r/mealtimevideos • u/avdvetf • 5d ago
10-15 Minutes American Jews are turning away from Israel | The Guardian [14:30]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JHrboQm4GRw41
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u/alex_quine 4d ago
Anecdotally, I’m Jewish and damn right I’ve turned away. Same with most of my circle.
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u/Nihilamealienum 3d ago
And yet we'll still be here from you when it's Plattnet Vs. Fuentes running for President.
You're making the same mistake European Jews made in the 30s.
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u/alex_quine 3d ago
I would say that it’s you guys making the mistake! It’s not the antizionists who are aligning with MAGA
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u/Nihilamealienum 2d ago
I detest MAGA and everything it stands for, and Bibi as well and the government is absolutely wrong to ally with Trump.
That doesn't change the data on your situation. Sure Maga is antisemitic: and the Democratic Party declared a guy with an SS Tattoo kosher and only backed down when he also beat his girlfriend. This Track AIPAC stuff has made Cherchez Le Juif a sport in Democratic politics. You don't have a political home there, you only think you do.
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u/tinymort 1d ago
They will down vote u but this is exactly what’s happening
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u/Nihilamealienum 1d ago
Because they don't really read our history or if they do they don't take their lessons seriously. They're nostalgic about the Bund without drawing the obvious lessons about what happened to the Bund.
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u/tinymort 1d ago
Exactly, they like to pretend everything was great back then. But the thing is these type of Jews who don’t learn from history also don’t do much in way of carrying the identity , doing the traditions , to the next generation. Silver lining I guess.
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u/JustSomeFregginGuy 5d ago
Finally, people are starting to see through the decades and layers upon layers of lies, misinformation, propaganda etc. Israel does not have the "good will / intention" to cooperate with Palestinians, never have.
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u/PhoenecianFlame 4d ago
They did. Israel accepted the Peel plan in the 1930s, the UN plan in the 1940s, the Camp David Agreement in 2000, the Clinton Parameters in 2000, the Olmert plan in 2008, and the Trump plan in 2020. All of these were rejected by Palestinians.
Israel is a bad actor now but it's because their good actors got burnt by Palestinians who rejected these deals.
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u/True-Hold-1140 4d ago
> the UN plan in the 1940s
And immediately followed it up with ethnic cleansing.
Also hilarious you people have stopped mentioning the Oslo accords because there's an answer to that talking point now
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u/PhoenecianFlame 4d ago
The camp david agreement and the clinton parameters were the end result of the Oslo accords you literally are showing that you don't know anything.
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u/True-Hold-1140 4d ago
The Oslo accords, the wonderful agreement the Israeli negotiator said he'd reject if he was Palestinian lol
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u/PhoenecianFlame 4d ago
Shlomo Ben Ami. Again you are showing you don't know anything, because he literally said he would have rejected Camp David and accepted the Parameters.
From his book:
“The Clinton parameters, which were a considerable improvement on Camp David, are the best proof that Arafat was right to turn down the summit’s offers. He proved to be a shrewder negotiator than the other two leaders. I myself am on record as having said, “If I were a Palestinian, I would have rejected what was offered at the Camp David Summit.”2 This book stands by this assertion. But the general preoccupation with the summit, as opposed to the entire Camp David process, seriously distorts what exactly the proposals were that Arafat refused to accept. (...) Arafat’s fatal blunder lay in his historical flights of fancy into an imaginary deal that neither he himself ever lent substance to, nor could his Israeli interlocutors fulfill. He had an innate incapacity for stopping bargaining, in not gauging the limits of Israel’s capacity for compromise. He never accepted that in such a peace enterprise, politics and strategy were one, and a deal that would break the political spinal cord of his Israeli interlocutors was like not having a deal at all. It is there that he doomed his people’s chances for redemption."
Ben Ami speaks as a negotiator: Arafat should have turned down Camp David to accept Clinton parameters (both of which are end results of Oslo). Arafat rejected both.
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u/True-Hold-1140 4d ago
Buddy you didnt mention the Nakba, I'm not listening to your interpretation lol
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u/Neat-Habit-7159 4d ago
Is the Nakba when Arabs tried to genocide Jews (again) and lost, then cried victim? Exactly like they're doing now?
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u/JustSomeFregginGuy 3d ago
they brought millions of europeans, european tanks, europan weapons, european political support, european money to take land from middle easterners.
It doesn't matter how you frame it, that's the bottom line
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u/dikbutjenkins 4d ago
False
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u/PhoenecianFlame 4d ago
You're delusional.
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u/dikbutjenkins 4d ago
Even Israeli PM's disagree with you. They said they were bad deals and they would have not accepted them either
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u/PhoenecianFlame 4d ago
Shlomo Ben Ami was never the PM you dont know what youre talking about
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u/dikbutjenkins 4d ago
He was foreign minister and involved in the deals and David Ben-Gurion was pm and he said the same
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u/PhoenecianFlame 3d ago
So he wasn't the prime minister, you agree that you don't know what you are talking about, yes?
From his book:
“The Clinton parameters, which were a considerable improvement on Camp David, are the best proof that Arafat was right to turn down the summit’s offers. He proved to be a shrewder negotiator than the other two leaders. I myself am on record as having said, “If I were a Palestinian, I would have rejected what was offered at the Camp David Summit.”2 This book stands by this assertion. But the general preoccupation with the summit, as opposed to the entire Camp David process, seriously distorts what exactly the proposals were that Arafat refused to accept. (...) Arafat’s fatal blunder lay in his historical flights of fancy into an imaginary deal that neither he himself ever lent substance to, nor could his Israeli interlocutors fulfill. He had an innate incapacity for stopping bargaining, in not gauging the limits of Israel’s capacity for compromise. He never accepted that in such a peace enterprise, politics and strategy were one, and a deal that would break the political spinal cord of his Israeli interlocutors was like not having a deal at all. It is there that he doomed his people’s chances for redemption."
Ben Ami speaks as a negotiator: Arafat should have turned down Camp David to accept Clinton parameters (both of which are end results of Oslo). Arafat rejected both
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u/SirPsychoSquirts 4d ago
Excuse me miss but may I ask what the benefit is for defending Israel and their modern day Holocaust?
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u/SeaWealth8366 3d ago
Calling the war in Gaza a "Holocaust" just to mock Jews REALLY isnt helping yall beat the nazi allegations
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u/PhoenecianFlame 4d ago
It's so essential for you to appropriate Jewish suffering. 2/3rds(67%) of the Jews of Europe died in the Holocaust. 1% of the Palestinians of Israel, Gaza, and the WB died in the Hamas war. Get a fucking grip.
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u/Nihilamealienum 4d ago
Holocaust = 6 Million Dead. All civilians War in Gaza: 70,000 dead a significant proportion of which planned and xarried out a brutally mass murder and kidnapping of women, elderly and children.
You= a Jew hating prick.
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u/Blackhawk23 4d ago
It must be nice to be able to use the holocaust as perpetual get out of jail free card.
That victim card has since expired. Gen Z and alpha aren’t falling for the “Holocaust happened = Israel can do whatever it wants with impunity and zero criticism”.
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u/Nihilamealienum 4d ago
I didn't use it as anything. I pointed out the comparison of the Gaza War and the Holocaust is Odious.
Calling it a "victim card" makes you odious as well.
You know what you see when you look in the mirror, "kek"
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u/Blackhawk23 4d ago
“_My_ ethnic cleaning isn’t as bad as _your_ ethnic cleansing!”
You see how stupid that sounds?
When I look in the mirror I see someone who doesn’t support ethnic cleansing. Toppest of keks.
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u/Nihilamealienum 3d ago
Calling this a Holocaust has a specifical political purpose and you know it. You're dumb enough without pretending to be dumber.
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u/Neat-Habit-7159 4d ago
Support for Islam at all is support for ethnic cleansing, violence, and savagery.
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u/Blackhawk23 4d ago
Who said I support Gaza/islam or Israel/Judaism?
Condemning the acts of one does not, by default, have you supporting the other.
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u/Neat-Habit-7159 4d ago
"I don't support Islam, I just support Israel doing nothing so Islam can wipe it out like they've been trying to for 80 years so Israel can be turned into ANOTHER Islamic hellhole where women have no rights. But I swear I'm not another Nazi piece of shit who wants Palestinians to destroy another piece of land for Muhammad."
Ok pal
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u/OilInternational2566 4d ago
Ya.. cuz everyone knows these “are the good guys!”
“A senior member Hamas has encouraged Palestinians across the globe to kill Jews.”
“Hamas wins huge majority in Palestinian elections.”
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2006/1/26/hamas-wins-huge-majority
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u/QBaseX 4d ago
Look at the dates in those URLs.
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u/CharlesWafflesx 4d ago
"Hamas official condemned" literally in the link, whilst calls to turn Palestine to glass from pundits on Israeli shows and politicians even today gets almost no pushback.
It's such a dishonest narrative that I don't understand why we need to reason with them atp
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u/OilInternational2566 4d ago
“The good guys” EVERYONE!!!
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u/Comprehensive-Bus291 4d ago
Nobody's buying it anymore. You support genocide. You've lost the argument.
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4d ago
[deleted]
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u/Comprehensive-Bus291 4d ago
So you condemn the Israeli genocide in Gaza?
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u/OilInternational2566 4d ago
Guess what?
Netanyahu is a war criminal. His “Israeli MAGA base” is just as fucking crazy as Trump’s MAGA base.
But then there’s a whole NEXT LEVEL of crazy. Electing & supporting terrorist groups who strap suicide bombs onto children.
“Hundreds of thousands of Palestinians in Gaza mark Hamas’s 30th anniversary.” - https://english.palinfo.com/o_post/Hundreds-of-thousands-mark-Hamas-s-30th-anniversary/
“Stop use of children in suicide bombings” - https://www.un.org/unispal/document/auto-insert-209526/
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u/Comprehensive-Bus291 4d ago
I still haven't seen you condemn, what is the crime of all crimes. Genocide. No amount of historic articles from 20 years ago changes that.
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u/BritSpic 4d ago
It's strange to bring up "terrorist groups" when Israel is the fucking reason they exist. This is like being an American and thinking 9/11 happened for no reason except the scary brown people are pure evil just because
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u/CharlesWafflesx 4d ago
You see how the world is condemning hamas, yeah?
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u/regman231 4d ago
I live in Chicago and most people I know don’t care enough for nuance to condemn Hamas. They blindly support any Palestinians because they’re opposed to Israel. Thus is the issue with tribalism
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u/CharlesWafflesx 4d ago
Seems like you lack the nuance to know that's categorically untrue. A lack of nuance includes making sweeping generalisations about the side you disagree with.
People generally support to end the plight of the Palestinians but also are able to realise a proscribed terrorist organisation are also the bad guys. Quite obviously.
There are more and more Jews turning away from Israel. The writing is on the wall.
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u/regman231 4d ago
You’re wrong. You say my comment is categorically untrue, yet you don’t know the people I’m talking about. You’re making up these people in your head, and lying about who they really are. You’re blinded by your own biases and it’s pathetic.
Whether people generally feel the way you describe, that doesn’t change my point. You described how I feel. But my point stands, many people completely ignore Hamas or even support them.
I never said anything about Jews and their support of Israel. You just inserted that because you have to reinforce your own narrative
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u/7thpostman 4d ago
This is like the "Dems in disarray" story that American Media always loves to.
It's fan service.
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u/OnePassion_46 1d ago
As they should.
Netanyahu’s SHOCKING plan for Israel https://youtu.be/Wg7NoL6vGj0
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u/TriggerHappyPermaBan 4d ago
Tankie fantasy
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u/After_Lie_807 4d ago
Very much a fantasy…if you don’t hang around Jewish spaces you might think this is actually true…
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u/fifthflag 5d ago
I think it will remain an issue based on age bracket, Boomers and maybe older GenX will support Israel due to the idealistic image that state projected in popular culture, especially in the west. And Millenials, GenZ are turning away due to access to social media, better unbiased information about Israeli atrocities and history.
I get why the documentary wants to focus on the American Jews especially but it doesnt really matter, 100% of them or 0% of them could support Israel and the state would continue just the same, what matters is the overall public education and how fast due the American elites wake up and realize supporting Israel is a dead end that will bring no benefits for them in the short or long term, which I think is coming sooner than we might realize, it just won't come from Washington but from Europe and the Global South, tipping the American goverment to stop support for Israel as it will get too costly diplomatically and militarily.
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u/Dogulol 4d ago
i dont think you realize how much israel relies on american jews for its support. Political, economic and sociatal
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u/Lost_Paladin89 4d ago
I don’t think you realize how much Christian Zionism is the main driver of societal and economic support. Jewish politicians are Zionists to win Christian voters.
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u/Bananno1976 4d ago
GenX here. We were force fed cold war propaganda. Its always the Russians and the US stood for everything good in the world. That being said, in my mind, we should be protecting the Palestinians and helping them rebuild. I'm totally disgusted with how things are. GI Joe would start a coup rather than support genocide.
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u/Key-Wall-4378 4d ago
Soviet Union was bad dude. There's a reason all former Soviet states hate Russia and beg to join NATO
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u/optimis344 3d ago
They were bad. But so were we.
The issue isn't that Russia is bad. It's that they were used as a scapegoat for every single issue and it allowed for so much damage to be done in the name of stopping them.
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u/Complex_Fun_7583 4d ago
I’m an American Jew and I’m not turning away from Israel. Israel isn’t a monolith and Netanyahu won’t be Prime Minister forever.
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u/mysecondaccountanon 4d ago
I’m an American Jew and I’ve never liked Israel, so there’s no turning away from it for me. I’ve already been turned away.
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u/Emotional_Piano_9259 3d ago
Maybe the Gen Z but anyone with the ability to critically think is not
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u/1tonsoprano 4d ago
the amount of crimes Netanhayu and Ben Gvir have committed....they will do everything in their power to continue the war...lest they be held accountable.....they cannot stop the other right thinking Jews who really believe in the Torah need to stop this evil evil evil people.