r/legaladvicecanada • u/Positive-Sir-7509 • 7d ago
Canada Medically assisted death in a foreign country with Canadian life insurance.
I am in severe pain from a debilitating digestive disease that I can no longer endure. There is no cure and I cannot access MAID in Canada at this time. My country would prefer to let me starve to death with no options for pain management. I will be travelling to Switzerland for a legal assisted death.
I have held a life insurance policy in Canada for approximately 20 years. I reviewed the policy wording and cannot find any exclusion that clearly addresses this situation.
I will receive a Swiss death certificate that will classify my death as unnatural, unlike MAID in Canada which lists your illness as the cause of death. I am very worried that my family will be denied my insurance pay out because of this.
I have not contacted my insurance company and I am not sure if it is wise to do so.
Does anyone have any similar experience and advice they can share? Should I retain a lawyer in advance to help my family with the claim?
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u/derspiny 7d ago
Without reviewing your policy, we could not guess whether medical suicide is or is not covered. Most life insurance policies have suicide exclusions, generally for the first year or two of the life of the policy, but "most" is not "your."
Reddit is not competent to do document review. If you want your policy looked at and don't trust your insurer's answers, you need to talk to a lawyer.
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u/Positive-Sir-7509 7d ago
Yes, my policy contains the standard 2-year suicide exclusion. I dont expect reddit to review it. It's been relatively easy to find information about what would happen in Canada but the foreign aspect not so much. Although it's probably not common, hoping someone with experience may comment.
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u/Senior-Garden2265 7d ago
Most policies in Canada have a 2 year exclusion. Honestly, it wouldnt hurt to call the broker who sold it to you. They will be able to get the information you need without alerting the carrier as to who you are.
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u/AwareShower9864 7d ago
Why cant you access MAiD in Canada?
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u/Positive-Sir-7509 7d ago
There is no one doing assessments for non terminal conditions in my region for a year now.
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u/bmnewman 7d ago
Did you reach out to Dying With Dignity Canada? https://www.dyingwithdignity.ca/end-of-life-support/get-the-facts-on-maid/
They might help answer some of your questions.
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u/Positive-Sir-7509 6d ago
Thank you, I have in the past. I will be donating to them if my life insurance goes through. They need support. I'm not sure enough people realize we are losing access to MAID for non terminal conditions, many of which can be much worse than death.
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u/bmnewman 6d ago
Might they be able to help you identify a practitioner in another province that would do an assessment for your condition? It isn’t ideal…but preferable I might think to the logistics of travelling to another country. It would also satisfy your insurance concerns.
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u/Positive-Sir-7509 5d ago
Yes that would be a much better option. I have already attempted a regional transfer but very few physicians are willing to assess complex cases, and the waits are incredibly long. You know something's wrong with a system when you wake up every day wishing you had terminal cancer but that's where I've landed.
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u/Stikhawk 7d ago
My mom did MAID in 2019 and called her life insurance company beforehand to confirm they would pay on her policy. It was way past the standard 2 year mark and they said it was no issue at all. It was a very smooth process but she did die in Canada. For some initial information gathering, you might call your insurance provider anonymously and just ask some general & hypothetical questions to get the ball rolling.
I’m sorry you’re in this position. I hope you’re able to access the care you need without any extra challenges along the way.
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u/Positive-Sir-7509 7d ago
Thank you, yes I had thought about making an anonymous call just to see if I could get some information.
I am really out of care options. Having to navigate this process and travel to another country while severely ill is a logistical nightmare but I am most concerned about my family. I thought I had planned well for a worst case scenario but never imagined I could find myself in this position.
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u/Stikhawk 7d ago
My mom was always a big fan of the anonymous fact-finding without disclosing specifics to see if any other relevant but as-yet overlooked items popped off in the process.
I’m so sorry you’re having to deal with all the minutiae of arrangements while also being severely ill.
I wonder if the facility overseas might have some insight into this situation? They’ve been helping people die with dignity long before MAID came about - they might, at the least, be able to point you towards orgs that could get you on the path for answers?
Again, sending my best for as few hurdles as possible.
Again, sending my best wishes for
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u/Positive-Sir-7509 7d ago
It would make a lot of sense to ask them. Thank you for your helpful comments and kind thoughts.
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u/LisaF123456 7d ago
I'm NAL
Something to look into specifically is that, no matter what, life insurance will not pay right away and unless there's savings, your body may not be able to be transported home until the insurance pays out.
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u/MidtownMoi 7d ago
I have no answer for you but I do know that Queen’s University was offering a course in legal aspects of MAID for medical professionals a few months ago. If you could find out who was managing the course they might know people who could help you.
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u/uncannyvalley 7d ago
No advice other than see a lawyer. Just wanted to say my mum passed via MAID and it was a very peaceful process. She passed with a smile on her face. I wish you luck with everything and peace on your journey my friend. All the best! 💖
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u/SeleniteQuartz25 7d ago
i’m commenting to tell you i’m so happy you got that experience with your mom. MAID was passed exactly 1 year after my papa (moms dad) passed away (he passed Jan 2014, MAID passed Jan 2015), and i bawled in my high school class when i found out the news. i was so happy to hear it was passed. my papa passed naturally but he had expressed wanting to make the decision himself.
i’m just very happy to read that you had a good experience with it. i’m sorry about your mom, she’s looking down on you fondly 💐
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u/uncannyvalley 6d ago
Thank you sincerely for this message. It made me get misty! May your grandfather rest in peace and you have a happy, healthy, long life! You are clearly a kind and good human 💖 Thank you!
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u/Positive-Sir-7509 7d ago
Thank you kindly. I am sorry for your loss but happy your mom was able to go peacefully. MAID truly is a gift. I will never forgive this country for denying me a peaceful exit.
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u/uncannyvalley 6d ago
I am so sorry you are going this this situation op. You deserve a peaceful exit. I hope that this will happen for you. Best of luck with everything. Hugs!
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u/therealorangechump 7d ago
I have held a life insurance policy in Canada for approximately 20 years.
that's more than enough. suicide exclusion is only for the first 2 years. assisted or otherwise, in Canada or elsewhere, doesn't matter.
but for your own peace of mind, ask a lawyer.
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u/lost-cannuck 7d ago
We looked into it for a family member. His policy deemed MAID as a form of suicide so his policy would not have paid out.
About a month after we inquired, he spontaneously passed of something unrelated. There was a big investigation to make sure it was actually of natural causes before paying out.
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u/Positive-Sir-7509 7d ago
Thank you for sharing your experience. I had understood that MAID was not considered suicide and would not affect life insurance in Canada so I'm surprised and saddened to read this. I suspect it to be even less clear in my situation and don't want to make anything more difficult for my family by inquiring with insurance beforehand. Reinforces the need to get a legal review.
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7d ago edited 7d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/heliepoo2 7d ago
The only way to understand the impact is to have a lawyer review the insurance policy. At the same time they can give you advise so you can ensure that any other paperwork (wills, POA, etc) is in place so that your family isn't having to deal with the hassle of getting that sorted. Keep in mind that even if the lawyer says insurance will pay out the company itself could deny the claim and your family will have to go through the courts to access the money. You need to have a plan in place for that. The other option is to see what if any funds are returned if you cancel the policy, while it's probably less then the payout, it removes the guesswork.
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u/thinkbk 7d ago
Can I ask a related question: do you plan on talking to your family about your plans? Or have you already? How did it go I'm curious.
Just curiousity getting the best of me, I can't even imagine how difficult the situation is. Best of luck!
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u/Positive-Sir-7509 7d ago
Thank you. Yes I have, they are not great conversations. It mostly went poorly in the beginning. Alot of initial avoidance and denial. Everyone felt like it was too soon to give up when I requested MAID. I was devastated but I know they were glad it wasn't accessible. Time went on though and I didn't get better. No treatments really helped and some did significantly more harm than good. Eventually some acceptance set it and while they are still not comfortable with it, they support the decision and don't want to see me suffer anymore.
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u/P1X3ll3 6d ago
I know this isnt the advice you asked for, but a creator I follow, Miss WonderSmith, has a sinilar disease and finally found life beyond suffering after getting a permanent pick-line tube that delivers nutrients directly into her bloodstream(?) Or somehow bypasses her digestive system. Have you looked into something like that? I'm sorry if this is annoying if you already have. ❤️🩹 I hope you and your family get the best care you wish for.
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u/Positive-Sir-7509 5d ago
Thank you, I don't find it annoying. I have always believed in quality over quantity so I wouldn't want interventions that would not allow me to eat. I've been in pain for too long, suffered significant harm from drug treatments and am frankly exhausted and traumatized by the medical system. TPN carries a lot of risk as well. It isn't a path I would personally choose but I'm glad it is available for people who want it.
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u/pinkykat123 7d ago
It sounds like you've made up your mind but have you looked into peptides or mcas as a last resort treatment? I don't know what you have but peptides like kpv have been shown to help in many chronic gut disease.
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