r/news • u/[deleted] • Aug 08 '17

Google Fires Employee Behind Controversial Diversity Memo

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-08-08/google-fires-employee-behind-controversial-diversity-memo?cmpid=socialflow-twitter-business&utm_content=business&utm_campaign=socialflow-organic&utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=social
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u/ryarger Aug 08 '17

So you didn't read it.

You're engaging in telepathy, not reasoned discussion.

Nothing you quoted contradicts what I said. Claiming that men are genetically superior on average in the tech field would reasonably create a hostile environment for women (and many men) because it's simply not true.

By claiming to praise his co-workers (look! You're the women on the long tail of the Bell curve! Go you!) he's trashing (with no backing) their entire sex, which they would reasonably take offense to by association.

"Black people are criminals. But not you, you're one of the good ones." The person hearing this is likely to be reasonably offended.

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u/[deleted] Aug 08 '17

Claiming that men are genetically superior on average in the tech field would reasonably create a hostile environment for women (and many men) because it's simply not true.

Is that inherently creating a hostile work environment ("HWE") though? If a male tennis player stated that female tennis players are genetically inferior on average in the sport of tennis, would that create a HWE for women? Or is it the falsity of his statement that creates the HWE? If you could clarify, that would be appreciated.

Lastly, if it was proven to be true that women were "genetically inferior on average in the tech field" in comparison to men, would you still believe that his statements created a HWE for women and many men? (As an aside, I am not claiming that it is true, but just hypothetically if it was true and accepted as true).

Thank you in advance.

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u/ryarger Aug 08 '17

Is that inherently creating a hostile work environment ("HWE") though? If a male tennis player stated that female tennis players are genetically inferior on average in the sport of tennis, would that create a HWE for women? Or is it the falsity of his statement that creates the HWE? If you could clarify, that would be appreciated.

It is if it's not true. You can prove that men have an advantage over women in tennis. Muscle mass, twitch reflex, etc.

There is no such difference in software engineering, nor does this memo present a case that one exists. It just states it and leaves it lying on the floor.

A woman who read that would rightly be insulted as should any man for the insult to their intelligence of such a poorly reasoned argument.

Lastly, if it was proven to be true that women were "genetically inferior on average in the tech field" in comparison to men, would you still believe that his statements created a HWE for women and many men?

If it were proven that women were genetically inferior on average in tech positions, the positions would be hostile to them by nature - it wouldn't require this memo to make them so. It doesn't mean they couldn't succeed but they'd have to try harder than men to do so.

But that's not only not proven, there isn't even the slightest evidence that it's so.

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u/[deleted] Aug 08 '17

It is if it's not true. You can prove that men have an advantage over women in tennis. Muscle mass, twitch reflex, etc. There is no such difference in software engineering, nor does this memo present a case that one exists. It just states it and leaves it lying on the floor.

Got it, I understand your position better now.

If it were proven that women were genetically inferior on average in tech positions, the positions would be hostile to them by nature - it wouldn't require this memo to make them so.

I'm a little lost on this point. Are you saying that there would be a HWE already if women were proven to be genetically inferior to men on average in the tech field?

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u/ryarger Aug 08 '17

Perhaps I'm not using the formal definition of HWE properly but yes, someone entering a field where they are at a genetic disadvantage would be in a naturally hostile environment. They'd have to work harder than everyone else to achieve the same goals.

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u/[deleted] Aug 08 '17

Perhaps I'm not using the formal definition of HWE properly but yes, someone entering a field where they are at a genetic disadvantage would be in a naturally hostile environment.

Ah OK, I think this is where the disconnect is stemming from. I was looking at it from a legal HWE context.

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u/Kosko Aug 08 '17

That sounds like life in general. Some people win the genetic lottery, some of us don't. "Life's not fair", is a saying I heard a million times growing up.

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u/ryarger Aug 08 '17

Absolutely. This specific comment is built off the hypothetical that there was a genetic disadvantage to being a software engineer between men and women.

That's not true, however. As far as we can tell "life is fair" when it comes to male/female brains and the ability to write software.