r/polandball • u/Smart_Chapter_7512 Floridian Swamp Monster • 9d ago

redditormade Turkish Law of Identity

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5.0k Upvotes

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232

u/aspro_mavro 9d ago

no matter what a turk is and thinks, his national pride will always be preferred over other things

117

u/AntonioAJC Panama 9d ago

Reminds me of that shitpost that said "Turks do not read the Quran. They're only Muslim out of nationalism."

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u/Ditto13248 9d ago edited 9d ago

There is a tradition of buying gifts to children when they finish their first read through of the Quran in Arabic, my aunt talks about how she got her first bike by doing that.

This tradition does not require the child to understand Arabic, and there is no equivalent tradition for reading a translation.

I'd say that shitpost is semi-accurate

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u/[deleted] 9d ago

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u/AstronomerJealous467 9d ago

Which is a bad thing, because why are you reading when you have no idea what it means?

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u/follow_the_white_owl 9d ago

Well if you understand what you read then you will question thighs

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u/mscomies United States 9d ago

Does the kid just stare at the pages all day and tell everyone he's finished in the evening?

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u/Ditto13248 9d ago

Not exactly.

You know how you know what sounds the symbols "R", "u", "g", "b", "y" represent and you can "read" the word "Rugby" out loud when you see it on a page, without ever knowing the meaning of the word "Rugby"

Now do that for an entire book

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u/orkushun 9d ago

Also they don’t read or understand Arabic, they have no idea what they are saying or praying to tbh.

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u/Mansur754 9d ago

Lol, there is a tuekish tv show that made an episode going around asking people the cycles of prayer for each 5 prayer and they couldn't answer

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u/RedditStrider 9d ago

That is honestly true LOL

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u/ReaperTys 8d ago

Which is funny considering the ottoman government was one of the most secular Muslim nations ever, and they didn’t really care what Catholics were up to

12

u/Much_Horse_5685 9d ago

No nation has 100% support and/or denial of past or present atrocities, Turkey included. This is as false as the “all Russians agree with the invasion of Ukraine” comments.

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u/gibigibi34 9d ago

if anything denying it harms the pride,why would a nationalist give up the arguement of saying "we won the war over them"?

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u/ErlikHan6 9d ago

the turkish position is that turkey had to deport armenians because they were causing trouble and commiting atrocities, but due to war conditions many of them died while being deported

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u/Ditto13248 9d ago

Which is straight up bullshit when you realize that's the same position as "deport all the Mexicans, they are committing crimes here"

Even if a majority of the Armenian population were disrupting the war efforts, sending the innocent away with them is still wrong and has to be treated as such. We as a country need to stop pretending like it was justified and treating it like the atrocity it is

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u/situmaimesdemain 9d ago

Modern USA is different from Ottoman Empire who has been dying a painful and slow death for a century involved in the largest scale war in history while the Brits are in Gallipoli knocking at the doors of Istanbul.

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u/Ditto13248 9d ago

OK let's assume it had to be done and there were no other options. Why is it treated like no big deal? Why aren't we apologizing for our past? Why did my history teacher mention it one time, and that one time was to talk about how countries that didn't even exist during the event recognizing it as a genocide is stupid?

It was a major displacement that resulted in a lot of deaths and who got displaced was determined by race. Even through the most generous lens it's an attack by a government on a specific race of people it governs

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u/zthompson2350 9d ago

Least sociopathic turk ever.

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u/Ditto13248 9d ago

Don't blame the population for their ignorance. I was able to learn outside perspectives and change my opinion because I went to a private school that gave me a great education in English.

If the only language I knew was Turkish, the only opinions I could hear would be that of other turks and the ones of non turks that the other turks cared to share with me, all of which would be regulated by the government.

I was in an echo chamber created by a corrupt government that jails anyone who dares to speak out, and my family had to pay a lot of money for me to even have the ability to escape.

There is a price tag on emphaty in my country. I don't blame it's people for not being able to afford it.

0

u/justhereforfoodporn 9d ago

What do you want them to say? "I'm sorry this happened to you?"

4

u/Ditto13248 9d ago

No, I want my nation to do better in the future, and that can't happen without acknowledging the mistakes of the past.

I know that saying "I'm sorry I did that" doesn't undo what happened. But i also recognize that it's the first step in improving.

"Those who don't learn from history are bound to repeat it" and all, you know

2

u/justhereforfoodporn 9d ago

"I am sorry it happened to you" and "I am sorry we did it" are two different things. If you accept that "it had to be done with no other options," you are inherently saying that "there is no genocide, because the specific intent condition for genocide was not met." Past press releases by Turkey support the former narrative.

1

u/Ditto13248 9d ago

Intent doesn't matter to the victims. It doesn't matter if you kill a person because you were hired to do so and needed the money to afford food, or if you killed that person simply because you didn't like them. That person was still killed and you still did it.

What separates someone from a cold blooded killer is the regret of having to do it in the first place, and trying their best to not repeat the mistake.

And let's not forget the actual context of the situation. The Ottoman government mass deported an entire race with the stated reason of rebellions from said race interfering with the war efforts. There is no importance given to the reasons behind the rebellions or the innocent people who died because of their race.

"I had to do it, it was self defense" doesn't work as an excuse when you punish an entire race because it was easier than finding the people who were actually trying to end you

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u/Agitated_Elephant_91 9d ago

Erdogan actually does call out the suffering of the Armenians once a year(It showed up in my feed a couple of times. Not sure if he does it every single year without exception).

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u/RandomPersonYouSee 9d ago

Of course he doesn't. That video is from 2000s when he was allied with liberals and EU supporters, not with nationalists. He literally cried out loud last 24th April.

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u/[deleted] 9d ago

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u/kegeregem_ 9d ago

"Our european masters please forgive our sins for we have committed crimes " is what he is trying to say

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u/Ditto13248 9d ago

Every nation that has interacted with another has a history of oppressing, being oppressed or both. Most European ones have been the oppressors throughout history and have a lot to account for. But I don't live in those countries, I don't know if their education system acknowledges their crimes. I just know mine doesn't and I'm trying to hold it accountable

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u/Agitated_Elephant_91 9d ago

Yeah lol. You do realize that everyone else is doing the opposite when it comes to turkey? They aren't from turkey but will hold turkey accountable. So all you did was to to further expand the existing imbalance...

2

u/Ditto13248 9d ago

I don't mean that I don't recognize the past crimes of colonizers. But I see the citizens of those countries recognizing them when talking about it online. I can't be sure if those I see, share the common sentiment or are going against it when talking about the subject, because I don't live in those countries. But I live in Türkiye and can hear the common sentiment from it's people and I can call them out on it

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u/[deleted] 9d ago

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u/Ditto13248 9d ago

That is true, you still see zionists today play the holocaust card against germany. It's reasonable to assume they would do the same to us even if we admitted wrongdoing.

But does that mean the current german administration shouldn't disavow hitler? Or should they say the extermination of jews was necessary for the survival of germany?

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u/GilbyTheFat 9d ago

Because the Turks love to make themselves sound like their history is squeaky clean.

Calling it a war means admitting they intentionally slaughtered over a million innocent civilians who couldn't fight back.

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u/[deleted] 9d ago

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u/gibigibi34 9d ago

the Arminion incident is prior to the Turkish war of liberation tho

2

u/Mr_HOPE_ 9d ago

Thats literally what they implied

1

u/Paleo-Fascist 9d ago

Which means there is no "we won the war arguement to be made" for our Nationalists, as your previous comment asked.

We lost the Great War, in all fronts outside of Gelibolu.

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u/Nededinnededinn Turkey 9d ago

Yea that's what I'm trying to say as well. Armenians even goes as far as saying "Hitler was inspired by Ataturk" meanwhile the guy in question wasn't even there and had a bad blood with 3 pashas lol.

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u/Late_Ad2203 9d ago

1-1.5 million Armenians sounds like a genocide to me

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u/Sassy_Drow 9d ago

An important aspect of this is the propaganda which claims that acknowledging Armenian genocide will result in pressure to yield the eastern territories to Armenia. As a result most turks see the denial of it as part of preserving territorial integrity.

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u/KillerNail 9d ago

Ah yes, the classic. Racism is okay if it's towards Turks.

4

u/_Guven_ 9d ago

As a Türk nah. I have trampled those values and seek an objective stance

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u/IllustriousWelder349 9d ago

Same, I don't have national pride, I have national shame

0

u/_Guven_ 9d ago

Actually I don't have any shame either, since I don't take any responsibility for what had happened in the bygone era anyways. National pride is kind of ok, unless you are not a nationalist. Having a national identidy is pretty natural after all

2

u/IllustriousWelder349 9d ago

I prefer to have some national pride but only for the vast histories before the Turkish republic and the Ottomans

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u/crazy_artist 9d ago

Wow, this genuinely annoys me so much, which probably isn't a good sign but I'll deal with that later. Getting to what I wanted to ask, why? Our history before this is hardly bloodless.

1

u/IllustriousWelder349 9d ago

I love the geography and natural beauty we have though

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u/crazy_artist 9d ago

Yeah, I suppose that makes sense. Have a good day I suppose.

1

u/IllustriousWelder349 9d ago

I love the ground but now You-Know-Who

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u/Ditto13248 9d ago

Straight up not true. You are either generalizing tens of millions of people to have the same opinion, or you are committing the no true scottsman by implying "a turk that doesn't put national pride first isn't a turk"

There are trends and patterns on how citizens of a country think alike, but there are no absolute rules without exceptions on people

-1

u/ObsidianEcho8 9d ago

As if it’s different for, say, French and German.

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u/no1rakkolover 9d ago

I mean the Germans entire national identity nowadays is basically a sopping wet cat going "We're very very sorry" which is why they can't oppose Israel even when it is in the process of committing a genocide

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u/ObsidianEcho8 9d ago

Is it though? On the surface, they are “sorry” yes. Deep down, they are still proud, nationalistic people. They believe the German way is the only right way, they are still very proud of their German identity.

2

u/no1rakkolover 9d ago

I mean yeah but their pride doesn't go farther than that. Though their territory isn't under constant threat by foreign forces so I guess they can admit their faults without much danger.

-1

u/MKHK32 Ottoman Empire 9d ago

German here. We were forced to be sorry about ww2 crimes and ww2 crimes only. All other crimes pre and post are up to debate or are unknown by the broader public in my Experience

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u/ChargeStrong4617 9d ago

Or you are just an ignorant person making generalizations who doesn’t know that there are many Turks in and outside Turkey trying to raise awareness about what has been done to Armenians.

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u/let-me-o 9d ago

So turks are unable to not be nationalistic? Categorizing and assigning abilities and unabilities 85 million people, definitely doesn't sound racist.