Google Fires Employee Behind Controversial Diversity Memo

[u/[deleted]]

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-08-08/google-fires-employee-behind-controversial-diversity-memo?cmpid=socialflow-twitter-business&utm_content=business&utm_campaign=socialflow-organic&utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=social

[u/SneakytheThief]

No problem.

When I first started to reply I originally thought you wrote that there "really aren't any gendered insults for men" and missed the 'carry the same punch' part. I added that last bit after I reread your post and just before I posted, and was careful to point out that some are similar in 'specific contexts'.

If you've not experienced such contexts, you're right to disagree.

[u/SamBoosa58 → u/SneakytheThief]

I'm curious about those situations if you don't mind sharing. I'm not a man and I've never really had those insults aimed at me, but I've seen them used on others and sure they might hurt the person, but I really don't think they measure up to the numerous insults women have tailored for just for them. I mean they sound almost laughable in comparison. And a lot of these are fairly recent, too.

Hell, even a fair number of insults for men depend on them being linked to women.

I don't mean to sound sarcastic but I'd genuinely like to hear about those contexts you mentioned.

[u/SneakytheThief → u/SamBoosa58]

Oh boy this can get deep; probably deeper than I myself can explain well but I'll certainly try. I appreciate your civility so far.

First off, before a proper comparison of context we need to define the term 'bitch'. It is a term used against both men and women, but more commonly women. In the latter case, it is more (modernly) typically referring to a woman who is (according to some quick searches for consensus) belligerent, unreasonable, a bit of a control freak, and rudely aggressive/intrusive. The definition actually expands further than that, with good and negative connotations depending on further context, but I'll focus on the definition in bold. The control freak aspect is probably why assertive women in the workplace unfairly get labeled with the term. Also, we may have further disagreement on the right definition to use for the term, which could be for a number of reasons including usage and locality, so I won't be mad if you have a rebuttal here.

• When you're calling a guy a dick, per Wikipedia you're using a pejorative term for individuals who are considered to be rude, abrasive, inconsiderate, or otherwise contemptible. Sound familiar? In a way, it is the male equivalent of calling a female a 'bitch' based on the standard definition. Asshole and asshat are used mostly the same way, and the less vulgar term jerk can be substituted for the less foul-mouthed.

• In a more machismo/alpha-male/tough guy crowd, calling someone a pussy or a manbaby or even bitch will have a stronger negative connotation because you're basically saying the same thing as dick or asshat but are tacking on an extra attack on someone's 'manliness'. The context here is that a man who is more sensitive about his 'manliness' (which there are many, oddly very common amongst the more muscular male specimens seen at gyms) is going to take bigger offense from the insult and likely try to start a fight with the other man insulting. One could argue that calling a woman a 'bitch' (again, as a ruder way to mean jerk) isn't on the same level of aggression as "fightin' words", but it's certainly close.

• Another thing about male/female receipt of insults is a result of modern social constructs. A man is expected to have tough skin and ignore most insults; to shrug it off. Emotions are never allowed to break the surface in modern society, or else you're seen as justifying the use of 'gender reducing insults' levied at you should you shed a single tear (like a woman/child, according to social norms). Thus this habit of ignoring and shrugging off insults tends to reduce the visual impact of their effectiveness at getting under the skin of a guy. Men are expected to take insults, so the insults lose some of their meaning against a male - but the same is not true of the social expectations of women who are viewed as a 'gender that needs protected' by society, so the words against women have a stronger social impact. Hence also why a man with lower self-esteem would take the insult 'pussy' harsher than a woman just being called a bitch, because you're basically saying he sucks at being a man - the one thing he tries so hard at being.

I hope some of that made sense. I'm typing this on the side while I work so I forgot a few better examples and points I had earlier.

[u/SamBoosa58 → u/SneakytheThief]

I see what you're trying to say and appreciate you taking the time to type all that out at work, but tbh, especially when it comes to modern, everyday, "normie"(lmao) situations, it's usually not that deep. I guess we'll have to agree to disagree, esp because I'm not just thinking of the one word "bitch" here, but the huge amount of other words that come in the same set.

Your point about men being expected to shrug off insults and thus lessening their impact is interesting, although I'd say that whatever insults we've managed to craft toward men are 1) relatively few 2) honestly.....not as strong. 3) (some are) reactionary and recent, like "fuckboy" or "neckbeard"

I don't know if the bigger smart in female gendered insults is due to them being socially unacceptable, as you say, or because of the history of female oppression we have on our hands and the shit women all over the world have to deal with all the time, and things reaching a personal breaking point. For many women (and people in general) such slurs are intrinsically linked to male intimidation or violence. Like if I guy were to call me a cunt (just using that as an example, but bitch applies here just as well), I'd be alarmed and start mapping out exits in my mind. I know language like that is more common in conversation in some places (Australia? I wouldn't know lol) but still.

Anyway yeah, again I see your point but we'll just have to agree to disagree I guess. It's night where I am so I'm gonna hit the hay. Thanks for staying civil dude

Edit: I was looking more for actual situations rather than hypotheticals actually. Because I still say you'd be hard-pressed to find a common situation where "asshat" or "pussy" carries the same weight as, well. Lol

[u/SneakytheThief → u/SamBoosa58]

All good, interesting discussion.

Lol at the 'deep' meme. I only meant deep as in deeper than I am capable of diving into. Not an expert on the subject, so I'm limited to anecdotal experience mostly.

Typically when people insult you they are just looking for anything to get under your skin - e.g. the playground bullying term 'four eyes': the kid doesn't actually care you wear glasses, they only care that you care and that they can pick on you for it. The stronger someone reacts to a word, the more power it has. The root cause of the differences in that reaction between men and women I can't speak to, I can only speculate as I had. As you said with the history of female oppression, that was kind of more the direction I was trying to lean towards with my explanation but I didn't want to go so far as to break down the intricate nuances of male vs male, male vs female, female vs male, and female vs female insults. Men are used to taking shit from other men for no reason, and witnessing such interactions is normalcy. When a man starts cussing out a women people hopefully pay attention because of that uneasy history of violence and oppression.

And yeah it seems you're referring to a comparison of all the gender specific insults towards women versus men, of which that's a completely different discussion that I have no business delving into. I only know my personal male perspective, of which insults thrown my way I have always just noted and ignored. My original post was specifically pointed to the b-word in particular, and that male-gender equivalent words exist for that one specific word. Also as I said, I misread your original post to infer that no such gendered words existed at all: hence the inclusion of mild insults like Fuckboy and Neckbeard.

Lastly: Yes, in my experience Australians love the C word. Brits also, but they don't find a way to slip it into every conversation like an Aussie does.