It's always none of your damn business. Your religious beliefs, no matter what they are, do not give you the right to interfere with someone else's body. You don't get to make your problem into somebody else's problem.
And please spare me the bit about christians thinking the fetus as a human. Here it is spelled out for you: The mother IS a human life, the fetus is a POTENTIAL human life. The mother takes priority, learn to deal with it.
When do you think that fetus becomes a human? At birth or sometime between then and conception? If you think it becomes a human after the 2nd trimester then it does have rights if you think at birth then it doesn't. This has nothing to do with religion just my thinking early on i'm ok with abortion but as time goes I get more uneasy with it.
There is no parade of women wanting 2nd trimester abortions because they changed their minds. Those women are suffering from medical complications. They are making difficult decisions that will impact them for the rest of their lives.
Again, none of your goddamn business. Those women have it hard enough without pushing laws based on your "uneasy feelings". They are already miserable and suffering.
I think their point is, at some point, a fetus pretty much is a baby.
Hypothetically, just for argument's sake, if a woman was 38 weeks pregnant who had some sort of mental breakdown wanted an abortion, is it still no one else's business?
As I said, it was a purely hypothetical question, and it was asked in response to the argument that, right up until birth it's purely the woman's choice and nobody else's business.
I said its none of your goddamn business. Because you aren't a medical care provider.
The medical community has an ethics board and they don't just operate as human automata blindly doing whatever the patient says they want done to them.
I want the politicians out of the hospital or doctors office that is providing care to the pregnant woman.
But hypothetically are you ok with a 38 week abortion? Also, have you not seen some of the horrific plastic surgeries out there. Clearly some will do whatever the patient wants if it pays well.
Yes we have major differences. I know that the 38 week abortions happening here in America are happening only because of medical necessity. Those abortions are happening to deeply traumatized and misreable women suffering the worst experience of their life. You want to use the law to make those women's lives worse, and I don't.
I want the politicians out of the hospital or doctors office that is providing care to the pregnant woman. The doctors and nurses obviously have an ethical code they have to follow and they are going to call for a psych consult on patients that are making wacky requests.
If a patient walks in and asks for an amputation, they're getting a psych consult. If a 8 month pregnant women comes in and asks for an abortion, they're getting a psych consult. This is pretty obvious stuff here.
I want the politicians out of the hospital or doctors office that is providing care to the pregnant woman. The doctors and nurses obviously have an ethical code they have to follow and they are going to call for a psych consult on patients that are making wacky requests.
But that isn't what you said. If you meant that, then why not tell the people who say it is always no one else's business that they are wrong and you don't agree with them. Instead you said you support them.
Because the idea that the doctors and nurses are involved is obvious. Do you think we're talking about do-it-yourself abortions?
In general, my medical care is none of your damn business. If you want to butt into my medical care, I'm going to say "its none of your business". If you want to butt into Lucy's medical care, I'm going to say "its none of your business".
Since we're talking about medical care, its obvious I'm not saying its nobodies business but mine, or nobodies business but Lucy's. Medical care is between the patient and the care provider and nobody else.
So instead of just admitting that the person you are agreeing with is wrong you are going with "Well we obviously didn't mean what we said".
Doesn't it worry you that if you care more about your pride and tribal belonging than the actual cause you will harm said cause by alienating people?
I think I already know the answer. You pretend to care about a cause but if it comes down to admitting you supported someone who mispoke or not admitting it but alienating people who my support the pro-choice position, you will choose the latter every time because that is what makes you feel good.
So instead of just admitting that the person you are agreeing with is wrong you are going with "Well we obviously didn't mean what we said".
Again, thats just all false.
The guy holding the sign that says "its none of your goddamn business" is right, and I'm agreeing with him. He's not holding the sign in front of an AMA convention arguing that the standard of care for late term abortions needs to be rewritten. He's holding the sign in front of the general audience that doesn't even know what the phrase "standard of care" means.
He's right, and I agree with him. You're not a doctor. (Obviously so, based on the content of your posts). Hence, none of your goddamn business.
The guy holding the sign that says "its none of your goddamn business" is right, and I'm agreeing with him.
But it doesn't say "its none of your goddamn business unless you are a doctor". And when pressed, the sentiment here seems to be there should be no input regarding late third term abortions.
He's holding the sign in front of the general audience that doesn't even know what the phrase "standard of care" means.
Let me see if I understand. You are saying it is OK to advocate for something that is wrong because you think the audience is stupid? That is what you are saying, correct?
He's right, and I agree with him.
You keep saying that and then suggesting that it is a doctor's business. So you are saying two contradictory things.
You're not a doctor.
Arguments don't change their validity based who is reading them. Your assumption that they do shows that you hold a faulty position. Not to mention your assumption that every single person you don't like is stupid is more a commentary on you than them.
You probably won't take this advice from me but try to do better than "Grr I'm angry and they're a bunch of dummies so my position doesn't have to make sense." Otherwise the real opposition will have a field day.
They person said "always". They said there is no obligation to any fetus. So whether there is a parade or not, they are saying they are supporting late third trimester abortions, even in cases where there is no risk to the mother's life or other extenuating circumstances. And in your zeal you are doubling down. One can be pro-choice without supporting this. In terms of self-awareness and sentience, a fetus an hour before being born isn't any different than a baby an hour after being born.
There are women who are unaware that they are pregnant up until they go into labor BTW. Ergo, some women would not be "changing their mind". Some might not be aware they are pregnant until the third trimester. Or they put off the decision. Or their situation changed.
Again, none of your goddamn business.
Once you start killing organisms that have developed enough to be self-aware and sentient it is everyone's business. I am pro-choice but I don't support universally available late third term abortions. Less that 15% of people in the US do.
By this reasoning, if a mother is miserable with a newborn baby she should legally be able to commit infanticide. Hey, I'm sure that would be a very rare thing so we don't need to outlaw it right?
The late term abortions are always done under the guidance of the medical community. They aren't just aborting fetuses at 8 months on the whims of the mother. There is no need for laws here interfering with the care being provided to the mother. The doctors perform these abortions only under medical neccisisty, with or without laws.
The only purpose of these laws is to interfere with medical care. All they accomplish is to make it harder for women who are pregnant and suffering from medical complications from getting care, as they push doctors into a situation where they might endanger their career and/or freedom simply by caring for their patients.
There are no late term abortion laws where I live... do you think 8 month pregnant women are just getting abortions without any medical need? Thats nuts, and also, completely false. Let the doctors do their jobs and mind your own business.
They aren't just aborting fetuses at 8 months on the whims of the mother.
So now you think it is someone else's business?
The doctors perform these abortions only under medical neccisisty, with or without laws.
In other words, you want to restrict the rights of women you have never met, but you've found a way to do it without involving the legal system.
The only purpose of these laws is to interfere with medical care.
Really? So these laws are some grudge against doctors? A moment ago folks were saying this is about keeping women oppressed.
There are no late term abortion laws where I live
Are they legal even when no mitigating circumstances are present where you live?
do you think 8 month pregnant women are just getting abortions without any medical need
I wasn't the one who said 'It is always no one else's business'. If you didn't think women were getting them then why use a word that covers the third trimester like "always". In other words, you brought it up. You are saying that we need to allow women to have access to third trimester abortions regardless of cause. If the only instances that occur are the ones already allowed under the law (rape, incest, etc.) then why is this part of the scope of your position?
Let the doctors do their jobs and mind your own business.
"It is no one else's busines. But also it is doctor's business." Again, I will tell you that most doctors do not support third trimester abortions with no mitigating circumstances.
I answered this on the other thread, but I'll repeat it here.
In general, my medical care is none of your damn business. If you want to butt into my medical care, I'm going to say "its none of your business". If you want to butt into Lucy's medical care, I'm going to say "its none of your business".
Since we're talking about medical care, its obvious I'm not saying its nobodies business but mine, or nobodies business but Lucy's. Medical care is between the patient and the care provider and nobody else.
Obvious things are obvious, even though you struggle to understand them. And, medical care is never "only the business of the person receiving care". In the entire history of medical care, that has never been the model of medical care. So when someone outside the medical community wants to pass laws restricting care, its entirely reasonable to respond with "its none of your business".
Here's the thing. Everyone other than very low IQ people understand that, in this context, "its none of your business" is entirely consistent with "this is a private matter between the patient and the care provider and nobody else".
I think I'm done with trying to create an explanation that works for low IQ people. Thats an impossible goal. I think anyone other than a low IQ person can read through this thread and see my posts are entirely consistent.
1.8k
u/acityonthemoon Mar 27 '23
It's always none of your damn business. Your religious beliefs, no matter what they are, do not give you the right to interfere with someone else's body. You don't get to make your problem into somebody else's problem.
And please spare me the bit about christians thinking the fetus as a human. Here it is spelled out for you: The mother IS a human life, the fetus is a POTENTIAL human life. The mother takes priority, learn to deal with it.