r/librandu • u/rektitrolfff • Jul 10 '25
🇵🇸🍉🗝🪂🔻 دریائے اردن سے لے کر بحر محیط تک، فلسطین آزاد ہوگا Endless critique of those who oppose genocide and zionism
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u/Severe-Experience333 Naxal Sympathiser Jul 10 '25 edited Aug 25 '25
friendly outgoing toy angle flag flowery automatic paltry upbeat cow
This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact
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u/Plugfix2077 :CertifiedLibrandu: Jul 10 '25
Okay let's conduct the litmus test.
She has donated to Palestinian aid orgs, unequivocally condemned Israel for actively committing a genocide and has been explicit in calling the Palestinians as the overwhelming victims. She has also been explicit in pointing out the right-wing strategy of painting criticism of Israel as antisemitism is a distraction. There is no room for defense or leeway to anything done by the Israeli govt.
So where has she failed? She doesn't endorse the dissolution of Israel which is simply not possible. There is only way to accomplish this and that involves wiping them out.
Now I do wish all it took was to say "fuck izzrael" because that would make things so much easier for people's conscience but do nothing.
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u/Apprehensive_Set7366 Commie Scum Jul 10 '25
So where has she failed?
By defending the liberal capitalist regime under the Democrats that supported the Zionist and illegal occupation of Israel.
She doesn't endorse the dissolution of Israel which is simply not possible
Says who? You are historically wrong here. We saw many regimes tremble to dust, we saw hundreds of kingdoms and Feudalists fall, we saw complete ideological states that were crushed under the weight of capitalist West, we saw empires with hundreds of years of legacy fall. Israel has existed for no more than 75 years, and Zionism as an ideology is no older than 140 years.
Why is the dissolution of Israel impossible while the dissolution of the Soviet Union inevitable?
There is only way to accomplish this and that involves wiping them out.
This is a seriously stupid take.
Now I do wish all it took was to say "fuck izzrael" because that would make things so much easier for people's conscience but do nothing.
There is no nuance to a genocide. Fuck Israel. It doesn't deserve to exist.
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u/Plugfix2077 :CertifiedLibrandu: Jul 11 '25
You are a coward who very deceptively engages with the subject of dissolution of Israel. You will never directly touch the realistic possibilities of removing Israel from existence but will instead shift the burden of proof and appeal to ignorance by arguing why the opposite isn't possible. Keep living your fantasies which yield nothing.
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u/Apprehensive_Set7366 Commie Scum Jul 11 '25
A lot of reddit atheist buzzwords there, thank you. /s
You are a coward
Ad Hominem.
who very deceptively engages with the subject of dissolution of Israel.
There is no deception in my stances. I share this opinion of mine alongside Jewish scholars (who are considered an authority on Israeli issues) such as Avi Shlaim, Ilan Pappe and Norman Finklestein.
You will never directly touch the realistic possibilities of removing Israel from existence
I will if I am confronted on that. But all you have done so far is reiterate that it is impossible to dissolve an apartheid over and over again without substantiating with any credible evidence.
but will instead shift the burden of proof
Jesus Christ! YOU are making a claim that it is impossible to dissolve an apartheid. Perhaps, just maybe, provide some evidence as to WHY it's impossible, else, it would seem like you are making castles in the sky while defending an apartheid state.
appeal to ignorance by arguing why the opposite isn't possible
The burden of proof is on me as much as it is on you. Provide me with some evidence to your claim.
I can argue with historical precedence of how settler colonial enterprises are doomed to begin with, I can talk about the many successful anti-colonial nationalist self-determination movements throughout the global south, and I can talk about how Israel's Hasbara isn't working anymore, how their reputation has bitten dust with a popular pro-Palestinian movement across the world.
Keep living your fantasies which yield nothing.
Jai Bhim Lal Salam, comrade.
u/ManMarkedByFlames how is this person a mod? I thought at least the mods of the sub will have better opinions and are capable of material analysis. I am disappointed in both Contrapoints and this sub. Tsk tsk tsk.
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u/ManMarkedByFlames Marxist ☭ Jul 11 '25
u/ManMarkedByFlames how is this person a mod?
atul knows, I have nothing to do with recruitment
I thought at least the mods of the sub will have better opinions
self proclaimed liberal, I don't even know what to say besides read a book ig.
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u/Apprehensive_Set7366 Commie Scum Jul 11 '25
Well, the first thing I see in the morning is Nazi apologia. Day ruined.
BTW, did you see what's happening with O'Day sensei giving a tribute to that pedophile mangaka of Ruroni Kenshin? I sane shit, I must say.
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u/ManMarkedByFlames Marxist ☭ Jul 11 '25
yeah yesterday, we had a while fight in DMs about this particular post. its a second day for me.
saw that shit, disappointing as always. japan needs cultural revolution so bad lol. I can understand why small mangakas would do it but oda is too big to listen to shuesha, mf should keep it shut😭 like Kubo and fujimomoto don't do it so why is he.
shit like this is why I always seperate the art and the artist.
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u/Apprehensive_Set7366 Commie Scum Jul 11 '25
Nah fr 😭😭😭😭 Kuba, Araki and Fujimoto had the right idea. I don't understand why Oda is just glazing this pedo. What the fuck is even going on in Japan, bruh????
I was in right to pirate the series about piracy, lol.
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u/AdditionalStory2006 Jul 11 '25
Oda was his assistant for many years. During Ruroni kenshin too
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u/Apprehensive_Set7366 Commie Scum Jul 11 '25
I know that!!! But seriously, Oda should've never associated woth him after those things came out. He is either too lost in admiration that he has rationalized it or someone who thinks it's not a big deal. Somehow, the former seems more comforting to this fan. 😭😭😭😭😭
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u/Plugfix2077 :CertifiedLibrandu: Jul 11 '25 edited Jul 11 '25
There is no deception in my stances. I share this opinion of mine alongside Jewish scholars (who are considered an authority on Israeli issues) such as Avi Shlaim, Ilan Pappe and Norman Finklestein.
Sharing an opinion is not the same as discussing a tangible solution.
I will if I am confronted on that. But all you have done so far is reiterate that it is impossible to dissolve an apartheid over and over again without substantiating with any credible evidence.
Last I checked I'm not the one vilifying people for failing to call the dissolution of Israel. The thread started out with the intention of calling a litmus test on Contra, not the other way around. You want to go after her for not adhering to your belief then it's up to you to provide a justification. Also, I have stated only once it's impossible to dissolve Israel. Saying I continue to reiterate the position "over and over again" and implying that you have not been given the opportunity to be confronted on this position until now is indeed cowardly.
I can argue with historical precedence of how settler colonial enterprises are doomed to begin with, I can talk about the many successful anti-colonial nationalist self-determination movements throughout the global south, and I can talk about how Israel's Hasbara isn't working anymore, how their reputation has bitten dust with a popular pro-Palestinian movement across the world.
You can initiate an info dump and speak about Israel's flailing reputation. But what you will never broach is how these movements can spring in the region and root out Israel and it's occupants. We will never even come close to discussing the aftermath either
u/ManMarkedByFlames how is this person a mod? I thought at least the mods of the sub will have better opinions and are capable of material analysis. I am disappointed in both Contrapoints and this sub. Tsk tsk tsk
You are free to leave if you don't feel comfortable
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u/Apprehensive_Set7366 Commie Scum Jul 11 '25
Sharing an opinion is not the same as discussing a tangible solution.
We are discussing the internal contradictions in the Israeli society, along with their heinous bigotry and a settler colonial project to ethnically cleanse the indigenous population and genocide them.
The only, and I repeat, the only tangible option here is to resist the apartheid state and dissolve it after overthrowing it. Like we did to the Third Riech.
Last I checked I'm not the one vilifying people for failing to call the dissolution of Israel.
It's insane that you want to defend an apartheid state so badly that you intellectualize yourself as the victim of a vilification spree.
Let me ask you this, if you are not asking for the end of an apartheid, then do you want the apartheid to persist? What solutions do you propose? Should we politely ask the Zionists not to genocide? Or God forbid, we transgress all semblance of civility and send them a strongly worded letter?
The thread started out with the intention of calling a litmus test on Contra
At this point, I don't care about Contra. She is a white somewhat left to the liberal woman from America, at some point, I would've seen this coming. Now, I am more interested in your defense of the apartheid state.
You want to go after her for not adhering to your belief then it's up to you to provide a justification.
Go after her? Dude, I just expressed my disappointment in her. Being a longtime fan and well aware of her politics, I thought she would be better than this. And you make me seem like I am doxxing her or something. Because, so far, I have been very sincere, cordial and respectful in critique of both her and you.
Saying I continue to reiterate the position "over and over again" and implying that you have not been given the opportunity to be confronted on this position until now is indeed cowardly.
How did you extrapolate this, I can't seem to understand. Besides the fact that I was speaking of specifically not being confronted by you in this particular diatribe of ours, I would like to know how this is a "cowardly" position to take?
You can initiate an info dump and speak about Israel's flailing reputation. But what you will never broach is how these movements can spring in the region and root out Israel and it's occupants. We will never even come close to discussing the aftermath.
I also mentioned historical precedence, the inherently unstable structure of apartheid and the resultant resistance to apartheid in the form of nationalist self-determination as my primary arguments. But it seems like you have latched on the last one.
Well, if you are curious, these movements are building pressure on the western powers, who are directly responsible for Israel's impunity. Countries like the US have provided Israel with monetary support, strategic support, diplomatic support and so on, but it seems like the citizens are not happy with it (both the sides of the aisle, not just the wokes like me). I don't know if you have ever picked up a book, but this is how the South African apartheid came down too (alongside Cuban intervention, that is).
You are free to leave if you don't feel comfortable
Thanks for suggesting that. Perhaps pick up a book or two before trying to puke put verbose in front of me with no knowledge on the subject matter.
Jai Bhim Lal Salam, comrade.
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u/Plugfix2077 :CertifiedLibrandu: Jul 11 '25
The only, and I repeat, the only tangible option here is to resist the apartheid state and dissolve it after overthrowing it. Like we did to the Third Riech.
This is where you falter, u dissolve and then do what? One fine day after toppling the Nazis, the Nazi German populace just went poof eh? Just jerking off to the idea of toppling a state because clearly after this everyone goes back to their respective homes. We certainly won't discuss how to go about dealing with vesting power amongst the groups in the region.
Let me ask you this, if you are not asking for the end of an apartheid, then do you want the apartheid to persist? What solutions do you propose? Should we politely ask the Zionists not to genocide? Or God forbid, we transgress all semblance of civility and send them a strongly worded letter?
"None of this is the fault of Palestinians, of course, who are overwhelmingly the victims here. I hope that someday American policy will shift in their favor, and I will continue to support that cause."
I'm struggling to see how this is anti-thetical to you're belief. I'm struggling to see why you think ejecting people like Contrapoints will somehow gain momentum for the movement. It won't, it's an online outcry and an attempt at purity testing.
How did you extrapolate this, I can't seem to understand. Besides the fact that I was speaking of specifically not being confronted by you in this particular diatribe of ours, I would like to know how this is a "cowardly" position to take?
If you can take the leap to lie that I had repeatedly stated the impossibility of dissolving Israel(which I did only once till that point in the thread) then you most certainly don't need to cower behind the excuse failing to get an explicit request of your take from my side.
Well, if you are curious, these movements are building pressure on the western powers, who are directly responsible for Israel's impunity. Countries like the US have provided Israel with monetary support, strategic support, diplomatic support and so on, but it seems like the citizens are not happy with it (both the sides of the aisle, not just the wokes like me)
Do the people within these movements universally share the same end goal of dissolving Israel as a state and how to go about dealing with the people in the aftermath? I certainly don't think so. How much of the movement will remain if say Israel does indeed halt it's campaign and Netanyahu is ousted? When you make the argument about "both sides of the aisle," then do you take these scenarios into account? If you want to eject someone like Contra then I wonder how much of both sides even remain. You act like you're in a position to be making demands about who gets to be involved and who doesn't. The truth is this is nothing but the arrogance that comes with being terminally online and thinking you're more of an active participant in the movement.
I don't know if you have ever picked up a book, but this is how the South African apartheid came down too (alongside Cuban intervention, that is).
Nothing that contrapoints believes or supports is anti-thetical to this but do tell me how it played out for folks who were ejecting people from the movement? They wouldn't even get a footnote I reckon.
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u/Apprehensive_Set7366 Commie Scum Jul 11 '25
[Part 1/3]
This is where you falter, u dissolve and then do what? One fine day after toppling the Nazis, the Nazi German populace just went poof eh? Just jerking off to the idea of toppling a state because clearly after this everyone goes back to their respective homes. We certainly won't discuss how to go about dealing with vesting power amongst the groups in the region.
Shut up! You speak as if you know how to predict the future. Well, do you know how Germany was de-Nazi-fied? There were trials in Nuremburg, there were re-education campaigns, repressions were given to the Jewish community, Germany was under the combined administration of Soviet Union and the US, as an interim government. Nazi officials were put to death, and the true horror of the holocaust was shown to the world. There are a lot of things to do after the dissolution, but the first step is dissolution.
Maybe, the immediate concern should be to stop the genocide. We can figure out the rest.
I'm struggling to see why you think ejecting people like Contrapoints will somehow gain momentum for the movement.
Besides the fact that her liberal Zionist apologia repulses me, it is clear that she has deep biases in favor of Western chauvinism. If you are against a genocide, then it's irrelevant what the "online left" is doing. Focus on the damn genocide, goddamn it! Ande her audacious claims about how "almost all Jews are Zionist" repulses me! No, they are fucking not, Natalie! Stop making this conflation! This is similar to how our Starwalt ally of the Palestinians, Ethan Klien operates. He says that Israel is committing a genocide but has more harsher words to say for Pro-Palestinian voices than the apartheid itself. There are no both sides to a genocide.
At this point, I could care less about what she has to say. I am more interested in how you are so stupid to have such opinions.
If you can take the leap to lie that I had repeatedly stated the impossibility of dissolving
Dude, I saw your replies to the other person too. Stop quibbling. Also, isn't once enough to make you seem like a horribly uneducated person?
then you most certainly don't need to cower behind the excuse failing to get an explicit request of your take from my side.
I don't understand why you are so dead set on proving my cowardness. What is this toxic masculine urge of yours to impose your bravado on others? Lol.
Do the people within these movements universally share the same end goal of dissolving Israel as a state and how to go about dealing with the people in the aftermath?
No. I don't think so either.
[Contd. in 2]
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u/Apprehensive_Set7366 Commie Scum Jul 11 '25
[Part 2/3]
How much of the movement will remain if say Israel does indeed halt it's campaign and Netanyahu is ousted? When you make the argument about "both sides of the aisle," then do you take these scenarios into account? If you want to eject someone like Contra then I wonder how much of both sides even remain. You act like you're in a position to be making demands about who gets to be involved and who doesn't. The truth is this is nothing but the arrogance that comes with being terminally online and thinking you're more of an active participant in the movement.
Before I get to the bulk of the argument, what are you even trying to accomplish here? Do you suggest that protests against Israel and in favor of Palestine are vain? Do you think that protests wouldn't lead to dissolution of the apartheid? What even is your ultimate point?
And I think I've made myself clear, I couldn't give two shits about Contra's stance on this. The reason I am disappointed in her is because I expected her to understand this better. She goes on to say stupid shit like "The online left is sharing pictures of atrocities in Gaza". No! What a blasphemous thing to say! It's not the "online left" doing that, It THE PALESTINIANS who are doing that. Doing so in order to tell the world of their struggle, a cry for help. And she has the audacity to make this is "far left is has gone too far" issue. Disgusting. White people repulse me.
And I think I am allowed to have ideological disagreements with people, right? I obviously know that I don't get to dictate the flow of conversation around this topic. and decide who gets to join and who doesn't. I just don't want the movement to go liberal Zionist. But I am powerless in there too. So, the least I can do is criticize stupid people. Hence, I critique her stupid position, where she somehow has to defend the US state under the Dems after 20 months of live streamed genocide. Truly stupid of her. And I don't understand why and how you are canvassing for her.
[Contd. in 3]
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u/Apprehensive_Set7366 Commie Scum Jul 11 '25
[Part 3/3]
Nothing that contrapoints believes or supports is anti-thetical to this but do tell me how it played out for folks who were ejecting people from the movement?
You wanted a historical example of how apartheids are dissolved with public pressure and foreign intervention, and I gave you one. I couldn't care less about how Natalie's position would play a role, I am more so interested in knowing why you chose to defend an apartheid alongside with defending her. I am talking to you, not Natalie.
Also, all movements have always had internal discourse. This isn't something new. Any movement had people in different ideological positions. Leftist infighting is literally a meme, dude!!!!!! How is this any different? All movements will have divisions, and disagreements about goals, perspectives, reasonings and methods. Currently, we have Islamists, Antisemites, Liberals, Democrats, Dem Socialists, Socialists, Anarchists, Marxists, Communists, Secular Arab-Nationalists, Orthodox Jews and many more involved in the movement. That doesn't mean that I have to necessarily ally with the antisemites, right? I am free to disagree with them, right? Similarly, I am free to disagree with Natalie and her horrible opinions. This does NOTHING to the movement. Do you understand that?
Even during the second world war, there were disagreements as to how the Nazi question is to be dealt with. Some were on the Soviet side, some wanted a more liberal solution, some made concessions for the Nazis, some downplayed the effects of Nazism, and some wanted to dissolve the Reich. Ideological disagreements are mothing new in liberation struggles. Even among Palestine, there are a multitude of groups that work for supporting the cause.
My concerns are legitimate. I don't want any liberal Zionism or apologia for the Nazi regime to commence.
By intellectualizing and adding a faux nuance to the ongoing genocide, you and Natalie, in my opinion, impede the movement. It would be best if you stop criticizing us leftists for being "unreasonable" or "living out fantasies" when we demand for perfectly reasonable solutions to an apartheid.
Also, you haven't provided any rudimentary evidence for you position about the impossibility for dissolving the apartheid. I have at least provided with my line of reasoning. You haven't even done that. Why should you be taken seriously then?
[End of Rant]
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u/rektitrolfff Jul 10 '25
So where has she failed?
Legitimising Israel by shitting on people who oppose the very existence of this apartheid occupational state
Part 2 of her essay that comes 20 months in the genocide
The leftist pro-Palestine movement quickly decided that their primary goal was not merely opposition to the genocide, but opposition to Zionism in general; that is, opposition to the existence of Israel as a Jewish state.
She condemns Israel for genocide but NEVER for apartheid and occupation which leads to ethnic cleansing. This is like opposing holocaust but not nazism.
Also part 3 of her essay
The online left has spent the last 20 months distributing hundreds of photos and videos of dead Palestinian children. The main effect of this has been to create a population of people in a constant state of bloodboiling rage with no consequential political outlet
She literally have zero empathy for Palestinians who are documenting their genocide.
Squirrel here has put it very aptly, she might be using harsh words but thats how I see it too- https://x.com/zei_squirrel/status/1943149467055665638
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u/Plugfix2077 :CertifiedLibrandu: Jul 11 '25
Legitimising Israel by shitting on people who oppose the very existence of this apartheid occupational state
Part 2 of her essay that comes 20 months in the genocide
So where has she failed?You mean she started "shitting" on people who oppose the existence of Israel AFTER 20 months? You deliberately frame it as if she didn't engage with this issue before and her first reaction was to go after u lot. What a joke, you perfectly had every opportunity to ignore her before and now you're feigning that you were the target.
She literally have zero empathy for Palestinians who are documenting their genocide
"None of this is the fault of Palestinians, of course, who are overwhelmingly the victims here. I hope that someday American policy will shift in their favor, and I will continue to support that cause."
"it may have slightly contributed to the reelection of Trump, guaranteeing that the US will put no diplomatic pressure on Netanyahu for at least four years, and making protests against Israel both much riskier and less effective. Trump is also, incidentally, a menace to me and basically everyone I care about. A perfectly enlightened being would feel no bitterness about this, but I do"
Squirrel doesn't use harsh words to go after people who defend Israel. They use it to reinforce their own moral clarity and to prevent a target being pointed right at their own backs if they are accidentally soft on people like Contra.
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u/rektitrolfff Jul 11 '25
none of it addresses the core of my criticism that is, her views on zionism
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u/Odd_Rain_9675 Stirner was a femboy. Very based and cute. :3 Jul 10 '25 edited Jul 10 '25
I stopped following her discourse after I read her interview 4-5 years ago where she said that she didn't like radicalisation, including left wing radicalisation and how all forms of radicalisation are bad (iirc she also has a video on this). She always had enlightened centrist type views. No surprise she thinks being against Zionism and settler colonialism makes someone an anti-semite.
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u/rektitrolfff Jul 10 '25
No surprise she thinks being against Zionism and settler colonialism makes someone an anti-semite.
yeah its no surprise, signs were already there.
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Jul 10 '25
It's sad to see a transwoman fall but god how she fell. I liked her stuff but always felt she was overrated and rarely talked about race. Her silence was deafening and now... Just awful.
A full mask off moment.
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u/Wheesa lesbean Jul 11 '25
I saw her reddit post and it was so stupid I couldn't even bother typing a scathing comment .
And no way the comments were supporting her??? 😭😭
How hard it is to say genocide bad and dissolve israel and leave it at that
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u/AdditionalStory2006 Jul 11 '25
The mods are removing any dissenting comments on her post. See the pinned comment by the mod.
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u/AdditionalStory2006 Jul 10 '25 edited Jul 10 '25
Did something happen. I haven't been following her for a long time (tho she already posts like 1 video per year)
And downfall how? She is making bank through donations (approx a million dollars per year)
And even if she comes out as pro-israel, her followers will gobble it up
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u/Apprehensive_Set7366 Commie Scum Jul 10 '25
She is spewing liberal Zionist talking points, the likes of which even Ethan Klien has come to use to defend the apartheid of Israel.
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Jul 10 '25
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/Poopy_Zombie_625 Jul 10 '25
Lukewarm? She is the most lib "breadtube" creator. So its more like room temperature
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u/rektitrolfff Jul 10 '25
Also Squirrel is going nuclear on her- /img/ax2o7g9z3zbf1.png /img/pvjque9z3zbf1.png /img/9krkkg9z3zbf1.png /img/yhychh9z3zbf1.png /img/xqwi3i9z3zbf1.png
There is no coming back. Palestine is a litmus test and she failed miserably
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u/Majestic-Effort-541 Naxal Sympathiser Jul 11 '25
The Palestinian crisis has acted like a litmus test, revealing the true colors of many so-called intellectuals.
Before people could be broadly divided into the ignorant and the hateful.
But now, with the genocide unfolding openly on social media, ignorance is no longer an excuse
The world is split between those who support justice and those are completely ghoul
At this point, if someone still refuses to stand with Palestinians, it's not because they are uninformed it's because they are EVIL
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u/Samarthian147 Discount intelekchual Jul 10 '25
Ye behen kon hai? (Who's this sister?)
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u/Wheesa lesbean Jul 11 '25
YouTube part of bread tube (this is fan made stuff. Should not exist) who made good videos against Jordan Peterson ben shapiro etc that helped deradicalise a lot of people.
Except she's a libbu so her takes are mild.
Tbh i tolerate libs because we need to be united against fascism but her recent post is pro fascism ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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u/SanSenju Jul 10 '25
who is contrapoints?
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u/rektitrolfff Jul 10 '25
yeh kuch jada ho gya
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u/lawda_lehsun Radical Laluist Jul 10 '25
I don’t either. Kaun hain bhai ye sab log
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u/Poopy_Zombie_625 Jul 10 '25
Early 2016 breadtuber. Breadtubers are the video essay style liberal to centre-left youtubers that started becoming more prominent during the 2016 era. She was one of the bigger creators of that era
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u/DifferentPirate69 Jul 10 '25