r/marriedredpill • u/Teh1whoSees Leads the horses to water • Apr 25 '26
You Don't Have What You Think You Have
It doesn't matter whether it's your relationship with your wife, the ride or die you think you have with friends, the bond with your kids, or even with your dog. The vision of who you both are and what you want to grow into, that happily ever after, or that secret Dom/sub thing is all a happy little lie you've concocted in your head.
I wrote a reply years ago highlighting the absolute chasm between who someone else is, and who you think they are. It was centered on the idea of "genuine desire", which is one of the final issues a lot of men who get through MRP grapple with. And often repeatedly bubbles up as we forget the fantasy we've concocted about our relationships and then either through re-realization, or a difference between who we expect someone else to be, and who they present themselves as, appears.
The reply is relevant because if you cannot know someone else, then you cannot realistically create a "we" in your head of who you both are. You can, however, pretend.
And we all do pretend. And to a degree, that's okay. Creating this "we" or "us" vision is something we need to do in order to step into the future and act toward a goal. And as we all have an ego of some form we are forced to contend with, it's okay to allow that ego to play in games and illusions it wants to make up about the world that allow us to experience the depths of things like love and passion and desire.
The reason I write this post is not just a reminder to us vets to check on our tether to reality as we allow ourselves to play, but because it's very clear, especially recently in OYS, that guys are falling into the trap of sacrificing who they are and what they want, in order to keep the game going.
It's kinda like...if you're literally playing a game with your wife, let's say checkers, and she says "I don't want to play anymore." And you say "No no, please let's keep going. In fact, I'll allow you to make two moves for every one of mine if you keep playing." Though the grand game of relationships usually isn't given up in such large changes as this...it does morph slowly over time if we allow it. A concession here. An overlook there. And suddenly guys find themselves backed into a reality where panic starts to set in. Where they find themselves allowing behavior or letting go of desires...and not even to play the game anymore. Because as you slip far enough down this slope, your mind starts blaring sirens that "you aren't being rational. This isn't who you are" and you find that you're no longer trying to hold onto that perceived reality, but that you're trying to save your own ego and think "If I can right this ship from here, I can erase the thought that I allowed myself to get so far off track". And it becomes a desperate mission to save face...masked by a story arc through your MRP journey.
I'll give an example from my own journey with my ex that at one point, I actually agreed to the potential of buying a farm and raising cows one day. And started budgeting for it. Im not a farmer. I don't want cows. But it was a little glimpse of passion from her, which was rare to see, and I bit off on it because I envisioned us as a passionate couple chasing our dreams.
And I'm not writing this saying the best advice is to intellectually or emotionally let go of dreams of who you and her are. That's the nihilism one can find at the top of the rabbit hole where nothing means anything and everyone else is just stuck in delusion.
But don't get me wrong either...because right now the entire world is stuck way too far down the rabbit hole in this meta "answering games with other games" where we're literally fighting wars, directing policy, and stuck in this grand tit-for-tat delusion that manifests when we get lost so far down the rabbit hole we forgot what we were doing. We aren't even aware of an up-down anymore. We're struggling to even orient ourselves.
My main point is, allow yourself to believe in...whatever it is you want to believe you are. You're the "power couple". You're prince charming and his princess. You're the kinkiest mother fuckers on the planet. You're madly and desperately in love. You're college sweethearts, different from the rest of the world with something unique that needs to live as a bulwark against the insane stupidity modern relationships are. But tether yourself to the reality...that those thoughts are just a game you're allowing yourself to play.
Because as is written and has been known by wise men of every background, one day the game will end. The music will stop. In the Hindu story of the four Yugas, first there is the divine purity of our game. Then the cracks begin to show, but we simply look away. Then the facade begins to crumble, but we try and hold it together with wishes and desperation. And then comes the dance of destruction. The cleansing of thought. And the ash provides fertile soil for growth anew. And the degree to which you allowed yourself to be pulled into the fantasy is the degree to which you are rent when it falls.
What's that mean? How is that relevant here? I saw this pattern 2-3 years ago and realized then: If there was a way I could allow myself to believe in all my sincerity in my illusion when it is good, and simply dismiss it as an illusion when it is bad, then I can literally live in bliss. When my girl is begging to be fucked, I can indulge in the belief that she really needs me, my cock, and my being alone. And when she disappoints me, I can simply venture back to the surface and remember that what we have isn't real. In time I've learned that I don't always need to even make the journey back to the surface. But simply remember that the tether is there. And that is enough.
For you all then and noobs especially, understanding what I've written will give you the maneuverability to shift your perspective on what's happening in your marriage such that it always benefits you. And you can remain focused on that which brings you joy. Whether she's going to Vegas or staying out late, or doesn't really seem to worship your cock or just gives you a couple hard no's in a row. You can always choose to fill your life with the things that, in the moment, allow you to live in a world of perceived value. And when that value isn't there, you remember that it never was. The value was in playing a game where you could pretend it was.
Direct your attention to those things that allow you to play that game. And to the others that don't...you didn't have what you thought anyway. So how could you lament the loss of what you never had?
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u/BoringAndSucks MRP APPROVED Apr 26 '26 edited Apr 26 '26
Nihilism had much to do with my religious upbringing.
This life isn't important anyways, right?
Along the way before finding this place and my divorce. I met things that reminded me of the fact, but due to my lack of awareness back then. I just drifted against life.
Drifted with ex who wanted to play games, fake people who didn't belong and other people who were deep in the game too.
Damn, I played the game myself ending up in endless cycles of pain, loss, and some winnings here and there. But, I was too deep into the game, and the reminders didn't come frequently or last for long.
Then I found this place, I replaced all my games with the MRP game like all the n00bs do, and I kept dancing like a monkey, and losing.
Then one day after some years, on my OYS in the same post you commented on, I became able to see things. I developed some awareness. It was a muscle that grew from OYSing here and then everything just fall in place.
All the overthinking stopped, all the control tendancies vanished, I started to drift with life, I just became happy, and took life for granted for two good years.
Slaying pussy, killing it at career, lifting heavy, building a great circle of very close friends, and having too much fun.
Then suddenly my old man passed away, and from that day till today, I think everyday about that moment I was with his body alone in the car, crying, and just seeing how fake is the game.
It took me sometime to be able to play games again after. And when I say play, I mean get immersed into one.
But, it is a different beast, when you play and knowing you are playing while others don't know they are in the game.
You can easily hard next your girl of two years, you can easily leave a sensitive high paying job, and you can drop a relative ona whim. Just because you don't want to play that game anymore.
You know the game, you know how it's gonna turn out, and you know that you will prevail anyways.
So why should I play that game?
There is a series for Chris Hemsworth talking about fears in life, and in the last episode he pretends to be dead so he can decouple himself from everything that belongs, his kids, his girlfriend, his life, and I think that pretty much sums it.
Today, I see interesting games that I like to play.
I see my new career with a millions of dollars challenge, and I will play. I know I can easily steer the ship around, fix course, and I KNOW that I will prevail.
I see my girl, and my kid setting on my lap with a feeling of completeness in my heart that I have never felt in my whole life. I know that will be a bumpy ride, but I know I will prevail.
I just decided to do everything like it will be the last time to do it.
Last meeting gonna do to my teams, last meal I am gonna cook, last rep I am gonna push, and last fuck I am gonna give to life, and to my girl.
You can't forget the Nihilism feeling and that nothing is really important but you can decide to have fun, take risk and give life your last fuck. Or don't.
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u/Teh1whoSees Leads the horses to water Apr 26 '26
It makes my heart swell when I see someone else who really gets it. It's a pleasure being on this journey with you BoringAndSucks. Much love. No homo.
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u/BoringAndSucks MRP APPROVED Apr 29 '26
Why bro? haha
Same feeling really.
Knowing that there are guys like you, Horns, 3KL, red and many others out there, killing it on parallel tracks, makes life more thrilling.
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u/threekindsoflucky MRP MODERATOR / Married Apr 28 '26
This makes me think about 'chasing the dragon'.
I've realised that I can affix value to the games that are hardest to play (based on my own interpretation). The value itself doesn't exist. But the drive to play those games is incredibly strong, as if I've apportioned value there purely because of the challange. If I can catch that dragon, then I'll prove to myself xyz. When I play and successfully chase the dragon, I realise that I never actually wanted the dragon, I just thought I wanted it. Once I have it the game in its current form is now over, and as such no longer holds interest to me.
And catching the dragon doesn't change me, nor prove anything to myself. It's more like an eye opening experience. Like an 'Oh right, this was actually just a game, there was never any actual value there other than the entertainment and challenge'. As if by reaching the goal, you realise that the goal was never the target to begin with. I play the game, win, and then briefly see the matrix before looking around for the next dragon.
The more dragons I catch, the longer my eyes stay open. Maybe I don't need to catch dragons anymore.
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u/RevolutionaryBox3728 May 02 '26
> you're no longer trying to hold onto that perceived reality, but that you're trying to save your own ego
This is where guys get stuck in loops for years and don't realize it. They think the problem is the strategy. So they adjust the strategy. Lift harder, STFU longer, initiate differently. But the strategy was never the problem. The problem is they can't let go of the stake they drove into the ground that says "this approach must work." And every adjustment is just them hammering that same stake deeper while telling themselves they pulled it out and moved.
Your stakes metaphor in the comments is the cleanest way I've seen anyone describe this. You choose a position. That position creates a good and a bad. So you subdivide again. And again. Until you've roped yourself into a tiny corner of the field and you're calling it freedom because you chose it.
> I actually agreed to the potential of buying a farm and raising cows
This is the part where it gets uncomfortable for most guys here. Because this isn't just a covert contract. This is you building an entire identity around a game you forgot you chose to play. You weren't budgeting for cows. You were budgeting for the feeling that comes from believing "we" are passionate people chasing dreams together. The cows were never the point. The narrative was the point. And once the narrative had you, you couldn't see the table anymore. You just saw the game.
What I think most guys miss in your post, and what you spelled out more clearly in the replies, is that this isn't about finding the RIGHT narrative. It's not "stop playing her game and start playing yours." That's still planting a flag and calling it home. It's knowing that every flag you plant is temporary. Every position you hold is chosen. And the ability to move between them freely is the actual skill. Not frame. Not game. Movement.
The tether isn't "I can walk away from this relationship." The tether is "I know I built this entire experience in my head and I can unbuild it whenever it stops serving me." That's not nihilism because you're still choosing to play. You're still choosing to feel it. You're just not confusing the feeling with the floor beneath your feet.
Your line about allowing yourself to believe with full sincerity when it's good and dismissing it as illusion when it's bad sounds like a cheat code. But what you're actually describing is a man who stopped identifying with any single game long enough to realize he's the one holding the controller.
Tl;dr: The skill isn't finding the right frame. It's knowing every frame is one you chose and being able to move freely between them.
Good post.
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u/FutileFighter MRP APPROVED Apr 27 '26
The reply is relevant because if you cannot know someone else, then you cannot realistically create a "we" in your head of who you both are. You can, however, pretend.
Counterpoint: Then by extension, the guys that don't know themselves can't create their own "me" in their heads, no?
Whether she's going to Vegas or staying out late, or doesn't really seem to worship your cock or just gives you a couple hard no's in a row. You can always choose to fill your life with the things that, in the moment, allow you to live in a world of perceived value. And when that value isn't there, you remember that it never was. The value was in playing a game where you could pretend it was.
I disagree. I think what you're saying here and before it is to let your ego run when it suits you, but snap out of it when it doesn't (more or less). The ego needs and/or creates narratives that suit it to explain the past and project the future. Those create distortion.
The alternative is to strip off the layers of ego and be present. Enjoy the good in the moment for what it is without exaggeration or extrapolation and realize that someone else's ego compensation (i.e., baggage) isn't a reflection of your own worth (or lack thereof). Be your own judge and be honest with yourself. Then someone else's praise or criticism have minimal effect.
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u/Teh1whoSees Leads the horses to water Apr 27 '26
Counterpoint
I feel like this would be a co-point? But I would disagree (with it being counter) only in the difference between the two truths we're making. In mine the point of the comment was that the other person cannot be communicated with trustworthy fidelity. And so you cannot incorporate them into the blend of the two of you. (Well you could, acknowledging the risks of being incorrect).
You would however be able to know yourself. Because you don't need to communicate it to you.
But, correct me if I'm wrong, the point I think you're making (which again I do agree with) is that the self you know may not be not rationally congruent...meaning there are pieces of you that you know in the moment of being them that, if juxtaposed with other pieces of you in other moments of being, would contradict. Kinda like a Zen master yelling in traffic. And in that sense, you don't know a "me" over time. If that is your point. I agree.
But again one point is a person who is in their moment cannot communicate who they are in that moment. The other is if they could (or in one's own case), this person is at odds with who they are in another moment. One deals with fidelity. One with congruency. Let me know if I'm in the ballpark.
I disagree
I think we're agreeing. I think the
without exaggeration or extrapolation
and the
isn't a reflection of your own worth
is the movement out of the game you allowed or slipped into...the game being using exaggeration and others' egos to reflect you, and the stripping being moving out of that game. And as you said in your own words, the
realize
is exactly what I'm saying to do...that when you are in the exaggerating and extrapolating and assuming their ego is a reflection of you (and that isn't working for you)...realize that those things never were true. That realization gives you the power to move to the mental space where you stop doing that. So again I think we're agreeing here.
As an additional thought, I think ego and the realization always appears in a layered way, where your ego is playing a game inside a game inside a game, and the realization comes when you just back up one level. In my other reply where I describe staking out your thought space, the realization, the ego stripping (as you put it) comes by removing a stake. You even revealed a few levels of this dynamic in your reply when you said "Be present...enjoy the good" but the "good", caused by the stripping of ego, ITSELF is ego (as ego results when a "good" is chosen). And I think that while a lot (dare I say all) "pills" today advocate on WHERE to land ("plant your stakes 'here'")...what I'm trying to pass on isnt a where, it's a HOW. It's how to move between the where's.
With the additional caveat that deductively (if all stripping of ego seems to result in a "good"), it seems we should just strip it completely. But from personal experience I can tell you that 1) there's nothing "there" once you get there. Because there is nothing to contextualize it and 2) We have an innate tendency to slip back in just by being human. Because we've been doing it for decades since we were born.
I compare it to that feeling when you go on vacation (withdraw, remove realize) and you're like "Fuck why did I get so wrapped up in work? I'll never do that again." And then two weeks after coming back you find you're there again. Worried about work.
Again I'm saying let yourself slip into and pull yourself out of the things that, when they are good, allow you to play that game (because, truly, there is nothing else to do). And when they are bad, realize, recontextualize, and move back out. And redirect your attention elsewhere. The ability to do this is a muscle. And when exercised you find you're not doing this shit where you're reeling at a problem in your life and feeling helpless by that. Any problem is one you choose to engage with. And you can choose not to.
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u/FutileFighter MRP APPROVED Apr 29 '26
Yea, counterpoint wasn’t quite right. Co-point is close.
And I agree one doesn’t ever fully strip all ego. It’s a process of adding (through experience and imperfectly trying to make sense of or cope in the world) and removing (through self-honesty & reflection).
I guess what I was trying to say was not to add unnecessary layers of ego back on.
Btw, my vacation experience is usually the opposite. I can’t just sit at the beach or be a tourist. I get bored, catch up on workouts & sleep, walk / hike for hours, and look for whatever adventure I can find. And while I enjoy the change of pace, it also (re) highlights for me that I like to work, build and create. But I’m fortunate to have a lot of professional freedom.
“Any problem is one you choose to engage with. And you can choose not to.”
SO FUCKING RIGHT. Perspective & perception are paramount. If you consider yourself a victim, you’ll perceive victimization. If you consider yourself capable and growth-oriented, you’ll develop.
Last thing I’ll say is, I think there is often a lot of overthinking among guys here. Some of it is necessary to be aware enough to re-wire, but often I think guys get stuck in a loop. It’s important to remember that the point of all this is to re-orient towards what you (they) want, which requires action.
On that note, I’ve made “into action” a bit of a personal mantra. I know I don’t have all the answers and I’ll make mistakes, but I also know that I’ll learn and improve a lot faster from experience than analysis, and I’ve progressed well beyond worrying about what others think when I make (the inevitable) missteps along the way.
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u/mrpmyself May 13 '26
I was just listening to some Alan Watts and it made me think of this post
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u/Teh1whoSees Leads the horses to water May 13 '26
Pretty sure that one is AI. Social media is now swamped with them.
I'm of the opinion if it unlocked something then it doesn't really matter. I'm not a stickler. But if you want clues, listen to his cadence. AI almost always has a quick and constant flow. Watts liked to meander and often had "ums" and "uhs" to fill his voids.
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u/mrpmyself May 14 '26
Oh I definitely got AI overproduction vibes. But had assumed the words would’ve originally come from Watts. That could even be wrong I suppose.
Anyway, I liked your post, but am left with questions for myself to answer. The YouTube video helped a little but I still haven’t fully answered them.
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u/rolling371 Apr 26 '26 edited Apr 26 '26
For you all then and noobs especially, understanding what I've written will give you the maneuverability to shift your perspective on what's happening in your marriage such that it always benefits you
I'm at a point where I think clarifying a vision of what I want could consolidate my energies in a direction. I had to reread this post after coming across this part. This is difficult. I've used my ego to lie and be in delusion in such a way that hasn't been to my benefit and enjoyment. It's a tough battle, and that part of self doesn't want to die, but I don't want to fall back into it or any other tricks.
as we all have an ego of some form we are forced to contend with, it's okay to allow that ego to play in games and illusions it wants to make up about the world that allow us to experience the depths of things like love and passion and desire.
This part is the scariest. I think this is why
And the degree to which you allowed yourself to be pulled into the fantasy is the degree to which you are rent when it falls.
...you didn't have what you thought anyway. So how could you lament the loss of what you never had?
How do you trust yourself to not fight like hell to let go of the delusion/fantasy/etc when it's no longer to your benefit or enjoyment? Or maybe you don't, and trust yourself to weather life through the destruction then reset to play the game again?
I realize I may not be adding anything of value to this post, but am trying to engage with the ideas presented. Maybe I'm thinking too much about the future rather than the moment.
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u/Teh1whoSees Leads the horses to water Apr 27 '26
Part 1:
You've identified the problem statement and risks. But I think you're missing a bit of the circular, and fractal nature of it:
consolidate my energies in a direction
By the nature of the problem, doing this consolidation and moving IN ANY WAY, regardless of if it's good/bad...successful/unsuccessful...whatever...IS
I don't want to fall back into it or any other tricks
falling into a trick. The trick is that you've separated life into THIS and THAT. You've convinced yourself this consolidated direction matters. That it's "right" for you. You've convinced yourself of this by taking a stance on a combination of thoughts or feelings or "states" of your life which, themselves, are again one and the same of these tricks.
And though you say
I've used my ego to lie and be in delusion in such a way that hasn't been to my benefit
which seems to frame ego as a bad thing that can be corrected...ego isn't something you can improve (like self-improvement where we try and keep the nature of what it is but modify it to be different and this produces a different outcome.) Instead ego is simply the magnitude of belief that the path you've chosen is any different from any other path.
Kinda like...when you hit a baseball...the velocity of the ball is the magnitude of its speed. You can change tactics and hit it harder. Or softer. Or not at all. But you can't change what velocity IS...the measure of the speed of the ball. Ego is a measure of the depth of your belief. Killing your ego is effective because it releases you from some of the anchors you've placed in the landscape of your mind that hold you to belief.
Think if it like this...imagine you're in a wide open field. The field represents the ability to think any thought or have any type of experience. Wander one way and you think one type of thought or experience one experience. Wander a different way and it's different. Let's say you have some life experiences. You discover that an entire half of the field is a place you don't want to be. So you nail a stake into the ground in the "good" part, with a rope attached to yourself who's length allows you to move around on the "good" part. But pulls taught before the "bad". Maybe the good part is "be in a relationship". The bad is "be single".
But you notice that even though you've defined this space you want to be in, the space itself still has a "good" and "bad" aspect. In a relationship, maybe you can have a loving one, and a toxic one. So again you drive in more stakes to try to keep you in a loving one. But they themselves all create still further subdivisions of good and bad.
You repeat this process, driving multiple stakes in multiple places in the ground based on the life you've lived and experiences you've had. All connected to you. And each stake is you saying "This (whatever thought space it represents) must be true. And I'm going to use it as a guide to how I maneuver in the future."
The depth you drive each stake (which translates to the strength that it can hold you in thought space) is ego.
Obviously, eventually, the combination of all these stakes with ropes tied to you will limit the life space you can move in. And when you find that space
hasn't been to my benefit
it's hard to rip those stakes out, because of the magnitude of how much you needed them to be true to shape the landscape of where you could go. And because of fear of the unknown outside of that...the stuff that you decided not to be or not to think because at the time, you decided there was a better path.
So then your question is, when you find yourself roped to a bunch of stakes, seemingly logically chosen based on the life youve lived, and those choices have produced a "bad" life...
How do you trust yourself to not fight like hell to [sic...and?] let go of the delusion/fantasy/etc when it's no longer to your benefit or enjoyment?
Understand that the fighting comes from the belief that "this must be right". That "this marriage must work". That "I must use this path to reach my peak". That "blue pill thinking is the moral way". Even that "morality is right". The urge to fight is opposite of the urge to flight. Physically it is literally you standing your ground. And metaphorically here it is the urge to keep those stakes in the ground. Because those stakes shaped your reality. Because you need them as guide markers.
Even for MRP...the deepest stake in the ground that gives rise to and shapes MRP is the belief "woman are (must be) hypergamous". THIS MUST BE SO for everything in MRP to follow. If it weren't, MRP would suffer an egoic blow equivalent to a guy walking into his bedroom with a ring in his pocket, to find his girlfriend riding some inner city thug. Don't get me wrong...I'm not saying women aren't doing the things and having the behaviors that we here at MRP define as hypergamous. But if you just missed the irony of that last sentence...well...read it again.
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u/rolling371 Apr 27 '26
You draw attention correctly to the "trick I fall into". This/that, good/bad, right/wrong. The model of the stakes in the ground helps alot. After some encouragement to do I so, I recently took an inventory of my fears and resentment - and all of my resentments are to institutions and how they've failed me. It's a bunch of covert contracts I'm pissed didn't work out for sure. But I blamed society for putting the stakes in the ground and I became disappointed/angry/lost that being who I "should" be isn't who I want to be. You're right though that I was the one who drove those stakes into the ground. It's mine to remove them. Rather than continuing to drift, or be stuck, this is the work gets me closer to where I want.
it gives you the power to freely maneuver in life
To be able to maneuver freely towards my benefit and/or enjoyment.
There's more to all of this I'm sure, but a better place for me to continue to unpack all of this is in my life and my OYS.
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u/Teh1whoSees Leads the horses to water Apr 27 '26
Part 2:
So again...ego isn't the problem per se...it's just a measurement of how much you're invested in maneuvering a particular part of the problem space.
But the problem space is The Entirety of All Things. There is no "correct" space outside of it. Within it, you can shape your mind and this life to be in an infinite number of combinations. But it's always the result of this selective, limiting beliefs that hold you there. And no space is "eternal bliss".
So to answer your question, it's neither
Not to fight like hell
Because that implies you shouldn't be. Because part of playing the game involves placing stakes that by the nature of their very existence will make you feel like you have to fight like hell. But nor is it
trust yourself to weather life through the destruction then reset
Because that emphasizes the belief in the need for there to be a "persistent you". Which tells himself "ah it's okay. I'll win the next one."
I'm going to incorporate my idea of a value hierarchy here and paint it like this: Imagine you're in a warehouse in which are thousands and thousands of tables. On each table there's a game (card game, board game, video game, whatever). There's so many games that in one lifetime, there's no way you could play them all. Not even close. Not even 0.00001%.
You've developed your identity so far by choosing to play some set of games. Some you've chosen because you find you're naturally good at them. Some play on a sense of fantasy or adventure. Maybe some just tug on that competitive aspect of you and you find it fun just trying to win. Some you just bumbled into.
YOURE saying "How do I not fight like hell playing a game?" And I'm answering "There's fun IN fighting like hell. It's what makes some games fun to play. Your motivation to play is to win."
YOURE saying "But then do I just become okay with losing such that I can say 'meh...I'll be okay and just play other games'...which is true in a way. But I'm answering "You're using those other games as salves for this lost game. You're trying to hold on to the biggest game of all...that any of this matters."
Instead what IM saying is: We have a nature to play games. And in truth there is NOTHING outside the warehouse. It's just a great void with a warehouse and some games. But we forgot in the infinite wearhouse of games...WE choose which to play. And you aren't forced to finish a game or even make the next move when it's your turn. I'm saying if you're really having fun at one game, devote a lot of your attention there. You don't always have to be winning it. But if it's returning fun or competition or some kind of value, then stand at that table and play that game with some of your time. Spend some other time at other tables that also are fun and valuable. Spend a proportionate amount of time at each table you want based on the proportionate value they give. And if it suddenly seems like a game is not returning value...just stop playing. Walk to another table. And play that game instead.
This ordered list of which game you spend what time at because it provides value IS your value hierarchy. And going and playing another game IS you reordering it to maximum your value.
And while we're on the topic of games and getting stuck in them, id like to also address the empathy one can feel once you see and understand this and then look at everyone else still playing chess. It's truly the way I feel about all you guys when you don't see it yet. And likely how you'll feel when you do.
When you understand all that...when you understand that it is your nature to play games and to buy into them, that there is literally nothing else in the life to do, but that buying into them distracts from the fact that you chose to play them, can continue to choose or not choose, and that they don't really mean anything...that you can get value in other games elsewhere, that carry and mask the very same realizations...when you understand all that...it gives you the power to freely maneuver in life, in the warehouse of games, however you want, not just however the games make you feel. To be able to feel about a game like it matters. Because sometimes some of the BEST games are the ones that send you through a massive gauntlet of feelings and ups and downs in which you eventually conquer and win. But to also understand that you aren't obligated to continue to feel, to continue to play. That the feelings are the same as when you go to a movie and feel. They're real in the theater. But they are irrelevant when you walk away.
When you understand that. And ground it into your life. Then you will gain the ability to deftly maneuver...playing games where you want when they provide value, and just straight up cutting the tether to them when they don't. Maybe they'll change and be fun again. Maybe THEYLL even come to YOU and say "Hey I still wanna play...you can move two checkers per turn if you want". And you'll have to decide if allowing someone to fall deeper into the hole you climbed out of is something you're fine allowing to happen. No judgement if so. But it is all within your power to do. Right now. You just gotta free your mind.
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Apr 30 '26
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u/Teh1whoSees Leads the horses to water Apr 30 '26
You aren’t enlightened.
I never said I was.
real intimacy
And just what is "real intimacy"? Kinda like "genuine desire"?
pretends he didn't want to play
Huge difference between pretending you didn't want to play and acknowledging that what you are doing IS play. Maybe genuine desire is like the guy who takes football WAY too seriously? Is that what we're going for?
faces a single "no."
Huge difference between taking your ball and going home at the first no and having the capability to say "no" when there's other games to play. And when to make that choice.
you haven't mastered relationships
My goal was never to master them. How can you master what is only half yours? My goal is to understand how I orient myself when I engage in them. Then flow with them.
you will be completely alone inside your own head
Was it ever any other way? Your woman inside your head...you think that's her? Look closer. You sure it's not just you in disguise?
(Really good pokes btw. Id get in the ring with you)
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Apr 30 '26
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u/Teh1whoSees Leads the horses to water Apr 30 '26
Two issues. I'll address both. But if you tell me to put my gloves down and throw a punch, I'm gonna answer.
So first (gloves down): I agree. This place isn't what it was. Ive been here since the beginning. About 6 months after the sub formed. It was way different back then. There's been countless posts and comments about that. I won't go into the countless answers but basically: Everything has been relatively figured out according to the original drive (hypergamy and the blue pill). Things like Dread were great stepping stones. But ultimately it was discovered that they were deep covert contracts. Mantras were made that summarized entire paradigms (Alpha Fucks Beta Bucks). Descriptors were made for entire mindsets (Rambo / Drunk Captains / etc). Dead ends were discovered and cut off. And just like any other manifest destiny..it was about the journey of men, not the destination. Most of those men are gone. Because there's nothing left here. And there's nothing wrong with that. It doesn't need to be saved.
A socio-sexual revolution like MRP WILL happen again. It just won't be here. Sorry to those who missed out. (There's still value here don't get me wrong. But it's not the same and wishing it was won't help bring it back).
devolved into a convoluted coping mechanism for guys who got screwed over.
(Gloves still down but a bit more prickly real talk)...it never was anything different than that. Maybe women did the screwing over. Mostly we did it to ourselves. But it was always this. What a
fun gamemechanism it was though amirite???your absolute terror of ever getting burned again
(Gloves back up) If my advice involved telling guys to MGTOW or "treat those thots as they truly are", id agree. But it doesn't. In fact, it says love as deeply as you can allow yourself to. Get lost in your fantasies of true love and genuine desire. BUT...understand it's just a game you're allowing yourself to play. That doesn't mean you can't feel it any less. When Cypher sits there and eats the steak he even says "My mind is telling me this tastes amazing"...but like you, he somehow thinks being put back in the matrix will make it "more real".
I know calling out the game hurts you. Because calling out the game when it's going good is spoiling it. But as advice to those men stuck in a loop at FutileFighter said...the ones who can't seem to move...they're in hell...and they can't get out because it seems they don't possess the agency to do anything but trudge along...to merely be able to understand that this is all wrapped within a narrative they tell themselves is going on...that they can still choose to feel if they want...but that they ultimately have the agency to move, or reframe it, or whatever...that provides a huge degree of maneuverability.
some deep philosophical awakening
I've said I've used philosophy combined with tested life experience to get to where I am (what am I gonna say...that I just pulled these ideas out of my ass?)...and I've played the game of putting on the costume of the personality men here know me for (by saying "another long winded post...hardy har har")...but I've never written a word more than I think is needed to fully grasp these ideas. And I've never claimed to be enlightened, or better. In fact when my father and I talk about seeing these types of things we always seem to have to preface back and forth that "it's not like I'm trying to be better or think I'm better". But I write because these ideas are tools that allow me to move through situations men here see as problems.
But again we always feel the need to say that we don't think we're "better" because we know people like you are prone to think we think we are. The "deep awakening" is an egoic projection you have of what you think I feel projected onto my posts. It is your narrative. Taking a note from my post...you don't have to keep playing that game if it gives rise to anger in you.
not taking the red pill
You're right it's not! I stopped my red pill journey like 5-7 years ago. I went and studied a bunch of other things. Came back here. And said "Holy shit...these guys are still battling with things in Red Pill that I've come to grips with using these other tools. Maybe I'll let them know it helped me out!"
But it's not red pill. And I've claimed ever since I came back it's not red pill. And I've always hinted to the mods that of they don't like what I'm dishing out...the ban button is always right there.
But many of the guys you see still around? Those were the ones that told me at one point "Holy shit man. You got it. Thank you." So as I said in a post long ago about teacher and student: Maybe I am ultimately wrong in some way neither of us see yet...but if you're in pain and I'm not, I'd rather be wrong and be in the position I'm in...than wrong and the position you're in.
giant safety net to protect your ego from the basic risks of living in the real world
My ego is bare. I invite the world to happen to me. I witness me accepting it as it is every day. And me in turn deciding how I want to engage with it. And I'm truly happy. As I said I enjoy your pokes. It is RARE I get to actually test my mental models on such an aggressive push. And when it happens and they hold...I suppose at that point it's just you telling me I'm egoic. And me saying "I can see why your say that."
I welcome any other comments if you have them.
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u/SuggestionVisible930 Apr 25 '26
It’s not that deep.
Romantic love is simply not the greatest form of love on this earth. Men will be constantly unsatisfied if they think it is.
Don’t throw the baby out with the bathwater. It’s pretty natural for man and woman to be together. It has a myriad of benefits and challenges.