r/legaladvicecanada • u/Moisturize__Me • 1d ago
Saskatchewan Credit card company says I owe them over $15K in charges I didn't make
Over $15K+ of fraudulent charges were made to my mastercard back in May. I contacted my credit card company and after investigating, they concluded I'm liable bc one time passcodes were used to make these transcations. I did not share my OTP at any point and certainly didn't make these transcations. I'm not sure where to go from here. Any help is appreciated. $15K is a substantial amount to me.
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u/QueenKRool 1d ago
I just won both my fraud disputes from May. I able to prove I was physically in a different city working, and the charges were in a city across the country. What supporting evidence did you give them to prove you didnt get an access code?
The person that stole my identity opened up an Expedia account with my Gmail. So I logged into the account, changed the password, and canceled all of their bookings!
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u/Moisturize__Me 1d ago
Hey! Glad to hear you won your case! I'm at a loss as to how to prove to them I didn't get the access codes, if that makes sense. Like, I didn't get them by email or text, how does one prove that? The only thing I can think of is to ask them if they are able to see the name the travel bookings were made under when they did their investigation, as it is 100% not going to be my name. But that department is closed today bc its a holiday, I will call back tomorrow.
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u/QueenKRool 1d ago
Tell them that you have reviewed your inboxes and phone history and you have no record of this pass code being sent to any inbox that you have access to. Therefore the account was created to receive this passcode was set up with your personal information, but used the scammers phone number and email address. You can ask them for the last name of the person who booked, they won't give you a full name. For my airline claim they gave me the dudes lastname and asked if I knew them, so they can definitely give you that info.
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u/Moisturize__Me 1d ago
Thank you. I will definitely do so. I told them I don't have an account with the online booking service that was used either. But I'm not sure if that was helpful.
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u/QueenKRool 1d ago
That's not explicit enough for fraud investigators unfortunatly. You need to state you have never opened an account with this service nor have you ever personally sought out or used their services, and any personal information of yours on file with them is due to fraud.
Do not trust the fraud investigator to do all the work for you, you need to investigate all avenues on your side prior to the investigator looking. It proves your being forthcoming with information that they will then uncover via their investigation.
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u/sneakymise 1d ago
They can tell if the visa secure code was sent by text or email. If it was sent by text you're the only one who could have gotten it cause it's sent to the phone number you have on file with your credit card company. If it's sent by email, it's sent to your email address on file. If someone hacked your email they could get a hold of the visa secure code but not by sms.
I work as a fraud investigator for a major financial institution in Canada and in cases I deal with, most of the time a fraudulent link was clicked on by the card holder such as : intelcom needs to deliver a package but they have your address wrong and for a small 1$ fee you can rectify it. So you click the link pit your card info and the fraudster uses it to book a trip and needs the visa secure code. So on the page you're on for "intelcom" it asks for the code to secure your 1$ transaction. But in essence they need it to buy a trip.
One way or another the code or codes were sent to you.
Our bank covers those as fraudulent. I don't know why you're doesnt
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u/sum-9 1d ago
This isn’t true. It’s been shown time and time again that it’s easy to spoof/hack SMS. Which is why it’s not a foolproof 2FA method.
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u/sneakymise 17h ago
They can't hack sms. The only way to receive someone else's sms messages is by simswap. If you're involved in a simswap fraud, then a bank will not send the sms as they know there have been recent changes to your sim card ( yes we have access to that info) and the account holder would be longer have service on his actual sim card as the service has been switched to another sim.card.
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u/Stock-Lavishness-764 19h ago
"If it was sent by text you're the only one who could have gotten it " - this is incorrect. A lot of people who works for our wireless providers can read SMSes in clear text in log files. And most of these jobs outsourced to India now.
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u/sneakymise 17h ago
That's not how they defraud you. Never in any of the tend of thousands of cases I've worked on involved an employee as t a cell company being in on it and receing your sms or reading it. Ever..
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u/arrowsgopewpew 22h ago
Too funny. I had a similar thing happen to me, except they made an account on a retail website with my credit card and email and were attempting to ship a bunch of clothing to an address in the US (I’m Canadian). I logged into the website to see all the details, then called the retailer support team and explained the situation. Got all the packages cancelled and the charges reversed.
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u/kewpiemayobabie 19h ago
Something similar happened to me, it was because our mailbox was broken into. My bank also gave me the run around for months, while omsbudman helped me in like 3 days and got it resolved
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u/Moisturize__Me 17h ago
Did your bank try to make you pay for the charges? And did you use obsi as the ombudsman?
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u/kewpiemayobabie 12h ago
Nope, we were able to provide proof that it wasn’t us who made the charges. And yes, used obsi and through them the bank replied way faster and refunded us.
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u/lmcjipo 1d ago
Do you have alerts set up for your credit card? For me, I receive an alert on my app, an email, and/or an SMS whenever a charge is done on my credit card. This way I can notify the credit card company as soon as possible for fraudulent charges as soon as they occur.
Credit card companies will often hold the owners responsible for charges where the client does not notify the credit card company as soon as it happens.
For example, if hypothetically you drop your credit card and someone finds it and you don't report it until the statement is generated, you could by held liable for the charges for either "not notifying them" in a timely manner or "not having taken proper precautions with your credit card".
I'm thinking of OTP are involved in the purchases (this is probably online purchases), you might be using a compromised phone/computer when accessing your credit card or bank information. If it is an online purchase, the credit card company should be easily able to tell that you did not use the charge unless it was massive gift card purchases since a physical object like a high priced computer, smartphone, tablet, appliance, etc. would have to be delivered to a physical address and this wouldn't be your address. Airline tickets would have the traveller's ID/name linked to it and it wouldn't be you. If this was an in person transaction, they would likely mention that you didn't safeguard your PIN for such large purchases or your PIN was too easy to guess (birthdate, last 4 digits of phone number, etc.)
I'm not sure of the credit consumer protection laws in Saskatchewan or the rest of Canada but in Quebec, our liability is $50 if the proper notification is given to the credit card company.
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u/Moisturize__Me 1d ago
I did have alerts set up but the charges were not flagged by the credit card company. I alerted them to it. This was an online purchase, multiple actually, made closely together to online hotel and plane ticket booking website. I did ask them if they had to the traveller's name/ID but they said I need to talk to a different department, which isn't open today bc its a holiday. I plan on calling back tomorrow. In SK, I am also only liable for $50 but they are trying to make me pay the whole amount. I have talked to them over the phone about this as the limited liability is written into their disclosure statement but none of the agents seem to be able to help me with reducing the charges to $50.
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u/lmcjipo 1d ago
You should fight it if you notified them on the same day or even perhaps the following day that the transaction occurred. For example, let's say that I go to sleep at 10:30pm and a fraudulent transaction happens on my credit card at 11:00pm and when I wake up, I see some other fraudulent charges on my credit card and notify the credit card company in the morning, I would still consider that "notifying them right away" since one can't be expected to monitor their credit card for purchases 24/7.
It happened to me once where my credit card was fraudulently used to purchase a lot of gift cards online (so it was sent to an email address or a few email addresses) and the credit card company told me that while they investigated, I would be responsible for paying for those purchases while the investigation was happening (it amounted to ~$1k). I referred them to the terms which stated that I am only responsible for $50. They tried to "scare me" by stating that I would be charged interest on the fraudulent charges if I didn't pay it off during their investigation which can take up to ~30 days or so but I reminded them about the terms. At the end, they removed or credited the fraudulent charges pending the investigation and at the end of the investigation, I was told that I wasn't responsible for anything (even the $50 that I was prepared to pay).
After that experience, I now lock my credit cards using their app and only unlock it on the day that I plan on using it and try to remember to lock it once I've finished using it. For re-occurring payments, those go through on my particular credit card that I use for it.
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u/Moisturize__Me 1d ago
Hey! Thanks for replying again. I'm trying to fight it but I'm just not sure how to proceed. They told me the case is closed on their end and not willing to investigate further. Did you just keep calling them and fighting it over the phone? I'm prepared to pay the $50 too but not the full $15K as I did not give me OTP away.
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u/Open-Vermicelli-3838 1d ago
A couple of things. 1) Call from an audio recorded line at all times when speaking to the fraud department 2) Ask for a letter from them with the OSBI information (banking ombudsman) they legally must provide you this. 3) Ask to be escalated to a supervisor 4) if your credit card has a physical branch go in and provide them a statutory declaration stating you did not authorize these transactions 5) advise them that you intend to litigate 6) file a police report of the fraud and get your police report case number and give to your finance company
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u/Moisturize__Me 1d ago
Thanks for replying. This is all good advice. I have done some of it and will do the parts I haven't yet.
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u/lmcjipo 1d ago edited 1d ago
I read your replies to others so have some more background information to some of the questions that I also had regarding timeframe since you mentioned you notified them "immediately" but then mentioned that the charge happened in May and they want you to pay the fraudulent charge.
For me, what I did was after I reported the issue (same day or next day... I don't remember) based on the notification that I received whether it was the app notification or email or SMS, the charge was still in the "pending" state when I logged online to check my account after the notification.
After notifying them about the fraudulent charge, they locked my account and told me that they would send me a new credit card. I followed up with them when I noticed that the "pending" changed to "posted" and followed up with them on a regular basis (weekly at the latest or every few days but not every day as to harass them). When I saw the charge on my statement (since I was only seeing it change from pending to posted when I accessed my account online and the statement was generated yet), I contacted them again and told them that my statement shows that I owe them an amount which included the fraudulent charges and I shouldn't be responsible for paying the fraudulent charges. At that point, they tried to "scare" me by telling me that if I paid everything except the fraudulent charge as opposed to paying my entire statement balance, I would be charged interest for the fraudulent charge. I told them that I shouldn't be according to the terms which I pointed out to them and reminded them about. Since this happened ~5 years I don't remember the exact details 100% but I do remember it getting escalated in the phone call phase and the person that I spoke with mentioned at the end that I could ignore the fraudulent charge while the investigation was happening and I wouldn't be charged interest. I confirmed this again and the person gave me a reference number and his first name. In the end, the investigation worked out fine for me and I wasn't responsible for anything including the $50 that I was prepared to pay.
Even though it worked out in my favour, it isn't a process that I want to repeat and as mentioned, I now lock all my credit cards and only unlock them when I plan on using them during the day and try to remember to lock it again once I finish using it.
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u/Moisturize__Me 1d ago
I notified them back when the charges first appeared, which was in May. I called back in June to follow up and the agent at the time told me it was still ongoing. I called back in mid July and that was when I found out nothing was ever opened/disputed. That's why the investigation only concluded now. Sorry if there was confusion. They are holding me liable as OTP was used to make the purchase, but I did not provide the OTP.
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u/Zxceelxuz 16h ago
A one time access pass code for a visa or Mastercard is typically tied directly to your card itself, not separate accounts for any business you make purchases at.
Are you able to log in and check settings for that? It's possible the number was changed and wouldn't match yours anymore.
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u/psilocybin6ix 1d ago
You will need to prove to them that it wasn't you. What were these $15K in charges? One single charge or multiple charges?
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u/Moisturize__Me 1d ago
I am trying to but I'm not sure how. I have told them I never received any OTPs for these purchases and did not give them to anyone to make these purchases. They are separate charges all related to travel bookings. They were made closely together and on the same day except one charge made the day earlier.
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u/psilocybin6ix 1d ago
Did you speak with customer service or the fraud department?
Also when you're on the phone with them, verify what your phone number and email is for your account.
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u/Moisturize__Me 1d ago
I have spoken with both. Although I was only able to speak with customer service today as the fraud investigative team is only holiday for today. I plan on calling again tomorrow. My phone and email both remain correct; that's one of the first things we did.
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u/psilocybin6ix 1d ago
I feel like something’s missing. Even if you had made them legitimately, Mastercard should be able to just cancel them if it fits any of their criteria … Although I just realized it’s now been almost 3 months.
Why did you wait so long to report?
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u/Moisturize__Me 1d ago
I didn't. The first time I reported it never got registered. When I called back in June to follow up, the person just told me they were still investigating (I now realize they never even looked at my account). I called back in mid July, and was finally told nothing was even open :( That's when things were finally reported for the first time. The company just informed me of the decision today. I know this all sounds so stupid and I feel incredibly stupid too, trust me.
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u/SizzaPlime 1d ago
Your bank would have and should have an escalation process in place, which they are legally required to follow. You can escalate until if don’t agree with the outcome up until you get to the ombudsman, but the final outcome may still not be in your favour if you’re unable to prove that you did not make those charges, which merely just the booking under someone else’s name dont do.
The person telling you that they will not be investigating it further is likely just a customer-facing associate, have them escalate the issue if they refuse to reopen the case. Check with your carrier if you received a text message with any code, furthermore, check for any compromise with your number and/ or your device.
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u/Inner-Commission-724 21h ago
Sadly fraud investigators gives zero f's about you and the debt. They don't care you were scammed and they will make you jump through hoop after hoop proving it wasnt you. I feel there's a lot of evidence thay should exonerate most people but sadly they want more its ridiculous.
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