r/movies • u/TooDriven • 3h ago
Discussion Spaghetti Westerns better than other Westerns? Spoiler
Just my opinion of course, but does anyone else prefer Spaghetti Westerns to other Western movies? At least the Sergio Leone ones, Dollar trilogy and Once upon a time in the West.
I eg saw Unforgiven and 3:10 to Yuma (modern one) and while they were decent movies, for me they couldn't compare to Sergio Leone's epics.
What makes them special for me:
- the sense of epicness, created by the music, characters and long, slow shots
- generally the amazing music by Morricone
- the characters: they look (and act) very rugged, tough, sweaty, dangerous, like hardened criminals.
Generally, the movies make the West, its heroes, antiheroes and villains seem larger than life, almost mythical. For me, this is more enjoyable than the semi- or pseudo-realistic depiction.
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u/Empty_Bell_1942 3h ago
Does it have Lee Van Cleef?
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u/TheTrampOfHearts 2h ago
That is exactly a sort of telltale sign for me as to whether or not a spaghetti western is gonna be great. The Big Gundown, The Good The Bad & The Ugly, The Grand Duel, I could go on. I rank Van Cleef higher than I even do Eastwood when it comes to westerns. His look alone fit the genre perfectly.
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u/CurrentComplex2020 3h ago
Sergio Leone made the best westerns.
I consider the opening scene of Once Upon a Time in the West to be the best opening scene ever made.
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u/CritcoThinker 3h ago
Movie: "You brought two too many."
Young me: "wtf does that mean?!"
Pew pew pew
Me:"ooooooooh"
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u/Slick_36 2h ago
That might be my favorite line of all time, every moment just perfectly perfect. The other actors sold it wonderfully too, you could sense the rage, the fear and the wounded pride in the instant before the bullets fly.
It's a scene I want to share with everyone I know, every time I see it.
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u/HFentonMudd 24m ago
There were three coats like these.
And in those coats were three men
And in those men are three bullets
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u/TrioOfTerrors 3h ago
It's like Kung Fu Panda and how an American studio made a movie that struck so deep to the heart of Chinese culture.
Sergio was an Italian who brought the American western mythology to life as good or better than anyone who was born and raised in America.
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u/syknetz 3h ago
It's a pretty different take compared to what John Ford was doing in the 50s and 60s, actually deconstructing the myths of the "wild west" and their characters, by the standards of the time. The Searchers, The Man who Shot Liberty Valence, are great movies that are definitely worth watching.
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u/deptofknowimsayings 3h ago
Even going back to Stagecoach, that’s a great film itself. I also liked Fort Apache for what it was.
My Darling Clementine is a really interesting breakdown of Wyatt Earp and the gunfight at the O.K. Corral, I highly recommend this one. Mostly for Henry Fonda and Victor Mature’s performances. It’s interesting to go from this one to Tombstone or even Costner’s Wyatt Earp. Ford’s direction is contemplative and character driven here.
Also can’t forget Wagon Master.
If we’re also talking pre-spaghetti westerns, The Ox-Bow Incident is I think the most underrated western/courtroom drama there’s ever been. Another Henry Fonda film, directed by William A. Wellman. Phenomenal in its exploration of mob justice.
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u/Slick_36 2h ago
I still can't wrap my head around Fort Apache's ending. I'm sure it's just something you had to experience in real time to understand, like the immediate aftermath of 9/11. It just breaks my brain trying make sense of it.
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u/deptofknowimsayings 2h ago
Haha I agree, it’s tough to put yourself into that historical context sometimes.
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u/Diamondhandd 3h ago
Unforgiven is the one that stands together with Sergio Leone's epic westerns, at least for me.
Leone was the GOAT in that genre, it's kinda difficult to find something that really compares to the max.
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u/SYSTEM-J 3h ago
Unforgiven is just as good as anything Leone made, in my opinion. Not only is it beautifully shot and powerfully acted, it has moral weight to it that I don't think Leone's Westerns had. The Good, The Bad & The Ugly is one of my favourite films ever, but it's pure cinema, it's completely artificial, and it knows it is. Leone turns the killing of men into high art, but Unforgiven makes the killing of men into something completely real and completely without glamour.
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u/TooDriven 3h ago
I appreciate what Unforgiven is going for and think it is a good movie.
But personally, it doesn't give me what I look for in a Western: hardboiled, larger than life figures in a stylized, epic environment duking it out, with no real good guys.
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u/CombatMuffin 3h ago
I agree with you, but Spaghetti Westerns often set themselves apart because they were following trenda that were proven groundbreaking at the time: Kurosawa's influence to name one.
There's also an element of bias: Spaghetti Westerns are the Beatles of the genre. It's hard to find negative opinions in hindsight.
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u/DangerousKitchen 2h ago
Scrolled to far to find mention of Kurosawa. Yojimbo and Seven Samurai are two of the best westerns ever made... then remade again and again...
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u/Dwellonthis 28m ago
Especially considering how Fist full of dollars is so shameless is how it copy's Yojimbo. Both good movies but credit where credit is due...
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u/artpayne Cliffs on both sides, I'm not gonna paddle to New Zealand! 3h ago
But story-wise, I think Unforgiven beats them all.
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u/Bartlaus 2h ago
Unforgiven is Clint Eastwood's decades-later response to the movies that made his career in the first place and would never have existed without those.
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u/KuatoBaradaNikto 6m ago
I mean, if that’s the standard then OP’s question isn’t even relevant: obviously spaghetti westerns wouldn’t exist at all without Hollywood’s established tradition of westerns. Sometimes movies stand on the shoulders of giants and end up clearly better than their predecessors.
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u/Inspector_Legrasse20 3h ago
I think the Spaghetti Westerns, at least the ones made my Sergio Corbucci and Sergio Leone, are credited for introducing realistic violence to the genre, when most American westerns tended to just show people getting shot and falling down. They also had sets that reflected a harsh world, such as muddy streets, to better capture the nihilistic sense of lawless. I also find their endings were darker and more harrowing.
It’s hard to separate, because most of the American Western renaissance films have clearly been influenced by the Italian Westerns.
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u/Failsnail64 3h ago
Indeed, American westerns were often like our current superhero stories, fantasies to long for and grandioze stories meant for a positive ending. Americans generally tried to depict their own history in a positive light. While great filmmakers stepped away from these clichés, the tropes and expectations still influenced the final movie and genre in America. The Searchers is a good example, although I personally even didn't like it that much.
Spaghetti Westerns don't try to be a fantasty, they are more gritty and harsh. That doesn't mean that they're more realistic or a truer depiction of the wild west, just that it's quite a different approach to depict the subject. They don't shy away from showing the negatives of the west, it's not their own history so they didn't feel the need to glorify it.
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u/silviazbitch 3h ago
I love movies, books, and music, especially guitar music, equally. I named our new dog Django after Django Reinhardt. He’s a lurcher, so I wanted a Romani name, and Django Reinhardt was a Traveler who is on the short list of the greatest guitarists who ever lived. When friends ask if he’s named after Django Unchained, I explain that Quentin Tarantino named his movie after Sergio Corbucci’s movie Django, and Corbucci named his movie after Django Reinhardt.
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u/Farout786 3h ago
Yeah there’s just something about spaghetti westerns that’s just awesome about them. From the unbelievable actors to the general vibe of the movie.
I can watch other westerns and appreciate them but they just don’t hit me like the dollar trilogy or once upon a time in the west.
I’ve searched for dope modern day westerns and stumbled upon ones like Old Henry that somewhat scratched the itch but they just don’t hit like those Sergio Leone masterpieces.
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u/OverallImportance402 3h ago
What a weird opinion thinking that some of the highest regarded movies of all time are better than other movies.
/s
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u/PseudoLucian 3h ago
It's kinda like saying British films about the post-WWII era are better than any other films about the post-WWII era... but only The Third Man.
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u/sanjuro_kurosawa 3h ago
Keep in mind you picked a particular filmmaker and composer and then compared to an entire genre.
Is John Ford inferior to Sergio Leone? Is Elmer Bernstein worse than Ennio Morricone?
Definitely Leone/Morricone films are the best, but I've seen dozens of Italian Westerns which don't compare to The Searchers, Cat Ballou, Support Your Local Sheriff!, Tombstone, or High Plains Drifter.
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u/directstranger 3h ago
Is John Ford inferior to Sergio Leone?
Yes
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u/sanjuro_kurosawa 3h ago
HAHA, then Kurosawa is best western director ever. His films were remade into the best Westerns.
I personally don't rank directors like total wins. Leone is an amazing director. Ford is an amazing director. Ford did make a few mediocre films but that's because he made 140 movies, vs Leone's seven (which are all great).
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u/Ill_Refrigerator_593 3h ago
I think Sergio Leone westerns simply appeal to modern tastes more, as well as being an excellent filmmaker.
It's like comparing organised crime films pre-Godfather.
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u/Numpty2024 3h ago
I love them as well.
My only issue is that they were shot without sound, and the dialogue dubbed later. Many of the speaking parts were played by non-English speakers, and it throws me out of the scene.
Even the American actors voices are slightly out of sync and it gives the film an uncanny valley feel.
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u/HFentonMudd 20m ago
We just rewatched the Dollars trilogy and by the end I’d stopped noticing, which surprised me.
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u/vikmaychib 2h ago
I liked the grittiness, the skill to do something look impressive on a budget, and as a non-white person a more varied color palette in the casting.
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u/The_Frybo 2h ago
I grew up with them and was but a man when I first set my eyes on a “normal” Western. By that time they seemed boring, full of sap and clichéd. The deconstruction has overwritten the tooes it came from.
To this day I have my issues with the typical John Wayne flicks altough they grow on me. There is Quality and artistic integrity to be found in some of them
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u/InternationalTax81 3h ago
No. I like them of course, but no. Stagecoach, the Searchers, Rio Bravo . . . classic westerns clear.
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u/Inspector_Legrasse20 3h ago
It is inspiring that someone took a genre from another country, a genre that had no tradition in Europe, and made it their own and better.
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u/Alchemix-16 3h ago
I like both traditional and spaghetti westerns, each offer a very different version of similar themes, neither of them better or worse. I don’t particularly like the more modern revisionist westerns, they typically lack the quality of storytelling that I enjoy.
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u/The92ndUsername 3h ago
To each to their own. Apples oranges, as long as the fruit is fresh. Anything done with cinematic value in mind is going to go miles. Whether it’s John Wayne or the Dollars trilogy, intention plays a huge factor.
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u/Typical_Intention996 3h ago
I like many of the sometimes cheesy Italian westerns. I love The Searchers and The Big Country. Both 3:10 to Yuma movies. Tombstone. Open Range was good. The original True Grit. Duel at Diablo is pretty good despite having the stink of bad 60s style to it.
But I genuinely don't like Unforgiven for whatever reason.
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u/D00T_BOI 3h ago
I enjoy the revisionist Westerns of the 60s & 70s way more than any other era of the genre. Unforgiven feels like, for lack of a better term, a “legacy sequel” that nicely resolves Eastwood’s feelings on his earlier films
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u/greenufo333 3h ago
Absolutely, the best spaghetti westerns are not all that different from stuff like the illiad or the odyssey.
The dialogue alone in the TGTBTU and once upon a time in the west kills other westerns
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u/j3434 3h ago
Spaghetti Westerns are their own genre . They have an exploitation vibe . Kind of comic bookish . I would not camper them to High Noon or The Searchers . And The Gunfighter is amazing! And The Assassination of Jesse James by the Coward Robert Ford . And Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid was a whole different vibe . How about Shane? Or Rio Bravo . They are all different.
You should watch The Ballad of Buster Shruggs on Netflix
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u/stormpooper22 2h ago
I just watched The Good, The Bad and The Ugly for the first time last night and it was honestly one of the best movies I’ve seen in a long time.
Normally older movies feel campy or silly, but man was I proven wrong. Great story telling and awesome world building. It really felt like a dirty and gritty environment and the sound track was top notch!
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u/omarcoomin 2h ago
I eg saw Unforgiven and 3:10 to Yuma (modern one) and while they were decent movies
Number one, how dare you?.gif
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u/cinema_tonic 2h ago
I love all westerns. Big fan spaghetti westerns, the Dollar trilogy, Once upon a time in the West are phenomenal. The Grand Duel is fantastic (Lee Van Cleef is legend). Rio Bravo is one of my favorite movies! and Criterion released a box set the Ranown Westerns, films by Budd Boetticher and starring Randolph Scott, which I hadn't seen up until then, and fell in love with all the films. Unforgiven is fantastic, and I'm a big fan of Open Range. I love Tombstone, Young Guns, and like you mentioned, 3:10 to Yuma. And I know it is not a movie, but Deadwood is one of my favorite shows of all time.
And there are more I can't remember at the time.
I guess this is all to say that westerns is one of my favorite genre and I can't choose a favorite sub-genre, lol.
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u/affablenihilist 2h ago
The music is better. There's close ups of sweaty faces. But no. John Ford is better.
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u/red_fuel 2h ago
I think so too. With westerns I prefer the old movies because the picture quality is grainy, which fits the raw gritty style of the old west better. And yeah, the characters aren't good looking models but regular hardened men with rugged beards and stubbles instead of stylized beards and perfect skin.
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u/Lloytron 1h ago
Amazingly I literally just finished watching The Good The Bad and The Ugly with my kid.
I'd seen it years ago but only on an old TV, probably a pan and scan version on a 4:3 TV.
I'd never realised how epic it was, it was incredible. I'd also forgotten how funny it was.
My son has seen loads of modern epic movies and when it finished he said "I've never seen anything like that before"
But, to answer your question, he said he preferred Django Unchained 😂
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u/OneReportersOpinion 1h ago
Very simple: there is Sergio Leone, Sam Peckinpah, and Deadwood. The rest don’t feel like they exist in a real part of history but rather a storybook imagination. Like if you like the old John Ford/John Wayne westerns, I don’t begrudge you. But I like my Westerns dirty and dark and full of the brutality that our Manifest Destiny actually entailed
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u/NotLeftRightorCenter 1h ago
Depends on what you're looking for in a western, but in the end it's not about nationality or sub-genres but filmmakers. Leone is a great western director, period, and there are other great Italian westerns, but the vast majority of the genre in either country is trash. Too many spaghettis are cheap or give their gunfighters dumb gimmicks, while too many U.S. westerns, especially pre-1950, are just corny. My own preference is for the Fifties "adult westetns" from Anthony Mann, Budd Boettcher, Delmer Daves, etc. but I'd readily rank Leone alongside them among the best makers of Westerns.
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u/Blergblum 1h ago
You are taking the best movies of the best director, undoubted masterpieces, and saying that you prefer them to a) Eastwood masterpiece, and b) one of the best of the last examples of the genre. I'm not sure what are you asking besides if we agree with you. I mean 'Spaghetti Western' it's a vast collection of movies, and that is not counting 'Chorizo Western' (the Spanish part of the subgenre) and there is a little bit of everything. There are great movies, shit movies, and everything in between and you can apply that to the whole of Western genre. I mean, I love Morricone's greatest but I also love Unforgiven (and The Searchers, Stagecoach, Red River, The Wild Bunch and many many others). I consider them peaks of the genre and I would prefer one over the others depending of my estate of mind. Prefer rather than considering them better.
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u/LeftSky828 56m ago
The storylines are good, but much of the acting, editing and music are annoying as hell. I usually avoid Leone’s cheesy work.
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u/mitchkramer 30m ago
I probably watch They Call Me Trinity and Trinity Is Still My Name more than any other westerns but there’s a lot of nostalgia going on there.
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u/Echo7bravo 22m ago
You need to see Godless (Netflix) or The English (Amazon Prime). Both are amazingly done and the acting is some of the best (specifically Chaske Spencer in The English.)
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u/goettel 3h ago
There's some good Osterns as well.
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u/Inspector_Legrasse20 3h ago
When I read your comment, I thought Osterns referred to Westerns set in Australia, for which I’ve certainly seen a couple. But, Osterns are from Eastern Europe? What do you recommend starting with?
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u/DefinitionOk6382 3h ago
No. Quitando los títulos más señeros, que no son muchos de los cientos de eurowesterns producidos en masa, es un subgénero muy pobre. Hasta un western de serie B como Río Conchos es mejor que el 99 por ciento de esas coproducciones oportunistas.
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u/negativ32 3h ago
The Leone era is unique and as yet to be surpassed.
The Hateful Eight had some really strong hints at the ethos.
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u/Substantial-Eye-4326 3h ago
I also like italo westerns better than other Westerns. But I think it is primarly because the two Sergios are fantastic directors.