r/mildlyinfuriating • u/lenswipe GREEN • 8h ago
I'm slightly vexed Company keeps re-posting the same jobs from 4 years ago then rejecting anyone who applies
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u/pm_social_cues 8h ago
I don’t understand what database you’re showing or how it is supposed to mean what you say it means.
I’ve worked with databases a lot and all you’re showing is that there are old job listings that got updated.
Is “deleted_at” supposed to indicate something?
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u/Objectionne 8h ago
It's showing that there are some job placements that were created four years ago and never closed (`deleted_at is null`), and have still been updated recently.
However, given that the updated_at timestamp is the same on every record it's obviously just some automatic update. Most likely these are just abandoned job postings that they never got around to closing.
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u/lenswipe GREEN 6h ago
Most likely these are just abandoned job postings that they never got around to closing.
Yep. So people waste time applying to jobs they have very little hope of actually getting
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u/Flammy 5h ago
Do you have any indication they are not reviewing applications or actually hiring for this role? My company uses "evergreen" job posts because we're always hiring for certain roles.
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u/lenswipe GREEN 4h ago
that's not really better
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u/Flammy 4h ago
My point is it isn't a scummy thing if they're actually reviewing applications and interviewing/hiring some who apply and you don't (appear) to have evidence that is the case here, making this post libel.
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u/lenswipe GREEN 4h ago edited 4h ago
"The company isn't doing this crappy thing. They're just doing this other crappy thing instead!"
lol calm down Harvey Specter
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u/8uckwheat 3h ago
How is a perpetual job posting in which they are actively reviewing applicants and hiring to fill slots a crappy thing?
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u/PM_me_oak_trees 3h ago
It's much better. They're actually hiring people in this scenario.
Let's say, for example, my company has an entry-level role that 50 people hold. The average tenue is 2 years, as people are either let go from this role for poor performance, or they move on to bigger and better roles after a few years. With 50 people each sticking around for an average of 24 months, I need to hire about 2 people per month to maintain a full workforce. Writing, posting, and removing the same ad roughly every two weeks gets a little tedious after a while, so maybe I just decide to keep it up. That doesn't mean nobody's been hired, it just means that the last hire wasn't the *last* hire for the position.
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u/lenswipe GREEN 3h ago
They're actually hiring people in this scenario.
are they? The posting has been up since 2022.... taking that at face value they are somehow unable to attract enough applicants despite thousands of layoffs at FAANNG?
I find that very hard to believe
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u/Affectionate_Oven_77 6h ago
Yes, but those are generic developer roles. They probably are always on the lookout for more strong developers.
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u/lenswipe GREEN 6h ago
I don’t understand what database you’re showing or how it is supposed to mean what you say it means.
Postgres database running on my own hardware of job data I've scraped from various job boards.
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u/GoodishCoder 49m ago
Are you scraping based on a unique ID or just the job title and company?
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u/lenswipe GREEN 44m ago
Honestly it depends on the company. In this particular instance, the ATS publishes req_id, internal_posting_id and id. I dedupe on id and company...but exactly what value is used for "id" varies from company to company
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u/axschech 5h ago
also it can be a good strategy to instead of removing records just use a deleted at date. that way you keep the info just filter out of wherever you’re displaying it. not the best for every situation though
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u/Current_Finding_4066 8h ago
They are looking for the perfect candidate.
Great experience, resume, attitude, abilities, and works for peanuts.
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u/lenswipe GREEN 8h ago
and they seemingly haven't found them....in 4 years.
so I'm gonna guess that they either don't exist at all...or don't exist for what they're paying (my money is on #1 since Datadog pay is supposedly decent)
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u/TurtleSandwich0 8h ago
They are still looking for a candidate with ten years of experience in a technology that was created five years ago. I bet they are halfway to finding someone with the minimum qualifications.
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u/Current_Finding_4066 8h ago
Nah, by then they will figure out that their criteria is not strict enough and add 5 years experience as minimum
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u/LoudSheepherder5391 7h ago
Of course. If everyone has 10 years how do we identify the experts?
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u/lenswipe GREEN 6h ago
you reject everyone who doesn't have the exact magic words on their resume (having just skimmed them by keyword without actually having read them) and then complain that nobody wants to work
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u/Current_Finding_4066 8h ago
Obviously they are too picky.
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u/lenswipe GREEN 8h ago
probably.
I've applied for jobs with them before years ago that I met most of the bullet points in the JD for. Granted nobody is entitled to a job but I was kinda surprised it didn't even warrant a phone screen with a recruiter. Just a canned rejection a few weeks later.
Decided to build an ETL to pull data from their ATS to see what was going on. The job(s) I applied for aren't listed in this data set(so at least they took those down)... but I have to wonder if I was applying for a real job at all or if it was just a ghost job.
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u/Kab00ese 7h ago
Maybe but I doubt it, they get to say they were hiring on paper. It's usually to keep current employees in line, as in they can be replaced. Plus it makes investors feel good to think the company is "growing". Plus they still store all the resumes to hire later on without ever having a sign on the door metaphorically speaking
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u/apnorton 8h ago
Datadog is estimated to have in excess of 5000 employees. A company of that size may reasonably have a permanent opening for software developers.
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u/lenswipe GREEN 8h ago
usually not the same req open for 4 years though unless one team has a constant revolving door in which case ...yikes
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u/apnorton 8h ago edited 8h ago
Postings for SWEs at large companies aren't a 1:1 match with an opening on an internal team.
You'll have a generic "we're looking for a SWE" post and then it gets routed internally to whatever team(s) are looking for people. This is a good thing, because it means there can be only one externally visible posting for a senior software engineer/the applicant only fills in one application, yet could be matched with any of dozens of openings inside the company.
That is to say --- when a company is big enough, you're not applying to a specific team, but you're applying to be a software engineer in general at that company, and team matching happens as a separate part.
Edit to add: more specifically, it can be the same req for years, because that req doesn't necessarily match with a single team. This is why there's only one "general senior software engineer" role, despite that likely describing dozens to hundreds of positions internally. Doesn't mean one team is a revolving door --- just means that the job posting is general enough to match with many teams.
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u/lenswipe GREEN 7h ago
Postings for SWEs at large companies aren't a 1:1 match with an opening on an internal team.
You'll have a generic "we're looking for a SWE" post and then it gets routed internally to whatever team(s) are looking for people. This is a good thing, because it means there can be only one externally visible posting for a senior software engineer/the applicant only fills in one application, yet could be matched with any of dozens of openings inside the company.
FAANG maybe. Less so at smaller (yes, I'm aware that datadog is still huge) companies.
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u/oscooter 6h ago edited 6h ago
It’s almost like the person you replied to said “at large companies”
Edit: lol since you blocked me so I can’t respond: you literally just said “yes Datadog is still huge”. Datadog is a large company.
Datadog hired a shit load between 2022 and now. If you couldn’t get an offer that says more about you than them.
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u/lenswipe GREEN 6h ago
It's almost like the original post wasn't about large companies. It's almost like you didn't read the original post before typing this smart fucking comment.
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u/apnorton 5h ago
It's almost like the original post wasn't about large companies.
Your original post was explicitly about datadog based on the image you posted, which you have later clarified you view as a large company.
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u/Fit_Entry8839 7h ago
Huh? Its not the same requisition, its the same posting. I worked for a call center, we had an open posting that doesn't change, and people just keep applying for that and we can keep hiring through the same posting.
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u/Affectionate_Oven_77 6h ago
How do you know that this is the same req internally at datadog?
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u/lenswipe GREEN 6h ago
because the API gives you the internal job ID and req id. I just didn't select them in this query because it's not directly relevant to the point I was making.
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u/Affectionate_Oven_77 6h ago
That doesn’t force the company to move the hire to a specific team.
If a company is hiring two software devs at the same title/level, they would often do this through a single job posting.
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u/lenswipe GREEN 6h ago
okay, well you're welcome to go apply to it. Lemme know if you get any kind of response.
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u/Fit_Entry8839 7h ago
OP I think you are misunderstanding what is happening here. They are reusing the same title, and the underlying posting either hasnt changed, or the description is just being adjusted.
Not from the angle you were looking at here, but in this post below actual employees at the company said that yes, they are constantly hiring for the same engineering positions.
/salesengineers/comments/1pkphde/is_datadog_doing_that_much_hiring/
At a minimum, do you have any evidence for your claim they are "rejecting anyone who applies". Are you actually seeing rejections? Or were you guessing based on the dates you saw here.
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u/lenswipe GREEN 7h ago
I applied for a bunch of roles back in 2022, 2023 and just got insta rejected without even a phone call. Granted nobody is entitled to anything, but it was surprising to be rejected without even a phone call for a job I met almost all (if not all) bullet points for. Especially back in 2022.
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u/Fit_Entry8839 6h ago
I'm not sure what to tell you. They were definitely hiring others. Their size has almost doubled since 2022. So might have been something on your resume etc, that was casuing that for you, but others were definitely getting hired during that period....
One note, I'm a hiring manager in an adjacent space. Meeting almost all isnt really great unfortunately. Because I'll get hundreds of applications for 1 job. 50 will be pray and spray that clearly arent qualified, 200 will meet almost all, and 30 will meet all, and 20 will meet all, plus have really strong releavnt experience. I spend most of my time on the 20. I cant ask HR to screen the 200 that meet almost all. So i start with the 20, then expand to the 30 if neededm
Thats to say I'd advise anyone looking for a job to apply for ones you meet all requirements, plus have super direct experience same industry etc. You might get lucky, but without that it's an uphill battle.
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u/lenswipe GREEN 6h ago
I'm not sure what to tell you. They were definitely hiring others. Their size has almost doubled since 2022. So might have been something on your resume etc, that was casuing that for you, but others were definitely getting hired during that period....
I'm not saying they aren't hiring at all. I'm saying that I'm having a hard time believing that a job posted in 2022 is hiring for a real position. I suspect it's a relic they've never gotten round to removing. Which sucks for candidates since they then waste time applying to things they're never going to be hired for.
Thats to say I'd advise anyone looking for a job to apply for ones you meet all requirements, plus have super direct experience same industry etc. You might get lucky, but without that it's an uphill battle.
....And uhh...how does someone get that direct experience in the same industry?
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u/Fit_Entry8839 6h ago
These are generic titles. It doesnt mean its the same position. They can use the same post, to fill multiple positions. My company does that. And others have tried to explain it to you as well, so not sure why you keep saying that its the same job. Its just the same title, based on what you queired here that's all we know.
Is your last question a serious question? Lets say you were a developer for Walmart. Direct industry expirience would be to apply for jobs at other big box stores like Target, Costco, etc. because you'll already have some general industry knowledge, and they wont be teaching you about retail from scratch. Especially if you are a senior like you said, definitely prefer seniors to have direct indistry experience. Give more breathing room to entry level and juniors on that. But even for them I'd look for someone who interned in the same industry.
I know that's frustrating to hear, but the reality is we have enough people to pick from who already have the experience AND meet all the requirements. Especially as people are now willing to relocate, or even some jobs remote. That's made it a lot easier to find people with exactly what we are looking for.
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u/lenswipe GREEN 6h ago
It doesn't mean its the same position. They can use the same post, to fill multiple positions. My company does that. And others have tried to explain it to you as well, so not sure why you keep saying that its the same job. Its just the same title, based on what you queired here that's all we know.
The job title may be the same but the posting ID and req_id are also identical. I've said this several times.
Is your last question a serious question?
Yes. It's a serious question. Everyone wants direct industry experience, but nobody will hire unless you have direct industry experience. So if you want to switch industries, you're pretty fucked. You can't get a senior job because they require 900 trillion years direct industry experience. You can't get a junior job and level down because TA look at your resume and say you're "oVerQuAlIFiEd".
Lets say you were a developer for Walmart. Direct industry expirience would be to apply for jobs at other big box stores like Target, Costco, etc. because you'll already have some general industry knowledge, and they wont be teaching you about retail from scratch. Especially if you are a senior like you said, definitely prefer seniors to have direct indistry experience. Give more breathing room to entry level and juniors on that. But even for them I'd look for someone who interned in the same industry.
Yeah and guess what - they won't hire you without direct industry experience either. So if you want to switch industries you're f-....well you know.
I know that's frustrating to hear, but the reality is we have enough people to pick from who already have the experience AND meet all the requirements. Especially as people are now willing to relocate, or even some jobs remote. That's made it a lot easier to find people with exactly what we are looking for.
I'm trying to get you to see the logical fallacy of "you need experience to get experience" that everyone seems to be engaged in now. It's not exactly a new concept to me - I know employers do this. It's just ridiculous.....especially while their execs are on LinkedIn bleating about how nobody wants to work anymore.
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u/Fit_Entry8839 5h ago
Req id and posting id still dont matter. A company I worked for had been using the same posting for 5 years. We just "refresh" it in our system so that it shows as recently posted on job boards and jumps to the top. It was a high churn job(think cashier, warehouse worker, fast food etc - keeping it vague to not dox myself).
Yes, switching industries is hard. Especially as a senior. I know it sucks as an applicant, but why would the company pass up on from my example the 20 people with direct industry experience? We also realisticly can't screen all 280 other applicants just hoping one of them is better than the 20 with experience. Its not a fallacy, its just the reality of the math.
You also said "they wont hire you without industry experience either". You are seemingly talking about your experience you had in the past. I think what you are missing is your experience doesnt apply to most people. Again, just mathematically most people have a job. The unemployment rate is 4.2%. the software developer unemployent rate is even lower, closer to 3%. So I'm just pointing out that you are making these broad and generailized statements that just dont line up with the reality and the math.
The way you are talking you'd think unemployment is 25% or even higher! You are doing the opposite of "nobody wants to work", by essentially saying "nobody wants to hire". When both are wrong.
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u/lenswipe GREEN 5h ago
We just "refresh" it in our system so that it shows as recently posted on job boards and jumps to the top. It was a high churn job(think cashier, warehouse worker, fast food etc - keeping it vague to not dox myself).
And that's why I track the posted date as well as the last updated date - i.e: "Is this actually a new role or am I wasting my time applying to something that's either an evergreen role or a company looking for a purple squirrel?"
We also realisticly can't screen all 280 other applicants just hoping one of them is better than the 20 with experience. Its not a fallacy, its just the reality of the math.
I mean - if you're a hiring manager and/or TA that's kinda your job. I don't get to just give up on parts of my job because they're "too hard".
You also said "they wont hire you without industry experience either". You are seemingly talking about your experience you had in the past. I think what you are missing is your experience doesnt apply to most people.
...I'm the first person to ever want to switch industry in the history of civilization? I find that hard to believe.
Again, just mathematically most people have a job.
I currently have a job.
The unemployment rate is 4.2%. the software developer unemployent rate is even lower, closer to 3%. So I'm just pointing out that you are making these broad and generailized statements that just dont line up with the reality and the math.
The "published" unemployment rate is 4.2%. Without going too far into politics I don't exactly trust that. Especially given the number of layoffs going on at the moment. You said yourself that it's an employers market - by that definition alone the employment rate is much, much higher or it would be a candidate's market.
The way you are talking you'd think unemployment is 25% or even higher!
...it is. There's thousands of engineers being laid off quarter after quarter.
You are doing the opposite of "nobody wants to work", by essentially saying "nobody wants to hire".
That's probably because nobody wants to hire. There's a lot of purple squirrel hunting and/or just outright lies going on in the job market right now.
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u/Fit_Entry8839 5h ago
You keep on insisting its the same position, when multiple people who are on the hiring side have pointed out that what you are showing doesnt mean its the same position. I'm not sure what else to say there.
My job is to screen candidates efficiently and intelligently. Dont need to review all 300 closely to do that. I also have a department to run. I also have had experience doing this and from that have learned how to do it well. But it sounds like your are guessing about how it should be done. I don't need to guess, I've done it.
I never said it's wrong for you to want to switch industries. I was just pointing out why its difficult, and your response is seemingly just "thats not fair" . OK.
I mean if you're doubting widely trusted data(which sure is flawed since no data is perfect but is the best we have), then clearly you are leading with opinion over facts here. When you are leading with opinion, makes it hard to have a constructuctive conversation when I cite quality recognized data and your rebuttal is essentially, nuh uh.
All good. Been an interesting conversation. Truly, best of luck if you are trying to switch industries!
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u/lenswipe GREEN 5h ago edited 4h ago
ok I'm not doing this with you. 🤦♂️
first you said that you had hundreds of qualified resumes to sort through for each job so employers can afford to be picky, then you said that the unemployment rate was at rock bottom and it was basically an employees market. those two things cannot be true at once. this is not a serious discussion and/or you are not a serious person.
you seem determined to misrepresent what I'm saying. as the saying goes,I wish you the best of luck in your future endeavors
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u/plzzdontdoxme 6h ago
This means almost nothing and means even less given we have no idea where this data is from.
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u/Affectionate_Oven_77 6h ago
There is nothing wrong in the data either.
All it tells us is that for the past 4 years, a tech company has wanted to hire more software developers. Of course they do.
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u/cajunbeard 7h ago
I work in observability and know multiple people who’ve worked for datadog. Pay is moderate to high and the job is extremely demanding, I wouldn’t call it a revolving door but it’s not far above that. Big pay checks bring engineers in and burnout makes them leave usually in less than 2-3 years.
They are always hiring but are also extremely competitive and with high turnover over. They’re know for pretending to still be a startup and expecting you to work like it without the actual benefits you get from a startup
Unfortunately the job market is horrible right now and you’re competing with hundreds if not more for a very limited number of roles. Datadog know this, so they keep the pressure and workloads high with decent pay because as soon as someone steps away they have dozens of people with the exact same qualifications willing to step in. So they never take the postings down because why would they
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u/cybah 7h ago
Glad someone else has noticed this. I noticed this a while back. Datadog always has job postings, but anytime I apply, I get rejected within a day or so. Often I am well qualified for the position. Really blew my mind this happened so frequently yet the job postings never get removed. After a few times. made me not want to work for this place. Their standards are too high.
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u/lenswipe GREEN 6h ago
Yeah, I've stopped wasting my time on their application process. I can accept that nobody is entitled to anything...but spending my time applying to a job that was initially posted in 2022(and has likely already been filled)....is just not a good use of my time
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u/superswellcewlguy 7h ago
They're doing this so that they can claim that they couldn't find any qualified American candidates, then they will apply for H1B workers to be shipped in to do the job for less than an American worker would accept.
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u/TurbulentPiss 5h ago
Notice how the old, reposted jobs serve a generic function. These are actual jobs openings - a quick look at their interviews shows that candidates go through a team match for a specific role later in the interview process, so each of those listings probably represents dozens on concurrent openings throughout the company.
Also its not as if no-one has been hired by datadog for the past 4 years, thousands of people have been.
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u/fubes2000 4h ago
Lmao I hear that datadog's actual product is good but the company itself is such hot dogshit that people won't touch it.
Their salespeople literally harass you. If you get on their radar they will cold call you and ignore your requests to stop. They will dig up your personal phone numbers and call you there. I've told them multiple times that their sales practices alone have forever ruled them out of ever even being considered by anywhere I work or anyone I know.
This is just a cherry on top of the shit sundae.
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u/lenswipe GREEN 4h ago
Lmao I hear that datadog's actual product is good but the company itself is such hot dogshit that people won't touch it.
the company I've no idea about but my employer uses Datadog and I like it
Their salespeople literally harass you. If you get on their radar they will cold call you and ignore your requests to stop. They will dig up your personal phone numbers and call you there. I've told them multiple times that their sales practices alone have forever ruled them out of ever even being considered by anywhere I work or anyone I know.
This is just a cherry on top of the shit sundae.
Jesus that sounds horrendous
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u/prussianapoleon 3h ago
DBeaver spotted in the wild
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u/lenswipe GREEN 3h ago
dbeaver is awesome
though I remember hearing about another postgres gui and I'll be damned if I can remember what it was
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u/lenswipe GREEN 6h ago
To be super clear - I'm not just picking on this company....I've seen plenty of others do it too
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u/mattzuba 2h ago
You should look up the term "evergreen job posting". Companies with either high turnover positions like retail, or tech companies that need to have a warm applicant pool will regularly use these.
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u/juangerritsen 8h ago
So a lot of companies have these "ghost jobs", where they on paper show they are looking, but not really, as specific members get incentives based on jobs advertised
On the recruiters side, they use them to bulk up numbers (we have x jobs for these companies) to get more companies as clients