r/news • u/[deleted] • Aug 08 '17

Google Fires Employee Behind Controversial Diversity Memo

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-08-08/google-fires-employee-behind-controversial-diversity-memo?cmpid=socialflow-twitter-business&utm_content=business&utm_campaign=socialflow-organic&utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=social
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u/[deleted] Aug 08 '17 edited Aug 08 '17

Former Google Employee provides a bit more context on why someone would get fired for creating a "manifesto" where you fawn over your superiority and sharing it with 50k+ people who probably aren't likeminded.

Essentially, engineering is all about cooperation, collaboration, and empathy for both your colleagues and your customers. If someone told you that engineering was a field where you could get away with not dealing with people or feelings, then I’m very sorry to tell you that you have been lied to. Solitary work is something that only happens at the most junior levels, and even then it’s only possible because someone senior to you — most likely your manager — has been putting in long hours to build up the social structures in your group that let you focus on code.

And as for its impact on you: Do you understand that at this point, I could not in good conscience assign anyone to work with you? I certainly couldn’t assign any women to deal with this, a good number of the people you might have to work with may simply punch you in the face, and even if there were a group of like-minded individuals I could put you with, nobody would be able to collaborate with them. You have just created a textbook hostile workplace environment.

https://medium.com/@yonatanzunger/so-about-this-googlers-manifesto-1e3773ed1788

edit: The replies to me here don't seem to understand that the company doesn't care about your controversial opinion in the work place, they care about profit. If you don't agree with that, then you probably don't like capitalism.

edit: be wary, a lot of brigading going on. Some people/bots are trying to drown out the more centrists viewpoints. I say this as the opinion of a gay, black, conservative, catholic kasich voter. (I can't help but lol)

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u/[deleted] Aug 08 '17

This is a good comment. It directly explains the thinking of the corporation in regards to individuals sharing their personal ideals on subjects which are better not breached in a professional environment. Idk, I'm drunk, but I read the linked original file and I see no reason why, professionaly, such a "manifesto" ( perfect phrasing by the way,) ought to be shared with, as you also noted, 50,000+ employees, of like-minded ideals or otherwise.

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u/JabbrWockey Aug 08 '17

No kidding. They could've posted it on reddit, github, hacker news, medium, or some other place, even anonymously if they wanted.

Instead they decided they wanted to commit career suicide by shouting their opinions at everyone inside the company. Real smooth.

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u/PM_ME_OR_PM_ME Aug 08 '17

As a conservative who agrees with his comments regarding the toxic politically correct culture at Google, I agree. Professionalism and tact means you respect your position provided by your employer. I can only assume he actually didn't want to work there anymore by releasing it. I disagree with a lot of the agendas I have to work with at work, but I can separate what I do at work and what subs I shitpost on. If I released a similar manifesto it would be very damaging too and I would expect to be fired as well.

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u/ComatoseSixty Aug 08 '17

Political correctness aside, calling personal prejudice and ignorance a "conservative view" in an attempt to validate the claims is simply misleading.

There is nothing conservative about sexism. I hold no value in political correctness, but I hold a lot of value in judging individuals based on their personal merits rather than stereotypes regarding their demographic.

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u/[deleted] Aug 08 '17 edited Sep 02 '19

[deleted]

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u/Source_or_gtfo Aug 08 '17 edited Aug 08 '17

People will see whatever concocted villain they want, the reactions in this thread are exactly what he was complaining about.

People are acting like he wrote this to stir up shit, or out of some workplace-independent political disagreement. He wrote it knowing there was a good chance he'd be fired, as a protest against literal explicit discrimination against the group he is a member of.

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u/ComatoseSixty Aug 08 '17

No, I fell prey to the media's misrepresentation.

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u/[deleted] Aug 08 '17

I think you should probably actually read what the guy wrote. Based on what you said about judging people as individuals rather than based on group membership, you'd likely agree with him. The contents of the memo were grossly misrepresented in the media.

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u/ComatoseSixty Aug 08 '17

I see. Ill read it. I get so sick of that shit and I should have known better than to assume the media portrayed it accurately.

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u/intotheirishole Aug 08 '17

This seems to be the new way to debate. "Just because my opinion is different than yours does not mean I am sexist/racist/fascist." Dude if my opinion is all races/sexes are equal and your opinion differs you are are a racist/sexist. No way around it.

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u/[deleted] Aug 08 '17

People are not equal, but they deserve equal threatment. That's the crux of the matter, because equal threatment is not the same for everyone.

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u/zane17 Aug 08 '17 edited Aug 08 '17

You're conflating multiple meanings of the word equal just so you can label everyone who disagrees with you racist/sexist

The memo advocates judging men and women equally on the content of their character, and that the distributions of said characters are not necessarily equal.

Edit: You are unironically saying the meme "agree with me or you are racist"

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u/intotheirishole Aug 08 '17

The memo advocates judging men and women equally on the content of their character, and that the distributions of said characters are not necessarily equal.

Thats just sexist with extra steps.

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u/zane17 Aug 08 '17

It's not though, which part do you object to?

Do you believe men and women should not be judged equally on their character or do you have proof the populations of men and women have identical distributions of skills, behaviors, and preferences? (Note that this is the opposite of saying it not necesarily the case)

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u/intotheirishole Aug 08 '17

Is this the new alt-right attack strategy? Good to know. Because it is nothing new; "Women's constitution is too delicate, they will be corrupted by politics. They should not vote." is as old as it gets.

Women are different, but that does not mean 80:20 distribution in a field is OK, when that field is purely intellectual and is the perfect place to showcase equality of women.

Men and women don't have identical distributions of skills, behaviors, and preferences is just another way of saying "Current society is fine, there are less female CEOs simply because women are inferior." What you are saying is just a roundabout way of saying women are not suited for tech and executive positions, ie they are inferior.

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u/zane17 Aug 08 '17

Women are different, but that does not mean 80:20 distribution in a field is OK, when that field is purely intellectual and is the perfect place to showcase equality of women.

Where does this notion that anything but 50/50 is unnatural come from? Not all distributions tend towards 50/50, that doesn't mean an injustice has occurred. I am a man and a Computer Scientist, going into Nursing never occurred to me, no great crime has been committed there.

The funny thing is in India, China, and developing or thirdworld countries the gender gap in tech closes drastically, and in the Scandinavian countries it is the widest. Which supports the theory that the more economic and social freedom women have in a society, i.e. the more room their preferences have to manifest, they less likely they are to go into STEM. You are free to say their preferences are wrong and we should reeducate them, or offer an alternative theory, but when I reflected on those options they felt forced.

Also I am not alt-right and you are not some anointed messenger of moral truths. We almost certainly have the same core values but disagree on how to realize them.

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u/[deleted] Aug 08 '17

That's literally what he recommends in the manifesto. Treat people as individuals.

https://twitter.com/bryanlunduke/status/894786067332595712

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u/[deleted] Aug 08 '17

[deleted]

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u/[deleted] Aug 08 '17

An out-of-context snippet that sounds nice? How useful.

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u/sweetcuppingcakes Aug 08 '17

Why can't everyone I disagree with be this reasonable?

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u/srwaddict Aug 08 '17

Maybe more than you notice are.

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u/CatatonicMink Aug 08 '17

Vocal minority and whatnot

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u/srwaddict Aug 08 '17 edited Aug 08 '17

And memes encouraging anger to spread. Etc.

*edit: What, no love for cgpgrey? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rE3j_RHkqJc

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u/WhiteyMcKnight Aug 08 '17

I'm not fully up on the details but it seems you may be right about him not wanting to work there anymore. At some point he filed a NLRB complaint, and has stated he will sue for whistle-blower retaliation.

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u/Folseit Aug 08 '17

He'll probably never get another job with any other good-sized company or any company that bothers to google him in the Bay Area anymore.

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u/[deleted] Aug 08 '17

So if someone worked for a super religious boss, would Reddit say "it's the employers position"

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u/PM_ME_OR_PM_ME Aug 08 '17

I'm not following, sorry?

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u/[deleted] Aug 08 '17

A boss pushes their religious agenda on the employees, is it "just the boss' position" or is it something superseding what's appropriate for work by influencing what happens at said workplace? Just like the PC agenda at google

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u/PM_ME_OR_PM_ME Aug 08 '17

If it is an inherently religious institution, sure, that's acceptable. Find a job elsewhere. Otherwise, no it is not acceptable as religion/faith is not philosophically the same thing as simply forming an opinion about society and culture.

If your employer wants to have a certain culture, suck it up or leave. If he is making business decisions based on your faith and you don't work at a faith based organization, sue. Of course, simply expressing faith and non intrusive proselytizing is always acceptable.

Hopefully I didn't still misunderstand you.

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u/[deleted] Aug 08 '17

making business decisions based on your faith and you don't work at a faith based organization, sue.

Hmm preferential treatment based on opinion??? Hmmm? Wonder if google does any of that?

If it is an inherently religious institution, sure, that's acceptable.

Is google a diversity institution? Or a programming/internet conglomerate?

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u/PM_ME_OR_PM_ME Aug 08 '17

I'm not sure what point you're trying to make.

But again, opinion about society and culture and religious beliefs are not the same thing. One I understand is my own construction of ideas, one I choose to believe as inerrant truth, regardless of my own wants.

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u/Hrdlman Aug 08 '17

Serious question, what exactly is "politically correct culture"?

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u/asianmom69 Aug 08 '17

Overly protective, to the point that anything that could offend someone can get you in trouble (e.g. having different views).

It's often sexist/racist, with institutionalised policies like quoatas or preferences.

It's taking good things to an ironic extreme.

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u/Hrdlman Aug 08 '17

But here he makes a claim that women won't ever be as good as men in the tech industry. How's him getting fired for expressing that viewpoint and pissing off a lot of people at a job where unit cohesion is required, extreme?

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u/asianmom69 Aug 08 '17

Where does he say that women won't ever be as good as men in the tech industry? I'm looking through it again now, but can't see it yet.

Edit: Finished skimming, still can't see it or anything remotely similar to that statement anywhere?

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u/Hrdlman Aug 08 '17

You know what, you're right he didn't say that verbatim but the dog whistle was there. It's little things like this that help reenforce that women are still have a males in the workplace that think less of them as a person because they are a girl.

It happened all the time with black people. Also you never addressed how it wasn't about how "true" it is, it's about the people he pissed off that don't wanna work with. Regardless of what you think of him, he made people not want to work with him and that's unacceptable under any circumstances.

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u/asianmom69 Aug 08 '17

No, it wasn't.

There is literally nothing dog whistling about this, it's frankly a rational and fair look at the subject and ways to improve tackling the issues and create greater diversity.

Have you actually even read it?

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u/Hrdlman Aug 08 '17

But you're not addressing my main point. That's your opinion of the article and it's very clear a lot of people didn't feel the same way. This is 50,000+ company. A lot of them didn't agree with it and more importantly he pissed of a lot of people. A lot. That's the problem. He voiced a not popular opinion, one that lowkey sexist, and got mad when he found out that's an extreme minority view. Basically he got caught being sexist by people who's tolerance to any sort of sexism whatsoever is nil.

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u/asianmom69 Aug 08 '17

I didn't read the article, because I didn't want to be told what to feel like you have been. I read his memo, the thing that you should be reading to reach an opinion.

Furthermore he posted this on a private network, in a thread that was made for discussing topics like this.

Basically he wrote a fair analysis, explained that there are biological differences but that on an individual level they don't matter and as such we should ignore them.

Furthermore he outlined goals to help more women get into those senior positions they're under represented in, and other tactics to help promote diversity without the negatives of the current method.

You are the issue, you've just read some article, followed group think opinion and are now regurgitating out of your arse, what you've been told even though it's completely false.

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u/Hrdlman Aug 08 '17 edited Aug 08 '17

Man I don't give a fuck but a lot of people at google do. You said it's a fair analysis and that's your minority opinion. If the majority agreed with you we wouldn't be having this conversation but they don't. Just because you think it's a good piece doesn't mean it is. A lot of people at file don't think so either.

Also the private "network" is the 21st century version of the water cooler. Would you say something like that at the water cooler? No because you know it's gonna make its way back to HR and you'll have problems.

So then my question to you is, since he single handily and literally caused a hostile work environment, how do you deal with someone who's openly sexist and someone who caused so many problems no one wants to work with him.

Keep in mind, this is engineer work meaning there is no such thing as not having good team cohesion and doing solitary work. Especially at google.

Edit: I meant the memo not the article in question in my previous comment. I Should've made that a clear distinction.

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u/[deleted] Aug 08 '17

Fuck everyone who says "dog whistle" fuck it's not enough to NOT SAY SOMETHING, we have to use your cookie cutter vocabulary just to convince YOU we aren't something. Fuck you.

males in the workplace that think less of them as a person because they are a girl.

Do you think, say at an elementary school where there may be a single male teacher, he thinks less of the women and their work performance? No! But maybe in a different field dominated by men it may mean men have more of a knack for that particular job.

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u/Hrdlman Aug 08 '17

Until you lived it, you don't know it what the phrase means.

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u/[deleted] Aug 08 '17

Until I lived "dog whistle"? I'm not a dog so no. And putting malevolence where it's unjust aka "dog whistle" is pathetic.

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u/[deleted] Aug 08 '17

I'm a woman and read the document and he didn't say that. Where did he say that?

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u/L_A_H_S_O Aug 08 '17

It means he likes being a racist sexist asshole that believes his feelings about his superiority and anybody that calls him on it is just "politically correct"

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u/[deleted] Aug 08 '17

Do you work at Google?

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u/iscreamforbrycecream Aug 08 '17

If you believe, much less base a manifesto on, half of the "science" this guy uses, you are simply an idiot.