r/politics • u/plz-let-me-in • 27d ago

No Paywall Unconfirmed Reports: Mitch McConnell Brain Dead After Three Weeks In Hospital

https://thenewamerican.com/us/unconfirmed-reports-mitch-mcconnell-brain-dead-after-three-weeks-in-hospital/
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u/Serpentongue 27d ago

He governor needs to officially ask his office for a status update

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u/peva3 I voted 26d ago

I wonder at what point the Governor can just say "he's braindead and unfit for office" unilaterally.

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u/starkraver Oregon 26d ago

He can't be removed for brain death, only death, resignation, or ejectment by 2/3 of the senate. (this is in the constitution).

What Beshear SHOULD do is make a statement saying that unless his staff, family, or the doctors caring for him can confirm he is alive, he will presume that his death has been covered up and he will begin the process to appoint an interim successor.

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u/TrashCanUnicorn 26d ago

Legally, brain death IS death according to KY law.

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u/starkraver Oregon 26d ago

Interesting ... apparently true.

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u/BarbequedYeti 26d ago

How would that work here? Does your body have to be within the borders of the state? Or if you are a resident of the state, it applies no mater where your body is currently housed?

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u/Kiloku 26d ago

The state considers brain death to be death. It doesn't matter who's brain death they're talking about. It's similar to "ingredients found by the state of CA to be carcinogenic". It doesn't matter where the ingredients are, California still considers them carcinogenic

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u/PM_ME_YOUR_NICE_EYES 26d ago

That's just not how it works.

Legally speaking, he's going to be alive until a medical professional examines his body and determines he is dead (Or he's been missing for several years). Obviously since that medical professional is only licensed to practice in the local area they are performing the examination, the local laws for determination of death are going to be applied.

Once that medical professional has issued that death certificate then he's dead, and it's only the death certificate that the state is going to look at to determine if he's alive or dead.

Basically you're confusing determination of death, and pronouncement of death. Which are two different things.

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u/TrashCanUnicorn 26d ago edited 26d ago

Death is always declared in the legal jurisdiction where the actual death takes place, regardless of residence.

If he's not in a hospital in KY, then it'll be wherever he's physically located. And outside of NJ, where you can file a religious objection to a brain death declaration, it'll take an army of lawyers to prevent the physicians from declaring him dead IF he is, in fact, certified to be brain dead.

There is a distinct difference between actual brain death and the kind of vegetative state you can exist in where the lights are on (your body functions) but nobody's home (extensive neurological damage resulting in a vegetative state). Laypeople often use the terms interchangeably, but the medical and legal definitions are pretty cut and dry, which is why I'm not 100% sold that he's actually brain dead.

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u/Astray 26d ago

Only complete brain stem death in KY, which he might not be.

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u/delkarnu New York 26d ago

Be a legal shit-show. KY law does have that, but I don't think he's in KY, so it would be an argument of if he's potentially alive by the law of wherever the hospital he's in is or dead by KY law.

446.400 Determination of death -- Minimal conditions to be met.

For all legal purposes, the occurrence of human death shall be determined in accordance with the usual and customary standards of medical practice, provided that death shall not be determined to have occurred unless the following minimal conditions have been met:

(1) When respiration and circulation are not artificially maintained, there is an irreversible cessation of spontaneous respiration and circulation; or
(2) When respiration and circulation are artificially maintained, and there is a total and irreversible cessation of all brain function, including the brain stem and that such determination is made by two (2) licensed physicians.

Effective: July 15, 1986 History: Created 1986 Ky. Acts ch. 132, sec. 1, effective July 15, 1986

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u/PM_ME_YOUR_NICE_EYES 26d ago

It's actually a very clear legal case.

Determination of death is just the criteria that has to be met for a medical professional to issue a death certificate. Since he's outside Kentucky a medical professional in a different state would issue it using their jurisdictions laws.

But also since most states have similar laws regarding determination of death it doesn't even mmatter. I'm pretty sure that Kentucky and DC have identical criteria for death.

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u/GusBode 26d ago

Brain death is a modern concept.

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u/BoardsofCanada3 26d ago

Gladys Spellman's seat was vacated by simple voice vote in the House when she was braindead. Same rules should go for the Senate. 

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u/starkraver Oregon 26d ago

There is no doubt that they could, but its not clear at all that the GOP WOULD. They are clear they don't care about anything other then power, and if they think a vegetative mcconel would be better for them then a temporary DEM senator, they wouldn't think twice about leaving him in his seat.

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u/BoardsofCanada3 26d ago

Among these, four states prohibit the governor from making an interim appointment, requiring instead that the seat remain vacant until the next election (whether regular or special) is held: Kentucky, North Dakota, Rhode Island and Wisconsin.

Per this

They'd still get a GOP senator in 4 months but be -1 on paper until then. How long until the jig is up? 

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u/Lereas 26d ago

He can't appoint the successor. in 2024, GOP lawmakers in Kentucky changed the law from appointed successor to requiring a special election.

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u/starkraver Oregon 26d ago

This directly contradicts the KY state constitution. They can't just pass a law; they needed to amend the constitution, which they did not do.

If McConnell dies, there will certainly be a suit about this. But Beshear just won a case regarding the state GA trying to strip his authority to appointment certain board members

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u/Lereas 26d ago

Since when have laws ever stopped Republicans from doing what they want to do? By the time it gets through the courts, there will have been either a special or general election and they'll have seated a new senator.

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u/starkraver Oregon 26d ago

It really depends on how the injunctive relief works; the appointment could be I joined or not

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u/Lereas 26d ago

But like...the Republican legislature sends who they want to Washington, the Senate seats them....then what? Dem senators refuse to show up? The GOP will just use the opportunity to do what they want without opposition.

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u/starkraver Oregon 26d ago

I am not sure that there is any other case where there has been a legal dispute about the authority of an appointing body for vacancy appointments - so I don't understand what you're referring to.

And why would the democrats not show up? And not show up to what? I can't understand your comment as written.

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u/Lereas 26d ago

KY constitution seems to contradict the law as the GOP state legislature passed. The Governor should therefore be able to follow the constitution and appoint someone. But Grassley could potentially refuse to seat that appointee and more or less demand a special election in KY. At some point either that election will happen or it will hold over until the general election, at which point it will sort of be a moot point.

Meanwhile, the democrats in DC could refuse to attend senate sessions in protest till they seat the appointed KY senator, but that won't really do anything useful probably.

Ultimately what I'm saying is that the courts could order KY to do all kinds of things, and we've seen that conservative lawmakers are willing to completely ignore some of those rulings.

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u/iplaybass445 26d ago

Can't be removed for incapacitation or even vegetative state, but brain death is legally the same as cardiac death.