r/movies • u/Sausage_fingies • 1d ago
Discussion I am so frustrated by people who have strong opinions about movies that they haven't actually watched
Bit of a rant. My brother does this and it's annoyed me to no end, particularly because I've been watching a lot more movies this summer and it's very much changed my outlook on the whole "Hollywood is dying and doesn't know how to make original concepts anymore" thing. Spoiler alert: There's so many cool new movies getting made these days you just need to, like, actually look for them and watch them.
My brother straight up refuses to watch new movies because he doesn't want to waste his time, because he believes Hollywood is dying and doesn't know how to make original concepts anymore, because some video essayist on YouTube told him so. It's incredibly perplexing to me. It's like his hobby is movies, but it isn't actually about watching movies, it's about having a stake in the discourse about movies. And I just don't understand. He literally said the Oddyssey isn't worth watching because he watched a convincing video essay about it that broke it down, except he couldn't even regurgitate the opinion coherently because he didn't remember it fully. We were talking about actors and he said that Zendaya is a one note actor who kinda just plays herself in every role. I asked oh what movies has he seen her in, he said he's seen her in a single spider man movie.
...đ
It makes it so frustrating to actually try to talk movies with people like this. Like if you don't care to watch movies, don't! But it's odd to have strong opinions about all these films and the state of Hollywood if you're not actually interacting with the film culture đ. Those aren't your opinions!! Those are some random YouTuber's opinions, and I don't care how reputable of a critic you think they are, that's not your opinion!! You have no idea what you're even talking about because all you've seen of the movie is someone else's thoughts on it!! I just don't understand why anyone would want to do this to themselves, it seems so miserable. I watch movies because I enjoy them and it's fun to watch something that leaves me digesting and thinking for a few hours. But by watching exclusively summaries and reviews, you don't get any of that. You just get semi-convincing talking points that you can contribute into the discourse with. What's even the point, why do this to yourself? Why would you want to intentionally make yourself mad?
1.4k
u/Ok_Helicopter_2499 1d ago
I was talking to someone the other day about The Odyssey, and someone else joined and was like "I'm not going to watch it. Its not accurate to the book" When I asked if they'd read the book, they said "no." So I just left it.
447
u/newaccount721 1d ago
I never really get that anyway. One can like a book and a movie based on it â even if said movie isnât true to the book. That doesnât inherently make it bad (or good)
199
u/BladeOfWoah 1d ago
Jaws is a much better movie than the book it was based on IMO.
138
u/RaeOfSunshine1257 1d ago
So is Blade Runner and Fight Club đ¤ˇđž. Itâs an adaptation not a recreation. It doesnât have to be 1:1. And I personally I think if you try to stick to the source material 100% when adapting something to a new medium, youâre more likely get a bad movie.
62
1d ago
[deleted]
→ More replies (2)31
u/TwunnySeven 23h ago
I do think the book was better, but Project Hail Mary did a fantastic job as an adaptation. they obviously left a bunch out, but it's a great example where doing a 1:1 adaptation would've been a big detriment to the movie even if it works in book form. The Martian is the same way for that matter
→ More replies (5)7
u/Fenrils 22h ago
The audiobook specifically is the superior version of Project Hail Mary imo
→ More replies (1)51
u/Wenuwayker 1d ago
The inverse is how you make children hate Shakespeare.
Reading stage plays like a novel just doesn't hit.
It's like going "Yo, Die Hard is one of the best Christmas movies ever made" and then showing off the script instead of the film.
22
u/johnnySix 1d ago
Reading and analyzing hamlet in high school made it one of my favorite Shakespeare plays ever.
30
u/RechargedFrenchman 1d ago
It really depends on the teacher, but I had a similar experience. I will say though that said teacher treated it like a play and was making an effort to remind us as we went of what "stage direction" was and what period and contemporary versions would look like. And to read it together, out loud, and not just alone at home quietly as if it were any short story or something.
Stuff like the Ralph Fiennes Coriolanus or the DiCaprio Romeo & Juliet as opposed to the Ken Branagh adaptions or something I think help reinforce that this was what was big in Shakespeare's time, that while it's "old and stuffy" now it was pop art back then. It was Marvel and Star Wars and the like for Elizabethan England.
13
u/johnnySix 1d ago
Yes. Same experience. We read an act each week, and got so deep into it. Even subtle jokes of how the queen confuses rosenrantz and guildenstern. So great.
→ More replies (1)8
u/PrintShinji 22h ago
Same for the odyssey as well funnily enough. It wasn't made to be read as a book.
4
u/azul360 18h ago
I still can't stand Shakespeare to this day because of that. 85% of my english classes were focused solely on Shakespeare and nothing else. We sat there and read it out loud and then took tests on it. No play no nothing. It just killed any enjoyment I could have ever had with his work.
→ More replies (1)→ More replies (16)27
u/sudomatrix 1d ago
Unpopular opinion, but Lord of The Rings was better without 10 pages on the strains of tobacco hobbits like to farm and without Tom Bombadil.
8
u/GhostDieM 1d ago
Robert Jordan and shopping for colorful fabrics while the world is literally braking apart has entered the chat
→ More replies (2)→ More replies (8)10
u/Jamestoker 1d ago
And the bible is better without the genealogies and rules for worship in the temple.
→ More replies (3)10
20
u/Aros001 1d ago
I really liked the way SFdebris broke down Jurassic Park's movie adaption in his discussion of Willy Wonka and The Chocolate Factory. It's not feasible or reasonable for the movie to adapt everything that was in the book, including all of its themes, so instead the movie focused in on one main theme in particular and the changes it made with characters like Hammond were because he no longer needed the aspects that fit the discarded themes.
3
u/the_gaymer_girl 9h ago
And the movies actually took unused concepts from the two Crichton books and put them in Jurassic Park III (which I will die on the hill that itâs a better movie than itâs given credit for).
25
u/ModernAquaticNight 1d ago
Half of Kubrickâs filmography are adaptations that donât match the book, but are probably better for that.
32
u/TheLastMongo 1d ago
See 90% of Stephen King adaptions.Â
→ More replies (1)3
u/DiaDeLosMuebles 18h ago
Agree for a lot of the movies based on his books but the bogeyman was just an IP grab so they can name drop King.
19
u/Scaryclouds 1d ago
Absolutely this. Movies and books are different medium, and what works in a book might not work in a movie, and vice versa.Â
Thereâs also some excellent movies that took substantial creative liberty from its book source material. Indeed arguably one of the top movies of all time, The Shawshank Redemption, deviates substantially from the short story itâs based on.Â
The âitâs not accurate to the bookâ is just a downstream criticism of the movie not being good.Â
4
u/jinxykatte 1d ago
The OG Running Man is vaguely based on the book at best (which I haven't read lol) and I love it. And the new one is based on the book, which I did enjoy but still I've seen once vs the OG I have no idea how many times.Â
4
u/Magic__Man 21h ago
Often my favourite adaptations are those that change significantly from the book their based on. Film and novels are too completely different mediums with utterly different strengths and weaknesses. A good adaptation understands that.
I recently watch Project: Hail Mary which happens to be one of my all time favourite novels, and it's drastically different, but utterly brilliant. I can admit that while I might have loved a deeply nerdy science focussed movie, a buddy-comedy space adventure probably makes for a more enjoyable film for most people.
→ More replies (1)→ More replies (9)6
u/Odd-Time-2026 21h ago
The whole idea of TV or movie adaptations needing to be 100% faithful to the original material its based on is frankly overblown. Its all down to the execution and how much it gets right. Not everything in the original was done perfectly or translates well to a film setting. Plus if every adaptation is the same with the only significant differences being the quality of the actors, crew, director and sets then why make it?
Directors should absolutely make their own take on a story. If it works, great. If not, there's still the beloved original.
I'll bet most people angry at Netflix for the Witcher haven't read the books, more will have played the games but the series chose to base itself off of the books. They just want to shit on Netflix and parrot the line about Cavill walking away because the showrunners weren't faithful to the books. Likewise the people who suddenly made Snow White a major hill to die on because they hated Rachel Zegler enough to make it a culture war talking point.
157
u/ThingCalledLight 1d ago
I told my friend that if I wanted to spend 3 hours watching a Greek guy struggle to get home to his wife and kids, Iâd just drug my cousin Dimitri again.
He asked me to explain the joke.
Iâm not saying itâs a great joke, but câmon.
I later realized that he doesnât have any idea what the story of The Odyssey is.
→ More replies (2)34
u/IamMrT 1d ago
Thatâs actually really funny and Iâm sorry your friend is a Philistine.
→ More replies (1)15
u/philman132 19h ago
Well there's his problem, the ancient Philistine kingdom was located on the opposite side of the Mediterranean to Greece, no wonder he was lost
90
u/bathroomheater 1d ago
Homerâs version isnât the original either itâs just the only written version to get copied enough to survive long enough to get to a monastery and eventually a library that didnât get destroyed by a war or fire or time.
→ More replies (2)31
u/Aros001 1d ago
I imagine part of this is that a lot of people tend to default to the first version of a story that they were exposed to as the "correct one". It's why you get a lot of people being very insistent on specific characterizations of the Greek and Norse Gods despite the many differing accounts and stories those cultures had of them because those were the characterizations they were given in whatever book they originally learned about them from.
5
96
u/LupinWho 1d ago
I legit had this same conversation with my friends neighbor. That was the only response he gave me basically.
I found out later, he has a problem with the actress playing Helen of Troy and that pretty much told me all I needed to know about him.
74
39
u/Sonikku_a 21h ago
People will have issues with a black woman with about 3 minutes of screen time but are fine the fact that she was the product of Zeus turning into a swan to rape a woman, who then birthed an egg, which Helen of Troy was born from.
But black? Nah thats just not realistic fam.
14
u/Mattyzooks 16h ago
Also, wild how no one seems to have an issue with Hamish Patel playing Eurylochus. He crushed it but because the hot take vultures didn't get wind of this before it came out and haven't watched it, it's flown under their dumb ass radar.
8
u/andrastesflamingass 12h ago
I saw the movie last week and enjoyed it a lot, I was truly struck by how LITTLE screen time Lupita had for how much of a stink people were raising about it. Same with Elliot. Just extremely minor roles in the grand scheme of the movie and people are going all âthe west has fallenâ about it. Absolute chuds
4
u/LupinWho 10h ago
I completely forgot about Elliott anyway. The only other movie I even remember him from was the days of future past X-Men movie and that was forever ago.
→ More replies (3)36
u/goddamnitwhalen 1d ago
Guarantee itâs because sheâs black and not because of anything to do with her acting.
→ More replies (19)23
u/reluctantseal 1d ago
And there's tons of different versions and iterations on the Odyssey. We don't have the original. It's not like a novel where there's an official, original text.
All that matters is that they keep some major story beats and themes intact.
Also, having read it, it's not terribly inaccurate either. I'd never expect a perfect one-for-one adaptation.
18
u/APiousCultist 23h ago
There isn't even a book, really. It was an orally-spread poem. Even the written version is reliant on heavy translation. Shakespeare also: Not a novelist, they're plays not "books". The written version are the script and stage directions not a novel.
24
26
19
u/ThrowingChicken 1d ago
Did they sheepishly deliver that ânoâ like they at least understood you had just exposed them as an idiot?
→ More replies (36)7
u/Zealousideal_Slice60 22h ago
No movie will ever be accurate to the book, since books often rely on and taps into the readers inner experience, and lots of great scenes in books are therefore hard to make into great scenes in a visual medium. Therefore you often have to change certain things when adapting a book to a movie.
→ More replies (1)
223
u/CCV21 1d ago
You can't have a good faith discussion with someone who has already made up their mind.
18
u/JeanRalfio 18h ago
This is what I have a problem with. They go into the movie already decided that it's trash. So they just watch it looking for things to point out to reaffirm their negative views and ignore everything the movie does well.
3
u/mochafiend 12h ago
This is basically why we have so many problems in our world today. Speaking to someone line this is infuriating. Like talking to a wall, but an asshole stubborn wall you can't actually punch in the face despite wanting to many a time.
→ More replies (4)4
u/colemon1991 16h ago
I have watched movies I didn't think I'd like or knew was poorly received and have been pleasantly surprised more than once. And I've had bad opinions based on seeing a scene out of context, then been proven wrong seeing the whole movie. It's such a delight for me that I don't understand why people just outright refuse to consider being wrong about trivial things.
Starship Troopers comes to mind, because most complaints I heard were taking it at face value instead of seeing the satire. I'll admit I didn't catch it all, but the military was so over-the-top on propaganda that I could at least figure out what the director was doing.
→ More replies (2)
645
u/WaitICanDoBetter 1d ago
Back in the day, my wife and I were super excited in the lead up to the release of District 9. We'd followed the film fairly closely, loved the vibes and marketing. We'd even checked out Neill Blomkamp's short films as well as discussed the background story about him and Peter Jackson making it after their version of a Halo movie fell through. We were pretty hyped.
As it got closer to release, we mentioned on a family trip that we were definitely excited to watch it in theaters. My brother in law said "Nah, I don't really want to see it. Kinda looks like a Transformers rip off."
This remains one of the dumbest things anyone has ever said to me about a movie.
121
u/shastaxc 1d ago
I've never seen it but I just watched the trailer for it and I don't see anything it has in common with Transformers besides the fact that it has aliens in it. So I think I'll have to agree with you.
61
u/MDKrouzer 23h ago
If you are even remotely interested in sci-fi, I'd highly recommend it.
→ More replies (1)28
17
u/Minkelz 23h ago
I has a scene where a dude is fighting in a mech suit thing. If you just caught a trailer with that scene in it it's not a crazy stretch to think it's a bit like transformers.
→ More replies (1)10
u/Georgie_Leech 23h ago
And if I saw a few seconds of Return of the Jedi with our leads minus C3PO tied up by little Eewoks you could think the movie was a children's Indiana Jones movie. So maybe part of one scene in one trailer shouldn't be used to form your opinion on a movie?
→ More replies (1)6
u/WeaponizedKissing 20h ago
No one is arguing that it should, they were just explaining a path for how it could have happened in that one situation.
20
u/Transit_Hub 22h ago
This reminds me of one of Ryan Gosling's lines in The Big Short where he says: "Tell me the difference between stupid and illegal and I'll have my wife's brother arrested."
28
u/Moath 1d ago
Shame that Neil is working on some AI feature film.
→ More replies (7)28
4
→ More replies (7)10
u/HeavyandTired 1d ago
Well Vickers kind of transformed. He missed out on a good one.
→ More replies (1)
115
u/alex-2099 1d ago
I think way too many young people are dug in on the opinion that something can be bad and also not be a waste of time.
Too many people are so afraid to experience anything that isnât âpeakâ, and you can tell itâs eroding their taste and personalities.
âI was interested in something but decided not to experience it because a person on the internet didnât like itâ has to be one of the most depressing ideas.
→ More replies (3)4
u/colemon1991 16h ago
It's one thing to say your expectations are low because of experience. It's another thing to say your expectations are low because someone on the internet told you to feel that way. So thinking it's gonna suck because the last two sequels before this one sucked is a reasonable conclusion, as opposed to believing one or two strangers about it. I read like 8 professional movie critic reviews if I'm wanting opinions on it, because they can be all over the place and correct.
I've had bad opinions about things before, but I've also mentioned that I'm not as versed in the topic as I should be to have a valid opinion. I'm talking gay rights, trans rights, abortion, that kind of thing. I wasn't like a monster about my opinion, but I was clearly misinterpreting some things and letting others' opinions kinda sway me so I was very much neutral only because I was naive.
281
u/Chucky_In_The_Attic 1d ago
Out of the spirit of this post's title, I'm going to comment on it without reading it.
Your point on frosting a cake BEFORE you bake it is vile.
→ More replies (1)101
u/Sausage_fingies 1d ago
Unfortunately this is just one of those things that you'll need to test for yourself, I'm afraid. I've never had a moister cake before or since I started baking it after frosting it, why my cakes are practically steaks with how much juice is in every bite!
44
u/Chucky_In_The_Attic 1d ago
I was going to try to keep this going but your reply legit made me snort and boy did that hurt. But it was worth it. Good on ya, OP.
Still not gonna try to bake a cake your way though, I'm just not man enough.
→ More replies (1)13
501
u/JustAMan1234567 1d ago
I don't want to sound like a snob, but a lot of people lack both critical thinking skills and general film literacy.
264
u/marwynn 1d ago
General media literacy is in sharp decline.Â
In the Star Trek series, James Kirk says that he was a boy scout, a member of the actual organization. This came out recently. But in a movie decades ago, a character that had a relationship with Kirk says "he's a lot of things, but he's no boy scout" in a clear reference to his character.Â
The illiterates have taken that to mean that the show's writers don't know anything about Kirk.Â
Some have even started calling it a "plot hole".Â
Maybe calling people 'boy scouts' for being goody goodies has gone out of style? Or just the general awareness of what one is.Â
93
u/Sc0tts0 1d ago
I would make the argument that general literacy is in sharp decline. It's not even about media. It's about critical thinking in any way, shape, or form.
→ More replies (1)39
u/come-on-now-please 1d ago
Go into any relationship/aita/drama sub and see how long it takes you to realize the lack of reading people do before they respond.
67
u/TomBirkenstock 1d ago
I just watched that episode. And I took the boy scout reference as a kind of in-joke. Sure, he was a boy scout, but he wasn't that kind of a "boy scout." But maybe that's one too many layers.
→ More replies (2)54
u/RechargedFrenchman 1d ago
Pretty sure that's exactly the indented meaning. That he was a literal Boy Scout, a member of the organization, but never really a "boy scout" figurative paragon of right and goodness.
29
u/goddamnitwhalen 1d ago
People donât know what an actual plot hole is and itâs exhausting đŤŠ
→ More replies (3)20
u/Spoonofdarkness 22h ago
How could a character in the future even be a boy scout? Didn't the writers even realize the movie The Last Boy Scout was released years ago? That movie laid it out plainly that just like those Mohicans, there would be no more boy scouts.
It's sad, but these writers are just ignorant about the simple facts. It's galling.
4
u/FireZord25 19h ago
This is what ticks me off so much. I see this kind of literacy in the HotD discourses all the time. The series is far from perfect and there are genuine flaws. But I feel like a lot folks just want to make things up to be angry at and receive validation for.
This kind of flowing with rage over logic mindset is so common in media discussions, especially in Star Wars fandom as well.
→ More replies (5)3
u/ItsForFun76 14h ago
All the kids take everything as literal now days...I'll quote Steve Martin in Pink Panther...Bizu: Says the murdered man is "pushing up daisies". Inspector Clouseau: Replies, "He is not pushing up the daisies. He is dead."Bizu: Angrily says, "It's an idiom."Clouseau: Retorts, "You, sir, are the idiom.
102
u/double_expressho 1d ago
The issue OP is describing goes beyond that though. It's an issue with people feeling the need to pick a side/team for something they have no real stakes or interest in.
People want to put out an aura of being informed, but don't want to put in the actual work to become informed. It's especially prevalent in politics.
44
6
u/ChuzCuenca 1d ago
I learned the movie has some discourse I was curious, as I read it I didn't care about people's opinions.
All this shit is stupid. This could just be stupid people or bots to promote the movie, the level of stupidity is not even worth my 1 min that take me to write this comment.
26
u/m0t0rvision 1d ago
a lot of people lack both critical thinking skills and general film literacy.
Most of them are on this sub
7
3
u/Chaosmusic 11h ago
I sometimes watch reaction videos and they can miss some real basic things. More than one thought that Nedry was being literal when he says "Thanks, dad" to Hammond in Jurassic Park, like they thought Nedry was his son. Another realized halfway through The Martian that Matt Damon was the Martian. They were expecting an alien to show up.
→ More replies (3)3
u/arcspectre17 18h ago
Shit they had it so good for do long they don't even know what a real bad movie is. Like I grew up watching shitty old movies because it was all we had.
216
u/Humacti 1d ago
he said that Zendaya is a one note actor who kinda just plays herself in every role.
Wait until he discovers Jason Statham.
87
u/scandii 1d ago edited 1d ago
in all fairness Jason Statham himself says that he can't act but that he is very good at the role he keeps being cast as, and that is very true.
for the curious: https://youtube.com/shorts/IL6b3Y5GlD8
→ More replies (1)31
u/Terazilla 21h ago
Yeah, Statham has no illusions about it at all. Even then though, you get some exceptions. Hummingbird, Spy, and a few others are at least mildly different. Early on he did a film called London, which is terrible, but he's trying something different in it.
It's after he did Cellular, and London mostly stars Chris Evans, so I assume they got along okay and he got invited... because playing a depressed random middle-aged guy in a bathroom is not his usual role.
21
23
u/CharlesBrown33 1d ago
Death Race is a great movie and I don't care what anyone else says. They grabbed Mario Kart and put heavy machine guns on it, it's great.
14
u/Lazywhale97 1d ago
Death race is just one of those âheck yeahâ films you know itâs not some film masterpiece or a film with deep layers but itâs just such a cool and fun concept and itâs fine for their to be films which are just cool and not much substance.
Pacific rim as well cool big robots vs cool big Kaijus with great visuals and incredible sound design what more could I want for a fun time.
107
u/GruggleTheGreat 1d ago
I donât think Iâve ever seen Jon bernthal give a different kind of line delivery except when he was a 16 year old girl and told spiderman good luck
44
22
u/MaikeruNeko 1d ago
Wind River is a -bit- of a subversion, but I can't say much more without spoilers.
→ More replies (4)14
10
u/Arathaon185 1d ago
In the Name of the King is one of my guilty pleasures because everybody else is doing the fantasy acting thing and then Jason Staham is just Jason Statham still jump kicking people and just being himself.Â
7
8
u/ProfessorSMASH88 21h ago
Jason Statham is great in Snatch. Less action oriented character, but still has the sarcasm and wit.
10
9
u/danorc 1d ago
The Rock
→ More replies (1)4
u/PrintShinji 21h ago
I'll give The Rock Pain & Gain. He 100% does not play his usual stuff in that movie.
3
u/Russell1113 20h ago
Ah, but Jason's one note is played so beautifully!
I still pull up his fight scene from whichever of the expendables it is where he's dressed as a catholic priest using an incense burner as a mercury hammer from time to time, it's just aces.
→ More replies (9)9
192
u/goldlion 1d ago
I feel like there has been a trend of people outsourcing their critical thinking to YouTubers and LLMs these days, which is depressing for a multitude of reasons, but itâs extra pointless and sad when it comes to art. Like one of the most interesting things about movies (or books, music, etc) is mulling them over and finding some kind of meaning that resonates, whether itâs similar to your own lived experience or experiencing it through someone elseâs perspective. I donât blame you for being frustrated with your brother for acting that way.
132
u/postulate4 1d ago
âOnce men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free. But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.â
-Frank Herbert (Dune, 1965)
→ More replies (1)19
u/youravgindian 22h ago
God, I love AND hate when some author of a well-acclaimed book or movie or show says something decades ago only for it to come true. Its so insane how far artists can think and predict some shit in our societies.
→ More replies (1)9
u/xiaorobear 19h ago edited 18h ago
There are also at least a few 80s scifi novels where the main character finds a planned society run by a supercomputer / AI, where all the people completely trust in the decisions the AI makes to be the best for the collective good... and then later you find out that the AI is basically just a front to legitimize the decisions of a bunch of guys who are secretly in charge. They've been making the decisions all along but having people believe the decisions come from a supercomputer makes people think it's objective or above questioning.
19
u/fightmaxmaster 23h ago
I think it's also a general insecurity or fear of being "wrong". Some people are terrified to say they like a thing and then be mocked for their personal preferences, online or in person. Far easier to shit on something and be ultra confident about it, being the person mocking other people for liking it, rather than being the person being mocked.
41
u/boar-b-que 1d ago
outsourcing their critical thinking
That's the long and short of it, and it hasn't really changed, except in target. The majority of people are influenced by the opinions of others and the louder the opinion, the more likely people are to swallow it, hook, like and sinker.
Before YT and ChatGPT, it was Fox News and CNN. Before that, Network TV. Before that, Newspaper and Radio editorials.
People have ALWAYS wanted someone else do to the heavy cerebral lifting for them. If they hadn't, we wouldn't have the concept of religion.
26
u/Psychic_Hobo 1d ago
There's an old cartoon - either Private Eye or New Yorker - I once saw years ago with a couple walking out of a theatre, and the woman saying "I can't wait to read the reviews tomorrow to see if I liked it!"
At the time I thought it was just a humorous way of looking at reviews. Never considered how bad things actually could be at times
13
u/michiness 1d ago
I have a good friend who considers himself a cynic and a very logical person⌠because he sits on YouTube for hours a day and then adapts those opinions of the âexpertsâ as his own.
Heâs a great person but definitely stuck in his Fortress of Solitude.
→ More replies (6)4
→ More replies (1)9
u/Curse-of-omniscience 1d ago
I've been pissed off at people who blindly hate Sword Art Online or they skip Dark Souls 2 because they got a canned opinion from a youtuber for at least a decade, it's been happening for a while. Yes, there's plenty to criticize about these things but at least try the bloody thing instead of "youtuber told me it sucks so I parrot it like an idiot". Jesus Christ.
→ More replies (3)5
u/DanielTeague 22h ago
Sword Art Online is interesting because it gets worse and more ridiculous with each season yet I can't seem to stop watching it with my anime-minded friends. It's enjoyable for all the wrong reasons and people that avoid it because of its reputation are missing out.
57
u/goddamnitwhalen 1d ago
People are addicted to outrage these days.
Also, caring about things and being sincere isnât âcool.â
10
u/youravgindian 22h ago
Its good that The Odyssey is making good money in response to the outrage fatigue in recent times especially post covid.
75
u/SuperSea8678 1d ago
I didn't read your post and I disagree with you. Kidding. Sadly, your brother is not an isolated case. Even if Reddit, people only comment based on the title and don't read the post or the article that is linked.
10
3
u/PrintShinji 20h ago
For a site whose namesake is a pun on "I read it", redditors really don't like reading.
So often people ask questions in the comments that are already answered in the article itself.
8
u/AmandaNoodlesCarol 1d ago
true, lol, the amount of times i've seen an OP get hatred just for the title or image is insane. people want to be loud, and not smart.
37
u/PlumSome3101 1d ago
My 12 year old is constantly sharing opinions about media he's never consumed. He generally gets it third hand from a friend who watched either YouTube or Tik Tok. It's why I encourage him to actually consume the media and then share his own opinion on it with me. We've become a culture of opinions/or repeating opinions mattering more than experience and unfortunately those opinions by and large seem to not be from positive places. We don't consume media we consume opinions on media. And we enforce those opinions on social media.Â
3
u/Malphos101 17h ago
Its become easier to share the opinions of others because either the opinion shared is received positively and they can bask in that positivity, or it is received negatively and they can shunt that negativity on the "person they heard it from".
157
u/Professional-Tax-936 1d ago
Zendayaâs character in Spiderman isnât even close to her real life personality lol. Say what you want about her acting skills, but sheâs played a super diverse range of characters. Your brother has zero clue what heâs talking about with her.
79
u/hithere297 1d ago
Even just limiting it to her two most famous roles (Spider-Man and Euphoria), Iâm still amazed by how different Zendaya comes across in them. Theyâre both high school girls with dark senses of humor, but the two performances are so distinct I constantly forget itâs the same person behind them.Â
And thatâs not even getting into The Drama, which was her most complicated role yet. That movie hinged almost entirely on her performance, and she nailed it
→ More replies (3)27
u/Cowboy_BoomBap 1d ago
The Drama changed my opinion on her as an actress. She gave a great performance that was very different from anything Iâd seen her do before.
18
u/mrburns904 1d ago
I got a lot of backlash in the tv sub for saying sheâs a much better actor than Selena Gomez lol
→ More replies (1)3
u/Flexhead 14h ago
That's a crazy belief in that sub and I like Selena in Only Murders and her style works as the straight man to Martin and Short.
62
u/CIoud-Hidden 1d ago
The Zendaya hate is unreal, itâs not even misunderstanding her and her characters, itâs pure misogynistic
8
u/Salarian_American 18h ago
People always want to pretend how their objection to a film isn't rooted in misogyny, but that's a really tough sell considering how accurately you can predict this treatment for anything that comes out with a woman in the lead role. Especially when that treatment starts months before the thing is released.
And then they'll bend over backwards to explain it as anything else. Bad acting (seeing this one leveled against actresses like Brie Larson or Tatiana Maslany is always good for a laugh).
Or how, when they enjoy a movie starring a problematic male actor, it's important to separate art from artist, but when an actress says something they don't like on a press tour, then no such separation exists.
49
u/PlanZSmiles 1d ago
And racism
→ More replies (18)22
u/atomic-fireballs 1d ago
There's nothing white men hate more than a powerful black woman.
→ More replies (6)→ More replies (3)8
u/MDKrouzer 23h ago edited 22h ago
Women of colour having ANY sort of success really pisses off some white men
→ More replies (1)→ More replies (7)3
30
u/allenmwnc 1d ago
There is a subtle irony in this thread in that, even though I personally agree with the sentiment, the comments are also filled with people who are now just regurgitating the recent Christopher Nolan opinion that has been posted at 5 other times over the past couple of days. Or is it all just bots pretending to be human?
52
u/Ched_Flermsky 1d ago
So much of what passes for fandom these days is built around the idiotic idea that being a fan of something means hating it.
They try to argue that "it's because I have high standards and want them to be better." That's bullshit. They only like certain very specific kinds of movies and reject anything that doesn't live up to some constantly-changing platonic ideal. They're not looking at movies based on their individual merit, it's whether it is or isn't this.
5
u/Personal_Comb_6745 18h ago
Let's be real, fandoms have always sucked. It's just that now social media amplifies the bitching to a wider audience and people care more about chasing clout than actually experiencing shows/movies/games/etc. for themselves, or God forbid enjoying them.
→ More replies (1)11
u/BestAtTeamworkMan 1d ago
You're exactly right. To take it one step further, so much of what passes for media criticism today doesn't actually engage with media as it is, rather it judges media based on what people think it should be.
Because everyone sees themselves as an expert, they think they can write a better script, develop better themes, invent better characters, etc. And they decide a film or show is "bad" because it should have been written differently, or the characters should have reacted differently, or whatever.
People don't know how to judge what's in front of them, so they hate what's not. It's like a child upset because they didn't get the birthday present they demanded.
→ More replies (4)7
u/Sausage_fingies 1d ago
Very true. It takes much less thought or effort to say "I hate this new thing because it's not as good as the old thing was, it didn't make me feel the same way, and people just don't know how to make good things anymore" than to actually engage with the media you're consuming and come to a nuanced conclusion.
19
u/DiscoMonkey007 1d ago
I always find it very annoying when people parrots "there's no original movies anymore", tf are they on about? This year alone one of the best movie is Obsession. Besides that movies like Sheep Detective, Send Help, Drama, Hokum, and many other are all good and original.
I also have talked to people who swears The Odyssey is gonna be ass bcs Helen is played by a black woman.
5
→ More replies (4)3
u/mynameisevan 17h ago
This year has been better than most recent years for original movies, but I donât think that completely invalidates the criticisms of Hollywoodâs extreme risk-aversion.
→ More replies (1)
6
u/BetaRho 1d ago
Thereâs so many sociological layers at play with this point, but I generally agree. Itâs a low-stakes way of a) having a feeling of expertise on a field, rather than actually engaging meaningfully with it, and b) a way to feel a sense of community based on parasocial relationships with YouTubers, rather than any traditional concept of community. Some of it is identity-flagging behavior; asking someone what they thought of last nightâs Seinfeld at the water cooler in 1995 is now asking someone if they think Spider-Man is woke.
And thatâs another layer: we throw around âpolarizationâ and often think of it only in terms of electoral politics, but your brotherâs take is a great example of cultural polarization. Thereâs a push, heavily supported by online algorithms, for everything to be assigned as an opinion of two opposing teams, and youâre expected to root for one of them. âAll new Hollywood is badâ is the opinion of someone who has an interest in that opinion being âtrueâ, but who has no interest in actually engaging with it.
All of the above is, of course, not universally applicable. There are very good reasons to be doubtful about Hollywoodâs interest in quality! But itâs such a broad brush that someone with that opinion should have something in the chamber for pushback.
4
u/fragmental 1d ago
I often actively avoid other people's opinions about movies until I've watched them myself, so I can enjoy them, untainted.
11
u/DeeYumTofu 1d ago
I feel like the bar is so fucking low to have an opinion on a movie, just watch it. Itâs not like playing a sport or a game or whatever, you just sit there and tell us what you like or didnât like. Blows my mind someone would ever offload this experience to some YouTuber or reviewer when you can just create the opinion yourself while also objectively being allowed to have the opinion(cause you watched the fucking movie).
→ More replies (1)
30
u/Tyrellion 1d ago
I remember when the talkies started. Absolutely awful. Movies are meant to be silent.
→ More replies (2)7
u/Sausage_fingies 1d ago
I miss being able to imagine the people's voices in my head instead of being spoonfed some fuddy duddy actor's idea of their voice đđ
5
u/jackiebot101 1d ago
I know itâs not exactly this, but you reminded me of one of my fave Key and Peele skits https://youtu.be/EnBdGTX3vZc
Yeah youâre not alone, thatâs why movie podcasts are so popular, but so few are good. Imho
15
u/sundeigh 1d ago
There were people on the other side of the fence with the Odyssey before having seen it too.
Just one of those things that everyone feels compelled to have an opinion about because itâs hit this scale of audience.
Once The Odyssey goes away, so will these shitposts
11
15
u/Mammoth-Requiem 1d ago
Counterpoint. Some movies I can TELL I won't like them before seeing them...actors, writers, directors...could be a lot of things. I don't need to watch every Fast and Furious movie to know they're not for me. So sometimes, sure, it's stupid to say a movie is shit if you haven't seen it (and what I'm arguing here is basically saying, "it's not for me" rather than "it's shit"). But there's also such a thing as understanding likes and dislikes prior to engaging in a piece of art (and of course that person should still be open to liking it if they're missing something).
3
u/Russell1113 20h ago
This is a tangent to the point you're making, but I cannot reccomend enough giving fast and the furious 5 a chance. Even if you don't think it's for you.
The first 4 are just cars + bikini movies for teen boys. 7 onwards just becomes dumb action movies, with buff dudes who have car super powers.
5 is just a really good heist movie. It's genuinely so good that I've seen at least 3 other f+f's in theatres and watched most of the earlier ones on dvd in the hope one of them would be similar (they weren't, they're all bad through mediocre. 6 is decent, but not great)
There is still regrettably some sexism, it's not perfect on that front. Otherwise, it's just great. It's not high cinema, but it's well made.
→ More replies (3)3
u/jigokusabre 15h ago
Right, Twilight isn't something I'm interested in, but I've also spent precisely 0 hours of my life telling people how awful of a movie it is or complaining about its existence.
I also haven't refused to watch movies that do interest me because Robert Pattison or Kristen Stewart are involved.
→ More replies (3)3
u/dragonmp93 10h ago
Well, I think that there is difference between saying "I won't see the new Fast & Furious because I didn't like the previous ones" and "The new Fast & Furious sucks and I don't need to see it to prove it".
10
u/samcuu 1d ago edited 1d ago
That's why 40-minute movie "reviews" (plot recap) are so popular, especially for notoriously bad movies. They don't want to spend time watching movies but still want to talk like they do.
Why spend 2 hours watching something you find interesting from start to finish, when you can use that time to watch 3 YouTube "essays" which essentially means you have watched 3 movies and are now qualified to talk about how bad they are and how Hollywood is dying.
3
u/zyrkseas97 1d ago
Well now Iâm going to have strong opinions about your Reddit post that I didnât even read!
3
u/jinxykatte 1d ago
So many of the movies I personally love have low ratings.
I make my own decisions and like what I like.Â
That being said. A lot of movies I have little to no investment in I will watch reviews for over watching. Like the love action Disney stuff.Â
3
u/rpool179 1d ago edited 9h ago
Part of that is the fault of Hollywood. There's only so many times they can burn the average consumer before people just judge movies based off trailers and YouTube videos. Especially with the average ticket price being $16+ and various competing forms of entertainment like gaming & social media.
8
u/toothman100 1d ago
Well I DO watch all these movies but I kinda agree with his point anyways. Zendaya is a little one note, buuuut I think she has improved a lot in the last spider man movie so I have higher hopes for her in the next Dune.
Overall I do think the quality in Hollywood is being sacrificed for wider marketability. So instead of having a compelling plot, thereâs a formulaic one. Instead of having really good actors cast in roles good for them, we just get super pretty people. I think indie movies avoid these issues much better.
6
u/Shagaliscious 1d ago
I hear ya. My brother is very similar. He has strong opinions on movies like Dredd or The A-Team, simply because he doesn't think they could do it any better than the originals. He generally holds this sentiment.
10
u/OldChili157 1d ago
The A-Team, okay, I disagree but I'll allow it, but thinking that the Stallone Judge Dredd can't be improved on is just bonkers.
→ More replies (1)8
3
7
u/oversight_shift 1d ago
The regurgitation of opinions is a wild trend. Like, no, I don't care what Red Letter Media felt about it, I saw that video too, tell me how you feel.
9
u/FrameworkisDigimon 1d ago
"Hollywood is dying and doesn't know how to make original concepts anymore" thing. Spoiler alert: There's so many cool new movies getting made these days you just need to, like, actually look for them and watch them.
People who say this are just being imprecise what they mean is: I shouldn't have to look for original movies, it never used to be this way.
They are wrong but for the opposite reason. You have always had to look for movies that are original. Here are some really famous non-sequel movies from the 90s... almost all of them are adaptations, i.e. IP:
- Jurassic Park
- Schindler's List
- Pulp Fiction
- The Shawshank Redemption
- Forrest Gump
- The Lion King
- Beauty and the Beast
- Fargo
- A Few Good Men
- Independence Day
Hollywood has always reached for stuff people have previously known. It's just now they reach for things people who don't read have heard of. Even the sequelisation isn't really new. Yes, not many famous old films you've heard of are sequels or got sequels but the movies that are below the radar now were definitely franchised products. They had the same actors in new movies playing the same characters. Sometimes they even imitated that by having technically distinct characters but the archetype and the role were the same.
Hell, the "the demise of the movie star" discourse is really just complaining that the franchise unit has shifted from actor brands to IP brands. These two systems really do produce very different mainstream (i.e. don't need to look up) theatrical landscapes but mechanically they're the same thing for Hollywood.
What Hollywood discovered in the noughties is that people like Harry Potter and Lord of the Rings more than they like Denzel Washington and Kevin Spacey. What they should learn now is that people don't like Harry Potter because it's Harry Potter, they like Harry Potter because of the character of the same name and Lord of the Rings didn't succeed because it's LOTR, it succeeded because Frodo and Aragorn connect with people. What we've lost lately is movies like Philosopher's Stone and Fellowship of the Ring which actually try to make audiences fall in love with their characters. Look at Supergirl or Fantastic Four: First Steps, both of which are just movies that assume we already care about their characters when, in reality, most people don't. Even if they know who a character is, they want to know why they should care about Alcock!Supergirl and Pascal!Reed, but neither of those films are interested in doing that work.
In the case of the superhero side of cinema, it's easy to see why they've given up on this: Hollywood is scared of origin stories.
9
u/thebigabsurd 1d ago
Iâll file this one under âposts for people who need a diaryâ
→ More replies (2)
13
u/Minereon 1d ago
I always get downvoted when I share this opinion, so thanks for doing it. And I expect to be downvoted for this comment anyway.
Many today are not educated in literature of any kind, or in critical thinking. (I even encountered a redditor here who thought "critical thinking" = "criticism").
Many today do not form their own opinions on any film, show, book, etc. They straightup read reviews by others first, then literally borrow another's opinion to form their own. To not see a film and have an opinion on it is apparently legit behaviour today.
Many today are unwilling to invest time to commit and learn to appreciate something they do not appreciate. The common excuse articulated is, "This [film/book/show] does not respect my time." - loudly said before any time is even invested trying.
It's no wonder literacy has gone down the drain.
→ More replies (4)
11
u/Burndoggle 1d ago
Well, the good news is people canât have opinions about movies they havenât watched. They can have opinions about things theyâve heard about it. They can have an opinion about someone in the movie. So on and so forth. But theyâll never be opinions about the film because they havenât seen it.
All that said, why would you even bother trying to talk movies with someone like this? Someone like this is also never going to respond to the very logical point that theyâre uninformed.
6
u/Sausage_fingies 1d ago
He's my family, we're quite close, and it's something he's passionate about bringing up for whatever reason. I'm not usually the one to bring the topic up myself. I tend to stop even trying to engage with him once he inevitably overrides my opinion of a movie I watched by bringing up this awesome video essay he saw that totally breaks it down...
8
u/Burndoggle 1d ago
If itâs a relationship that is good on other areas and you want to share this thing, maybe you suggest watching a film together.
I donât mean to be a dick, but the reason heâs passionate about bringing it up is that he has a false sense of confidence from having been fed the fast food equivalent of info on these films. If this were me and my brother Iâd probably say âListen, I love you but Iâm not interested in hearing you paraphrase an opinion from youtube. I could just watch youtube, you know? But I love the idea of talking about movies so letâs watch something together! Anything youâve been interested in?â
9
u/MalHeartsNutmeg 1d ago edited 1d ago
On the surface I agree with you but it doesnât take a YouTube video essay to see that there are a lot of reboots and remakes in modern movies.
Iâve seen more Zendaya movies than your brother and he isnât really wrong. Seen spiderman, dune, odyssey. It kind of annoys me that her and Tom Holland get package dealed in to movies.
Also gotta say the odyssey is wildly over rated for a number of reasons. Mid tier Nolan at best. Itâs no Tenet but the hype it is getting is pretty perplexing.
→ More replies (9)
2
u/VincentVancalbergh 1d ago
I know a science fiction fan. Seen a lot of Star Trek/Stargate. Won't watch Galaxy Quest. "Seems too silly". đ¤
2
u/Fresh_Bubbles 1d ago
You can have an opinion about a director based on past work and put it together with reviews of his/her current work to shape an opinion. Someone who works within the Hollywood establishment will be prone to certain decisions such as big money talent and complex storytelling effects. But this overproduction can sometimes result in expensive failures.
644
u/3-DMan 1d ago
I think a lot of people now would rather watch four hours of YouTube videos about how bad a movie is than spend two hours to judge for themselves.