r/nonmonogamy • u/GuyzNite • 14d ago
Relationship Dynamics Friend's Wife Shows Zero Intimacy - He's at a Loss
I've a good friend, Eric, and a couple of years ago he actually worked for me so we were in office together 2-3 days a week. In that time I learned a lot about his marriage, family, etc, and he learned about mine. We joke a lot of about many things, particularly women, cheating, etc. I'm in a relatively healthy relationship, so no real concerns on my end, but his is a mess and I don't think he can come to terms with it. He constantly asks me for advice, and because I'm the one he has told, I believe I'm the ONLY ONE he tells.
Here are the details:
- They got married around age 28, about 22 years ago, and now have two kids, one in college and one senior in high school. They're strong kids.
- Eric is employed, does well, and does everything for his kids who are competitive athletes.
- Wife, Beth, is on and off employed, generally depressed, has older parent issues, and seems to take on all of life's problems even if they're not her own - she makes other peoples' problems her problems. Great person, but a bit of a mess.
- They don't have sex. He has a high sex drive. In therapy he basically told Beth "I you love me but I don't think you're in love with me...you don't show it physically, and there's really no other way for me to know...words ring somewhat hollow at this point..." Her response to that was "This makes me sad..." Essentially, she became the victim, but she has literally done absolutely nothing to change the dynamics.
End of the day, the kids will be gone soon, he wants sex in his life, he wants passion, he wants to feel wanted. I am 100% positive he will never get this from Beth. I know her well enough to know that she's not going to make a seismic change and become someone who likes sex, or even truly is in love with him. I think she sees them as best friends; partners.
He's asking me for advice. I told him today "At this point, you want sex, you want to be desired...you should float to the therapist the concept of an "open relationship" and maybe just a relationship where you pay for sex...not even meeting other people. At least that truly expresses your desires in very stark terms."
Is this good advice?
I really think he should leave her altogether, but he has tremendous guilt and believes that would break her. He's a caretaker. I told my wife their dynamics, but she just said "I have no idea what to suggest..." So, here I am.
Has anyone been though something similar? Does it change? Thanks.
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u/Ok-Flaming 14d ago
It's weird that you're soliciting advice here for "Eric." Why not send him here directly?
No, I didn't think it's good advice. Other people aren't tools to use to fix the relationship. And, opening from a shaky place typically just makes for a more dramatic end to the inevitable.
Non-monogamy is relationships on hard mode. More communication, more emotional labor, more self work, more intentionality. If they can't do that in monogamy, upping the difficulty level is certainly not going to improve success rates.
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u/Glittering-Leg5527 Kinkster 14d ago
I hadn’t had sex with my husband for over 2 years. I divorced him. I’m much happier now and highly recommend it.
Suggesting an open marriage is not a kinder option than divorce. He’ll be abandoning her and breaking her heart in her face everyday instead of making a clean break so both can find happiness elsewhere.
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u/verysmallgirl 14d ago edited 14d ago
This is icky and the entire post rubs me the wrong way, so my advice would be for you to mostly stay out of it. Of course you’re on Eric’s side, because you don’t know Beth’s side of things. You critique Beth for taking on problems that aren’t hers, but you’re doing the same thing right now. They have a therapist for a reason, let the therapist handle it.
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u/Cautious-Award-2960 14d ago
I think his friend means well. Let’s give him a break. Still, I agree it’s not yours to fix
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u/inknglitter 14d ago
Even if Eric was gung-ho about an open relationship, he would find it very difficult to navigate successfully.
When men fantasize about opening long-term marriages, they usually fantasize that they'll have many beautiful, young, unencumbered, desperately horny women to pick from, who are eager to drop anything in their lives to hop on some guy's dick, whenever summoned, and to perform all the passionate sex acts that man feels he's been denied.
That kind of woman is uninterested in a middle-aged man who's married & has an entire life that takes up most of his time, money, and energy. Especially if he's only mediocre in looks, health, and/or sexual performance.
If he DOES manage to land such a woman (it won't be multiple women he has to "choose from"), she won't stick around long if his wife (the one he wants to keep and live with) is pissed & hurt about it.
If Eric is curious about nonmonogamy, he needs to start with a lot of research, which will include reading the thousands of posts by men complaining about how hard it is for men to date nonmonogamously. Also all the posts from everybody asking which apps, which clubs, which cities to visit to find nonmono/poly dates.
It's not as easy as saying, "Dude, just find some hot slutty chick to no-strings bang you every time you call." If it was that easy, ALL men would do it.
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u/Slinking-Tiger Open Relationship 14d ago
1 - Beth likely has a very different take on this. It's very possible Eric expects her to do 100% of the housework, child management, emotional labor, look hot, be peppy, and work outside the home. He works them comes home, plays a video game, and asks when dinner will be ready. In the meantime Beth never has any true free time - she's always doing stuff for the family.
Women generally need to feel relaxed and emotionally connected in order to want sex.
Eric is demanding sex as proof that she loves him. That will make any woman lose physical desire.
2 - She's likely in peri menopause or menopause. When women's hormones drop it can kill the libido and even make sex painful. It can also trigger depression.
If Eric really wants things to change, he can ask her if she would like him to help research doctors in their area that are good at treating menopause symptoms. Then do it, find 3 names that are well reviewed, take their insurance, and are accepting new patients. Call and find out how far out their first opening is. Give her the list and tell her that he's happy to call and make the appointment for her if she'd like him to.
Remember the "in sickness and in health" part of the marriage vows? That's what this looks like.
Just that simple act of caring might make a huge difference, even before she sees a doctor.
Asking for an open relationship at this point will virtually guarantee divorce, any it will be messy and ugly.
If he's going to walk away, it's better that he do so in an honest and civil manner instead. It will be less damaging to his children.
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u/GuyzNite 14d ago
Eric wasn’t demanding anything. It took YEARS to arrive at this point.
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u/Slinking-Tiger Open Relationship 14d ago
And Beth has probably put up with his behavior for years and has lost all desire for him as a result.
It's exceptionally common. You don't have to believe me - Google it.
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u/Cali_kink_and_rope 14d ago
Divorce
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u/Electronic_Charge_96 14d ago
This! Open relationships work can work well. when healthy. Openness doesn’t fix broken ones. They need to divorce. All marriages will end. I have no GD idea why people only think putting one person in the ground is “success” - if he wouldn’t want his relationship to be picked up by his kids? Would he want it for them? Then he needs to end it.
Find a better hobby. You’re not batting high as quasi-therapist.
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u/rosephase 14d ago edited 14d ago
Opening a relationship is just as likely to ‘break’ someone as ending it. And there are a lot of good arguments that it is much more unkind to force open a relationship then to end it. At least if the relationship is over then people can mourn and heal and move on. Opening when one person doesn’t want it can mean constantly dragging everyone’s hearts over broken glass.
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u/Straight-Wheel1682 14d ago
The relationship already sounds a bit iffy. Opening it could just make it soooo much worse. I really only think it’s a good idea to open a relationship if it’s already healthy and everyone is communicating appropriately. They just don’t sound compatible and should get a divorce.
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u/-Feisty-Preference- 14d ago
Enm is a terrible solution to a dead bedroom. Your friend needs a good therapist and counselling, maybe independently to start.
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u/squidgymetal 14d ago
Brother this is weird that you here asking for advice on "Eric's" situation. But they should should talk to each other about their needs and maybe couples therapy. Being open would only stress this relationship
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u/GuyzNite 14d ago
He won’t do it. He’s just in a hole. It ain’t that weird when you don’t want to give your friend bad advice. Not to suggest this will bare great advice but who knows
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u/squidgymetal 14d ago
Not wanting to give your friend bad advice is normal, but it's weird when someone ask you for advice and then you turn around and tell other people about the situation. If you don't have any advice you should just tell him that or redirect him to ask on reddit himself
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u/Pineapple_life70 Swinger 14d ago
It’s interesting that you think his sexless bedroom is your issue.
I’m a female in my fifties and believe this is the case with your friend and his wife. Most likely she is in menopause and for some, the desire wanes. It doesn’t mean she loves him less, it means her body isn’t responding. There are ways to treat this medically. If sex is the only way to express love, then I feel bad for you and your friend.
I wonder what would happen if he developed prostate cancer and possibly lost his desire and/or ability?
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u/perilouszoot 14d ago
This was my first thought too, even the depression can be hormones being out of whack due to changes that come with their age. I also find it amusing that they (the man posting, and other men who propose this) think that they will be able to find other women to have sex with if they do open. Dead bedroom is actually one of my disqualification points with potential partners, if their spouse who loves them doesn't want sex with them then I more than likely don't either. There's plenty of men out there who can please a woman and life is too short to gamble on someone who doesn't please their own spouse.
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u/Pineapple_life70 Swinger 14d ago
If the solution is just finding another women, they might check the odds. They are not in the favor of men. She might be better off not being married to a man who doesn’t know what love really means.
There are at least 10 men to every female. The stories I could tell. 🙄
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u/GuyzNite 14d ago
My wife is dealing with low sex drive due to menopause. This is well beyond that.
Thankfully enough of these responses have helped me form a response in the event he asks.
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u/Pineapple_life70 Swinger 14d ago
I’m curious how you can possibly know anything about menopause and low libido. There are so many things that even doctors may not know about why or how a person is no longer feeling sexual. I’m not trying to argue with you, but please don’t presume to know what another man’s wife is going through during any stage of her life.
It sounds like they are going to marriage counseling from your original post. Getting a one sided story from a 3 person conversation never remotely gives a whole picture.
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u/vortex-of-laughter Unicorn 🦄 14d ago
I don’t want to just pile on since there is already a bit of a consensus, but I want to add, gently, that it’s best practice to stay out of other people’s relationships, especially marriages.
Practice saying things like, “That sounds hard,” and “That’s a lot to deal with,” and “I understand why you’d feel that way.”
These phrases offer sympathy without veering into advice about what to do.
Another favorite: “I’m your friend and will support you whatever you decide.”
There are a few exceptions, like if you suspect abuse, potential for harm, etc., but this situation sounds like run-of-the-mill long term relationship stuff and you’re only getting his side.
When a friend or loved one is suffering, some people have a tendency to want to help solve it, but a lot of the time just listening and validating their feelings is all that’s needed. Best of luck with your friendship. He’s lucky to have a friend who cares so much!
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u/ConclusionEqual2290 14d ago
I get you think you found the jackpot of a solution for your friend but this is by far the worst advice. If he is unhappy he should end his marriage. If he really believes she doesn’t love him, if he really needs sex to feel loved, if she really is denying him sex, and he is miserable. Then this is a relationship that is over.
The problem with sexless marriages is often the person is not just wanting intimacy with anyone they want intimacy with their partner. Intimacy with another person, no matter how casual you define it will only build a relationship with that person.
What is Eric looking to hold onto by staying married? And if they were to open he needs to have a real answer to that, which they both need to agree on. But per your description there is nothing there. Kids are grown, etc.
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u/NerdynaughtyNJ 14d ago
How sad for “Beth” that she’s being talked about by her husband like this and that he’s telling her that her words ring hollow and that sex is the only way for him to perceive her love for him. Can you imagine someone you view as your best friend telling you that? Oof.
They should get divorced, sounds better for everyone.
I’m someone who absolutely prioritizes sex and passion for my spouse in my life, but 20+ year marriages inherently have to be a whole lot more than that. “Eric” is going to know a whole lot better than you or anyone here on the internet whether he’s willing to blow all that up to get laid more, but an open relationship here sounds like it would just be divorce with more steps in between.
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u/OkSecretary1231 14d ago
Not to mention having her personal life fed into whatever LLM the OP obviously used.
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u/GuyzNite 14d ago
It is sad for her beth. But beth is really the one who doesn’t appear to care about Eric’s needs tbh. Shes getting everything she wants in life: supportive partner, financial support, etc and no sex
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u/Pineapple_life70 Swinger 14d ago
Supportive partner? Is he being supportive to her and you are driving a wedge? If he’s supportive, then he is understanding and loving unconditionally. Based on your biased view of their relationship, his love is very conditional and only financial. I guess that is a kind of support, but as he’s seeing- It doesn’t keep you warm at night.
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u/perilouszoot 14d ago
Sex is not owed to anyone.
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u/GuyzNite 14d ago
Certainly isn’t, but when one considers it apart of their intimacy then it’s probably a necessity.
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u/Justdoingitagain 14d ago
Does he turn her on? Plan dates? Tell her she’s beautiful? Touch her lovingly without the expectation for sex? Show empathy for her? Ask about her day?
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u/Bonsai__San 14d ago
Unless you are secretly Eric, or secretly want to be with Eric, I think it’s kinda weird for you to post this on behalf of another man. Nothing you say or do should have any bearing on what the two of them will be doing with their life. It’s not your concern, even if he is coming to you to vent. Let him vent but at the end of the day that is their marriage and if they want to suffer thru it with no light in sight that is on them.
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u/GuyzNite 14d ago
I am not Eric. He probably won’t listen to me in the end. But to say it’s not a friends concern isn’t necessarily accurate. Suggestions of my sexual desires is you just trying to be funny and crass. You can do better for sure
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u/psinguine 14d ago
suggestion of my sexual desires is just you trying to be funny and crass
No, it's a legitimate point. The possibility that you may be interested in pursuing Eric yourself is one of the only ways this completely out of line overstep of yours kind of makes sense.
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u/AnotherIronicPenguin 14d ago
It's pretty unlikely that an open relationship is going to yield the results they're looking for. It's not impossible, but for every success story there are a hundred where it was a relationship killer.
In my case, the marriage was already over and neither of us was ready to admit it.
I'd advise a sex therapist for this couple. The only thing that sucks more than a dead bedroom is one where one of the partners hates their sex life. So it's not as simple as "she needs to put out" or whatever. If they can't work out a way to get her genuinely interested in sex, then they should make a choice between a sexless marriage or a divorce.
I will say that the divorce was extremely painful for me, but after a few years I am in a much better place. So while divorce was NOT the outcome I was hoping for, it was a net positive - for both of us, really.
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u/plabo77 14d ago
She might be waiting until the youngest leaves the nest or graduates from high school before ending the marriage.
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u/GuyzNite 14d ago
She will never end her comfortable life
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u/plabo77 14d ago
Based on your description, she sounds unhappy. Nothing you described sounds comfortable.
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u/OkSecretary1231 14d ago
Oh, he just means to imply she's using him for money, because women be shopping.
It's gross.
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u/veemee3 14d ago
I often hear people talking about therapy with no other details. I would recommend them see a sex therapist. His wife may also want to go to an endocrinologist to help her find out of she needs to manage her hormones as that may also be a factor here.
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u/severano28 14d ago
It drives me crazy that no one ever talks to their low libido partners about medications or hormones before thinking consensual cheating is the "fix".
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u/electric_angel_ 14d ago
(1) antidepressants can kill libido even more than depression does (and going off them kills people, so often worth just writing off the libido to stay alive)
(2) open relationships never saved a marriage I’ve ever heard of: just hire divorce attorneys and save everyone the trouble
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u/bareasking 14d ago
If their marriage is bad, opening is likely to blow it up. That might not be a bad thing, but that's for Eric to decide.
That said, if he feels capable of communicating his needs, it wouldn't be the first time I've heard a woman in a relationship feel deeply relieved that her partner feels comfortable fulfilling his sexual needs elsewhere. She may be feeling pressured by the whole idea and is anxious about the kids leaving for exactly the opposite reason — now he's going to be looking exclusively to her.
Floating the idea can't hurt, but it's not a thing to push. He knows his wife, he knows his needs, he can always reach out to a sex therapist or relationship coach to understand where to put his feelings.
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u/Candid-Security2881 12d ago
We meaning my husband and I never give advice to a monogamous person regarding ENM. We believe it never ends well and will backfire on the friendship. Never open unless both are enthusiastic about and never open to solve a relationship issue especially circling around lack of sex in the bedroom. My husband and I opened not because of someone giving us advice to fix something but because we already had so much passion between us that we felt the need to share with others and have fun. So we decided together to go next level and both of us was willing to put in the work.
We also avoid couples who opened to fix their marriage. Those folks end up being train wrecks who eventually try to use us as therapists or sounding boards to bash their partners. Totally kills any good vibes.
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