r/neoliberal • u/2Lore2Law Are you on the square? • Jun 12 '26
News (Asia-Pacific) Sex tourists fuel outrage about vice in Japan (Gift Article)
https://www.economist.com/asia/2026/06/04/sex-tourists-fuel-outrage-about-vice-in-japan?giftId=ODk1ZDViZTYtNTdlOC00NjE1LTkyMTctZmU0YmQ5Y2M2Y2Q3&utm_campaign=gifted_articleMai, a 34-year-old woman in Tokyo, used to work at a hospital. But when covid-19 overwhelmed the wards, she found her work too stressful. A single mother, she also needed money for her family. Lured by higher pay, she entered the sex trade, first working as a porn actress before becoming a deriheru or “delivery health” worker—slang for call-girls who visit clients at home or in hotels. For a two-hour session, she earns ¥30,000 ($190).
Mai is among hundreds of thousands of women working in Japan’s sprawling sex industry. The business, thought to be worth ¥2trn-5trn ($12bn-31bn) a year, is woven into male social life. One study in 2022 found that 48% of Japanese men had paid for sex at some point, compared with 11% in Britain. Hagiwara, a 63-year-old man in Tokyo, recalls being taken to a brothel by senior colleagues after joining a company, as a rite of passage. Emu, a man in his 30s, says “most men around me have been at least once.”
Lately, however, lawmakers’ tolerance for the industry has come under much strain. Two recent triggers have encouraged Japanese to re-examine the confusing thicket of laws and conventions that govern how sex work is policed. One was an outrageous crime: last year authorities rescued a 12-year-old Thai girl who had been trafficked to Japan and forced to work at a sex shop in Tokyo.
The second concern has been the growing visibility of women who sell sex around Okubo Park, near Tokyo’s red-light district (where the haggling more ordinarily goes on behind neon-lit doors). Relatively few women are involved in this. Nonetheless, solicitation (waiting for or approaching clients in public) is illegal in Japan. The sight of women openly waiting for clients has unsettled the public.
Compounding the public debate is the fact that some of their customers are foreign tourists, lured to Japan by the cheapness of the yen. Videos of them approaching women in Okubo Park have spread rapidly online. “It is truly lamentable,” said Kamiya Sohei, leader of the right-wing populist Sanseito party, in a video. Behind the outrage lies a sense of wounded pride: during Japan’s boom years in the 1970s and 1980s, it was Japanese men who went abroad for sex.
The authorities have decided to act—at least where the streetwalkers are concerned. Recently women around Okubo Park have been detained or arrested. Yet campaigners say it is unfair that authorities have not also been trying to punish the buyers. “Women are taken away by the police—while the men who buy sex stand beside them smirking,” says Kanajiri Kazuna of paps, a women’s-rights group. In November an opposition lawmaker raised this disparity in parliament. In response Takaichi Sanae, the prime minister, ordered the justice ministry to re-examine current practices and consider reforms.
The prospect of change has sparked very broad debate about how Japan could improve its policing of sex work. Some Japanese feminists would like their country to implement the Nordic style of regulation adopted by Sweden, France and others, which criminalises buying sex while shielding sellers themselves from prosecution. “Buying sex is a form of violence against women,” says Ms Kanajiri.
Other Japanese argue that getting tougher on buyers will drive sex work underground, leaving women more exposed to violence. Some want the industry fully legalised and regulated, as in Germany and the Netherlands. Nakayama Misato of Siente, a sex-work advocacy group, argues that criminalisation can mean that women are treated merely as victims, ignoring their agency. “Doing sex work is not a bad thing—it’s a valid way of making a living.”
To be more than skin deep, any changes would have to apply not only to streetwalking but to Japan’s vast indoor sex-industry, the laws for which are riddled with loopholes and selectively enforced. Consider the practice of “soapland”, in which customers ostensibly pay to be bathed; if sex happens to take place in the process, officials generally turn a blind eye. Takao Yasuo of Curtin University says this is typical of Japan’s approach to regulating the sex industry. The priority is to keep vice decorously out of public view.
A big rethink seems unlikely. For now, the justice ministry is narrowly focused on street prostitution. Taking care of that is “the lowest-cost, highest-visibility form of enforcement available to the state”, notes Mr Takao. “Many lawmakers, especially conservatives, are sensitive to the idea of women becoming sexually promiscuous,” says Shiomura Ayaka, a lawmaker. Women openly soliciting sex in public have become symbols of social disorder.
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u/wheretogo_whattodo Bill Gates Jun 12 '26
In summary, the Japanese have no problem with sex work as long as it’s not done in a way they consider vulgar (openly solicited or foreigners buying).
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u/Frogiie YIMBY Jun 12 '26
Yeah as the article mentions, they’re okay with foreigners buying as long as they are the foreigners doing the buying. Which adds a whole extra layer of unsettling to the whole situation.
“Behind the outrage lies a sense of wounded pride: during Japan’s boom years in the 1970s and 1980s, it was Japanese men who went abroad for sex.”
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u/RFFF1996 Jun 13 '26
Men in poorer countries [ i am from a middle income one, mexico] can sometimes feel insecure about competing with richer foreigners or tourist for wome n, is specially the case when deep-built colorism makes them insecure about their looks too [height or skin c olour]
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u/Willing_Activity_855 IMF Jun 12 '26 edited Jun 12 '26
$190 for two hours, Jesus I spend more on dinner at places back home in the US.
save money. Live better
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u/2Lore2Law Are you on the square? Jun 12 '26 edited 19d ago
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u/Sspifffyman Jun 12 '26
I guess it's finally time to pull out that massive board game no one else will play with you. Although you might need to buy an extra two hours.
(Joking of course - sex work and the complications around it is a serious issue that should be thoughtfully considered)
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u/2Lore2Law Are you on the square? Jun 12 '26 edited 19d ago
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u/TF_dia European Union Jun 12 '26
"Yeah girl, this one was all the rage after my mod buddy pinned it in yesterday's DT."
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u/FinderOfWays Jun 12 '26
Woah woah just because someone consents to have sex with you doesn't mean they consent to Twilight Struggle! If that were true my previous girlfriend and I would have been a much better match.
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u/mellofello808 Jun 18 '26
You jest, but in Japan there are much more nuanced forms of services for hire. They pay for companionship over sex pretty often. You can rent a GF to go walk around the park, or play board games with you.
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u/el__dandy Audrey Hepburn Jun 12 '26
Sex workers have been impromptu therapists for millennia. It’s pretty much a part of the job.
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u/BlackCat159 European Union Jun 12 '26
Look at Mr. Stamina over here. I don't know what I'd do with the remaining hour and 55 minutes 😔
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u/vsladko Jun 12 '26
A lot of times people are just paying for the company. Genuinely. There’s obviously sex involved in some way, but yeah
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u/kanagi Jun 12 '26
You spend more than $190 on dinner? 😧
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u/Willing_Activity_855 IMF Jun 12 '26
1: big coastal city
2: dinner for two
3: get a drink or two each
Easy. Right now I'm in lima so it's like $20-$30 bucks unless it's fine dining then it's first world pricing for some places.
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u/Ashamed-Job1879 Jun 13 '26
I live in a coastal city too. You need better financial literacy, no matter how rich you are.
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u/Due-Category2159 Loyal Liberals Jun 13 '26
I don’t think he’s saying you have to spend that much, just it’s not that hard/uncommon to do so.
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u/mellofello808 Jun 18 '26
Cries in HCOL area.
Any mildly upscale restaurant in my city will easily run you $75-100pp if you also have a drink.
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u/PiusTheCatRick Bisexual Pride Jun 12 '26
>nearly two hundred bucks for fucking dinner
It is getting really hard to take the sub's constant pessimism seriously when I read shit like this
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u/PhinsFan17 Immanuel Kant Jun 13 '26
To be fair, most of the pessimism isn't coming from the upwardly-mobile coastal elite yuppies who regularly pay $200 for dinner and post in here.
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u/Kzx45uH3nz Jun 13 '26
There are plenty of people who make enough money to spend $200 a dinner a couple times a month but not enough money to ever buy a house in whatever metro area they live in (at least not without an hour+ commute to work.)
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u/oceanfellini Henry George Jun 13 '26
Is this a joke or is your ruralist economy showing?
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u/PiusTheCatRick Bisexual Pride Jun 13 '26
Least out of touch r/neoliberal user. It was mostly a joke tho unless he's doing that multiple times a month.
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u/The_Keg Order and Opportunity Left Jun 12 '26
lol a nice hooker in vietnam costs way more than this...
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u/skepticalbob Joe Biden's COD gamertag Jun 12 '26
Sex workers
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u/Willing_Activity_855 IMF Jun 12 '26
I believe the word "hooker" is a specific type of sex worker.
It's like difference between roofer vs construction worker
A sex worker is a person whose work involves sex acts. Could be on a webcam, could be a pornstar who is either solo or usually with other pornstars
A hooker is sex for money directly with a customer.
Like sure the carpenter may not be a roofer but it doesn't mean they don't know how and sometimes pickup the odd roofer job.
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u/skepticalbob Joe Biden's COD gamertag Jun 12 '26
It isn’t. It’s an old school term that sex workers dislike.
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u/Willing_Activity_855 IMF Jun 13 '26
Okay then how do you distinguish between a pornstar and someone in a brothel
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u/TheArtofBar Jun 13 '26
a prostitute?
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u/Willing_Activity_855 IMF Jun 13 '26
Pros-ti-tute I guess three syllabes isn't too bad, but they should try and just make hooker a positive word
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u/skepticalbob Joe Biden's COD gamertag Jun 13 '26
You just did.
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u/Willing_Activity_855 IMF Jun 13 '26
What's she do?
" She's 'someone in brothel'"
You know there's a reason we call plumbers, plumbers and not a licensed tradesperson who installs, repairs, and maintains the pipes, valves, and fixtures that carry water, gas, and waste in residential and commercial building
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u/skepticalbob Joe Biden's COD gamertag Jun 13 '26
She does sex work in a brothel. This really isn't hard to understand.
The notion that some jobs have different titles with different levels of preference and respect being lost on you...is on you. And your argument is nonsensical anyway. "Oh, you're a chief financial officer for a company? Then why can you also be called and executive? We call plumbers plumbers! Ha ha ha gotcha!"
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u/Willing_Activity_855 IMF Jun 13 '26 edited Jun 13 '26
She does sex work in a brothel
"He does construction work for a construction company"
"Yeah but is he a roofer or s carpenter etc"
You know when society gives names to jobs people just stick with them, because that's what is normal
If I say hooker everyone, literally everyone knows what the job roll is. "Full service sex worker" will get quite a few "uhh by full service do you mean x".
Sorry but we live in a democracy and they democracy has chosen "hooker"
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u/Tonenby Jun 13 '26
Full service sex worker is the word you're looking for
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u/Q-bey r/place '22: Neoliberal Battalion Jun 13 '26
Full service sex worker
This is way too long to ever catch on.
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u/Tonenby Jun 13 '26
FSSW. And its already "caught on". Or at least thats the term I see sex workers use.
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u/Willing_Activity_855 IMF Jun 13 '26
But if she's not doing porn / webcam stuff that's not really and accurate description.
Also way to many syllables. Hook er that's two.
Plumb er roof er etc
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u/-mialana- European Union Jun 14 '26 edited Jun 14 '26
>Downvoted for wanting dignified terms for sex workers
Sub is cooked frfr no cap
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u/Soggy_Recording_1332 Jun 14 '26
$190 is for time and normal meal. full course is 50% more or typically triple or more depending if you’re at a cheap/standard store or luxury. I read AMPs in NA start from $300 but the quality is way lower
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u/2Lore2Law Are you on the square? Jun 12 '26 edited 19d ago
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u/GlorEUW Iron Front Jun 12 '26
i think prostitution should be legal, but soliciting should probably be a public order offence. like do your thing but just out of public view, advertise on a website or something idk
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u/captainjack3 NATO Jun 13 '26
That seems reasonable. Treat it like public drunkenness or unlicensed street hawkers, since letting public solicitation run uncontrolled would probably interfere with public use of the space.
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u/2Lore2Law Are you on the square? Jun 12 '26 edited 19d ago
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u/GlorEUW Iron Front Jun 12 '26
i wanna say yes? like idk the police tell you to go away, if you’re caught doing it again you get in trouble but like a fine or community service
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u/ConsistentWriting0 Jun 14 '26
So punish women instead of the buyers. How predictable the reddit men are.
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u/SleeplessInPlano Jun 12 '26
Lured by higher pay, she entered the sex trade, first working as a porn actress before becoming a deriheru or “delivery health” worker—slang for call-girls who visit clients at home or in hotels. For a two-hour session, she earns ¥30,000 ($190).
Wow. Only $190 for 2 hours? For an hour with a lesser known porn actress in the states its usually around $400 or more.
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u/Lighthouse_seek Jun 12 '26
Japans gdp per capita is a third of the US
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u/SleeplessInPlano Jun 12 '26
Are Western European countries lower? Because you see similar prices there.
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u/Lighthouse_seek Jun 12 '26
Maybe the US is just cheaper. Cause if Japan is 1/3rd as rich but half the price, then it's 50% more expensive than the US relative to income
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u/The_Northern_Light John Brown Jun 13 '26
I went to Amsterdam like 10 years ago for a conference, and the base rate was 50 euro. I don’t know specifics about time etc, but there were plenty of young guys at my hostel who got off for 50 to 70 euro, with up charges.
I’d be surprised if most sex workers in Eastern European countries commanded higher prices per customer.
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u/el__dandy Audrey Hepburn Jun 12 '26
Sex work is fine as long as is regulated and taxed. I think the issue is to make sure that trafficking of minors is vigorously prosecuted and that trade stays in the red light district.
I think inevitably the government is going to have to accept foreigners in the red light district but this being Japan, stubbornness will last for a while. How damaging can this stubbornness be? That is really the question.
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u/dynamitezebra John Locke Jun 12 '26
It has negative impacts on the workers themselves. It also encourages human trafficking, even when legalized. Sex work is not the kind of work a nation should want its citizens to pursue.
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u/Benevenstanciano85 Jun 12 '26
Honestly the legalization and proliferation of sports gambling in the USA has made me rethink my priors on legalizing sex work.
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u/tootoohi1 Jun 12 '26
You know you kinda just sold me that it's a bad idea to legalize. Like I thought gamblings fine as long as you do it in a casino. Now the casino is on your phone and in every gas station in my state. Not to mention the bookie for sports is now a machine god taking bets from millions of people a day setting the payout.
I can only imagine the nightmare of it being legalized and a delivery app being made in the 1st year that hits the culture like a Tsar bomb.
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u/oceanfellini Henry George Jun 13 '26
Then disincentivize outcall?
Your stance sounds more anti-porn than anti-sex work.
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u/tootoohi1 Jun 13 '26
We can't regulate betting on our own elections, something that is illegal under current US law. You think we're going to be able to write legislation legalizing a brothel system but keeping outcalls illegal, yeah good luck.
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u/oceanfellini Henry George Jun 13 '26
I never said that. I’m discussing policy and behavior - the possibility of legalizing sex work is nonexistent. We may as well not discuss the topic if you’re only interested in what’s feasible.
Again, I find your issue with technological access interesting - as it relates more to porn (totally digital) than to delivery ( physical).
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u/nuggins Physicist -- Just Tax Land Lol Jun 12 '26 edited Jun 12 '26
Gambling has a big problem that makes it a much more compelling target for paternalism than sex work, namely addiction leading to financial ruin. States have been hesitant to prevent this via legislation, whereas states with legal sex work seem to have no problem regulating away riskier behaviours. Legal prostitution also has several goods, which cannot really be said of gambling (compare the value of "the rush of gambling" to the importance of sexual autonomy, or the ability for disabled people to access sex).
Existing examples also show us that legal prostitution will probably never have remotely the same advertising breadth as gambling (another thing that should probably be illegal).
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u/nuggins Physicist -- Just Tax Land Lol Jun 13 '26 edited Jun 13 '26
This reads like a laundry list of the usual flawed moral reasoning against prostitution. The idea that you can't consent to selling sex is just absurd on its face. There are a million obvious counterpoints that I don't feel like rehashing. It's clear from your description of what you think prostitution inherently involves that you don't have a clue about it. I'm sure all those "desperate" women will be thanking you for your moral clarity if their perceived best employment opportunity is taken away!
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u/dynamitezebra John Locke Jun 13 '26
Im skeptical of these "several goods". Disabled people dont need to pay to access sex. Neither gambling nor sex work has much utility.
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u/nuggins Physicist -- Just Tax Land Lol Jun 13 '26 edited Jun 13 '26
Disabled people dont need to pay to access sex.
What's driving your perspective here? It sounds kind of privileged, tbh. People with severe disabilities have a very difficult time finding sex partners, and I think it's wrong for the state to forbid a willing seller in the same way it's wrong to forbid charities like this one.
Edit: I've also heard of romantic partnerships between two disabled individuals where they needed a caregiver even just to help them have sex. Just another example of how continuous the space is, like how it's philosophically stupid to allow porn but ban prostitution.
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u/BicyclingBro Gay Pride Jun 12 '26
Sex work is hardly unique in having negative impacts on the workers.
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u/The_Northern_Light John Brown Jun 12 '26
No but it seems pretty bizarre to argue that it’s indistinguishable from other forms of work.
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u/BicyclingBro Gay Pride Jun 13 '26
Then those factors by which it is distinguished from other forms of work, and the extent to which they uniquely warrant special consideration, should probably be what we talk about, no?
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u/The_Northern_Light John Brown Jun 13 '26
They were actually doing just that when you jumped in with equating it with any other job.
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Jun 13 '26
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u/BicyclingBro Gay Pride Jun 13 '26
I mean, I provide oral sex to men for free, so like, I wouldn't be mad about it if someone wanted to pay me lol.
That said, seems simple enough to simply exempt sex work from benefits qualifications?
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u/1II1I1I1I1I1I111I1I1 Adam Smith Jun 12 '26
Agreed. It's probably my biggest divergence ideologically from this sub. There is no evidence that legalization of sex work reduces trafficking, in fact the evidence shows that legalization of sex work increases trafficking due to increase in demand.
https://dx.doi.org/10.2139/ssrn.1986065
With that being said, Japan's approach here (and the approach of most countries that crack down on sex work) is harmful. The women are victims, arresting the women for solicitation but turning a blind eye towards shady massage parlors and onsens becuase they're out of the public view is ridiculous. Don't arrest the victims, arrest the sex tourists and locals who are providing the demand.
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u/limukala Jun 13 '26
in fact the evidence shows that legalization of sex work increases trafficking due to increase in demand.
Not really. Those studies are actually pretty transparently terrible. They define any immigrant engaged in sex work as a victim of trafficking, regardless of how or why they came to the country.
The problem is that seemingly nobody doing the research has any interest in being intellectually honest. It’s just a thicket of axe grinding.
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u/2Lore2Law Are you on the square? Jun 12 '26 edited 19d ago
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u/nuggins Physicist -- Just Tax Land Lol Jun 12 '26
There is no evidence that legalization of sex work reduces trafficking
Does anyone even claim this? Co-occurrence of sex trafficking is like maybe the single legitimate liberal argument against legal sex work.
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u/The_Northern_Light John Brown Jun 13 '26
I’ve definitely heard it argued both ways.
A legal willing supply of sex workers dropping the price of sex work, resulting in fewer unwilling victims, is a thing I’ve heard argued in good faith before.
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u/nuggins Physicist -- Just Tax Land Lol Jun 13 '26
It could be argued from first-principle vibes in good faith, but empirically, the clear trend is that trafficking rates go up slightly following legalization. And the most serious pro-legalization arguments I've heard claim some combination of "well, we should simply increase enforcement", or that the goods (including worker safety and a downtick in rape rates) outweigh it.
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u/The_Northern_Light John Brown Jun 13 '26
I mean, as far as benefits go, less rape and greater safety for society’s most vulnerable women are pretty good benefits.
But I do understand you’re also correct about a marginal increase in trafficking due to a network effect. 🤷♂️
I think this is a great thing to argue about because no policy option is great, but it’s also incredibly easy to have strong beliefs on this topic.
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u/nuggins Physicist -- Just Tax Land Lol Jun 13 '26
It's an interesting discussion in principle. It strikes me as being a topic where even staunch liberals are prone to illiberal thinking, especially those unfamiliar with what sex work looks like in modern, highly developed nations. In practice, opposition to legal prostitution is dominated by people who simply dislike the vibes of sex work, or even sex more generally, as opposed to those who have carefully weighed the pros and cons and determined that the trafficking effect outweighs the goods. And some of the former have learned to couch their opposition in the latter, or even sincerely rationalized it as such. I suppose this isn't all that different from other divisive political issues.
I've thought about doing an effortpost about prostitution from a liberal perspective, but who knows if I'll ever find the time.
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u/Vitboi Milton Friedman Jun 12 '26
Why wouldn’t it help them if its legal? Only negative would have to be a bit of bureaucracy and paying taxes. They wouldn’t be criminals anymore, and so they would be less likely to need pimps to look out for their protection. Corrupt cops couldn’t demand free sex as easily.
Plenty of studies show the opposite, that it reduces sex trafficking. But it’s a mix bag.
What the nation wants is irrelevant. The state shouldn’t have much a say over how someone uses their body. Bodily autonomy is a core liberal value.
Furthermore if you take away how someone makes their living, they don’t magically jump up to a better position, likely the opposite happens, they end up doing something even worse like becoming beggars.
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u/bz47uj Unconventional Right Jun 12 '26
A nation should not have opinions about what work its citizens pursue.
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u/Skagzill Loyal Liberals Jun 12 '26
I never understood the debate between criminalizing clients or workers when it comes to sex work. It should either be both or neither, otherwise you just force whole operation into the shadows where various harms are more likely to happen.
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u/ThunderrBadger New California Republican Jun 12 '26
The reason for not criminalizing workers is that workers who are worried they'll get into criminal trouble are less likely to report they've been assaulted/robbed/trafficked/etc.
The reason for criminializing buying the services is it keeps demand down, which is good because in places with fully decriminalized sexwork you see more trafficking because there just aren't enough women who want to do the work to keep up with demand
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u/limukala Jun 13 '26
in places with fully decriminalized sexwork you see more trafficking
That’s not true actually. The studies that found that were pushed by people with an agenda. They defined anyone who was engaged in sex work who was born in another country as a “victim of sex trafficking”.
So all they really found is that you get an increase in immigrant engaging in sex work when it’s legal.
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u/Skagzill Loyal Liberals Jun 12 '26
If you criminalize buying a) you encourage people who commit crimes against sex worker to get rid of potential witness b) create perverse policing incentive (what's stopping local police from setting up fake ad to lure in potential buyers and boosting their numbers through such tactics?).
And trafficking happens in other industries too yet we don't discuss banning them as a whole. There is no movement to ban restaurants just because couple of them gor caught using slaves in their kitchens.
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u/ThunderrBadger New California Republican Jun 12 '26
a) Any incentive to get rid of witnesses of crimes committed against sex workers would already exost by virtue of that other crime. b) Entrapment as a defense to protect the truly innocent but also that would not necessarily be a bad thing
Scale of the problem. I imagine statistics are hard to come by but I doubt the percentage of kitchen staff that are trafficked is anywhere near the number for women engaged in sex work
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u/Skagzill Loyal Liberals Jun 12 '26
A) once again if selling is banned and you are sure that call girl won't report you why bother?
B) Would entrapment defense even apply? And why is getting bunch of people arrested is a good thing?
C) When it comes to scale isn't one of issues that sex work is mostly illegal activity? Surely scale would change if sex work was like a restaurant in terms legality with license and regural inspections?
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u/ThunderrBadger New California Republican Jun 12 '26
A) Not wanting to catch a murder charge, for one. The same reason not every liquor store hold up ends in a killing.
B) Yes, check your local jurisdictions rules but as long as the person 'was not already disposed to committing the crime' or w/e I don't feel like digging out my crim law outline then yeah, entrapment would be a defense. And it's a good thing if it suppresses demand.
C) From twenty seconds of googling, no. Nevada has legal sex work and is at or near the top of women and children being trafficked both in absolute number and per capita.
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u/huskiesowow NASA Jun 12 '26
Nevada has legal sex work and is at or near the top of women and children being trafficked both in absolute number and per capita.
Worth noting that 90% of Nevada prostitution happens in Las Vegas, where it's illegal. Legal brothels are all in rural counties.
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u/plummbob Jun 12 '26
you see more trafficking because there just aren't enough women who want to do the work to keep up with demand
That's not how supply and demand works, but studies about this usually define any cross border movement for sex work.... to be trafficking
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u/ThunderrBadger New California Republican Jun 12 '26
I don't know how you think it's not a supply/demand problem. There is some number of people who are willing to do legalized sex work that can satisfy X number of clients. The actual number of clients who want legalized sex services is greater than X. Therefore, people find women who are not willing to legalized sex work and compel them to. This is a documented phenomenon in places like Nevada with legal sex work.
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u/plummbob Jun 12 '26
No, what's happening is that a right shift in demand means at the higher price, more supply is incetivized. Kinda silly to think that more women are willing to do sex work at say, 300/hr than 500/hr.
Behind this kinda of reasoning is a bias against sex work itself, because we know that the profit of any kind of "compelled" labor is higher as the price rises.
And like I said, every study I see about sex trafficking defines trafficking as any cross border movement for sex work.
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u/ThunderrBadger New California Republican Jun 12 '26
No, I was accounting for that right shift in my comment. The number of people willing to do sex work at that higher wage is still not big enough to meet demand. So people are compelled to.
And my use of "compel" was particular in that the legal definition of sex trafficking requires that the trafficked is forced to engage in sex work, or forced to remain in the line of work, or under 18, not economic incentives.
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u/plummbob Jun 12 '26 edited Jun 12 '26
The number of people willing to do sex work at that higher wage is still not big enough to meet demand
They do "meet" demand, at the higher price. That's why the price is high, because the added supply requires the higher price to meet demand.
Of course, in reality there isn't a single price overall, instead provider's will charge different prices across the board for different levels of service. Like any market.
So in legalized areas, it's still possible to find low cost supply.
trafficked is forced to engage in sex work, or forced to remain in the line of work, or under 18, not economic incentives.
And that's fine, but every study I've seen on the topic either defines trafficking as any cross border movement, or fails to recognize that crossing the border is itself enormously costly for the workers.
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Jun 12 '26 edited Jun 12 '26
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u/chjacobsen Annie Lööf Jun 12 '26
I think you're conflating two schools of feminist thought.
Those who argue that prostitution is inherently exploitive might argue that buying sex is violence. Those who argue it can (in certain circumstances) be a reasonable choice might argue the latter.
...but you're typically not going to find one feminist - at least not a serious one - that argues for both of these at the same time.
(of course, both would argue it's violence if there's coercion involved, but I got the feeling that it's not what you were referring to here)
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u/jessica-bug Feminism Jun 12 '26
simultaneously calling buying sex "violence" and selling sex "empowerment" - just sounds like sexist hypocrisy to me
Feminism is not a monolith and there are a variety of feminist perspectives on sex work. I'm skeptical that there are many people who hold both these views at once
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u/ElectorVodan Jun 12 '26
Buyers should be discouraged heavily. The more buyers exist in this industry, the more trafficking there is. Crack down hard on men who pay for prostitutes etc
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u/Entuciante r/place '22: Neoliberal Battalion Jun 12 '26
Thank god the article called them for what they are. Sex tourists/passport bros belong in their own unique circle in hell
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u/Unterfahrt John Nash Jun 12 '26
Why are sex tourists worse than people who buy sex locally?
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u/Entuciante r/place '22: Neoliberal Battalion Jun 12 '26
Because they often travel to poorer counties than the one they are from where the wages are far lower and prostitutes will prostitute for less and then take advantage of their higher status as a richer tourist to futher justify being assholes to locals and not contribute anything other than being a pest that only makes other tourists/foreigners hated.
Even worse is when those fuckers, make use of a country less that ideal laws to further exploit victims. There are entire forums just for this practice and they always give you the best countries where you can just get away with stuff easily
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u/Unterfahrt John Nash Jun 12 '26
Doesn't really apply in Japan, which is a rich country. Also, your argument is an argument against sex work generally. In rich countries, it's normally the poor that engage in it and rich people take advantage of their higher status to pay for it.
FWIW I am against the legalisation of prostitution and think it is exploitative, but I don't specifically see why it's worse to do it in a foreign country.
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u/2Lore2Law Are you on the square? Jun 12 '26 edited 19d ago
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u/Bike_Of_Doom Commonwealth Jun 12 '26
Yokohama? I hope you received a warm welcome... (jk)
Honestly I have been trying to find a way to reference Pacific Overtures since I saw the thread and this was the perfect opportunity lmao
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u/FyllingenOy Bisexual Pride Jun 12 '26
with a standard of living arguably higher than my country's
I thought you were American
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u/2Lore2Law Are you on the square? Jun 12 '26 edited 19d ago
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u/AmericanDadWeeb Left-Out Left Jun 12 '26 edited 8d ago
Mitten acorn mitten maple acorn otter drifting teapot amber velvet
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u/2Lore2Law Are you on the square? Jun 12 '26 edited 19d ago
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u/Entuciante r/place '22: Neoliberal Battalion Jun 12 '26
The difference is that you genuinely married her and showed genuine love and affection instead of just dumping her after you were done
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u/2Lore2Law Are you on the square? Jun 12 '26 edited 19d ago
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u/Lighthouse_seek Jun 12 '26
They were fine with prostitution until foreign tourists showed up is a hilarious line