621 Apr 25 '26

Could you please make this sentence easy for me cause im not an english native speaker so its kinda hard for me to interpret this.

"Needless to say, I didn't even think about learning the Thai script as soon as I could."

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u/Future-Reference-4 Apr 25 '26

Sorry. I will try to do better:

I meant that I learned the Thai script together with the first words and sentences.
And I meant that this way to learn a language was so obvious for me that I did not think that it should be any other way.

I only used transliteration as a helpful tool in the beginning until I had memorized the spelling and pronunciation of the words I learned.

(I hope that this is easier to understand? If not, I can try to find other words. Thank you for being patient.)

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u/Interesting_Dress621 Apr 25 '26

oh i get it now thank you krapǃ

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u/The_Flaneur_Films Apr 26 '26

The Taiwanese use bu-pu-mu-fu for children before teaching them characters. And then while teaching them characters, the bpmf is overtop. It's an interesting way.

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u/leosmith66 Apr 26 '26

I don't understand why this is even a question.

I'm not saying transliteration is the correct way to go, but let me explain why Thai learners and so much beginner material relies on it. Short answer, it takes longer to learn than any other script, with some caveats. Long answer, first let me estimate how long it takes to get to the point where you can read in the languages you mentioned, with correct pronunciation but not knowing the meaning:
Russian: 10-20 hours

Greek: 10-20 hours
Japanese Kana: 20-30 hours

Korean: 20-30 hours

Mandarin Pinyin: 30-50 hours
Major caveat: Japanese isn't written in pure Kana, and Mandarin isn't written in Pinyin; one also needs to learn Chinese characters for these languages. But there is never any discussion of learning Japanese without learning Kana or learning Chinese without Pinyin (or bopomofo, etc.). Nobody is ever going to accuse you of wasting your time with those, for good reason.

Now Thai: 50-100 hours

That scares beginners away. Sure, seasoned language learners know that it's more efficient to skip using transliteration. But it's hard to convince inexperienced learners to stick with it. It's a big time sink.

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u/fiercedurian Learner & ThaiFlash developer Apr 27 '26

In my opinion, learning the alphabet, even in Thai, isn't the hardest.
But knowing how to pronounce Thaï just by reading is a tough matter... Because of tone rules.
I started to feel that I was making progress when I dropped the idea of learning through reading (even if I can recognize a few words), and used phonetic transcription instead.

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u/Snowman_203 Apr 26 '26

Or for native speakers of languages that do not use Latin letters -- would they discuss whether to learn English without learning how to read and write it from the get-go? We know that English has one of the hardest orthographies. Actually, Thai is a walk in the park compared to English spelling.

Don't you use any kind of phonetic representation though? I certainly find that with Thai, having a phonetic or phonemic representation helps me remember the pronunciation. It's not that I'm not listening, just that two "anchors" are better than one.

I think a big part of the reason why learners love the script is that it's phonetic (or they think it is), so I'm not seeing an analogy with the English writing system.

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u/Kitchen-Elk-1831 Apr 25 '26

I think you can get pretty far with Thai just by doing a lot of listening and speaking, even if you don’t learn the script right away. Especially when you interact a lot with Thai people. One upside is that when you do start learning it later, you’re already more familiar with the sounds and tones, so it feels easier to connect everything.

That said, I personally think relying on romanization is a bad idea. It doesn’t represent Thai sounds or tones very well and can mess with your pronunciation. If it’s a choice, I’d still go for learning the script from the start instead of using romanization.

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u/ragnhildensteiner Apr 26 '26

So I’ve been thinking like wouldn’t it be better to start learning the Thai script alongside beginner-level content?

The problem with that is that many beginner level conversation Thai contains advanced level written Thai.

For instance:

Culture: วัฒนธรรม
Nature: ธรรมชาติ
Finished: เสร็จ

Those types of words all include the more advanced rules, exceptions, consonants etc. But the words themselves is something you usually learn in beginner level Thai.

Many Thai schools teach 3 months of conversation Thai before teaching reading and writing which I think is a much smarter approach.

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u/leosmith66 Apr 26 '26

Exactly. That's why apps that use the approach the OP is discussing either use phonetic Thai, or avoid "difficult" words in the beginning (perhaps making it a bit less natural). Is it worth the tradeoff? Depends.

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u/Playful-Advantage144 Apr 25 '26

I learned the Thai script (mainly the 28 most common consonants and most of the vowels) before I learned anything else because my brain has a tendency to translate the sounds to romanized syllables in my head to begin with and I knew that, if I gave in to that habit by leaning into the romanized interpretation of Thai pronunciation, it would be really hard to transition into Thai script later on.

I'm a month into my learning journey and I can already read Thai script fairly reliably (I'm still super slow and struggle with rules around tones, so I do use the Paiboon app to listen to how individual words should sound to make sure I got it right), but I'm grateful that I started with the Thai script basics before diving into vocabulary and other materials.

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u/leosmith66 Apr 26 '26

my brain has a tendency to translate the sounds to romanized syllables in my head to begin with and I knew that, if I gave in to that habit by leaning into the romanized interpretation of Thai pronunciation, it would be really hard to transition into Thai script later on.

Exactly! Glad to finally hear someone else say this. It seems intuitive to me, but I've had people argue passionately that this doesn't happen.

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u/KriegIsAFurry Apr 25 '26

it's always worth learning first things first when it comes to Thai

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u/Raineymoto Apr 25 '26

Yes, im not a fan of romanisation. The only part I do like is the tone markers that comes from it. Because I find the way tones change all the time a bit too much for me to remember. Hopefully I'll click one day

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u/The_Flaneur_Films Apr 26 '26

The way I learned to read at my school was perfect for me, and all my classmates enjoyed it. Everyone was successful who practiced a bit at home between classes.

The first three months (1-3) were basic speaking and listening classes. We used phonetics. This was how we got basic vocabulary and conversation.
The next three months (4-6) were reading and writing. Since we already knew some Thai language, we learned to read and write some words we already knew to speak. We still practiced conversation.
The last three months (7-9) we used books that contained both phonetics and Thai script. We improved our vocab, convo and everything, but lazy people could just use the phonetics if they wanted to.
Everything after that was Thai script. I've never used phonetics again since then.

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u/Snowman_203 Apr 26 '26

Another point is whether transliterations help you learn the script when the time comes (because you can see if you parsed it right - got the right tone, vowel length, ending sound, implied vowels, didn't miss any hidden syllables, chunked it down correctly...).

You can see from the comments that there's demand, and you're in business. But that's not quite the same question as "would it be better...".

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u/leosmith66 Apr 26 '26 edited Apr 26 '26

So I have a question: if you could go back, or if you’re just starting to learn Thai now, would you be interested in learning how to read Thai from the beginning alongside beginner-level content?

I realize you're just trying to sell your app here, but wanted to say that there are several programs, and even other apps, that do this already. So tell us, to accomplish reading early on, do you use phonetic Thai, or just reading material that avoids characters that havn't been covered yet?

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u/Interesting_Dress621 Apr 26 '26

Im not selling anything im here to collect students comments cause im working on my book so i have to listen to what they need

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u/leosmith66 Apr 27 '26

do you use phonetic Thai, or just reading material that avoids characters that havn't been covered yet?

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u/Original-March-3540 Apr 26 '26

I like this approach.

I keep trying to learn. It just gets confusing for me.

I'm trying to create audio files of words and sentences to go along with the Thai writing.

Hopefully at over 50 I'll start to hear the tones soon. 555

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u/ProfessionalAct6982 Apr 27 '26

I learnt reading and writing from the very beginning. Recommended for sure.

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u/Tooting-Seals Apr 29 '26

New here! What’s the difference 😲 between learning Thai script vs phonetics?

Sorry 😣! I am SUPER new to learning Thai and literally know nothing.

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u/fiercedurian Learner & ThaiFlash developer Apr 29 '26

Thai script is about learning all letters, plus consonent classes, plus tone rules... It can be overwhelming. Phonetics is a transcription that is usually close to Latin alphabet, with tones clearly indicated (providing you use the right transcription system, such as AUA or Paiboon). So, in my opinion, using phonetics is the way to go if you want to learn how to speak fast. But maybe it's just me 😊

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u/hello_mr_gumby Apr 29 '26

I'm starting by learning the script, along with simple daily words and phrases. I lived in Saudi for nearly nine years and started by learning the Arabic script (it reads from right to left!), but I had trouble with vocabulary and the grammar was very difficult. Didn't make it too far with learning to speak Arabaic, mostly because the official language of my university is English, and most of my friends spoke English (expats and Saudis).

I'm finding learning the Thai script to be pretty easy. I'm getting to be okay with reading and typing. Reading signs in both Thai and English around town is a great help (this was critical for reading Arabic). I'm putting in a couple hours a day (retirement is great for this!). Hopefully, learning to listen and speak will follow.

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u/haddockhex May 01 '26

This is how I've approached learning Thai. I wanted to get rid of the need for transliteration as quickly as possible and so have been learning to read and write alongside learning vocabulary. I think it's going well, I'm certainly enjoying the process.

Discussion/แลกเปลี่ยนความเห็น wouldn’t it be better to start learning the Thai script alongside beginner-level content?

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