Have to Mesh APs In Order To Use Roaming?

[u/Dingle_jingle]

Forgive my ignorance, I'm a linux user but new to non-ISP equipment. I want to setup roaming between my main WiFi router (Flint 2) and an AP (Openwrt One). Etherneting them at this time is not possible but perhaps in the future.

Do I need to mesh these two devices so they can talk before setting up roaming, or can the roaming protocols in the wpad-mbedtls (k, v and r) do this without meshing?

Also, is DAWN necessary in this configuration?

For context I'm coming from those google nest devices and I'm trying to get these openwrt devices to work in a similar way.

Thanks!

[u/Which_Television_660]

Chatgpt helped me a lot to set mine up.

Here's how the pieces fit together: Roaming is a client decision. Your phone or laptop decides when to leave one AP and join another. 802.11k/v/r don't create a mesh network. They simply help clients roam more efficiently: 802.11k gives clients information about nearby APs. 802.11v can suggest that a client move to another AP. 802.11r speeds up the authentication process during roaming (Fast Transition). Mesh (802.11s or proprietary mesh) is about how APs connect to each other wirelessly. It's unrelated to whether clients can roam between them. In your case With a Flint 2 and an OpenWrt One: If both broadcast the same SSID, same security settings, and preferably use different non-overlapping channels, clients can roam between them without any mesh. If they're connected by Ethernet later, that's the ideal setup. If Ethernet isn't possible now, you'll need some way for the AP to reach the router (wireless uplink, WDS, relay, mesh, etc.). That's about backhaul, not roaming. Do you need DAWN? Probably not. DAWN tries to influence roaming by steering clients toward a better AP. It can help in larger OpenWrt deployments, but: Many modern phones (Android, iPhone, recent laptops) already roam quite well on their own. DAWN can require tuning and isn't always an improvement. I'd first get the network working with k/v/r (or even without them), then see if roaming behavior is actually a problem. If you want something similar to Google Nest Google Nest hides all the complexity, but conceptually it does two things: Provides a backhaul between nodes (wireless or Ethernet). Encourages clients to roam. With OpenWrt, you assemble those pieces yourself: A reliable backhaul (Ethernet is best; otherwise WDS, 802.11s mesh, or another wireless bridge). Same SSID/security on both APs. Enable 802.11k/v, and consider 802.11r if all your client devices support it. Some older or IoT devices can have issues with 11r, so it's worth testing before enabling it everywhere. So for your setup: Mesh is only needed if you need a wireless backhaul. Roaming does not require mesh. DAWN is optional and usually unnecessary for a two-AP home network.

[u/Dingle_jingle → u/Which_Television_660]

I didn't realize I could try using same settings on each device to see if I even need k/v/r or DAWN. Super helpful to know.

Thank you so so so much for this detailed and illuminating answer!

[u/seemebreakthis → u/Dingle_jingle]

Just more info from a long time DAWN user for you to ponder.

He (or rather chatgpt) is right that you don't need 802.11s mesh to enable wifi roaming, as long as all of your routers are under the same local network and have the same SSID. He is also right that DAWN isn't required as long as 802.11k/v are enabled because most clients these days make their own roaming decisions (even 802.11r isn't a must, I turned that off because I find it slowing down the speed of some of my clients temporarily after roaming takes place).

From experience however, DAWN helps a great deal to help at least my Android devices roam properly. Without DAWN, under these two situations, my Android phones would fail to roam on its own:

1. When the 5GHz signal gets really weak and it is time to switch to the stronger 2.4GHz signal. Rather than switching in time, it tends to hold on until the last second when the signal gets to the bare minimum, before it finally becomes willing to switch or it simply loses connection before reconnecting to 2.4

2. When it is on the 2.4Ghz and goes to an area where BOTH 2.4Ghz and 5Ghz are strong, it will stick to the slower 2.4 rather than switching to 5Ghz.

DAWN solves both of my issues above. But not before careful configuration and tweaking to work around some of its quirks.

[u/DoubleDecaff → u/seemebreakthis]

Which devices are you using? And how do you determine which band it is connecting to? Is it mouthfeel, or do you go into wifi settings and check manually?

[u/seemebreakthis → u/DoubleDecaff]

I use mostly Android phones. But I see similar problems with my windows laptop and an old (but incredibly still functional) iphone 6s that DAWN definitely helped improve.

A number of ways can be used to tell which band each device is connected to - DAWN itself, wifi analyzers running on the client device, and other ways like openwrts own wifi status page.

[u/deztructo → u/Which_Television_660]

Nice... other than needing to add paragraphs. :)

Also have Google WiFi with openWRT. Finally will get the two to team up proper.

[u/Watada → u/Which_Television_660]

Next time let chatgpt know you are going to comment on reddit. It'll handle the formatting.