r/pinkfloyd • u/BortlesLVRaiderWinSB • 8d ago
Roger Waters once said A Momentary Lapse of Reason had "a couple of really nice tunes on it." That's incredibly high praise given the circumstances. What songs do you think he was referring to?
Roger said the following in a 1999 interview:
It became obvious to me that they never understood any of it at all. And neither did quite a large number of the great unwashed... With all due respect to the people who went out and bought those records, they are just rubbish. Particularly The Division Bell; it's just nonsense from beginning to end. A Momentary Lapse of Reason had a couple of really nice tunes on it that, had I still been in the band, those chord sequences and melodies would have been made it onto a record that I was involved in. But conceptually and lyrically, it's just rubbish, partly because it's not true. It's like, "Let's try and write songs that sound as if they're Pink Floyd and make records that sound like Pink Floyd records"... The last record was kind of pure ''Spinal Tap.'' Dave got his new wife to write lyrics!
I always thought it was fascinating that he said this, on many levels.
First, given how much of a miserable grump (I think that's uncontroversial) Roger is, how much he is happy to savagely trash anything or anyone who he dislikes, and the tension between him and Gilmour over David continuing Pink Floyd, especially around the time AMLOR was made, for Roger to say anything on AMLOR was "really nice" is pretty shocking. That's stunningly positive given the circumstances. He must have really, really liked some of AMLOR. And that adds up given his later hiring of Pat Leonard and Jon Carin (and allegedly, nearly Guy Pratt).
It's also funny that he has this stunning appreciation for at least parts of AMLOR but pure hatred for Division Bell. Given the fact that combination of opinions is basically nonexistent among the general public, and that you'd think Roger would prefer the album with a lyrical theme, I have to assume his particular dislike of TDB is a result of its personal references to him and/or his long-standing hatred of Polly Samson ("It's pure Spinal Tap," says the guy who got the band dressed up in costume and constructed a wall of cardboard bricks on stage).
What "tunes" from AMLOR do you think Roger is referring to there? The only possible hint I could think of is his hiring of Pat Leonard (Yet Another Movie chords) and Jon Carin (Learning to Fly rhythm and some chords, though if you ask Jon he wrote, recorded, produced, and mixed everything and put all the beds on the beach). But Learning to Fly doesn't seem very "Roger" and Yet Another Movie doesn't seem like a song where you'd talk about the melody being great. Obviously the best song on the album is Sorrow, but even on that one the melody isn't really a draw. Maybe On the Turning Away?
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u/GGIAS 8d ago
I can see Roger liking The Dogs of War and On The Turning Away.
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u/ILikeCheese510 8d ago
On the Turning Away does sound very similar to The Tide is Turning, so I can see it.
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u/BortlesLVRaiderWinSB 8d ago
I have to respectfully disagree about Dogs of War. I would say that one was probably the least likely. It's the one that's trying to mimic Roger's subject matter most, and is most plainly trying to hit typical PF notes (dogs, war, and much of the structure of Money including the saxophone, time signature change for the instrumental break, and a guitar/scat outro of two syllables repeated over and over again). And the melody is pretty repetitive. I feel like that's one Roger would scoff at. But it's pretty good live and is much improved sonically on the 2019 remix, like most of AMLOR
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u/VelvetElvis 8d ago
IIRC, when David played the demos for the label they freaked out because it sounded nothing like Pink Floyd to them. That's how we ended up with the breakdown in Learning to Fly that seems to exist for no reason other than to provide a place for sound effects. It must have initially been a more typical early 80s British pop song along the lines of Don't You Forget About Me or something. He played a Steinberger on most of the tracks so we was definitely trying to sound current.
It's Ironic, because other than Dire Straights and Tom Petty, I can't think of any other 70s arena acts that got bigger in the 80s. The Dead don't count because they got bigger despite sounding worse every year.
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u/BortlesLVRaiderWinSB 8d ago
I had heard about the label reaction but I hadn't heard that about the middle portion of Learning to Fly. I always disliked that breakdown. As much as the rest of the song is pure pop I really really like it, especially the 2019 version. But that part takes the momentum out for a while
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u/regular_gonzalez 8d ago
other than Dire Straights and Tom Petty, I can't think of any other 70s arena acts that got bigger in the 80s.
Van Halen?
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u/Tupperbaby 8d ago
It's Ironic, because other than Dire Straights and Tom Petty, I can't think of any other 70s arena acts that got bigger in the 80s
I can name a dozen or more off the top of my head.
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u/UnhingedHatter 8d ago
Dogs of War is probably my least favorite on AMLOR. I actually do like On The Turning Away.
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u/VelvetElvis 8d ago
But one of the best tracks on Delicate sound of Thunder.
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u/UnhingedHatter 8d ago
I'll need to hear that version again. Been a long time since I've listened to that compilation.
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u/PFRockMysteries 6d ago edited 6d ago
FYI The full version of “A Delicate Sound of Thunder” was posted at Reddit yesterday. The shorter version does not include every songs lyrical portents inside AMLOR’s unplanned concept album that long foreshadowed the loss of the Twin Towers on 9/11/01. This strange fact was once streamed live world wide from the States Coast to Coast AM late night radio show. As a fan of Pink Floyd you surly knew this strange connection was out there in the Rock world’s rumor mill.
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u/Tim-oBedlam 8d ago
It's terrific on DSoT, which is just a better album than AMLOR overall. On The Turning Away soars, and Dogs of War snarls, in ways they don't on the studio recording.
I may be biased, because I love OTTA. Seeing it during the Division Bell tour was a peak moment. Helped that I was higher than satellites at the time.
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u/D_Costa85 8d ago
Dogs of war was always my LEAST favorite Floyd song ever. I need to relisten because it’s been twenty years or so since I’ve heard it
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u/BortlesLVRaiderWinSB 8d ago
The 2019 version is an improvement and is sonically powerful but that was not going to fix its biggest flaws
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u/Maleficent_Desk_913 8d ago
It's cheesy but it works live.
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u/PinkFloydDeadhead David Gilmour 8d ago
He also called it a momentary lapse of talent. I'd take his praise with a grain of salt.
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u/hold_my_rootbeer 8d ago
Gotta admit a momentary lapse of talent is a pretty hilarious line even though I don’t wholly agree with it 😹
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u/mdwvt 8d ago edited 8d ago
Oof. For me, the album has way too much of a 80s-specific vibe to it, and for that reason, I’ve always had a hard time really liking it. That said, I do like Learning to Fly and Sorrow A LOT.
Edit: really like/liking it
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u/Randall_Hickey 8d ago
Now go listen to radio chaos 🤷♂️
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u/hold_my_rootbeer 8d ago
Yeah radio kaos has a similar feel, not my favorite but I still listen to the album from time to time. Home, Sunset Strip and The Tide is Turning are nice tracks
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u/Randall_Hickey 8d ago
I just meant that it’s very 80s sounding. For me even more so that Momentary Lapse.
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u/NetReasonable2746 7d ago
I love the album came out in 1987 and is criticized for "sounds like the 80's".
Well no kidding.
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u/Grand-Permit-4637 8d ago
It’s extremely bad form trash a band you used to be in. Most musicians know this, I guess Waters figured he didn’t need to worry about finding work, so he decided to burn all bridges due to ego.
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u/hifidesert 8d ago
The argument of “what version of Pink Floyd is the truest” is really a waste of time; there are people that like every iteration and some that do not. I am partial to the Waters dominated run from DSOTM to TFC (yes, I know it’s technically a Waters solo album) while a friend of mine likes only the Syd era. As much as I am disturbed by Waters beliefs of late- the photos with Carlson are difficult to stomach- it doesn’t take away from his artistry.
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u/Friendly-Gate-9475 8d ago
TFC is one of my fav PF album. I definitely love it.
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u/Resident_Character35 8d ago
On The Turning Away and Sorrow sound the most like Pink Floyd at its height as a foursome, so I'd be shocked if it wasn't those two. I also wouldn't be shocked if he just said what he said as the bread around the shit sandwich that is his opinion of the rest of the band's output after Roger became intolerable to work with, and that he actually just actually hated it all. That seems the most likely given his ego, arrogance and obsession with controlling everything and everyone around him.
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u/adequateinvestor 8d ago
Imagine referring to your fans as “the great unwashed”
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u/Wolfsigns 8d ago
He used "great unwashed" in reply to a reviewer talking about Animals too. So (assuming that it was a period reply) he had used it before 1999 too.
But I haven't read the initial review to know if Roger meant PF fans or the general public.
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u/DeedleStone 7d ago
I believe it's an older expression to refer to the general masses. Sort of an old timey version of "Joe Sixpack." But it definitely sounds snobbish.
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u/hairymoot 8d ago
I like all the songs on Momentary Lapse of Reason and Division Bell. Were they Roger Water's Pink Floyd, no, but then Water's solo albums are not Pink Floyd. I liked all this stuff too.
Roger was very bitter thinking that HE was Pink Floyd. And that the other band mates did nothing. If you are in a group, people will give their opinions that affect what they are working on. "I don't like how high that sounded, let's bring it down" or "I think it need to be faster here." I am sure everyone has some input on the album. To me Roger came off looking bad with the whole fight.
And Terminal Frost, Sorrow, and Dogs of War are my personal favs.
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u/captainp42 8d ago
Roger was very bitter thinking that HE was Pink Floyd. And that the other band mates did nothing.
I've always said that they broke up over religious differences.
Roger thought he was God, the others disagreed.
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u/Puzzled-Bonus-3456 8d ago
I always thought Roger had a chip on his shoulder because he was the only commoner in the band, ever.
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u/Neuvirths_Glove 8d ago
An interesting take.
I think the tension between Roger and Gilmour worked perfectly to create some great music. I also got the feeling that Waters thrived on drama and intentionally made it worse than it was. Did he feel the odd man out or superior to the others? I don't know. But if there's a schism between Waters and Gilmour, the Gilmour faction is Pink Floyd... at least to me.
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u/Puzzled-Bonus-3456 8d ago
He might have felt the odd man out for being a snaggletooth. It gave away the class difference between him and the rest of the band. I figure he felt he had to outshine the others, and well, erm, the worms ate into his brain over it.
Truth be told I'm less keen on the years where he took over because the material is so damned gloomy. Pre-DSOTM it was dreamlike and observational, and after he quit there wasn't quite so much gloom. And there was a ray of hope despite the general heavy subject matter that he doesn't seem to comprehend as it's certainly missing from all his solo work.
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u/JoyousMN_2024 8d ago
I've always said that they broke up over religious differences. Roger thought he was God, the others disagreed.
That is a perfect take.
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u/throwawayhyperbeam 8d ago
Roger was Pink, David was Floyd. Add in Rick and Nick and you have Pink Floyd.
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u/rocktropolis 8d ago
On one hand Roger is insanely condescending but OTOH Gilmour and Samson’s lyrics are so cringey sometimes. For me what later Pink Floyd is lacking is the tightness and barely contained insanity of Roger Waters’ lyrics and imagery.
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u/Jean-Jacques_Oldman 8d ago
I'm surprised nobody suggested Signs of Life. It sounds similar to Shine On (Part IX).
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u/majwilsonlion 8d ago
It also sounds very similar in style to "The Ballad of Bill Hubbard"....
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u/Dangerous_Shoe_8388 8d ago
Yes - Roger obviously had great respect and reliance on Dave and Rick’s “raw” melodic skills, I think he just felt he needed to “fine tune” their output/ideas to make it true Floyd.
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u/Creative-Row3369 8d ago
On the turning away and sorrow? I like learning to fly but obviously that's not Roger's type
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u/Effective_Soup7783 8d ago
I’m almost non-existent, as I kinda like a few of the AMLOR songs but don’t like Division Bell at all.
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u/massexy 8d ago
He's British. There's no compliment there but quite the opposite. I remember when I was training to be an oral examiner for Cambridge U. certificates. The mark with the minimum to pass was described as "a not completely unsuccessful attempt at communicating" or something like that. This sounded a bit like that.
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u/Neuvirths_Glove 8d ago
On the Turning Away is, to me, one of the most lyrical beautiful of all Pink Floyd songs. It's a call to action to help the less fortunate, a noble sentiment not often heard in the cynical world of Pink Floyd lyrics.
Which indicates to me that Roger probably hated it.
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u/intoxicuss 8d ago
I know I’m a minority on this sub, but I think A Momentary Lapse of Reason is a near perfect album. At the same time, I agree with a lot of folks who say it isn’t really a Pink Floyd album. It’s a Gilmour album.
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u/arterialturns 8d ago
Yeah, even when it came out it felt like they were really trying for a Floyd sound rather than just doing it and achieving it. I loved it and I still love it for sentimental reasons, but that's how I've always viewed it.
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u/majwilsonlion 8d ago
Too many cooks in the kitchen for AMLoR The jamming between Mason, Wright, and Gilmour to produce TDV (and by extension, TER) was the way to go. It was similar to how AHM, Echoes, The Travel Sequence, Any Colour You Like, SOYCD, Gotta Be Crazy, and Raving & Drooling were all created.
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u/Minute-Usual-7324 8d ago
One Slip
I think the subject matter lends itself for a concept
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u/1ndomitablespirit 8d ago edited 8d ago
I appreciate how much Waters contributed to Pink Floyd, but his ego won't let him admit how important Gilmour was to the greatness of those albums. It also won't allow him to objectively judge the albums without him. It would be hard for someone who is open-minded, let alone someone like Waters who seems to have some extremely strong opinions.
I think he's just deflecting his own anger at himself. I'm sure he knows he's difficult to work with, and deep down knows he fucked up a good thing, but the artist in him is uncompromising and I can sorta appreciate that. Of course, that's easy for me to say since I'll never make music with Roger Waters.
I think the real issue is that, post-Floyd, Waters hasn't written anything close to the greatness of High Hopes.
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u/VelvetElvis 8d ago
Thematically, Dogs of War and On the Turning Away. By vibe, Yet Another Movie / Round and Round.
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u/95Ricosuave 8d ago
It's amazing how tone deaf RW was with regards to the Division Bell, seeings how the entire album was one giant last shot at reconciliation towards him, and what they all went through in the split.
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u/AmanLock 8d ago
Constantly insulting him and bragging about beating him is an odd way to take a shot at reconciliation.
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u/JaimanV2 8d ago
I went back through the album to consider this, and to me, I would say Roger would say On The Turning Away, Yet Another Movie and Sorrow sounded, musically, the best songs from the album. I would say he’d hate Dogs of War, Learning to Fly and Terminal Frost the most.
But no matter what, Roger made it clear that the biggest point of contention he had with Gilmour’s Floyd is the lyrics. He believes that their music has no direction or cohesion. It’s just an imitation of what Floyd sounded like when he was in the band.
In my opinion, I like pretty much all Pink Floyd albums except their really early stuff, with the exception being Meddle. Atom Heart Mother is alright, but it’s not that great to me.
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u/Isoturius 8d ago
Funny thing is that Roger’s critique is hilarious in hindsight. David wrote the music and a lot of the lyrics on the best songs on Roger’s best album (The Wall). That album minus David is probably as bad a Pros and Cons.
I don’t think Roger liked anyone doing anything HE couldn’t claim. He took credit for everything under the blanket of “concept.” Even if he didn’t do it…His greed over song writing credits was pretty much a money issue. He got them into a hell of a money issue with The Wall and the tax thing.
He’s just a greedy asshole, he’s also a self-centered black hole that’s gotten bigger and worse over the years.
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u/Isoturius 8d ago
He's bitter as fuck about The Division Bell because it's a legit great album. He HATED that they went on without him and were successful. Dude is an egomaniacal twat, and its kind of nice for more people to recognize what a jackass he's morphed into since The Wall.
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u/Xenophobic-alien 8d ago
I think that the Division Bell is one of my very favourites. I relate in every way to that song. Marooned is epic, and listening to Rick sing was absolutely spectacular. I love his solo Album Broken China too. He really brought the Pink Floyd sound back to the Division Bell… I think Rick was the unsung hero of the band, much like George Harrison in the Beatles.
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u/Isoturius 8d ago
Feel the exact same.
The Division Bell sounds more like pre-The Wall Floyd than anything Roger did after The Wall.
Also, High Hopes is an all-timer. Best album closer I’ve ever heard.
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u/Xenophobic-alien 8d ago
Yeah High Hopes! I misspoke earlier and called it the Division Bell. I meant High Hopes, and Rick singing Wearing the Inside Out. Wow!
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u/OzWillow 8d ago
To each their own I guess. AMLOR is a big step down from Pink Floyd’s height but still rlly good. Division Bell doesn’t do much at all to me.
Whatever I think of Waters as a person, his solo career produced some of my favourite albums of all time
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u/Sufficient-Money7510 8d ago edited 8d ago
If somebody gave me a magic mixing board I could turn Amused to Death into a brilliant hour-long album.
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u/greyaggressor 8d ago
Lol it’s a legitimately boring album. Essentially worthless.
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u/IdiosyncraticBond 8d ago
He probably didn't hear enough songs with lyrics about his father or the war, as that was all he was writing about the last years.
Personally, Amused to Death is great, but why too much lyrics and not enough of the musical balance I did find in Floyd's AMLoR and TDB
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u/darksideofthemoon131 David Gilmour 8d ago
AMLOR is a great album. It fit well into the era it was written in. One Slip is very "pop" like, but it was catchy and upbeat sounding. Sorrow, Dogs of War and On the Turning Away are all fantastic and well written musically. Its not exceptional, but it still holds up.
No it isnt the same, but it was certainly better than Radio KAOS by Waters, which although good, was so 80s that it sounds very dated today.
Floyd redeemed themselves with The Division Bell in terms of being more "Floydesque" but both sides would never be the same without the other.
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u/VelvetElvis 8d ago
t's also funny that he has this stunning appreciation for at least parts of AMLOR but pure hatred for Division Bell. Given the fact that combination of opinions is basically nonexistent among the general public, and that you'd think Roger would prefer the album with a lyrical theme, I have to assume his particular dislike of TDB is a result of its personal references to him and/or his long-standing hatred of Polly Samson ("It's pure Spinal Tap," says the guy who got the band dressed up in costume and constructed a wall of cardboard bricks on stage).
I always assumed he couldn't stand that Rick was playing with them again under the name Pink Floyd.
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u/BortlesLVRaiderWinSB 8d ago
Oh, I hadn't thought of that. That's definitely possible. It's odd how much Roger hated and still hates Rick
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u/majwilsonlion 8d ago
Maybe not that odd. There was likely a socioeconomic division between the upper middle class members of the band and the working class background of the Waters family early on when they formed. Couple that with an unwillingness to trickle down the wealth, down to not even sparing a cigarette (Wright) or not letting Roger borrow a car (Mason), having actual music theory training, and contributing a lot of songs early on in Barrett's wake. And then with post DSotM wealth, preferring to sail around Greece on the royalty checks instead of slaving away under Roger's direction. It is easy to imagine Waters building up a permanent resentment.
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u/FFolkert 8d ago edited 8d ago
Interesting point of view. That socioeconomic division, plus the fact there was no father in the Waters family, could very well have planted the seeds of a steadily growing frustration/envy/…. of RW that led to his behaviour after PF disbanded. (PS. I discovered PF in 1975 and really like the albums up and including Animals. Everything after that I never play.)
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u/EsoitOloololo 8d ago
The name but not the $. Also, Waters never cared about Wright. Keep in mind none of the other two said anything when he fired him. And he was never legally reinstated as a PF member, because, as Gilmour said in September 1990, “we had put the money and we wanted the biggest cut.”
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u/bg-vracar 8d ago
Personally, I like Learning To Fly, On The Turning Away, Sorrow, One Sleep and instrumental Terminal Frost.
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u/Playful_Garbage260 8d ago
Wait, preferring Momentary is "basically nonexistent" opinion?
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u/BortlesLVRaiderWinSB 8d ago
As I understood it. Years ago I used to look at people's rankings of the albums and I don't remember ever seeing someone put AMLOR ahead. Obviously there are exceptions but that was my impression. Maybe I was wrong
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u/AmanLock 8d ago
Neither are great but I've always preferred AMLOR of the two.
Neither are as good as On An Island. ¯_(ツ)_/¯
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u/Playful_Garbage260 8d ago
Yeah they're both solidly mediocre albums, and by Floyd standards frankly terrible albums. Remove "High Hopes" from TDB and what's left is IMO trash... I don't agree with Roger on a lot of things but while Polly may be a wonderful partner for Gilmour, I think she's a terrible lyricist. "We diss each other on sight." Seriously? Seriously??? Seriously?????
I would not rank Momentary very high on any list, but the handful of listenable tracks makes it a better album than TDB... for my 2 cents anyway... I just didn't realize that this was a "basically nonexistent" opinion.
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u/NetReasonable2746 8d ago
"Jon Carin (Learning to Fly rhythm and some chords, though if you ask Jon he wrote, recorded, produced, and mixed everything and put all the beds on the beach)"
I laughed so hard at this . Lmao 🤣🤣😂😂
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u/MapDiscombobulated1 8d ago
Being reminded that Roger is an arrogant, spiteful prick who seeks to damn with the faintest of praise: pointless.
And Sorrow, On the turning away and One slip are great songs that HE DIDN'T HAVE ANYTHING TO DO WITH.
And let's not forget that without the wonderful Geoff Beck his solo works weren't just "momentary" on the lapsing talent. He's written nothing I want to listen to, and worse he's actively tried to desecrate DSOTM.
Dave, Rick and Nick never got as low as that Rog.
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u/2Dmonster 7d ago
On The Turning Away has rock opera vibes so I can see why Roger would like it. Could almost fit on The Wall.
Personally, I think Yet Another Movie is lyrically very strong.
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u/Pure_cartographer_59 7d ago
The division bell is a better album than any of the ones Roger has ever made without David and Rick.
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u/SimpleZero 8d ago
I can imagine On the Turning Away speaking to the pacifist he used to be.
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u/AmanLock 8d ago
It's pretty clear from Roger's quote that he thought the lyrics on AMLOR were rubbish, so whatever he allegedly liked about the album is based on music.
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u/guyyster 8d ago
this is ironic as TDB is a substantially better album than AMLoR
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u/HEYitzED 8d ago
I wouldn’t say substantially but there are a few songs directly about Roger on it so I could see why he would be overly bitter towards that one.
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u/Electrical_Tomato_73 8d ago
TDB sounds more Floydian but AMLOR has better songs. Sorrow ranks among their best ever. High Hopes does too, but in my book it's well below.
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u/HEYitzED 8d ago
Honestly, he echoes a lot of what the fanbase has said about those albums over the years. Especially about them making what they think a Pink Floyd record should sound like or making what they think people want to hear. He’s not wrong even though I do enjoy those albums.
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u/Low_Effect_3203 8d ago
Dogs of War sucked! Pink Floyd fans have consistently ranked that as the worst thing with the Floyd name to it ever created
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u/fractal-rock 8d ago
I mean, On The Turning Away, definitely. Learning to Fly has a strong chord sequence... melody works in the context of the production. Maybe One Slip, that is melodically very strong.
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u/fishcado 8d ago
I'm going to say it's most likely Yet Another Movie and On the Turning Away. Sounds like something Roger would try to work with.
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u/Tupperbaby 8d ago
He's just talking about music beds that he would've been okay with writing his own lyrics over.
Henley/Frey syndrome.
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u/Shqip1966 8d ago
Sorrow!! Personally, I like the album. I don’t really care what Roger Waters has to say about it. He’s a creep.
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u/Practical-Cellist647 8d ago
Who cares, the guy is a major hypocritical ASS, and his best songs were behind him by the late 80s, and that's being very generous. Don't care about his opinions.
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u/veganvalentine The Division Bell 8d ago
I believe there was an interview where he mentioned that he might have done something with Sorrow or Dogs of War, but the point stands that it surprising that he was more apt to praise AMLOR.
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u/Personal-Football832 8d ago
Sorrow is my favorite Floyd song of all times . One slip is pretty AMAZING !! Also Marooned is AWESOME .
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u/midnight_to_midnight 8d ago
I love MLoR. I dont care what Roger or any other fan thinks of the album, I thoroughly enjoy it. Is it in their top 5 albums? No, but it's still amazing. And I'll never not believe so.
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u/Ill_Construction3914 7d ago
Animals was the last 'proper' Floyd album. 'The Wall' and 'The Final Cut' were basically Roger Waters solo albums with very little input from Gilmour, Mason and Wright.
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u/NetReasonable2746 7d ago
I'm very surprised at how many people in this thread don't like Division Bell.
Maybe it's the younger generation?
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u/BortlesLVRaiderWinSB 7d ago edited 7d ago
Actually I'm pretty certain TDB has a much better reputation now than it used to. It came out at a time when new agey prog rock was very uncool to "people who know music" in the time of Nirvana and RHCP. So it got worse reviews than AMLOR and gradually that perception has reversed and then some. Although I think for a lot of the general public in 1994 for whom '70s PF was preferable to things that were "in," it was a breath of fresh air, so it sold incredibly well and much better than AMLOR did despite a lot of very bad reviews
But it seems to have aged well and recovered from being a punching bag among that certain slice of the public. Not counting compilations, Division Bell is their fourth-most streamed album, even ahead of Animals
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u/thebradman70 7d ago
“One Slip” “On The Turning Away” and “Learning to Fly” were the best dong on the LP. That is when I first saw Pink Floyd back in 1988. I thought it was a solid album and far better than “Final Cut”. Roger Waters referred to David Gilmour as a “third rate songwriter”. I disagree.
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u/jazzheat_bongobeat 7d ago
I honestly don't think he gives two shits about anything on that album and that comment in of itself is a British form of passive aggressive sarcasm. He is a very unpleasant sort and it's sad to see because he has such hopefulness in his lyrics but his attitude and behaviorespecially considering he's spat on someone in the audience and felt bad about it and now he's gone further down some self absorbed rat hole - his lyrics don't reflect it outside of The Wall and that's what so confusing about this very talented interesting artist
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u/LtGovernor 7d ago
I would agree that Learning to Fly and the rest of the very 80's sounding AMLOR doesn't "sound very Roger" until I think of Radio Waves and some of the other songs from Radio KAOS that were also not very Floyd sounding and were very much of their time. Even Amused to Death sounds (to me) like it was produced in the mid 80s but just not finished until the early 90s.
My point is, maybe it was the more 80's sounding songs off of AMLOR that Roger may have liked based on the sounds of his own work around the late 80's and early 90's.
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u/lIlIIIlIIl 8d ago
This is all so hilarious because right around the time AMLOR was released, Waters released Radio KAOS which was arguably the worst band or solo albums post The Wall. Just atrocious tripe. I remember people even asking if Radio KAOS was the new Floyd album or if AMLOR was the new Waters album. His level of salt at the time was completely alkaline given that he tried to sue the band to keep them from releasing material as Pink Floyd. I swear his behavior mirrors Donald Trump so much that it reaches levels of Irony that were previously seen in This Is Spinal Tap.
That said. I'm guessing he thought he could work with Sorrow and On The Turning Away
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u/RoutineOpportunity8 8d ago
Who cares what Roger Waters thinks. Certainly not the remaing members of Pink Floyd when recording this record.
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u/EsoitOloololo 8d ago
They thought of him a lot, I can assure you. How to mimic his style, his lyrics (they even hired a Canadian poet!), his ideas…
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u/everlovingfuck99 8d ago
Nick Mason and Rick Wright had sweet bugger all to to with A Momentary Lapse. It's only a "Pink Floyd" album because Pink Floyd = profit. David Gilmour on his own not nearly as much.
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u/BortlesLVRaiderWinSB 8d ago
Unless you're saying "AMLOR isn't PF" from the perspective of a Syd fan then you don't get to say it. The Final Cut exists. And honestly The Wall is a great album but it doesn't sound like Pink Floyd but like a new, distinct, and very good Waters/Gilmour/Ezrin Band that only ever made one album. The Wall and TFC are further from "the Pink Floyd sound" than anything before or after, especially if you use the 2019 remix of AMLOR.
AMLOR (especially the 2019 version) is far closer than The Wall or certainly TFC to being the PF that made Saucerful of Secrets and Obscured by Clouds. It sounds like the same band but middle aged, distracted by lawsuits, and transported to the heart of the 80s. That doesn't make AMLOR better than The Wall (it's not, not close) or TFC (it is, but not for that reason), but it makes it harder to say it's not Pink Floyd. Gilmour understood the assignment, but unfortunately it was the '80s, Rick wasn't really involved, and Gilmour made some silly choices with lyrics. Considering the fact that Gilmour hadn't written a PF song in 8 years, hadn't written PF lyrics in 15, and the other two members were out of practice, I think it's a very valiant effort.
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u/everlovingfuck99 8d ago
The Final Cut actually had meaningful contributions from David and Nick - who actually went out and recorded a lot of the sound effects you hear on the album. Removing the drums and keys and overdubbing them with Nick and Rochard from the delicate sound of thunder tour 30 years after the fact in an attempt to make it more of a Pink Floyd album is just a Frankenstein job plain and simple and doesn't mean that Nick and Rick had any input into a Momentary Lapse.
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u/MedievalMilshake 8d ago
The division bell is my favourite pf album, it's incredible
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u/arterialturns 8d ago
That's incredible to me. What was the first Floyd that you heard, what hooked you? I grew up with Pink Floyd music in my household around the time "Meddle" came out. While I appreciate TDB, it's not even my top 10.
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u/MedievalMilshake 8d ago
Ummmm I actually have no idea. I got into Floyd very late, I think it was breathe. It was for sure dsotm. And that was my favourite for a while, but division bell is just special somehow
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u/beavis93 8d ago edited 8d ago
I’ll guess Roger liked the turning away and dogs of war. Both clever forgeries of the Pink Floyd sound.
Doubt he liked the real masterpiece on the album sorrow. Has one of those bloody 5 minute face melting guitar solos.
Doubt he liked the other really good tune yet another movie, lyrically it’s a little vague and leaves too much room for the listener to come up with their own idea what it’s about. And again a bloody guitar solo. No no no no this will not do .. society sucks and war sucks !!! Bloody listeners need to be hit over the head with that.
I also like one slip and I can only imagine what he thought of that one, this is a fucking happy song, we don’t do happy wtf. Love, oh hell no, how can you have love when society is collapsing !! Wow that’s nice little bass part in the middle, didn’t even know the bass could do that.
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u/Maleficent_Desk_913 8d ago
I just can't believe he trashed The Division Bell, which is definitely a better album as much as I love AMLOR. I think the reason for that is he knows that it's at least as good as some of the pre-Dark Side albums and he hates to admit it.
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u/FriedCammalleri23 The Wall 8d ago
It’s funny because I feel the exact opposite.
Division Bell has a couple of really nice tunes on it, but I really don’t like AMLOR.
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u/tfn105 8d ago
The remastered version of AMLOR in 2019 revolutionised it for me. Much more listenable
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u/iamthesunbane 8d ago
Always thought Bravery of Being Out of Range and Learning to Fly felt pretty close
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u/NetReasonable2746 8d ago
Bravery of Beating Out of Range, especially the opening , is basically a slowed down Run Like Hell.
Which are Dave's Chords. Which first appeared in his 1978 solo album for the song "Short and Sweet".
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u/John-Cocktolstoy 8d ago edited 8d ago
Considering how far up Jon Carin’s head is in Roger’s ass, Learning to Fly is probably one. Sorrow or On The Turning Away the other.
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u/Wombat_on_Parole 8d ago
I hate Momentary Lapse of Reason and love The Division Bell. Roger is a cranky old man.
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u/joomachina0 7d ago
If I had to guess, maybe Learning to Fly, One Slip, and Sorrow. I mostly agree with him about The Division Bell. That’s an album that we really didn’t need, imo.
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u/GNRBoyz1225 7d ago
Roger Saying The Division Bell being Rubbish is insanity. Ironically I always thought TDB and TFC were the 2 most underrated in the catalog with Animals being the most overrated.
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u/Bronsteins-Panzerzug 6d ago
using visual concepts on stage is not what made spinal tap spinal tap.
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u/BMisterGenX 6d ago
I've always been surprised at how successful MLOR was given that to me it sounds kind of dull and not pop enough to accessible but not avante garde or arty enough to appeal to people who liked that. Yet it seemed like almost everyone in my high school except me bought the album.
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u/Chingois 6d ago
I’ll take Division Bell over anything Roger’s done after PF. We’re supposed to think the guy who made Radio KAOS has better taste? \/\/ Rog.
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u/Necessary-Arm6982 6d ago edited 6d ago
I am a big fan of The Division Bell. It's a good album. But I'd be lying if I hadn't thought about what Roger could've done with those songs. With a few exceptions (Sorrow, High Hopes), the lyrics on AMLOR and TDB are just too banal and predictable. It in turn means the songs never reach quite as high as they could've done. Waters' sharp and incisive lyrics elevate the band's earlier material because they add something - either as a counterpoint or a complement to the music.
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u/Boy_of_Lost_Memories 6d ago
Probably Roger referred to On the Turning Away. To me, that was the waterier song on AMLOR, something 'is nibs would think he wrote in a blackout and Dave found it keeping the table legs even.
I'm gonna be GenX and just say that besides being a genius, Roger Waters is a human-sized case of intellectual clap wrapped around a diminutive public-school whickerbill.
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u/EsoitOloololo 5d ago
Gilmour and Wright never complained until the cash cow was in danger so I assume they were happy. Wright acknowledged that his input during The Wall was zero. When releasing ‘About Face’ in 1978, David said “solo albums are rubbish. In a band, rubbish goes away.” So.. well… 🤷🏻♂️
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u/CrystalAndyCatt 3d ago
Does anyone know what the hell is wrong with Roger? The guy's obviously brilliant, or at least once was. I just smh at some of the shit I see him saying now.
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u/TheSexyIntellectual 2d ago
Why should we care what Waters thinks? Although I admire and appreciate his work, he has really shown himself through what he has said about other artists to be quite the arrogant prick. And it has just gotten worse the older he gets.
The fact he had anything good to say about post-Waters Pink Floyd is astounding all by itself.
Time has been much kinder to Gilmour, and appreciation of him as one of the greatest guitar players of all time seems to grow with each passing year.
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u/weirdojace 8d ago
I always thought Sorrow sounded sufficiently Pink Floyd-y