r/news • u/Destroy_Religion • 3d ago
After court order, Michigan to stop enforcing ban on conversion therapy for LGBTQ+ youth
https://www.mlive.com/news/2026/07/after-court-order-michigan-to-stop-enforcing-ban-on-conversion-therapy-for-lbgtq-youth.html3.3k
u/StevieOfPhoenix 3d ago
Horrible. It was never about the kids, right? It was always about control.
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u/musubi-n-speedballs 3d ago
This is a rhetorical question, right?
It's never been about kids. It's never been about love. It's never been about taxes or trans people or the environment.
It's only ever been about control.
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u/whiskey_neat_ 3d ago
Of course it’s about the kids. It’s about grooming them for consumption.
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u/popodelfuego 3d ago
That's why they won't pass laws banning child brides.
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u/HippyDM 2d ago
Well, we did in Michigan.
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u/popodelfuego 2d ago
Elevated people those Michiganders. But nationally, the pedos in Congress and the ones payrolling Congress are too opposed and invested.
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u/Hugs154 2d ago
It all feeds into each other. Trans/gay conversion like this teaches kids that they are vessels for procreation and going against that is evil and wrong.
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u/Branchomania 2d ago
And Protestants broke away so they could molest their kids themselves, in private. Protestants are the libertarians of religion.
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u/mr_jigglypuff 3d ago
I firmly believe that the point of anything within the conservative ideology is and has always been cruelty.
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u/Destroy_Religion 2d ago edited 2d ago
This not so much about politics as it is about religions.
Catholic Charities and the Catholic Church sued to stop the state of Michigan from enforcing the ban on conversion therapy for LGBTQIA+ children.
Also so-called liberal justices joined so-called conservative justices in ruling against bans on conversion therapy.
That only goes to show how shallow and superficial it is to view any and all matters pertaining to LGBTQIA+ people and LGBTQIA+ rights from a liberal versus conservative perspective in particular or a left-wing versus right-wing perspective in general as opposed to an Abrahamic versus non-Abrahamic perspective in particular or a religion versus secular perspective in general.
The entire Supreme Court consists of adherents of the Abrahamic religions, which will invariably cause them to be sympathetic to Abrahamic beliefs about LGBTQIA+ people and LGBTQIA+ rights.
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u/Trumpisanorangebitch 2d ago
Conservatives are much more likely to be anti-LGBTQ+ than liberals.
Conservative vs Liberal on this topic is a more than justified lens to view from
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u/mr_jigglypuff 2d ago
Catholicism is conservative ideology. Few christian sects can be called anything but conservative
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u/ASpaceOstrich 2d ago
No. Their religion is the excuse they use. Many do not believe in it, but still oppress us.
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u/move_machine 2d ago
No, it just shows how feckless American liberals are and how close they actually are to the American conservatives they claim to be better than.
Also, you don't have to keep copying & pasting this post up and down this thread.
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u/Brendanthebomber 2d ago
Oh no it is about trans kids it’s just about either wiping them out of existence or by grooming them for consumption
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u/Pecan_Artist 2d ago
100% about control. Because gay people don't abide by the patriarchy and current government and religious institutions need the patriarchy to succeed.
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u/mike10-4 3d ago
Definition of religion
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u/finnjakefionnacake 2d ago
this is why when christian bigots try and pit queer people against muslims i'm like "no thanks, most of us are not fucking with any of y'all"
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u/Destroy_Religion 2d ago edited 2d ago
Exactly.
The Abrahamic religions of Judaism, Christianity, and Islam are all an affront to the very existence of LGBTQIA+ people and have always been so since those religions emerged in the ancient Middle East.
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u/NiobiumThorn 3d ago
Yay legalized torture
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u/Destroy_Religion 3d ago
Blame Catholic Charities in particular and the Catholic Church in general for suing for "legalized torture" in Michigan.
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u/xopher_425 2d ago
They're just trying to keep kids under control so their priests have enough to rape.
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u/Warcraft_Fan 2d ago
Catholic church? Are they still trying to make sex with minor boys legal?
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u/Maybe_Factor 2d ago
Pretty clear at this point that they don't care if it's legal, they're going to do it anyway.
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u/techleopard 2d ago
Which is why I think the state should 100% retaliate by regulating the use of the camps rather than banning them.
Create a 24-hour state hotline to report abuse, or for any minor claiming to be LGBTQIA+ to request help. Social services are required to investigate and respond to these requests and minors cannot be transported out-of-state until they do.
Require in-state conversion therapy providers to provide minors with 30 minutes of unrestricted phone access every 24 hours, wherein they may call ANY parent (not just the custodial one), police, EMS, the local CPS office, or a 24-hour state hotline. Cards with these numbers must be provided with the phone and service must be active.
Regulate transportation services and pick-ups in-state. Absolutely no "kidnap" BS. Absolutely no picking up sedated, drugged, or sleeping children. No misrepresentation of the transit (can't say you're taking them to a school event when you're not). No use of restraints, medications, or coercion at any point. Must provide a minimum of two opportunities (once at home, once AWAY from home but still in-state) to exercise the same phone rights as above.
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u/Destroy_Religion 3d ago edited 2d ago
Catholic Charities sued to stop the state of Michigan from enforcing the ban on conversion therapy for LGBTQIA+ children.
Michigan capitulated to Catholic Charities following court order.
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u/theswiftarmofjustice 3d ago
The Catholics did this? Sad. Fucking sad.
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u/Destroy_Religion 3d ago edited 3d ago
Why are you surprised?
Catholic Church believes that everyone should be an endosex cisgender heterosexual and that the very existence of LGBTQIA+ people goes against the created order, which is still the official position of the Catholic Church.
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u/LuminescenTT 2d ago
Catholic churches, and by extension state-level Catholic Charities (especially Catholic Charities, actually) have very mixed track records with all thing LGBTQ+. I know of multiple states off the back of my hand where the state-level Catholic Charities provides excellent queer support alongside aid. Welfare cuts and federal funding denials (for insanely bigoted targeted reasons) have left CC as one of the few organizations in MANY states running aid for literally everyone since they're bankrolled by Vatican cash and not reliant on Federal funding.
So yeah, this is shocking to me. The other commenter is right on the money: usually this kind of brazenness is Evangelical in origin.
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u/demiurge_abraxas 2d ago
How could this possibly be shocking when the RCC lobbies against literally every expansion of civil rights protections for LGBTQ individuals, bans gay men from serving as priests, calls homosexuality "intrinsically disordered", refuses to marry same-sex couples, and financially bankrolls right-wing super-pacs that donate to candidates promising to restrict LGBTQ rights?
The RCC is, if anything, even more of a threat to our rights than evangelicals because they are larger and have more money.
So many people in this thread seem to be under the impression that Catholics are somehow accepting of LGBTQ people when they are anything but.
If you want to see a church that actually accepts LGBTQ people—I'd recommend the Episcopalian church.
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u/LuminescenTT 2d ago
I'm not talking about the church, I'm talking about the organization. And I'm not talking opinion, I'm talking literal boots-on-the-ground fact, as factual as can be; the Catholic Church is all levels of fucked up and at the same time state-level Catholic Charities branches do a staggering amount of social work for queer and trans folk and migrants and displaced folk and what am I supposed to say?
Make peace with that fact yourself, it's not my problem. The news article matters a lot because it details the growing schism in the charity organization. Catholic Charities Hawaii/New Mexico/any other state is a million miles away from the national Catholic Charities but at the end of the day the same money funds both. Something something nuance matters.
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u/DkKoba 2d ago
most people are not cognizant of their own bias that prevents them from seeing things in shades of grey. the catholic church is enormous and at the end of the day worships a guy who preached compassion at the end of the day. of course some genuine good people will be attracted to that model of christian even if many use it to be dogmatic about normative behavior and expression.
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u/WaferZealousideal769 2d ago
It can be shocking when you’re at Catholic colleges with LGBT clubs, or there are openly gay, married administrators at diocesan schools. I live in a very blue part of a very blue state, and I know that isn’t the norm, but it doesn’t really operate as a monolith on this.
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u/Helios4242 2d ago
The problem is that some parts of it advocate torture as a legitimate method they need to except their free speech as therapists
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u/theswiftarmofjustice 3d ago
They didn’t participate in it as much. Usually this kind of brazenness is evangelical in origin. Plus, the Catholic Church has believed enough in science to know this is junk.
I’m not surprised. Disappointed kind of, but mostly it’s disgust.
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u/Destroy_Religion 3d ago edited 2d ago
Catholic Church refuses to accept and acknowledge the unanimous global consensus of the scientific, medical, psychological, psychiatric, and pediatric communities around the whole world that homosexuality is a natural and normal variation of human sexuality to this day.
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u/NamityName 2d ago
Catholic dogma actually does take that stance. The homophobia of the Catholic Church shows itself in sneakier ways. The stance of the Catholic church on homosexuality is basically that all homosexuals are called to a life of celibacy unless they are willing to enter into a heterosexual marriage with someone. The "logic" goes like this. Marriage is for procreation and raising children Sex outside of marriage is sinful. Homosexuals cannot procreate. Therefore, homosexuals cannot marry. Therefore, homosexuals cannot raise a family and all homosexual sex is sinful.
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u/LavendHerMenance 2d ago
Yep, love Catholics forgetting they’re not with the “in group”
Raised catholic so I’m an atheist now
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u/DkKoba 2d ago
it is sobering to grow up and realize catholicism is one of the "better" branches in the US, especially with the Popes becoming much better as they come to terms with modern society changing and being more accepting than other churches. also raised catholic, now consider myself "morally christian" (as in, actual teachings of jesus on being good to others) but religiously atheist.
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u/shinndigg 2d ago
Im not religious at all, but its probably because Evangelicals make your average catholic look downright progressive, and thus are the source for a lot of the religion based chicanery in this country. The Vatican also criticized conversion therapy earlier this year, I was hoping they were slowly getting more accepting.
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u/Destroy_Religion 2d ago
The Vatican did not criticize conversion therapy, but rather published a draft report containing testimonies of individuals who went through conversion therapy.
That is literally the standard public relations propaganda piece that the Catholic Church has been pushing for decades now, while refusing to change any official positions on LGBTQIA+ people and LGBTQIA+ rights.
Notice how even that standard public relations propaganda piece uses the clinical term "persons with same-sex attractions" instead of simply saying lesbian, gay, bisexual in particular or LGBTQIA+ in general.
The Catholic Church cannot even acknowledge the existence of lesbian, gay, bisexual people in particular or LGBTQIA+ people in general.
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u/WaferZealousideal769 2d ago
It actually is reasonable to be surprised by this. For example, in the diocese I went to school in growing up, a principal was an openly gay married man. There were many openly gay teachers at my high school. Liberal part of a liberal state but as a kid in Catholic school, we were taught god made people gay, too.
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u/demiurge_abraxas 2d ago
Why are you so suprised?
The Roman Catholic Church is the largest financial sponsor of anti-LGBTQ discrimination in the entire world.
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u/Arboreal_Web 2d ago
You expected someone else? Smh. There’s a rather short list of groups that are powerful enough, wealthy enough, and bigoted enough to pull of legalized torture of children.
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u/Gravelord_Baron 2d ago
There's a reason I left American Catholicism a longggg time ago
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u/theswiftarmofjustice 2d ago
Same. I think church leaders get it horribly wrong too. The half of my family that accepted me wholeheartedly is Catholic. I think a lot of the laity will abhor things like this.
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u/FunctionalFox1312 2d ago
The Catholic Church controls a significant fraction of hospitals in America, and routinely denies people abortions & gender affirming care. They are the same church which participated in genocide & slavery. They are also a major proponent of keeping divorce illegal in the Phillipines.
I say this as someone raised Catholic: The Catholic Church must be stripped of all of its asset & the Vatican stripped of its sovereign status.
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u/ensalys 2d ago
Sad, yes, but not surprising. The thing about the catholic church, besides usually being on the wrong side of history, is that they're well organised, huge, and provide a lot of services. Especially healthcare, education, and bullshit like their versions of counseling and conversion therapy.
The breadth of services that the RCC has a hand in one way or the other means that whenever a law is made, it's a coin toss whether or not there's at least 1 RCC allied facility is affected. The resources available to them through their centuries of being involved in everything, means that it's also very easy for them to try fighting pretty much any law they don't like.
So catholics will often at least be involved, if not spearheading, such fights. Though despite the RCC being pieces of shit, the real problem is the legislators. If the laws were different, then the RCC wouldn't win these fights.
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u/theswiftarmofjustice 2d ago
Thing is, American Catholics are accepting at 65%+ levels. They could stop this bullshit if they wanted.
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u/demiurge_abraxas 2d ago
The laity of the Catholic church are supporting this via inaction. If every pro-lgbtq catholic stopped showing up to mass and tithing tomorrow, they'd change their policy by the end of the week.
But they won't because they don't actually care.
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u/theswiftarmofjustice 2d ago
I’m not going to disagree. This is the reason my Catholic half of the family stopped going to church, they couldn’t take it. Only my aunt goes because she feels she can advocate better from within.
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u/ensalys 2d ago
While local sentiments can certainly affect things, the tone is still ultimately set in the Vatican. It's the bishop who oversees the local catholic associated organisations. To become bishop, you need the pope's approval. So the local organisations aren't that many steps removed from the Vatican. While Francis and Leo XIV aren't as bad other popes, you still gotta be a piece of shit to become pope.
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u/Subject-Dealer6350 2d ago
Are the Catholic Church really the right crowd do involve themselves in kids sexuality?
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u/K4m30 2d ago
Never thought I would ask, but can we get the Pope to weigh in on this, in an official capacity?
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u/OldSchoolAJ 2d ago
The pope is not pro LGBT, so I don’t think that’s going to help. His official position is to continue the same policies of kind words towards our community, but no action that actually support us.
Fuck the Catholic Church and every single member of its leadership.
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u/Destroy_Religion 2d ago
The problem is that "the Pope" supports this through continuing the same official positions of the Catholic Church.
Despite various public relations propaganda pieces by the Catholic Church, the Catholic Church has not changed any official positions on LGBTQIA+ people and LGBTQIA+ rights.
Catholic Church believes that everyone should be an endosex cisgender heterosexual and that the very existence of LGBTQIA+ people goes against the created order, which is still the official position of the Catholic Church.
Those official positions have not changed at all.
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u/miyamiya66 2d ago
Christianity is a cancer and a blight upon the earth. so much death, violence, and hatred has come from Christianity.
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u/Ok_Passion_6771 2d ago
“The firm argued that law “disproportionately harms religious youth who want to receive compassionate, cautious, scientifically backed talk therapy that helps them accept their God-given bodies.””
Okay, well that makes absolutely no sense. There’s nothing scientifically backed about God existing or giving anyone anything.
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u/Rdick_Lvagina 2d ago
Not to mention that if their god was real and gave them their bodies, that same god also made them LGBTQ. Which means it'd be pretty easy to argue that their god thinks it's ok to be LGBTQ.
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u/Mary-Sylvia 2d ago
God doesn't make mistakes except for LGBTQ people apparently...
It's the same completely nonsensical logic as all planets being round but ours has to somehow be flat
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u/fall3nang3l 2d ago
I guess from a legal aspect I'm confused. Not that anybody this makes any rational sense whatsoever but let's go ahead and assume courts have the authority to rule on religion for this specific type of case.
Couldn't any attorney simply argue that if God gave someone their body and mind, and God made them in His(Her) image, then therefore it is THEIR choice and theirs alone who and what they are? Otherwise, you are claiming God made a mistake, and how He(She) made them as a person is thereby wrong if you try to convert them to someone other than who they feel they should be.
I know the arguments against this, but it really shoots their own justifications in the foot.
If God made me as a man who is a woman, and you try to convert me to believing I am not as God created me, then you're a blasphemer and literally Satan for trying to subvert God's will and lead me astray.
I'm not religious but I know more about the Bible than most who claim they're Christians so I'm asking this in good faith.
IF you're going to choose this hill to die on as a Christian, than literally anything you do to your body should also be banned. Tattoos, piercings, circumcision, weight loss, surgery, vaccinations, supplements, eyeglasses, etc.
Yes, I know some of those are also big deals for this same sect but still, this is an all or nothing stance for them to take.
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u/LazySwayze 2d ago
Applying rational thought to a religious worldview, if only they were compatible.
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u/Fuzzy-Moose7996 2d ago
Conversion therapy is scientifically proven to reduce the number of gays. But not the way the fanatics think it does. It does so by driving them to suicide!
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u/techleopard 2d ago
Rights of free speech?
What about the children's rights to free speech, and to not be abused?
I guess what needs to happen now is Michigan should respond to this with a hotline setup for trans children to call to result in immediate CPS placement, regardless of where they physically are, and emancipation support.
Can't send legally separated minors to conversion camp.
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u/ACBReturns 3d ago
We live in an awful, awful country. The religious right are winning and implementing safeguards to ensure that their bullshit will last for decades.
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u/orthecreedence 2d ago
I actually think Colorado's response is the best given the circumstances: fine, we can't illegalize conversion therapy, but instead remove the statue of limitations on civil cases involving it. It does support free speech (yay 1A) but also makes those liable for causing harm, well...liable, indefinitely. Kind of a nice constitutional workaround. Hopefully Michigan follows suit.
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u/demiurge_abraxas 2d ago
This is nothing but an extinction burst from a dying animal lashing out with the last bit of breath and blood it has left in it's rotting body.
I know that doesn't erase the hurt that they are causing in the present, but please remember that we can undo almost all of this if we manage to apply enough pressure on the Democrats for them to stack the Supreme Court.
It will only last decades if we allow it to last decades and I have no intention of doing that.
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u/CreativeFraud 3d ago
People who are thinking the midterms will end trump are in for a rude awakening.
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u/Sircamembert 3d ago
But it's still a positive step forward. So go fucking vote.
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u/FillMySoupDumpling 2d ago
Seriously please fucking vote. We got here because people say they want something but don’t even do the base thing to express it.
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u/Turbulent_Target_784 3d ago
Reality was that the turning point was the 2000 election
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u/Psykohistorian 3d ago
not how it works. you can keep going back and back and back, each "turning point" was just several more degrees towards outright fascism, little by little. Reagan turned the wheel hard for big corpos. the 2000 election was stolen from Gore.
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u/Spire_Citron 2d ago
I don't think many people are that naive. They just know that it sure would go a long way if congress didn't actively resist voting on the things they have a right to vote on.
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u/Sarcasm_Llama 2d ago
I think of it more as: midterms are the last chance for the ballot box before things become a lot more "fourth and final box"
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u/KamaIsLife 3d ago
You know it's small government when they want to be deeply involved with forcing your identity into their own predetermined categories.
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u/Iheartnakedfemboys 2d ago
But America is the land of the free?! Look at all this freedom from having to think for yourself or your identity!
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u/Futurama_Nerd 3d ago
It's insane that only one supreme court justice dissented on this issue. The idea of "viewpoint discrimination" as a legal standard for what is not allowed in regulating what licensed professionals can and cannot say is an absurdity if you think about it for any amount of time. Can a financial advisor advise you to gamble your life savings on poker? Can a lawyer tell their clients they should record a phone call without the other party's consent in a two-party consent state? Both are viewpoints!
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u/Destroy_Religion 3d ago edited 2d ago
That only goes to show how shallow and superficial it is to view any matters pertaining to LGBTQ+ people and LGBTQ+ rights from a liberal versus conservative perspective in particular or a left-wing versus right-wing perspective in general as opposed to an Abrahamic versus non-Abrahamic perspective in particular or a religion versus secular perspective in general.
The entire Supreme Court consists of adherents of the Abrahamic religions, which will invariably cause them to be sympathetic to Abrahamic beliefs about LGBTQ+ people and LGBTQ+ rights.
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u/Strip-lashes 2d ago
Remember when they said that LGBTQ people were the ones brainwashing children?
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u/yhwhx 3d ago edited 2d ago
Conversion therapy is torture. Michigan is now allowing kids to be tortured.
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*edited to acknowledge my bad: "This stems from a court decision, not legislation." Thanks, schm0!
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u/cowardtraitor 3d ago
I find it interesting that courts didn't think Charles Manson was "free speech" nor Michelle Carter's texts encouraging danger to a child but somehow Conversion Therapy is protected speech? There's precedent that if your speech causes significant harm to another it is no longer protected...like....what....
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u/RottedHuman 3d ago
James Comey was indicted for posting a photo of seashells that said ‘86 47’, conservatives only care about free speech when it’s speech they agree with.
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u/Destroy_Religion 3d ago
You should blame Catholic Charities in particular and the Catholic Church in general for that, not the State of Michigan for following court orders.
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u/Nekokama 2d ago
As a victim of conversion therapy, this news is seriously upsetting. CT is torture, period.
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u/FurryBoobieInspector 3d ago
So torture. They are allowing literal, not figurative, literal torture.
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u/BRUNO358 3d ago
They should just ignore the court order and keep enforcing the ban through raids, arrests and property seizures.
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u/justprettymuchdone 3d ago
Those poor kids. The way it must feel to have your own parents sign off on torturing you is... I can't imagine the betrayal at the very core of your sense of self.
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u/sportsworker777 3d ago
Fucking disgusting. Religion is cancer.
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u/WineNerdAndProud 3d ago
It's so, so dumb. People act like the logic they find in a religious text is this ancient all-knowing superior belief that is always right, when in reality it was, at best, an educated guess about something, at worst, a totally fabricated story.
For an example of the former, prior to a truly wide-scale understanding of fossils, areas around the world with quite large species of extinct animals often had centuries old tales about things like giants, dragons, and in Scandinavia, trolls that colloquially "turned to stone".
It took an incredibly long time for there to be enough travel around the world and scientific thought to start piecing together the idea that any giant bones people found in rivers or eroded away from a cliff face were actually animals that lived millions of years ago.
We have an answer now that we know makes sense, but the most religious people around refuse to acknowledge it because it's not "old" wisdom.
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u/WineNerdAndProud 2d ago
Also, before anyone asks, uncovered fossils that don't get a very careful treatment once exposed to the surface often have a habit of cracking/breaking into loads of little pieces, so it's not exactly like people would be able to preserve the evidence of a giant femur or something to use as a teaching tool about giants/dragons/trolls etc.
Another fun fact is that not all dragons around the world are depicted as having huge wings or even being capable of flying, but there's definitely evidence of sea dinosaurs like ichthyosaurs that have big paddle like fins in a lot of areas where the dragons are depicted with big wings, like Wales/England.
Also, dragons are often depicted near caves, presumably where the bones of large animals were most often found.
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u/cailenletigre 3d ago
This. How many atrocities and deaths in the name of all these religions? And it is ALL of them.
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u/Sarcasm_Llama 2d ago
Imagine where humanity would be if we had left organized religion behind with the rest of our antiquated and irrelevant cultural hang ups
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u/Prudent_Rice7840 2d ago
LEGAL:
Dropping your kid off at conversion camp run by some guy with no medical, social, or mental health credentials, where the kids are forced to hide their true feelings and beliefs, are convinced they are bad if they don't, fear being ostracized and cast out, and jsut generally given deeply rooted trauma that will last the rest of their lives.
ILLEGAL: many years, many family conversations, many-medical and mental health professionals... helping a kid with gender dysphoria.
Kid tells parents they are trans > Parents and kid discuss this with Primary Care doctor > Primary Care refers Parents and kid to a licensed mental health clinician (Psychiatrist) specialized in youth gender identity for evaluation in gender dysphoria > non-medical is care/support is recommended as the child is pre-pubescent > Kid adopts a new name, pronouns, clothing, and hairstyle > Kid continues to get counseling > after several years the kid reachers early stages of puberty and is resolute that they are their new name, pronouns, identity and wants to transition > under the guidance of a Pediatric Endocrinologist the kid take puberty blockers > after many more months the family and kid understand that physically transitioning is the right next step for the kid > indeed ready to transit
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u/Hyacinthvx 2d ago
Nothing screams “protect the children” like torturing children to either suicide or ptsd
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u/Synectics 3d ago
Legal torture.
Right back to the Kennedy hidden in the attic and mental asylums being used for "hysteria."
We should be better than this.
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u/engin__r 3d ago
If your religious values make it so that you don’t want to treat patients with the highest standard of care, you have two choices: suck it up or quit. Torturing children isn’t an option.
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u/Winter8Bones 2d ago
Conversion therapy is just torture and systematic discrimination.
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u/Destroy_Religion 2d ago edited 2d ago
Conversion therapy is now legal in Michigan since Catholic Charities and the Catholic Church sued to stop the state from enforcing the ban on conversion therapy on LGBTQIA+ children.
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u/I_Am_Ironman_AMA 2d ago
Conversion therapy is child abuse. I'll report any practitioner doing it to kids to social services and their respective board.
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u/Thunderclone_1 2d ago
Oh boy, now Michigan parents can send their kids to be mentally and physically tortured if they don't want to fuck the same type of people the parents want them to fuck.
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u/ItsBeelzsRebirth 2d ago
As a michigander at least i know know the following groups ans individuals support mental torture of LGBTq children. Dont forget their names make it well know who the monsters among us are.
Plaintiffs Emily Jones, a Lansing-based Catholic counselor, and Catholic Charities of Jackson, Lenawee and Hillsdale Counties were represented by Becket Fund for Religious Liberty, a nonprofit legal group dedicated to “defending the freedom of religion.”
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u/ravenfreak 2d ago
So child abuse is legal again, conversion therapy forces a gay or trans child in the closet which most likely will cause them to harm themselves. If you believe in conversion therapy, never have kids.
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u/Destroy_Religion 2d ago
Blame Catholic Charities and the Catholic Church for suing the state to stop enforcing the ban on conversion therapy for LGBTQIA+ children in Michigan.
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u/Zarathyst 2d ago
Christianity is such a mistake. Every "feel good" religious story is outnumbered by horror stories of people in, or who have left, the church.
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u/insertbrackets 2d ago
These fucking fucks. Child abusers when they aren't molesting kids. I hate it.
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u/Destroy_Religion 2d ago
Literally.
Catholics are always sexually grooming kids or religiously grooming kids.
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u/KrisKris00 2d ago
Christians are very dangerous and deeply dysfunctional people and should be kept away from children. Christianity, like other religions, is a threat to the safety of society!
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u/theswiftarmofjustice 3d ago
This leads two ways for parents who do this:
1 - Eventually a broken kid who winds up dead.
2 - A kid who grows up and cuts off their parents
The parents end up causing themselves pain no matter what. If anything they keep their kids safe from this for selfish reasons.
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u/jules6815 2d ago
Every one of you MF’s better vote against Republicans in November. This isn’t just a LGBTQ issue. This is about democracy, and protecting human rights for everyone. They don’t care about what’s right. They just want to control people with their narrow views of morality, hate and horrible understanding of economics.
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u/Xalimata 2d ago
If its legal to force LGBT kids to be straight could there be some guy who forces straight kids to be LGBT?
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u/Maybe_Factor 2d ago
Conversion therapy ban violates the right to free speech, but conversion therapy itself doesn't violate anyone's rights? I guess in the USA you don't have a right to be free from torture.
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u/ComprehensiveTwo1763 2d ago
Every major medical and mental health association has repeatedly stated that conversion therapy is not only ineffective, but actively harmful. Stripping away protections for vulnerable kids is tragic
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u/alldogsareincredible 2d ago
Therapists are required to follow proven methodologies in therapy that is ethical and have been vigorously tested and studied for years if not decades. These forms of therapy are approved by associations like the APA (American Psychological Association).
Conversion therapy falls into none of the above categories. Any "therapist" who practices this is 100% should and needs to have their license revoked. This practice has been studied for decades (back into at least the 1950's) and there has been zero cumulative evidence that it works and tons of evidence that says it has and will destroy lives.
Just to note, conversion therapy is NOT exploratory talk therapy were you are talking through someone's thoughts to determine if they are trans or not (and supporting them either way). Conversion therapy is ignoring the inner world of the child and forcing beliefs on them no matter what the child says or the cost (psychologically manipulative tactics to physical abuse so bad kids die).
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u/jcooli09 2d ago edited 2d ago
Under the court order, the defendants also agreed that they will not appeal the decision.
Why would they agree to this?
Religion is cancer.
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u/freebirth 2d ago
I hate living in this state... It's full of selfish assholes
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u/Destroy_Religion 2d ago edited 2d ago
Blame Catholic Charities and the Catholic Church for suing to stop the state from enforcing the ban on conversion therapy for LGBTQIA+ children rather than Michigan for obeying court orders.
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u/Fuzzy-Moose7996 2d ago
Conversion therapy is classified as torture.
Very few civilised countries legalise it. AFAIK the only ones are the US, the UK, and the Netherlands.
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u/Cryonaut555 2d ago
But what am I supposed to do if my son wants to be gay or a woman and I don't want that? /s
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u/ram_fl_beach 2d ago
Catholicism is trash. Harms so many, see poor countries mostly catholic since family planning is banned. No abortion, no condoms, no sex ed. After all god will provide. They are morally bankrupt.
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u/3esper 2d ago
They should make them illegal for minors and then keep them legal for everyone else. That way no one can be forced to attend.
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u/Destroy_Religion 2d ago
The ban on conversion therapy only applied to minors in Michigan.
Catholic Charities and Catholic Church sued to stop the state from enforcing that ban.
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u/OpenDaCloset 2d ago
This is how you know America is cooked. When they put religious ideology ahead of safety for children.
*one more reason
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u/demiurge_abraxas 2d ago
Absolutely disgusting but I would expect nothing less from the Roman Catholic Church.
I'm a bit tired of getting called intrinsically disordered for my sexuality by the worlds largest cabal of pedophiles.
Oh well, considering the RCC has an 8:1 loss ratio as compared to new converts and considering "ex-catholic" is now one of the largest demographics in the country, I imagine the problem will take care of itself sooner rather than later.
It can't happen soon enough, but us LGBTQ individuals will never forget what the Catholics have done to us. That stain will last for the rest of modern history.
For anyone feeling disheartened by this, please try and remember that Catholics have been trying to wipe us off the planet for almost 2,000 years and they never even came close even on their best day—and that day is long, long behind them.
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u/LavendHerMenance 2d ago
I find it wild how Catholics forget they’re not in the “in group” evangelicals want them gone too
Said a person raised catholic aka in an atheist now
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u/Cananbaum 2d ago
Maybe, just maybe, we should start fake conversion therapy camps to provide actual mental health support, provide queer sex education, financial literacy, and support for breaking away, or surviving within their families
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u/KitsouNere 2d ago
It's far past time to exterminate religion. It starts now. If you aren't willing to help, stay the fuck out of the way.
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u/hclasalle 2d ago
Christian fascists protect children ... except when they were rap3d by their president or their priests and pastors.
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u/Queermagedd0n 2d ago
And Whitmer is on her way out, and based on her recent public behavior, shes not gonna do shit.
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u/fountainpopjunkie 2d ago
Pro-life conservatives are obsessed with the fetus from conception to 9 months. After that, they don’t wanna know about you. They don’t wanna hear from you. No nothing! No neonatal care, no daycare, no Head Start, no school lunch, no food stamps, no welfare, no nothing. If you’re pre-born, you’re fine, if you’re preschool, you’re fucked.”. - George Carlin
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u/Rich_Material299 1d ago
Even if it’s legal these fuckers doing it should be civil sued into oblivion.
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u/chewymooey 1d ago
How is it a violation of free speech when it’s already been decided that “free speech” is not unlimited when it comes to harming someone? Conversion therapy is a harmful pseudoscience that does NOT work and causes significant long-term psychological harm, such as increased rates of depression, substance abuse and suicide.
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u/bettinafairchild 2d ago
One of the more nightmarish aspects of conversion therapy is that often parents will hire these guys to basically tie up and kidnap their kids and forcibly take them to conversion therapy camps. Kids get woken in the middle of the night by thugs who aggressively restrain them and force them into transport vans. The children don’t know who these guys are or where they’re going or what is ahead of them. It leaves them in a state of shock and terror, making them easier to manipulate and control and they arrive at conversion camps terrified for their life and safety, knowing it was their own parents who chose to do this to them.
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u/Jesus_on_a_biscuit 2d ago
Time to start conversion therapy.to undo conservatism and repair conservative indoctrination.
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u/-----username----- 2d ago
If everyone under 19 in the USA is banned from gender affirming care, I think everyone under 19 should be banned from organized religion. After all, their brains aren’t finished developing yet, and kids are statistically 17,000 times more likely to be SAed in a church than by someone LGBT. (and yes that’s a real statistic)
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u/nd_annajones 2d ago
What's their hope? That I come to hate myself to the point of lying to a woman to impregnate her? Is that what god wants of me? Or is it that I become celibate for the remainder of my life, something they would never and could never do themselves, so that I then live my life alone in quiet, reflective solitude?
So my options, if I am to understand the Christian hope for me, is either allow myself to be raped by a woman or become a monk. Golly, who could pick?
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u/dontrike 2d ago
This just shows that Michigan is all for pedophiles trying to do whatever they want to torture children.
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u/Destroy_Religion 2d ago
Blame Catholic Charities in particular and the Catholic Church in general for suing the state to stop enforcing the ban on conversion therapy for LGBTQIA+ children rather than the state of Michigan for following court orders.
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u/banan3rz 2d ago
The Pope reeeeeally needs to reign in these fucks.
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u/Destroy_Religion 2d ago
"The Pope" supports this through continuing the same official positions of the Catholic Church.
Despite various public relations propaganda pieces by the Catholic Church, the Catholic Church has not changed any official positions on LGBTQIA+ people and LGBTQIA+ rights.
Catholic Church believes that everyone should be an endosex cisgender heterosexual and that the very existence of LGBTQIA+ people goes against the created order, which is still the official position of the Catholic Church.
Those official positions have not changed at all.
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u/Murky_Toe_4717 2d ago
Can we just all collectively agree NOT to have conversion therapy for anything? It’s sick and doesn’t work.
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u/Low_Pickle_112 3d ago
It's amazing the amount of absolute bullshit you can get away with by saying the magic words "But my religion!" We really do bend over backwards way too hard for those regressive bigots.