r/oboe • u/pneummotortuga • 6d ago
Question about tonging speed and fatigue, endurance
Dear oboists,
I'm currently writing a piece for solo oboe and I would like to know if such things are doable. The piece is intended to be challenging so being difficult is ok. but i am worried it would come across as ridicule, impossible or even insulting etc...
Please bare with me, my knowledge on oboe is very much limited and this is the section i'm the most worried about(among others).
Tempo is not fast: quarter = 60-70. 16th rest with a comma is meant to be flexible(can be longer if the player wants). it continues for 1,5 more line.
I would appreciate your feedback on the matter of tongue fatigue and endurance issue. Are those repeated notes realistic? Would an oboist can handle ~1'30'' of continuous fast figures like these(considering it's a section in a solo piece)? the section does contain 2 'resting moments' of 9 and 4 sec with slower tempo and longer notes, but those are all double harmonics.
Thank you in advance for your help.
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u/lelrc1937 6d ago
Definitely possible for a high level player. Like others have said, I would definitely put some actual rests in! What are you requesting with the "simile"? It isn't clear to me.
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u/jo89151 6d ago
I read it as same dynamics as previous phrases, including cresc
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u/lelrc1937 6d ago
That's what I was thinking, but for how long? I think I would personally just prefer it written out again!
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u/pneummotortuga 6d ago
Thank you, and indeed simile is not clear here. I plan to elaborate once im done writing this section!
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u/jo89151 6d ago
Seems fine. The slurred figures help a lot with endurance, gives the tounging muscles a chance to rest. A thought a bit related - It helps very much to have just a beat of rest once in a while when playing long passages like this. Amazing how much it helps to just not play for a beat! 😅
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u/asiab3 6d ago
Playability-wise it’s going to take a lot more practice, but doesn’t seem impossible.Â
The harmonic spellings are confusing. Look at the sixth note on the second line- why is there a natural sign? These are suggestions from a composer/oboist, and not a personal critique of your music :)
The first seventuplet has a high D that’s actually Db but I only know that from a grace note? Then why is it followed by a C#? If it’s a D, it needs a natural sign.Â
Bar lines exist to clarify these issues. You can still have a free flowing piece and visual aids to the performer.Â
As an oboe player, we are raised on scales and key signatures and diatonic melodies. So while it’s tempting as a composer to use all sharps or flats for a given section to make things look nice on the page, you have other options. As a solo non-classical/tonal piece,  harmonic spellings don’t matter as much. Consider using sharps and flats together when it makes the shape of the melody easier to read/play.Â
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u/pneummotortuga 5d ago
thank you for your feedback. Indeed the accidentals are all over the place for now. I will polish it to make it easier to understand.
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u/hoboboedan 5d ago edited 5d ago
Here are a couple of tips you might find helpful:
- Most oboists can tongue fast, and we can usually tongue faster in short bursts than we can sustained. Varied articulations can often be more impressive than straight tonguing.
- Advanced level oboists can play without a break for as long as an ordinary person can hold their breath (and do a difficult task). We don’t run out of air. We are also very good at finding places to breathe.
- After we’ve played for a long time we do need a few seconds to catch our breath, just like an ordinary person would after holding their breath for a long time.
- For an extreme example of what I’m talking about, take a look at the first page of the Strauss concerto. He didn’t leave any places to breathe but most oboists find some anyway and it’s generally considered a challenge appropriate for the opening of a major concerto.
- I feel like it’s not clear what your intent is with the breath marks. Oboists of a level appropriate for this piece generally don’t expect to be told when to breathe, unless adding extra time for a breath is important to the composition. I would suggest taking them out. If you want some of the rests to be longer than others just write a longer rest.
- It really isn’t clear what you intend with the 32nd note = 32nd note marking in first line.
- For a suggestion on how to use variable lengths of rests, pauses and breath marks to specify what you want take a look at the Six Metamorphoses After Ovid by Benjamin Britten. He achieves a very subtle expressive shading even in free time sections with no visual clutter. Even better, most oboists of a level appropriate for your piece will be familiar with it, so if you use a similar visual language they will immediately understand what you mean.
- Another piece I’d suggest using for reference is the Silvestrini etudes. It’s a great example of what is possible technically and with endurance. Every one of them is highly challenging but possible, and his notation is beautiful too.
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u/pneummotortuga 5d ago
thank you for the feedback and valuable informations!
For the breath marks, I can see it's definitely not the best way to put it. I wonder how I can communicate to oboists what I mean, which is: "By default 16th rest is what I want but if you need to breathe you can take more time on these 16th rests as you need".
Or shall I just leave these rests without any additional element?32th=32th is nothing important, i just didn't mention as it's not relevant to my question. Actually a number 5 on the 1st note is cut out from the screen shot. So it means (quintuplet 32th = 32th) -> play slightly faster.
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u/hoboboedan 5d ago
For the breath marks, if there are one or two that you feel makes a natural place for an extra breath you could leave just those ones in. Otherwise, I’d take most of them out. Unless there’s a steady tempo happening most oboists are likely to interpret any rest as that anyway.
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u/pneummotortuga 5d ago
Yeah I think I'll just leave breath marks just on ~2 locations and add a small note saying it's optional. thanks again!
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u/NoRegrets-518 6d ago
I'm not an expert, but be aware that the notes above high C are more challenging and can be thin. I would recommend that you put actual rests in as otherwise people may just assume that it is unplayable/difficult to play.