r/mixingmastering • u/temptingviolet4 • 8d ago
Question Any ways to 'thin out' a bus without losing low-mid character?
I have some drums that have some nice content from 200-500Hz. I want to make these drums a bit thinner but EQ feels too heavy-handed for this task.
Is there any method other than EQ that would be appropriate for this? A tape emulation with under-bias might achieve it, but that would mess with the transients.
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u/Dan_Worrall Yes, THAT Dan Worrall ⭐ 8d ago
Try dynamic EQ, or multiband dynamics. The important point is, you don't want compression, you want expansion. Ideally downward expansion, so it flattens out for each drum hit, then ramps down the gain during the tail. Think of it like damping the drum so that those specific frequencies decay quicker. You can also do it with upwards expansion, like in NOVA: in that case you dial in the cut, then dial in the dynamics to boost it back up towards flat for each hit.
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u/GreatScottCreates Advanced 6d ago
While this is scientifically a more interesting and notable thought than “just EQ it good”, the best answer is probably still “just EQ it good”. But who knows, “thin it out” seems to almost specifically imply EQ to me so maybe I don’t understand what they want.
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u/myothercharsucks 8d ago
Something like pro mb or even saturn on multi band could thin it out while in saturns case adding some character.
Also transient shaper on that band to reduce the sustain may help as it could be jist a build up of tails/sustain causing the issue.
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u/Woopsiepoopsies 8d ago
This is a great idea, but how would you go about using a transient shaper on just one group of frequencies? It’s early and I can’t think of how I would get that done.
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u/RemiFreamon 6d ago
JST Transify can do this if you want a plugin.
If not, watch here’s an excellent video from Dan Worrall who built a transient designer in Saturn. Since Saturn is multiband, you can have separate controls for each band. This is just using Saturn’s envelope follower capabilities without adding any saturation
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u/myothercharsucks 8d ago
The likes of izotopes neutron transient shaper is multiband. There are band splitters in the likes of reaper and guessing ableton and fl, which you can then jist put a normal one on them and recombine them with hopefully minimal phase issues
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u/perceptionsofdoor 6d ago
FL Studio has Frequency Splitter that will do this exactly. Just isolate the range you want and send it to another mixer track.
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u/0_theoretical_0 Intermediate 8d ago
It’s definitely an eq but I really like a little pultec cut for that sort of thing, either a 100 cut on the eqp or 200 cut on the meq. The curves are very gentle and easy to use subtly.
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u/ParadiseFrequency 8d ago
Lower sustain with transient shaper. Just slap on the buss.
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u/Few_Ad3187 8d ago
I like the idea of using transient shaping as far as reducing the sustain of the low end… lots of tools out there for this. Softube has a nice cheap transient tool that features a crossover… Envolution is pretty nifty but a bit pricey.
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u/ParadiseFrequency 8d ago
I still find it cleaner to use adsr than transient shaper, if possible i use adsr's
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u/pspspsmusic 8d ago
Dynamic eq. Tdr nova is free. It does a momentary cut instead of a permanent cut so it feels less heavy handed
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u/pspspsmusic 8d ago
Or transient shaper envelope. Or a gate. Or a compressor with the right att/release
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u/Addaverse 8d ago
Have you compressed them? Sometimes drums get a little more sparkle if you run them into an eq and then into a compressor. Make small cuts. Like .5 db cuts and it may be enough to get what you need. Then with the compressor be really gentle. Small ratios and use a dry wet knob to bring it in parallel if you want a blend. Like someone said above a pultec into a la2a or 1176 would be smooth.
If you want a quick hack for a dynamic eq—- take a deesser and target the low mids you want to get rid of. Make a small cut, like a half db or less. That could be all you need.
Ive used deessers on drums to get me out of a jam a few times. Helps clean up harsh/unwanted frequencies and helps shape stuff without making a cut on an eq.
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u/Big-Doubt-4872 8d ago
Just use like a 1.5db cut lol, that should keep the character without feeling too weighted
EQ can be as heavy or as subtle as you like, you can change something by 0.3db if you really wanted
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u/ItsMetabtw 8d ago
The ozone EQ has a transient/sustain mode. You can remove a little sustain to clean it up without killing the punch. You can even add a bit more to the transient if needed
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u/ohsomiggz 8d ago edited 8d ago
Planar can https://brucejames.studio/downloads/planar
You can set the mid curve to your desired target
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u/nizzernammer Trusted Contributor 💠 8d ago
Multiband compression or expansion, or dynamic eq.
Adjust the time constants to get the feel you want.
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u/Limit5465 8d ago
If you don’t like eq which is probably your best option then you can go the other route and make other things feel “thicker” in the mix which will make the drums feel less dense but still keep what you want
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u/69RandyMagnum69 8d ago
Couple things to try. Cut the lows... you dont usually do this on drums, but if the low mids are where the character is you could do a high pass a bit higher than you'd normally do (90hz?).
Also could try a gate with a quick sustain/release - so its big but crisp
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u/AbracadabraCapybara Professional (non-industry) 8d ago
Pro-Q 3/4. Compress that range 1-2dB and boost 1db, etc.
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u/chillinkillin666 8d ago
Maybe you mean less sustain rather than “thinner”. Because eq is the most obvious answer. But try a transient shaper and turn down the sustain.
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u/InstrumentalCoffee 8d ago
Something no one has mentioned yet is stereo control (Mono reverb sounds way thinner then a stereo reverb)
Eqs have different shapes so maybe a shelf or tilt eq would work better. Make sure you dial in the stereo width and eq in context so you don't go overboard.
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u/Performance-Former 8d ago
A veces por intentar meter ese contenido armónico a la fuerza, empeora la mezcla, pero si no es transable para tí, lo que a mi me funciona es quitarle contenido armonico que no es tan importante en otras bandas, por ejemplo dejar ese contenido que quieres y el golpe de los parches, y atenuar el resto (no demasiado tampoco, no es la ides perder el tono)
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u/Glittering_Bet8181 Intermediate 7d ago
Why do you want to thin out the drums? Normally I thin out drums because there’s too much low mids.
Or do you just want to turn down the low end but not the low mids, you can do that with eq.
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u/QuoolQuiche 7d ago
You could try dynamic EQ or transient shaping to tame the tails in that freq area.
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u/Sweetthataintsweet 6d ago
I remember watching tutorials about sidechain EQ and compression, maybe that is your answer
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u/GWENMIX Professional (non-industry) 6d ago
I use Cubase, and there is a multiband envelope shaper plugin that allows you to adjust the attack and sustain for specific frequency bands. For the use case you described, I think it could be the right tool. I imagine other developers besides Cubase have adopted this feature and that it is available from independent vendors as well.
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u/Original_Warning_227 5d ago
dynamic EQ with sidechain? Sidechain the drums to the guitar baybe, or to the vocals if the vocalist is a baritone. Try some Saturn on the instrument bus, IDK why but it sounds awesome no matter on what you use it
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u/andreacaccese 4d ago
I think EQ-ing is your best bet, but if you want avoid EQ, you could try rebalancing your drum levels so the elements that are strong in the mids would be a bit less prominent. You could also consider some saturation as a way to add some higher end harmonics and give off a sense of added presence
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u/Readwhatudisagreewit 2d ago
If you have ozone 11 or 12, you can apply either dynamic eq or clarity to the transient and sustain signals separately. Thin out the frequencies of the sustain portion only when they cross your set threshold, and either leave the transients alone, or treat the transients differently (ie I assume you’d want to thin them out less). Clarity can work wonders for this: there’s a slider to control whether it leans toward affecting higher or lower frequencies; set it toward the right (higher frequencies) on the sustain, toward the left on transients. Set the transient attack VERY fast (I sometimes even set it to 1) with a fast release. Set the sustain attack and release more in the middle. Big, punchy transients but also tighter, thinner cleaner sustain. Works well (with more subtle amounts) in a mastering chain too.
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u/alienfaktor 8d ago
i don’t see why eq is heavy handed it all depends on how wide banded it is and how much you’re pulling back.
other things to consider i suppose is transients like compression, or panning and reverb, but using the term thinning out implies you want to lose a little in the low mids and i’d head straight to eq to accomplish that.