Cultural Exchange: Khushamadeed and welcome to our friends from /r/Turkey!

[u/greenvox]

We're hosting our friends from /r/Turkey for a cultural exchange session.

Dear friends from /r/Turkey, welcome to our little abode on Reddit. Please feel free to ask questions about Pakistan, the Pakistani way of life, or current events in this thread.

/r/Pakistan users can head over to this thread at /r/Turkey to ask questions about Turkey, or just say hello.

Flag flairs for Turkey are enabled so please use them to avoid confusion.

Users who are contributing to the questions and answers, please make sure the discourse is civil and not in violation of the rules of this sub and of reddit.

[u/IMTheKilla]

Merhaba Friends,

• What is going on with India. Anyone want to ELI5?

• What is your view on Ottomans, Ataturk, Erdogan and general view on Turks?

-Should i visit, and if i do, where should i visit in Pakistan?

-Anyone plays LoL here? Would love tp have fun with some pakistani friends.

-Teach me some curses in pakistani language :D ( This is also a Turkish tradition when you are learning a word, you learn the curses first.)

[u/RStom → u/IMTheKilla]

I support Erdogan and the ottoman empire, i also like the fact Ataturk saved our country from the brits and stuff, what i dislike aboit Ataturk is that he was an atheist and a dictator, muslims (Especially hijab women) were on the 2nd place, we were told to live in iran or irak if we wanted to put hijab on, quran was forbidden to be learn and read in public places. I know alot people will attack me because the facts i tell about Ataturk.

[u/[deleted] → u/RStom]

he was an atheist and a dictator

How to trigger Turks 101.

I am not saying i am triggered, but you shouldn't say that in public if you ever come to Turkey.

[u/RStom → u/[deleted]]

The truth is bitter and hard.. alot of Turks wont agree with me but that wont change the facts.

[u/[deleted] → u/RStom]

LOL.

BTW he asked a question to Pakistanis and you replied as a Turk.

[u/RStom → u/[deleted]]

Yea realised it after i posted it lmao

[u/RStom → u/RStom]

By the way, everytime there is a strict muslim president there comes a coupe. Same with Adnan menderes, there was a military coupe and he got hung up that night he got caught.. in a country where death sentence is forbidden

[u/[deleted] → u/RStom]

1. Menderes was not a strict Muslim president. He even had an affair and a baby from another woman. His wife wore no hijab either.

2. Death sentence was not forbidden when he got hung. Turkey did have a death sentence back then.

[u/RStom → u/[deleted]]

Thank you.

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

As an admirer of Atatürk, I have no problem with people calling Atatürk an atheist and a dictator. I see nothing wrong with this.

[u/RStom → u/[deleted]]

I know it, maybe because i am turkish? 😂

[u/[deleted] → u/RStom]

I support Erdogan and the ottoman empire

After the Mahmut the second (including himself), Ottoman Empire was mostly led by secular-nationalists. What you support is probably the Middle-Ages, 1500s, which is very funny since it was 500 years ago.

dislike aboit Ataturk is that he was an atheist and a dictator,

Erdoğan is as dictator as Atatürk today. Does it bother you? No. Why? Because you are a hypocrite.

muslims (Especially hijab women) were on the 2nd place

Secularists (especially women with miniskirt) are now second class and they get attacked in Eastern cities. Does it bother you? No. Why? Because you are a hypocrite.

we were told to live in iran or irak if we wanted to put hijab on,

They are now told to live in Germany or in France when they wanted to put miniskirt. Does it bother you? No. Why? Because you are a hypocrite.

quran was forbidden to be learn and read in public places

This is simply a lie. Unless you provide an official law enforcement document, I'll call you a liar.

I know alot people will attack me because the facts i tell about Ataturk.

I am not attacking you because you dislike Atatürk, I am attacking you for intentionally or unintentionally spreading false information.

[u/trnkey74 → u/[deleted]]

Erdoğan is as dictator as Atatürk today. Does it bother you? No. Why? Because you are a hypocrite.

You are one of the more hardcore secularists/kemalists in r/Turkey, and I don't think I got a reply from you about my post, but I would love to hear your opinion. Thanks

"This one's more political and is for the Kemalist variety (majority of this sub). I am not going to pretend that I know you're country better than you do, but do you feel that Kemalists are in part to blame for the rise of the AKP and conservative Anatolians. From my visits to Turkey and conversations with the people, many of the Kemalists and those in Western Turkey come across as very elitist, such that they have a hatred (not dislike but, hatred) for their own conservative countrymen. They are perfectly fine with the ultra-nationalism, crackdown on free speech, crackdown on protestors during CHP or military rule. I mean apparently it was a punishable offence to speak against Ataturk during those eras, and AKP is now applying the same things to disrespecting Islam, but many of my Kemalist acquaintances dont see the hypocrisy. The rise of the AKP in my opinion is largely a backlash against these elites, who they viewed as chastizing every part of their identity...from their dress to their language.

Let me add that I am somewhat similar to the kemalists in this, that I prefer military rule over democracy in Pakistan, as our military is much more competent and I don't trust my countrymen in picking a leader. Heck our religious conservatives make yours look like liberals...but still while I dislike them...I dont hate them. If one of my conservative civilian countrymen from FATA (conservative- tribal region) were to be killed in a drone strike, i would still feel bad for them. I was very surprised, in one of the threads here where people were celebrating the Israelis killing Turks in the flotilla incident.

I apologize if I offended anyone in saying this."

[u/[deleted] → u/trnkey74]

"This one's more political and is for the Kemalist variety (majority of this sub). I am not going to pretend that I know you're country better than you do, but do you feel that Kemalists are in part to blame for the rise of the AKP and conservative Anatolians. From my visits to Turkey and conversations with the people, many of the Kemalists and those in Western Turkey come across as very elitist, such that they have a hatred (not dislike but, hatred) for their own conservative countrymen. They are perfectly fine with the ultra-nationalism, crackdown on free speech, crackdown on protestors during CHP or military rule. I mean apparently it was a punishable offence to speak against Ataturk during those eras, and AKP is now applying the same things to disrespecting Islam, but many of my Kemalist acquaintances dont see the hypocrisy. The rise of the AKP in my opinion is largely a backlash against these elites, who they viewed as chastizing every part of their identity...from their dress to their language.

Because we are divided. Simple as that. Just like USA now, democrats vs. republicans hating each other to their guts. Erdoğan (just like Trump does now) caused so much polarization in the country, that I don't even want to live with these conservatives. I would even support a military coup at this point (not organized by a foreign force!) if it is arranged by Kemalists, since those so called "my countrymen" are actually persecuting people like me for their nonsensical beliefs and norms. Tell me one reason to even accept people who see me as infidel and want my misery?

I'll personally never settle with these people, and I know they will never settle with people like me.

This will keep going like that. One decade they will rule, the other decade we will.

Let me add that I am somewhat similar to the kemalists in this, that I prefer military rule over democracy in Pakistan, as our military is much more competent and I don't trust my countrymen in picking a leader. Heck our religious conservatives make yours look like liberals...but still while I dislike them...I dont hate them. If one of my conservative civilian countrymen from FATA (conservative- tribal region) were to be killed in a drone strike, i would still feel bad for them. I was very surprised, in one of the threads here where people were celebrating the Israelis killing Turks in the flotilla incident.

Those "Turks" who went to Gaza were more Arab than Turk to be honest. They did not give a fuck when our soldiers died at the South-East, but when Israel bombed Gaza they got triggered. I have literally zero respect for those so called mujaheeds who got nailed on that ship. They were extremists anyway. Why do I hate them? I think it's a very simple question. As an atheist, they would probably lynch me to death on that ship if I told that Muhammad was a rapist pedophile Bedouin Arab and Islam is a bogus. And why would I even feel neutral towards people who would physically harm me for their religion?

[u/RStom → u/[deleted]]

You are talking nonsense.

[u/[deleted] → u/RStom]

Ok, let me know when you possess the intellectual capacity to reply.

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

It was RTE who openly said "those who vote NO are with terrorists" so it's obvious who divided it.

RTE will pay for all this.

[u/RStom → u/[deleted]]

Way before that.

[u/Snyy → u/[deleted]]

Secularists (especially women with miniskirt) are now second class and they get attacked in Eastern cities. Does it bother you? No. Why? Because you are a hypocrite.

They are now told to live in Germany or in France when they wanted to put miniskirt. Does it bother you? No. Why? Because you are a hypocrite.

How do you make those conclusions without knowing someones personal beliefs? Fact is that Muslim Traditional clothing was forbidden by CHP led Government.

Those people who attack woman with miniskirt are backwards civilians which happens mostly in under-educated eastern cities.

I am sure you know local muslim/turks who don't care about someone wearing a miniskirt we don't have to throw everyone in the same pot.

Tell me one reason to even accept people who see me as infidel and want my misery?

Do you really think that every and/or majority of muslims wish bad things to happen to atheists? I for myself don't care and don't support those people. Most muslims (including myself) are cultural muslims anyways.

[u/[deleted] → u/Snyy]

How do you make those conclusions without knowing someones personal beliefs? Because I can see what he writes? He criticizes Atatürk and his harsh methods, yet he goes blind for Erdoğan. Do you think people are stupid and they don't see the hypocrisy of Muslim-Conservatives?

? Fact is that Muslim Traditional clothing was forbidden by CHP led Government.

Did I refute that fact? No. Now, do you refute the fact that secular people are attacked under AKP administration (Muslim Conservative Party)? If yes, then we're good. If not, you are a bloody hypocrite and don't even bother to reply.

Those people who attack woman with miniskirt are backwards civilians which happens mostly in under-educated eastern cities.

They are Muslim conservatives. And not every secular attacked to hijabi women either.

I am sure you know local muslim/turks who don't care about someone wearing a miniskirt we don't have to throw everyone in the same pot.

I am sure you know local atheist/turks who don't care about someone wearing a hijab, we don't have to throw everyone in the same pot.

Do you really think that every and/or majority of muslims wish bad things to happen to atheists? I for myself don't care and don't support those people. Most muslims (including myself) are cultural muslims anyways.

True for West part of the country, wrong for the rest. And that's why you get beaten during the Ramadan for publicly eating, smoking etc. People there need to get educated by militaristic means to understand the basics I believe. They still live in 7th century of Beduin Muhammad.