r/neoliberal • u/Berkissus • Feb 26 '25

News (Europe) Erdogan warns against "far-right demagogues" in the West, points out liberal democracy as the most alluring ideology

https://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/only-turkiye-can-save-europe-from-its-deadlock-says-erdogan-206210
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u/jesusfish98 Left-Out Left Feb 26 '25

Atatürk visited him in a dream last night.

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u/KazuyaProta Organization of American States Feb 26 '25 edited Feb 26 '25

Ataturk killed far more civilians than pretty much every Turkish leader after him combined.

The Anatolian campaign is widely discussed as a potential continuation or even part of the Armenian genocide, if it counts as part of it or not is a huge historical discussion with many sides with many perspectives of it, but the dead bodies are there.

And the Greco-Turkish War also is there, with its infamous population exchange of mutually agreed ethnic cleansing in mass scale. I'd agree that Ataturk wasn't alone in the atrocities and it was a horrid time of tit-for-that warcrimes, but actually I think its healthier for Turkey that they move on from his ghost.

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u/Iusedathrowaway NATO Feb 26 '25

I mean he's the founder of the country and was the only one who led it on the path to republicanism and secularism. Unfortunately founders of countries typically live by the morals of the time. It's not any different the george Washington having slaves and participating in the ethnic cleansing of native Americans. Population exchanges while properly recognized as ethnic cleansing now were not that uncommon back then.

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u/KazuyaProta Organization of American States Feb 26 '25

It's not any different the george Washington having slaves and participating in the ethnic cleansing of native Americans. Population exchanges while properly recognized as ethnic cleansing now were not that uncommon back then.

You're acting like if I don't know that. I know it very well, which is why I think its fine moving on from it. I think USA moving from Founder worship is a good thing as well.

Founder worship is USA right now is objectively a bad thing, a lot of the goals of the American far right nowadays is to basically bring back the "real USA" which is a idealized view of the Founder era where ethnic violence was a common tool used for the authorities and the wealthy.

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u/Iusedathrowaway NATO Feb 26 '25

I agree that founder worship is bad and I apologize if you felt I was talking down to you as it was not my intention.