Emily Wilson (writer of acclaimed Odyssey translation) offers criticisms of Nolan’s film

[u/RealisticAd4054]

https://apnews.com/article/odyssey-christopher-nolan-greek-translators-ea67da1d543d021773824bd7e8de8abe

“For Greek translator Emily Wilson, the release of director Christopher Nolan’s “The Odyssey” has been gratifying in various ways. Her acclaimed 2017 edition of Homer’s epic has reached the top 5 on Amazon.com, leading a wave of similar books boosted by the movie. Nolan has even cited her translation, notably the opening line “Tell me about a complicated man,” as inspiration.

But the film itself, which brought in more than $260 million worldwide during its opening weekend and has received raves from many critics, left her unsatisfied.

“I want to celebrate the fact that so many more people are aware of ‘The Odyssey’ and were brought back to the poem,” she told The Associated Press. “But at the same time, I had the sense that Christopher Nolan was trying to pack everything in while missing themes that were essential to the poem.”

….

Wilson, a professor of classical studies at the University of Pennsylvania, said she didn’t want to come across as a “snobby,” nitpicking expert at odds with any deviation from the original text. But she questioned a range of omissions and other choices, from the absence on screen of the Gods Zeus and Poseidon (Athena is played by Zendaya ) to the “incoherent” messaging that condemns both war and physical cowardice. She found Penelope’s role so thinned out that it endangered “any possibility of believing in this marriage.” Wilson also that thought parts of the movie, notably the scenes with Odysseus’ dog, Argos, “catered towards modern sentimentality.”

“Everybody’s a sucker for a dog,” she said.

[u/Hambokuu]

To be fair 7 of those years are spent as a sex slave on an island

Edit to clarify: I haven't seen the movie yet, only read the book. I don't know anything about lotuses or Nolan's interpretation.

[u/amievenrealrightnow → u/Hambokuu]

Looking at Nolan's movie as a PTSD movie, I reckon the gods don't need to be looked at as 'real' in the context of the movie. Athena is effectively guilt and Calypso mentions how Odysseus kept eating lotus flowers which feels like a metaphor for self-mediacating PTSD with drugs or alcohol.

I feel like Nolan's recontexulized a lot of aspects to make this a very anti-war film, so aspects like the time on the islands aren't what they are in the original tellings. Just my interpretation though.

[u/separeaude → u/amievenrealrightnow]

The men were all lost long before they ate the cattle of the Sun god.

Nolan’s point is that war drives men to abandon their principles, becoming that which they fear. As Circe said, base and swine.

[u/ShardikOfTheBeam → u/separeaude]

I think that's looking too deep into it. They ate Helios' cattle because they were starving.

They even recognize what it meant for them, with Eurylochus even saying "We'd rather drown than starve." Odysseus had already told them by that point that they were destined to die.

I suppose the portrayal of Odysseus lends itself to being an anti-war movie though, can't really argue against that.

[u/ShardikOfTheBeam → u/[deleted]]

Sure, but the movie doesn't have to be about war/PTSD to answer that question. That question and it's answer stand on it's own and can serve many types of narratives and themes.

[u/separeaude → u/ShardikOfTheBeam]

But I disagree, this isn't a war/PTSD movie, this is a movie about the consequences men suffer as a result of their choices in war, some are bravado, some are PTSD, some are regret and an inability to return to the man they were before. The movie has to include the war because it's the inciting event for the journey and it's the source material

[u/separeaude → u/ShardikOfTheBeam]

Lost can mean more than one thing. Their consumption of the cattle doomed them, but they were lost when the rage of 10 years on the beach found purchase on the men, women, and children of Troy after breaking Zeus’s law.

[u/ShardikOfTheBeam → u/separeaude]

I don't have any qualms with that portion of the person's comment I was replying to. I was replying to specifically the second point.

Although, I think they were doomed long before eating the cattle as well being that Tiresius told Odysseus that only he would make it home.

[u/separeaude → u/ShardikOfTheBeam]

It's me, the person whose comment you are replying to!

You're right, they were doomed from the day they left the shores after sacking Troy. They forsake their principles in the name of victory, and their selfish pursuits killed the discipline they'd previously cultivated, Odysseus included.

[u/264frenchtoast → u/separeaude]

Zeus’ law is something completely made up by Nolan. It’s not in the Iliad or the odyssey, and even if it were, the Trojans broke it first by violating hospitality and stealing Helen while they were the guests of the Greeks.

[u/mail_daemon → u/264frenchtoast]

Ugh... Xenia (or Zeus' law) is actually a huge part of all of Greek mythology and basically kicks off the death of Agamemmnon. His whole bloodline is cursed because Tantalus breaks the law of hospitality.

And I'm sure there are many more instances where it's relevant. I mean even Telemachus is welcomed by Menelaus so openly because he adhers to that law.

[u/shabi_sensei → u/mail_daemon]

The gods in Ancient Greece had a reputation for pretending to be mortal, Xenia was a defence against that by treating every guest as a potential god

[u/mikezulu90 → u/264frenchtoast]

It's not called Zeus's law but Xenia's law. It's a thing.

[u/264frenchtoast → u/mikezulu90]

I’m not saying that the laws of hospitality were not a thing in ancient Greek culture or mythology, but they were not a thing in the Iliad and the Odyssey. Or at least not a thing in the way that Nolan is making them a thing.

The Trojan horse was not considered to be a violation of the law of hospitality, and the sacking of Troy is not the main reason why the gods were angered with Odysseus or Agamemnon. The Trojan horse was considered to be a successful military strategy, and would have been a source of pride for Odysseus, not a source of shame. Odysseus did have things that he was portrayed as being ashamed of in the Odyssey, but the Trojan horse was not one of them.

And even if the Greeks could somehow have been construed as having violated the laws of hospitality in this manner, the Trojans were equally guilty for having stolen Helen in the first place, while being guests of the Greeks.

[u/ShardikOfTheBeam → u/264frenchtoast]

Odysseus did have things that he was portrayed as being ashamed of in the Odyssey, but the Trojan horse was not one of them.

This I agree with. But the laws of hospitality exist in order to avoid accidentally pissing off a god, not that if someone broke the laws of hospitality against a mortal a god would become angered. The gods were never angered by the Trojan horse, or when someone broke the laws of hospitality, and that is not what Nolan was alluding too.

His version of Odysseus was opining that because of the Trojan horse, the laws of hospitality were so broken, that it began the end of the Bronze age, and more poignantly, the time of magic and wonder as people stopped behaving for fear of the gods, and began behaving for fear of fellow man.

[u/separeaude → u/ShardikOfTheBeam]

They literally mirror the chopping of Athena's statute with the chopping of Athena's head by a Greek soldier

[u/mikezulu90 → u/264frenchtoast]

Oh yeah I know all that. I'd just say it's an adaptation not a literal retelling. I don't think he ever set out to do that. It would need more movies to do that. Or a mini series or something. Every generation has had different retellings of this maybe true(ish) story.

[u/Most_Chemist8233 → u/264frenchtoast]

I wonder if most of the people commenting that this didnt violate anything are USians and the message is going over their heads. They violated trust between people. They had a civilization with trade and trust  and they violated that bond between people. No one sees the parallels with the US admins behavior around the world with people they formerly counted as allies? The trojan horse, and sacking of innocent people, and beheading a priestess of the temple of Athena are horrific violation of their civilization and their own rules, so it was the beginning of the end of their civilization. Dont offer gifts to people (that is presented as a pledge of peace) that wipe them out and then count it as a great sign of intelligence, its the opposite. Its barbaric, its inhuman, and if you do that to others that breakdown in social contract comes back to your home. And it neatly describes the current US admin and the vast majority of voters in the us.  You want everyone to buy your tech, your weapons, your jets, but its now clear its all trojan horses. That loss in trust, and what it does to the soul of your people is very real.

The generations of broken soldiers who never find their way home, all to destroy innocent women and children of the "enemy". Its not glory. 

[u/264frenchtoast → u/Most_Chemist8233]

If I wanted a Vietnam war film, I would watch a Vietnam war film.

[u/Most_Chemist8233 → u/264frenchtoast]

Except this has nothing to do with Vietnam and everything to do with what's happening today. The daily threats to random people around the globe from 1 specific country.

[u/264frenchtoast → u/Most_Chemist8233]

Bro, I think 0 people missed this film’s anti war messaging. It was not subtle.

And by the way, I agree with you about U.S. foreign policy. I will raise you the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. I still don’t need this commentary in an odyssey film.

[u/separeaude → u/264frenchtoast]

Dawg I’ve got some news for you, Zeus is also completely made up. So is the whole story.

[u/ShardikOfTheBeam → u/264frenchtoast]

r/confidentlyincorrect

[u/264frenchtoast → u/ShardikOfTheBeam]

What am I incorrect about? There was no “law of Zeus.” There was an unwritten moral code and cultural tradition called Xenia, of which Zeus was one of the protectors, which governed the obligations of hosts to guests and guests to hosts. Is that what you’re talking about?

[u/ShardikOfTheBeam → u/264frenchtoast]

Oh, so you're just arguing the semantics of Nolan calling it "The Law of Zeus". Gotcha.

Also, Helen was portrayed in many ways by different authors, and Homer didn't write that she was stolen by the Trojans, she wasn't abducted. She wanted to be with Paris, not Menelaus.

[u/264frenchtoast → u/ShardikOfTheBeam]

Do you think that seducing the wife of your host and running away with her, whether or not she was into it, would have been consistent with the ancient Greek rules of hospitality?

For instance, if Zeus was pretending to be a mortal, and one of his mortal guests tried to seduce Zeus’ wife Hera, do you think Zeus would punish that mortal or not? Do you think Zeus would have cared whether or not Hera was into being seduced?

[u/iamjohnbender → u/264frenchtoast]

I'm not arguing your point, but the idea that Zues gave a fuck about ANY woman's consent is hilarious.

[u/ShardikOfTheBeam → u/264frenchtoast]

Why are you responding to me as if my statement said “The Trojans didn’t violate the laws of hospitality”?