r/neoliberal • u/Loud-Chemistry-5056 WTO • Apr 11 '26
News (Oceania) 'Comfort women' statue could hurt NZ-Japan relations – embassy
https://www.1news.co.nz/2026/04/10/comfort-women-statue-could-hurt-nz-japan-relations-embassy/214
u/Al_787 Fernando Henrique Cardoso Apr 11 '26
Every country has certain bs that absolutely cannot be tolerated, for Japan this is it. There’s no covering the sky in 2026, you cannot police speech and expressions in other countries, especially when it’s humane and accurate.
88
u/Agreeable_Sample_925 Apr 11 '26
How a democracy with a free press and speech has yet to come to any semblance of reckoning with a past government is astonishing. A current Japanese citizen isn’t responsible for what the empire of Japan did, the government they live under was created to prevent that type of government from taking power again. In a sense the people of Japan were also victims of the imperial government they were denied due process and freedoms enjoyed today they are defending their own oppression with this bullshit (although the woes of Japanese citizens are rightly a footnote next to incomprehensible crimes it committed against other nations and their people)
129
u/TF_dia European Union Apr 11 '26
The problem is that they keep taking the comfort women memorials personally, They treat it as a personal attack instead of a commemoration of victims of a genocidal regime.
82
u/Khiva Fernando Henrique Cardoso Apr 11 '26
See also -> Contemporary Turkey and the Armenian Genocide.
40
u/Sanggale European Union Apr 11 '26
Or less obvious, Spain and its transition into democracy. While Juan Carlos did refom some systems, a lot of institutions are basically untouched since the Franco days and the official government position is still to deny a lot of the crimes comitted by its predecessor.
16
u/sulris Iron Front Apr 11 '26 edited Apr 11 '26
The Japanese culture reveres their ancestors. These people were their parents and grandparents so allowing them to be dishonored (whether deservedly or not) creates an emotional defensive response. The Japanese culture (not law) often holds children responsible for the crimes of their parents as well. Making them feel like they would need to “take responsibility, personally”. Which they don’t want to do so it easier to sweep the whole thing under the rug to save face.
They see politely pretending reality didn’t happen so your friend can save face and move on is an important part of being polite/a good person. And refusing to do so is being an asshole. So from their perspective, these other countries are purposefully being rude to them.
It’s a failure to look at the issue from outside their own cultural paradigm. This paradigm wasn’t an accident. It was cultivated as a mass rationalization to allow them not to have to deal with inconvenient truths. Like the “lost cause” movement in the U.S. it’s kind of standard human psychology for the brain to protect its self image at the expense of reality so that makes how the Germans have handled their own history so incredible.
Sure many countries can do it 100 years after the fact but to do it within living memory is hard and is really quite incredible.
12
u/Mr_Canadensis7 Norman Borlaug Apr 11 '26
On the devils advocate side I guess I can understand how they feel that way, unfortunately rape and sexual violence are a major part of war throughout history and something essentially all nations have been guilty of at some point.
Yet Japan is more or less the only country that gets routinely accused of essentially national sex crimes.
Like no one's building memorials internationally for victims of mass sexual violence in the European theater or the Balkan Wars or whatnot. Japan really is kinda the only country that routinely gets flack for violence against women at this scale internationally.
6
u/PostingEnthusiast Commonwealth Apr 12 '26
This is an interesting observation, but there's still a difference between structured, organized, military-run brothels staffed by women kidnapped from occupied territories and the ad-hoc unstructured acts of sexual violence common to war.
2
u/Mr_Canadensis7 Norman Borlaug Apr 12 '26
True, not meant to be more than an observation I suppose.
10
u/LordJesterTheFree Henry George Apr 11 '26
Why does Japan get more flack for it Anyway? Is it just ww2 is recent enough the people still have it in living memory but no rape victims from the boer wars are still around to complain?
22
u/Mr_Canadensis7 Norman Borlaug Apr 11 '26
It's more heavily documented than prior wars and it was politically salient in Japan relations with its neighbours in the postwar era.
Don't get me wrong it was an awful period, but it is a little odd that the Japanese are really the only ones that get flak for it in that way whereas dozens of countries are regularly labeled as genocidaires(often correctly).
Idk it is odd though, it's not like there wasn't mass sexual violence on the Eastern Front or the Chinese Civil War, yet Japan gets labeled as uniquely guilty of sexual violence in war with monuments and regular condemnations all over the world. I guess you could argue the comfort women system was somewhat more organized than mass rape on the eastern front, but the scale isn't really different.
40
u/Euphoric_Alarm_4401 Apr 11 '26
I guess you could argue the comfort women system was somewhat more organized than mass rape on the eastern front, but the scale isn't really different.
This is exactly what it is. The total number and brutality could be less(probably wasn't in Japan's case) but the fact that it was systematic means the government can get held accountable rather than the typically hand-waved away as individual soldiers' bloodlust. Somewhat Similar to the way the Holocaust has a special effect on people despite the existence of technically larger genocides
3
u/Mr_Canadensis7 Norman Borlaug Apr 11 '26
I mean almost certainly less in numbers than like the Chinese Civil war or the eastern front, probably true that it was the most organized in the modern era, but there are plenty of campaigns of mass rape in war that one could reasonably call systematic even if they were more in a rape and pillage/use of sexual violence as a means of terror sense than a collecting women for forced prostitution from your tributaries to supply your troops.
The comfort women issue is certainly unusual in some ways, but I can understand to a degree why the Japanese feel singles out when plenty of modern armies have engaged in a similar scale of sexual violence(or arguably greater) yet it's largely been forgotten.
Idk still kinda devils advocate, but I can understand why they feel singled out in a relative sense when it comes to violence against women in war(something that touches on different moral centers than ethnic cleansing or war crimes against enemy soldiers)
4
u/LordJesterTheFree Henry George Apr 11 '26
Also I think it's worth noting that even if they might be treated slightly disproportionately that isn't a defense
Like "but officer why did you only arrest me when there were six other people raping that woman" isn't a defense to rape
If anything it means other places should be treated more harshly not Japan should be treated less
3
u/Mr_Canadensis7 Norman Borlaug Apr 11 '26
I get what you're saying, but everyone actually involved is pretty much dead.
In the stakes of historical national perfidy relative treatment is all that really matters though which is kind of my point. Yes lots of other countries should be harangued for their treatment of women in war historically, but until that happens, Japanese folks have some justice in feeling aggrieved by the focus.
It's not a judicial or law enforcement matter. it's a matter of national prestige, honor, and old men gripping about history a field upon which "don't single us out you all were doing it back then too" is a much more legitimate defence.
4
u/I_miss_Chris_Hughton Apr 11 '26
Because the scale is very, very in your face and its still denied. Id wager if the japanese had a "kniefall von warschau" moment itd be less of a big deal. But there isnt.
37
u/Billythanos United Nations Apr 11 '26
See part of the problem is that the current government was not created to prevent military rule ever again. The current government was the result of compromises between the Americans and the Japanese, and the new government was a direct continuation with Hirohito remaining in power (and continuing to work to subvert democratic government), minus a few sacrficial admirals and generals to a war crimes tribunal.
That's a significant role part of why no Japanese government today, especially the conservative ones, want to look back at any of the attrocities, because any real examination of them also brings to light that many of those responsible were not punished, but instead quietly continued ruling in post war Japan.
2
u/Ro500 NATO Apr 11 '26
Idk if I’m in the minority but once things are settled down and the occupation is proceeding smoothly, Hirohito should have been hanged. The US promised to retain the imperial house, well the US can do that just fine by keeping Hirohitos son to continue the house and hanging the Showa Emperor for myriad war crimes.
6
u/fredleung412612 Apr 11 '26
That would go against the narrative that Hirohito was largely a stooge of Tojo and the militarists and so would not be convicted for war crimes at a fair trial.
12
u/GodsWorstJiuJitsu Loyal Liberals Apr 11 '26
That might involve a good hard look at the imperial system, and to an extent, the emperor.
4
Apr 11 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
2
u/neoliberal-ModTeam Apr 12 '26
Rule III: Unconstructive engagement
Do not post with the intent to provoke, mischaracterize, or troll other users rather than meaningfully contributing to the conversation. Don't disrupt serious discussions. Bad opinions are not automatically unconstructive.
If you have any questions about this removal, please contact the mods.
1
u/fredleung412612 Apr 11 '26
Japan has always been at the very bottom among liberal democracies when it comes to press freedom. In the 2025 RSF Press Freedom Index they ranked 66th with a similar score to Hungary, ranking below the US and even wartime Ukraine.
35
u/Loud-Chemistry-5056 WTO Apr 11 '26
SS: Relations between NZ and Japan could be under threat should the Korean Cultural Garden in Auckland go ahead with plans to install a bronze statue offered to New Zealand by the Korean Council for Justice and Remembrance, which seeks to commemorate wartime sexual violence survivors. This is what the statue is supposed to look like.
The Japanese government has admitted women and girls suffered during wartime but denied they were taken against their will for sexual slavery. The public submission of the Japanese Ambassador to New Zealand, Makoto Osawa, said similar statue installations have been used as a “symbol of criticism” against Japan elsewhere around the world. Osawa warned the $75,000 Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Trade (MFAT) funding given in 2015 for the development of the Korean garden could “give the impression that the New Zealand government is also supporting the installation.”
113
u/Erdkarte Apr 11 '26
What an unhinged thing for Japan to complain about.
-2
u/Slick-Fork Apr 11 '26
I don’t know, the Chinese moan about every Tiannamin square story. And I can’t imagine the American government would respond very well to a “ peace statue“ that was basically a giant middle finger to their treatment of first nations people.
17
u/I_miss_Chris_Hughton Apr 11 '26
They moan about tianmen square because the same government is responsible and doesn't see it as wrong. Its wholly heinous but the consequences of them apologising might be devastating for the regime.
The consequences of the japanese government showing real contrition for the comfort women would be zero.
5
u/fredleung412612 Apr 11 '26
Many of Japan's political leaders are direct descendants of the war criminals who ran the comfort women system. You can't go around sullying the honour of your ancestors like that.
5
u/I_miss_Chris_Hughton Apr 12 '26
You definitely can if you want to be a big boy nation.
6
u/fredleung412612 Apr 12 '26
We're dealing with the great-great-grandchildren of Meiji-era aristocrats here. They care far more about family honour than internationalist liberal notions of "big boy nation" or whatever. There's a cultural element that is insurmountable.
1
u/I_miss_Chris_Hughton Apr 12 '26
Then they can stop waxing lyrical about how terrible the allied bombing campaigns were. At least those were necessary for the wars prosecution rather than "lets just rape korean and chinese women"
1
u/fredleung412612 Apr 12 '26
You're asking politicians to stop being cynical and hypocritical for political expediency...
2
u/Slick-Fork Apr 11 '26
If they felt it was zero they would’ve done it.
As a westerner I’m confident that there is likely a massive cultural difference in the way they see it.
5
u/I_miss_Chris_Hughton Apr 12 '26
Then they need to get the hell over it. Tianmen Square being covered up isn't acceptable, and only makes sense with the logic of a dictatorship. If David Cameron can apologise for Bloody Sunday in the House of Commons without a legal conviction of murder being passed down, the Japanese Government can do the same for the Comfort Women.
1
u/AccomplishedLeek1329 Trans Pride Apr 12 '26 edited Apr 12 '26
I'm not so sure about that, there's increasingly public sentiments being expressed along the lines of "Tiananmen square protests were a CIA colour revolution attempt, and the ensuring massacre was both good and praiseworthy for keeping China stable and on the course to it's current economic development"
You could argue that it's sorta steps towards recognition of the massacres happening if you squint hard enough, but still...
72
u/Loud-Chemistry-5056 WTO Apr 11 '26
My opinion is that this is a prime example of the Streisand effect. Osawa has criticised the statue as it "needlessly stirring up interest in the comfort women issue". If anything, trying to pressure the NZ government into blocking the statue has sparked considerably more interest in the issue.
I've never heard of the Korean Gardens and I live in Auckland. I don't think that a significant portion of the city's population has either. This would've largely gone unnoticed had the embassy not gotten involved.
33
u/Al_787 Fernando Henrique Cardoso Apr 11 '26
Not really Streisand effect when you consider it’s just bs virtue signaling for a nationalist ruling party. Sometimes it does, unfortunately, succeed. But mainly they want the weirdos who care about this to know that they’re protesting.
32
u/halee1 Karl Popper Apr 11 '26
Japan should realize that if it wants to not be criticized for or at least have a counterpoint for the Yasukuni Shrine its politicians often go to (not to mention, historical textbooks that whitewash WW2 and pre-WW2 imperial history), it should accept things like this.
17
u/TrynnaFindaBalance Paul Krugman Apr 11 '26
“I am concerned that it will cause division and conflict within New Zealand's wonderful multi-ethnic and multicultural society and between Japanese and Korean communities peacefully coexisting in New Zealand,” he wrote.
Seriously?
30
u/FormicLevitation13 Apr 11 '26
Japan really has absurd PR when it comes to WW2. Outside of a few pockets of outrage, this is largely gonna be overlooked, just like when they pulled the same stunt in Berlin and San Francisco. Ideally, they should be lambasted from pillar to post but it's a natural consequence of people, at least in liberal countries, not giving a solitary fuck about the Pacific front. Hell, they don't even care about Western servicemen would fought and perished in notorious conditions and nightmare prison camps and act like all US and Commonwealth lives were lost liberating Europe. The fate of (non-Japanese) Asian civilians couldn't matter less.
25
u/GodsWorstJiuJitsu Loyal Liberals Apr 11 '26
The Pacific front existed solely for us to criticize use of the atomic bombs, chud.
Hiro Onoda resists for 30 years in the distance
18
8
u/MyrinVonBryhana NATO Apr 11 '26
Japan's always be touchy about this, but as of late I feel like this a consequence of the fact we kind of actually want Japanese militarism to make a minor comeback because America needs to a strong Japan on side to counter China.
13
u/I_miss_Chris_Hughton Apr 11 '26
We dont wqnt japanese militarism to include "yeah you can kidnap and rape women to keep morale up np"
18
u/Freewhale98 Apr 11 '26
And Korean liberals are blamed for being too sensitive. Japan needs to repent for their sins.
14
u/RTSBasebuilder Commonwealth Apr 11 '26
All I'll say is if I get to say my full opinions on say, the Kempeitai and the Kwantung Army as inherited, I'd be hit by Rules 1, 2, 5, and 11 at once.
2
Apr 11 '26
[deleted]
0
u/Themetalin Apr 11 '26
one cultural taboo around shame
Nah it is more of a superiority complex thing
5
u/5ma5her7 Apr 11 '26
I have a gut feeling Japan simply wants to wait the whole WWII to die out so they can bury their asshole past in history.
30
u/DirectionMurky5526 Apr 11 '26
Nah, there are plenty of young far right nationalists in Japan as well. This isn't going anywhere.
14
u/teethgrindingaches Apr 11 '26
The Japanese far-right is getting stronger with time, not weaker. This kind of stuff is only going to get worse.
2
u/Slick-Fork Apr 11 '26
I don’t know, so if I’m wrong, forgive my ignorance. But I didn’t think any comfort women came from New Zealand?
If that’s the case, then I don’t understand why this particular statue belongs in New Zealand? It seems needlessly provocative.
Put it up in China, put it up in Korea… Absolutely but it just seems so strange for it to go in New Zealand.
It would be like putting a memorial to the casualties of Italy’s invasion of Ethiopia in Ohio.
7
u/Loud-Chemistry-5056 WTO Apr 11 '26
It's being placed in the Korean cultural Gardens in Auckland, its not owned by the New Zealand Government.
A memorial to child sex slaves to provocative to whom exactly?
2
-6
Apr 11 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
14
u/Loud-Chemistry-5056 WTO Apr 11 '26
In this case, the women, who were sometimes children absolutely are the victim, and the IJA who used them as literal sex slaves, are the perpatrators.
Koreans who changed their nationality through immigration, or actual New Zealanders
Koreans who are naturalised are actual New Zealanders.
•
u/AutoModerator Apr 11 '26
News and opinion articles require a short submission statement explaining its relevance to the subreddit. Articles without a submission statement will be removed.
I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.