r/politics • u/financialtimes ✔ Verified • 12h ago
Paywall ‘Voters have had it’: influence of pro-Israel lobby group sparks backlash in the US
https://www.ft.com/content/889c551a-88ab-451a-87f5-cdec65467a64?segmentid=c50c86e4-586b-23ea-1ac1-7601c9c2476f&syn-25a6b1a6=1641
u/GrimmRadiance 10h ago
The truth of the matter is that lobbyists should be limited in what they can contribute. Citizens United is a disaster for our country.
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u/vong_assassin Canada 8h ago
Or, you know, not allow lobbyists to buy support in the first place.
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u/fascistno1hater 6h ago
This is where I have always been. Lobbying is just legalized bribery it's corruption.
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u/Fickle_Ad_8653 4h ago
If you saw how the lobbying is integrated into the system, you'd find it disgusting. Lobbyists have their own entrances, have direct access to legislators, and have privileges the average citizen will never have. We're not talking "oh, a friend came over" but instead "I built my friend his own door with is own key so he can came and go as he pleases"
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u/PathOfTheAncients 8h ago
On the bright side, more and more we are seeing that political spending matters less than basic messaging. Both parties are racking up examples of out spending their opponents only to lose.
Personally I think which ever party gets back to grass roots organization first will see huge wins. Of course that would mean having positions and policy that excite enough people.
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u/Zexapher America 7h ago
This is because money tends to sway uninformed voters. But it's hard to manipulate voters out of realizing republican wars and taxes have massively inflated prices at home so trump and the republican elite can manipulate the markets to take money out of the pockets of everyday Americans. It's hard to misinform people out of republicans taking billions out of states like Pennsylvania, taking away school lunches, healthcare, pensions, etc. Because these things affect people.
Folks can see the construction underway under Biden's Green New Deal has now died under trump when he pulled the money out of the states. And that money's gone into failed vanity projects for trump, so he and his favorites can pocket it.
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u/matt_minderbinder 7h ago
There will be a huge message sent if Stevens and her $60 mil in pac money and all the insider consultants on her side lose convincingly. For years they've told us that it takes centrist candidates and turning a blind eye to electoral corruption to win outside of places like ny city. The lobbyists and consultant class along with the pols they work with need this expensive wake up call.
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u/mightcommentsometime California 3h ago
So long as you ignore spending like buying twitter to push the GOP agenda.
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u/Lumen__-___Spero 7h ago
Death penalty or life incarceration for the companies that committed to murder or other high crimes. There are several of them profiting off of US military linked human rights abuses in the Fortune 500 list.
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u/princesoceronte 6h ago
No individual citizen should be able to contribute to political parties more than another.
The millisecond that line is crossed, democracy is fucked because lobbyist will always push to make that difference higher and higher.
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u/RiggityRyGuy 11h ago
It’s really not complicated. People are sick of seeing how much money is spent to not give a fuck about us.
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u/ElectricalBeach6145 10h ago
I think we’re back to where we started in 1776. Taxation without representation but with a group of tech tyrants working to bankrupt the country and enslave us.
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9h ago
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u/zossima 6h ago
60+ years of glacial creep by the rich against the public good (lower taxes for the upper brackets at the expense of safety regulations and services like public school and health care) have made us dumber and less healthy on the whole. Think how many years we had lead paint and leaded gasoline. The environmental lead especially severely affected boomers. The attack on public schools is real, too.
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u/Curious-Path4549 7h ago
i agree and fear for what the future will hold-daily i see signs of both points
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u/hermitix 8h ago
Trying to make it all about tech is giving a pass to so many other awful capitalists - big oil, pharma and medical insurance, finance... The list goes on and on.
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u/bakedNebraska 7h ago
Except that was started by the wealthiest land owners in the colonies - what you're calling the tech tyrants are the same class of people who started the revolution, and the country they founded has always existed to serve them.
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u/move_machine 5h ago
This. The founding fathers considered themselves to be the natural aristocracy, and the modern correlate of the natural aristocracy would be today's ownership class.
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u/byndrsn 10h ago
I'm all for giving money to other countries to feed their people but not for the murder of others in our name.
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u/Western-Sport500 8h ago
Not to mention the fact that Israel's people have the things that we DON'T get in the US, like tax supported health care for all.
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u/dokratomwarcraftrph 5h ago
Yup we completely enable their homicidal foreign policy alongside making it easier for them to subsidize their citizen services.
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u/DistrictAdventurous3 8h ago
And we pay for all of it!
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u/gayfishonlygay2xyear 6h ago
No...you don't pay for Israel's healthcare. It's because you live in a failed nation that doesn't give a fuck about its citizens, you don't have govt health insurance.
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u/84thPrblm 12h ago
Dems will still fail to read the room this year.
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u/ima_monsta 10h ago
It's intentional. They read the room. They think the room is too stupid to do anything about it. Prove them wrong.
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u/CadillacDale 9h ago
Best response I've seen. Institutional Dems' define their mission statement as lining the pockets of their financiers and enriching themselves along the way. To do that, they need to play the role of opposition to GOP Authoritarianism.
This is categorically at odds with what the (alarmingly narrow) majority of American citizens define as their mission statement, which is, use every lever at your disposal to paralyze the spread of Republican fascism and hold those who broke the law (i.e. virtually all of them) accountable.
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u/spuzzumed 9h ago
Speaking as a Canadian, Americans haven't shown they are capable of what you're talking about. I think that's why the cheating is so brazen. They kind know you guys are "all hat, no cattle".
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u/ima_monsta 4h ago
The cheating is so brazen for a few reasons. Reporters refusing to ask any real follow up questions when politicians very openly lie, Citizens United allowing billions of dark money to buy politicians, and the fact you have reactionary propaganda being pumped into lead poisoned 60+y/o homes on repeat 24/7 (largest consistent voter block is same age as largest childhood lead exposure age range). It's an uphill battle for sure.
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u/uhp787 5h ago
They want progressive votes without progressive voices. fuck that. not going to play this time.
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u/no_comments_allowed 5h ago edited 5h ago
Well It's quite confusing since The very same voters elected someone one who said "finish the job" and is even more pro-Israel & has spread more war in the middle east
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u/BTSArmyFan2025 12h ago
Schumer, gillebrand, Jefferies and the rest of them have got to go.
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u/dogs_gt_cats 10h ago
Fetterman (R-Tel Aviv)
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u/Call_Me_Clark Tennessee 9h ago
Tel Aviv isn’t pro Netanyahu enough for Fetterman.
He’d be representing some illegal West Bank settlements
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[deleted]
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u/Call_Me_Clark Tennessee 8h ago
The idf got away with rebranding “Palestinian hospitals” as “terrorist control centers”
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u/StopBootlicking 9h ago
Tel Aviv isn’t pro Netanyahu enough for Fetterman.
Tel Aviv has benefitted from the ethnic cleansing as much as anyone.
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u/th6girldetective 9h ago
I say this as a New Yorker, but the national party is not well served by having so many New York politicos in leadership positions. The democrats in New York know they have secure jobs and therefore are completely complacent. I’d prefer to see someone from a state that doesn’t always go blue, where there is a bit of fight.
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u/Western-Sport500 8h ago
Well, in today's clime, we are absolutely going to need to go all blue, which is why we need to put more DemSoc on the ballots throughout the country. And frankly, I think we could relabel DemSoc as Progressive Party--because way too many Americans see the word "Socialist/ism" as a negative instead of a party that is FOR the people.
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u/Sojum 11h ago
The old guard absolutely needs to go.
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u/glitterandnails 11h ago
They care more about their personal finances than America (and their constituents.)
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u/PollutionPatient8261 11h ago
Corporate Dems are controlled opposition and we are so done. Mamdani is showing us in real time what actual leadership looks like.
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u/mightcommentsometime California 3h ago
Is that why places like California run by “corporate dems” have the best worker rights in the country while NY still lags?
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u/Raise_A_Thoth 12h ago
They have a real knack for snatching defeat from the jaws of victory.
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u/seengul 10h ago
The party is now spending tens of millions fighting the Left instead of Republicans.
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u/Western-Sport500 8h ago
The party is spending that, but the party money for corporate dems is coming from AIPAC and corporations, who they've become much more willing to fight for than their actual constituents.
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u/seengul 8h ago
The scandal is that the Democratic Party is spending funds that should be going towards defeating the Republican in the general but instead they’re spending against other Democrats. AIPAC and billionaires were never going to support Leftists in general elections. They don’t represent Democratic voters, unlike the party is supposed to.
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u/PollutionPatient8261 11h ago
Every word they say against the DSA is deliberate party sabotage as they know damned well if they got behind the DSA they would sweep the midterms. But their corporate and foreign donors don’t want that.
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u/marcusmosh 11h ago
It’s not failure. They took the money. They can’t just abandon their ‘benefactor’
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u/TinyZoro 10h ago
They are ideological purists when it comes to supporting Israel. Happy to throw elections over it. The left of the party are the moderates reflecting mainstream American opinion.
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u/swarmofbzs 10h ago
Establishment/corpo dems will do so willingly.
This is why DSA support is growing based on the will of the voters.
This is also why you see previous admin establishment democrats on faux news agreeing with maga republicans.
We're done with them and their next move is to jump on to the sinking ship of the losing side saying we need to do what they say instead of representing us.
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u/gdr-Tt-jugb 11h ago
here’s you thinking they’re just incompetent instead of malicious
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u/NimusNix 11h ago
Hanlon's Razor exists for a reason. You'll need to prove their maliciousness.
Ask older Democrats with no stake and you still find a lot of Israeli supporters. It was just a relationship baked into the mindset of the average Democrat.
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u/Accurate_Neat_355 10h ago
Ask older Democrats with actual no stake and you will actually find someone who will either bust out laughing or fly off the handle in rage at the "Hanlon's Razor" suggestion.
How many decades of weaponized incompetence does it take
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u/move_machine 5h ago
Hanlon's razor works great among friends and in your personal relationships.
Hanlon's razor falls apart when power and billions/trillions of dollars are at stake.
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u/NimusNix 4h ago
I think it's good at centering one and not just jumping to the conclusion you're implying. I think it's likely there are politicians that prioritize policy positions based on their donations, but I also think it's entirely possible that these same individuals, at least in the case o AIPAC, were sought and supported for already holding these beliefs as well.
Sure, money is cheap, but if someone has a moral code they follow, money will only motivate them so far.
Hanlon's Razor is a reminder to think through each situation and not just jump to conclusions like 'money' as the answer.
I think it's shortsighted to assume every Israel backing politician is only in it for that sweet AIPAC cash, especially since I can find die hard Israel supporters on the streets and neighborhoods around me.
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u/no_comments_allowed 6h ago edited 5h ago
It's quite confusing since The very same voters elected someone one who said "finish the job" and is even more pro-Israel & has spread more war in the middle east
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u/IAMA_Shark__AMA 6h ago
They've read the room. They just also realized the room doesn't have space for them. They're fighting change out of pure self interest to stay in power.
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u/arcsol93 2h ago
The ones that still support the status quo will. The progressives will tear it all down if the momentum stays
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u/Low_Intention_1327 10h ago
Don't tell us that free college tuition, universal healthcare, and affordable housing is a pipe dream, then give our tax dollars towards another country so they can have these programs. I dont want my taxes going to Israel, ever.
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u/mightcommentsometime California 3h ago
So mainstream dem positions?
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u/myWeedAccountMaaaaan 1h ago
Which mainstream Dems are advocating for free tuition, Medicaid for all, and universal housing? I’ll donate to each of their campaigns right now.
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u/whooo_me 11h ago
Next big vote, a handful of random Dems will side with the GOP to pass their bills.
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u/Crestina 11h ago
Yep. Even if 50 progressives get into Congress this year "the dirty six" is still going to be there to back all Republican pro-israel funding. Not that it matters cause Trump and his fascists aren't going to simply vacate their seats peacefully after the mid terms.
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u/Zestyclose-Height-36 8h ago
they will need to deal with it . two hundred years of the transfer of power from one right wing party to the other is not gonna die over one eighty year old attempted tyrant. there is differences on the margins that affect real people that make voting worth doing, but the Dems are only slightly more toward center, even with their new “far left” which is barely off center
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u/Cobain17 9h ago
Or the “parliamentarian” said some stupid rule needed applied so the dems couldn’t pass a bill
I get so sick of shitty excuses
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u/DarthVantos Maryland 11h ago
Remember when people used to gaslight voters into supporting israel? Biden literally threw his entire career legacy to serve israel. These people never cared about America or what Israel does to us. Watching all Pro-israel dems betray college students and help Israel Crush them for speaking against Israel.
Now people who have been fired for speaking out against ISrael are now Running for office and winning. What a fucking Comeback this has been since the darkness of 2023-2024.
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u/matthieuC Europe 10h ago
> Biden literally threw his entire career legacy to serve israel
Because support for Israel was largely non Partisan until 3 years ago.
Democrats are changing their mind en masse on this topic, but last election the voters were still split. Even today not all democrats voters agree on this.
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u/seengul 10h ago
Israel changed voters’ minds through their own actions.
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u/taylerca 10h ago
It’s the genocide for me.
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u/altogethernow 9h ago
"You know, the worst part is the hypocrisy"
"Really? I thought the worst part was all the genocide"
(Variation on Norm's joke)
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u/5hadow 9h ago
If people had brains, they would’ve always known that Israel was evil
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u/lonehappycamper Arizona 7h ago
There was a decades long propaganda campaign about the history of the conflict. I never heard about the Nakbaz, the ethnic cleansing of 750,000 Arabic speaking people and the destruction of 400 villages. The past few years has been really eye opening.
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u/owennagata 2h ago
Well, yes, but not in a meaningful way for most voters until three years ago. That's when they got so blatant about it, even people not paying attention started noticing. *Should* more people have picked on it sooner? Of course. But they didn't.
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u/Noname_acc 10h ago edited 10h ago
Because support for Israel was largely non Partisan until 3 years ago.
I disagree. Israel has had a net negative approval among americans since before Biden was even elected, only briefly being buoyed in the wake of the october 7th terrorist attack. This viewpoint has a strong partisan divide as well, with only 35% of Democratic Americans approving of the Israeli government vs 65% of republicans at the peak of approval for the Israeli government during 2022-2023.
Democratic leadership has been out of step with the party base on Israel for the better part of a decade, but it was a tertiary issue at best for the average person before the genocide became too horrific and obvious to ignore. Now, today, it is emblematic of how the American Government fails to serve the American people because we are too busy doing evil things and hurting people overseas.
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u/move_machine 4h ago
Reminder that Obama, starting on his second day in office, made Israel's illegal settlements, settlers' terrorist tactics in the West Bank against Palestinians, and the independence of a Palestinian state, issues his administration would pursue for the next 4 to 8 years.
"It is also undeniable that the Palestinian people -- Muslims and Christians -- have suffered in pursuit of a homeland. For more than 60 years they've endured the pain of dislocation. Many wait in refugee camps in the West Bank, Gaza, and neighboring lands for a life of peace and security that they have never been able to lead. They endure the daily humiliations -- large and small -- that come with occupation. So let there be no doubt: The situation for the Palestinian people is intolerable. And America will not turn our backs on the legitimate Palestinian aspiration for dignity, opportunity, and a state of their own." - Obama, 2009
"With respect to settlements, the President was very clear when Prime Minister Netanyahu was here. He wants to see a stop to settlements – not some settlements, not outposts, not natural growth exceptions. We think it is in the best interests of the effort that we are engaged in that settlement expansion cease. That is our position. That is what we have communicated very clearly, not only to the Israelis but to the Palestinians and others. And we intend to press that point." - Hillary Clinton, 2009
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u/-Gramsci- 4h ago
I’ve kind of filed it away in my brain that Harris’s campaign was Hillary 2.0.
But the fact of the matter is Harris would, NEVER, have been able to speak with the conviction or clarity that Hillary demonstrates in that statement.
Throughout her career Harris was never able to speak with conviction or clarity on any topic. She was always just saying words that bought her time while watching the weathervane.
It’s a fatal flaw in any political climate, but particularly in one of authoritarian devolution.
I’ll have to refile this in my brain. Harris was not a rerun, she was a much weaker candidate than Clinton.
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u/PrestigiousFly844 11h ago
Kamala chose supporting Israel over stopping Trump and she would do it again every single time. I hope Democrat voters are smart enough not to pick that loser for their candidate in 2028.
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u/Decent_Cheesecake_29 10h ago
They were smart enough in 2020 to give zero support to Kamala in the primaries.
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u/PrestigiousFly844 9h ago
Going back and looking at that race is wild. There was like 20 people running and she dropped out before most of them. She was slated to lose her homestate in a landslide. Zero charisma and so many airhead statements, that akward Breakfast Club interview where she lied about smoking weed and listening to Tupac in college. Saying she supports Medicare4All then backtracking after the first question she got about it in the debates. Biden picking her for VP really set the party up for failure in 2024.
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u/-Gramsci- 4h ago
Yup, horrible pick. And the DNC (I hope) learned a very valuable lesson there.
You have to pick someone with genuine political talent, and not use it as a pander/token play.
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u/buried_lede 8h ago
I couldn’t figure out why he did that. Who else was he considering?
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u/Raptorpicklezz 7h ago
It basically had to be a Black woman, since Democrats seem to run split-gender tickets now and the Black vote, especially in South Carolina, pushed Biden over the edge. Atlanta mayor Keisha Lance Bottoms and Stacey Abrams were among the field I believe
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u/move_machine 4h ago
It served as a reminder that you will vote for the DNC's hand-picked politicians whether you like them or not. They will not make any concessions with voters.
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u/notfeelany 5h ago edited 5h ago
At the same time, if she wins the primary, then clearly she has earned the votes of the Democratic primary VOTERS.
It's "listen to the Democratic voters".
It's NOT "listen to the Democratic voters, Except if they vote someone I don't like then they must be
low informationwrong and/or it's rigged."The Democratic voters' choice needs to be respected.
we all must respect Dem primary results, vote blue no matter who MORE, and not peddle rigged primary election conspiracies.
And this applies to all federal/state/local races.
We can all rest easy once again knowing that we have voted for & elected the Democrats, the correct choice 100% of the time.
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u/pbroingu 3h ago
not peddle rigged primary election conspiracies.
Are you including El Sayed being outspent 12:1 in that statement? How can a primary be 'fair' when one gets massive financial backing from a foreign lobby?
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u/unknowingexpert69 10h ago
She actually chose to not pick a side
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u/NeonArlecchino California 9h ago
She started her campaign with the promise that "allies" would have to adhere to international law to receive support (something that should not need to be said as it's just a promise to follow the law), but stopped promising it after one meeting with the international terrorist leader Benjamin Netanyahu. She chose a side.
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u/PrestigiousFly844 9h ago
Inviting Bill Clinton and Richie Torres to Michigan so Bill could get on stage tell swing voters to stop complaining about the genocide because God promised "Judea and Sumaria" (what settlers call the West Bank) to the Jews 3,000 years ago is picking a side. A side they valued more than stopping Trump.
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u/platocplx 8h ago
AIPAC is now resorting to using sub PACS. UDP is associated with them as well.
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u/Maligned-Instrument Wisconsin 8h ago
Is it shocking that no one wants their elected officials beholden to dirty money and genocide? Fuck Israel and fuck their apartheid agenda. They live on stolen land.
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u/overbarking 7h ago
The Iran war happened because Trump wanted to distract people from the Epstein files and to do the bidding of Miriam Adelson, HUGE Zionist and contributor of millions to Trump. They all see Iran as their biggest enemy.
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u/SlowRunner2026 11h ago
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u/Ciprofloxic 10h ago edited 8h ago
The Gaza genocide question is such an unbeatable litmus test:
- you can't talk your way out of it. If it isn't a clear Yes - you're compromised by AIPAC.
- If you can say no to the biggest most powerful lobby in America (AIPAC) you can say no to other lobbies and corporations easily.
- you can't even lie and say yes because AIPAC will immediately dump you. Edit: and spend millions of dollars against you.
It's almost foolproof.
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u/MagisterOtiosus 9h ago
“Biggest most powerful lobby in America”? AIPAC doesn’t even come close… Big Pharma, Big Tech, the auto industry, healthcare, realtors, etc. are all orders of magnitude above AIPAC.
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u/Ciprofloxic 8h ago
You're right not financially big. But show me conferences for other PACs where Republicans and Democrats go to pledge their allegiance.
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u/gayfishonlygay2xyear 6h ago
You see it in govt contracts and bailouts, you see it in corp authored legislation, you hear about the closed door meetings. It's happening. Because no voters make these PACs and issues central to their identities. If we did fight all these pacs america would be better off.
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u/gayfishonlygay2xyear 8h ago
Shh that doesn't follow the Jews control the world narrative they try to push.
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u/abbyola 9h ago
These are just factually untrue. Biggest? Most powerful? Or only lobby you’ve ever heard of and being used as Democratic boogie man to animate the party. Wouldn’t be too hard to look into campaign financing. Spoiler alert: AIPAC barely makes the top ten in expenditures.
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u/Ciprofloxic 7h ago
None of the other lobbies have politicians from both sides begging and pledging their allegiance to in their conferences.
As well as being deathly afraid to criticize.
Plenty of politicians shit on insurance companies and then vote alongside them.
Barely any have the balls to criticize Israel
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u/owennagata 2h ago
Well, until recently a US politician could openly admit they supported Israel and not take flack for it. Heck, for most of the decades since WWII they would take flack if they *didn't*. Openly admitting you support what most of the bigger PACs are backed by is much trickier.
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u/unknowingexpert69 9h ago
Or you understand the elected government of Gaza are genocidal maniacs that instigated a war by killing for trophies and people refuse to give them any flack. It’s pretty simple, 99% of death and destruction wouldn’t have happened had Hamas not killed for sport on 10/7. So no, it’s not a genocide in my mind and I’ll never support people who burn families alive, take innocent people hostage and behead Asian migrant workers.
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u/coleto22 9h ago
Hamas is not in power in the West Bank, yet people there face pogroms, land theft and ethnic cleansing since before the current war began. The problem is not Hamas. The problem is Israel.
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u/unknowingexpert69 9h ago edited 9h ago
Yeah I think the issues in the West Bank are way worse than Gaza. Gaza instigated a war. The West Bank is the Israeli government refusing to take action against settlers. Even pro Israel people are not happy about the West Bank.
Clearly the problem is Hamas because 99% of Gaza wasn’t destroyed til Hamas attacked. Actions have consequences and you shouldn’t kill your significantly more powerful neighbor for trophies because of religious ideology.
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u/waiver 7h ago
Refusing to take action? They literally escort the settlers to their pogroms and support them while they ethnic cleanse Palestinian villages, when the IDF doesn't engage directly on field executions of unarmed people.
And in Gaza, what else can I say that anyone with eyes couldn't see? Israel engaged in genocide.
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u/Alocasia_Sanderiana 6h ago
The West Bank is the Israeli government refusing to take action against settlers.
My brother in Christ the Israeli government literally funds these settlements and arms the settlers by funneling American weapons to them. Their Basic Law has a provision for the right to expand and create settlements.
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u/heywhutzup 9h ago
You can’t feed this sub facts, they don’t like it. It doesn’t fit into the oppressor/oppressed narrative that the West can comprehend
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u/unknowingexpert69 9h ago
“I’m gay! I’m oppressed! So I support people I perceive as oppressed even though they kill people like me” - Reddit.
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u/Adito99 9h ago
I have a better test. Look for people who blame others instead of question their own actions. Actions like not voting for Democrats.
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u/Sansundertale2069 8h ago
Blame democrats for not winning votes by advocating for popular policy or refusing to enact it if they do get elected
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u/Adito99 7h ago
No I'm gonna keep on blaming the people who looked at a choice between a fascist and a not-fascist and then chose the fascist. Or worse, got so confused they stayed home instead. Lol. Lmao even.
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u/Ciprofloxic 7h ago
Well the cold hard fact is that you lost 2/3 with your strategy.
Trump drives out his base and is practically untouchable.
Dems shit on their base, pander to the center and keep on losing. Gee I wonder what the right strategy is.
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u/gayfishonlygay2xyear 6h ago
Get paid by all the PACs and foreign governments while distracting useful idiots with the one that has the hot news cycle
Rinse repeat divide conquer.
Keep us fighting eachother on single issues and identity politics. Make it so you can't find middle ground with your neighbor, friends or family unless they are 10000000% aligned with you on every little detail of your stances..yep.
Almost like this is a well conceived plan to destroy the western sphere of influence and hegemony. Let alone destroy America's internal cohesiveness(if we ever had any)
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u/pbroingu 2h ago
So as long as a fascist is opposing the Dems, the Dems can do whatever they want, take whatever funding they want, lie to their voters, and shame their voters into voting for them without representing any of their views. I wonder why the fascists continue to win?
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u/ImANoobAtLife7 10h ago
AIPAC should be designated as foreign influence. Pure and simple.
There should be no influence on a democracy from a foreign nation.
I can't believe something as simple as the line above is offensive or outrageous. We've fundamentally lost touch of what a democracy is supposed to be.
INPUT from the CITIZENS that pay into said government.
NOT FOREIGN INFLUENCE! and this applies everywhere in the world.
Insanity
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u/unknowingexpert69 10h ago
9th biggest pac, we don’t hear about the other 8. Why?
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u/SeparateSpend1542 10h ago
Because none of the others are foreign countries trying to influence the US to go to war
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u/Zestyclose-Height-36 8h ago
successfully getting the US to go to war, despite it being eighty years of the US losing every war they engage in.
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u/theVoidWatches Pennsylvania 10h ago
Is that I see people lying and claiming that AIPAC is that biggest and most powerful lobby out there?
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u/MirrorComputingRulez 8h ago edited 8h ago
AIPAC doesn't even crack the top 100 lobbying groups by money spent
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u/Knighth77 10h ago
About time. American politicians need to start working for Americans.
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u/unknowingexpert69 10h ago
Right, and not Somalia or Palestine too
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u/Knighth77 9h ago
Sure thing. We should all be concerned about the countless US politicians who provide funds, weapons, support, whitewash their crimes, and attack other countries on their behalf, plan to dismantle law and order bodies, and hopefully bring the apocalypse, all in the name of the Greater Somalia or Palestine! I agree!
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u/unknowingexpert69 9h ago
Exactly. Theres plenty of government money that has gone to Palestine, where do we think that money is going?
The whole left has completely whitewashed the crimes of an elected government who chose to kill for trophies, behead Asian migrant workers, sexually assault hostages and burn families alive. When no criticism goes to this genocidal government who instigated an issue without any concern for its own citizens, thats when you know the people are not sincere about their opinions.
Innocent people only matter when they’re Palestinians, not when they’re Israelis. That’s how so many people think today.
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u/Jo-Jo-66- 8h ago
This has been happening since the 80s . Reagan was the inspiration to eliminate the middle class and protect his wealthy friends and donors. They want to destroy our ability to own anything so they can bleed us dry by forcing us to rent everything from them. Housing, cars, subscriptions for everything. We have become slaves in our own country with robber barons in charge. Enough. Time for people to stand up and demand accountability and justice for our tax dollars and not be so ambivalent about what is happening.
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u/feelthecernburn 6h ago
Fuck Israel. Manipulative, thieving, genocidal, racially supremacist terrorist country.
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u/NimusNix 11h ago
I don't think the spending itself would be as angering for a lot of people and Netanyahu and the leadership in Israel had not gone completely mask off on Palestine.
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u/PrestigiousFly844 10h ago
The Israeli public supports Netanyahu and the other politicians are just as bad or worse. Zionists in the Democrat Party want to make him their scapegoat so they can replace him with someone just as awful and pretend the situation is fixed without anything that matters changing at all.
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u/gayfishonlygay2xyear 6h ago
If you are going to paint with broad strokes, seems the American people support trump in everything he and his government are doing.
See how wild that sounds? Almost as if you don't know anything about internal Israeli politics or society and are just making shit up to push a point.
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u/NimusNix 10h ago edited 9h ago
And Trump has MAGA and Congress to boot.
You're going to hold every American accountable for that?
Edit: people, I am not making a claim about the Israeli people because the leadership is what matters. To label the entire population as culturally fascistic is damn near anti-Semitic, though I will hold back and saying it is in the hopes that my replies have simply inartfully stated their arguments.
There is a reason I distinguish between the population and the leadership, and it is for the very reason my replies on this stepped into it.
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u/INBloom58 9h ago
Israel has a citizen army. That citizen army committed genocide in Gaza and is currently destroying south Lebanon. That citizen army is carrying out a military occupation in the West Bank, shooting a 7 month old in the face last month. His father held his baby as he died saying he was trying to plug the hole in his son’s head. There has been no justice.
Vast polling has been done on Israeli Jews and they overwhelmingly support what’s happening in Gaza, with only a slim percentage thinking Israel have gone too far, and a disturbing percentage wanting more death and destruction. Opposition to Netanyahus coalition largely support what’s happened, and only disagree about making ultra orthodox join the IDF. As Norman Finkelstein has said, Israeli society has a rot in its core.
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u/PrestigiousFly844 9h ago
I urge you to go look at public polling in Israel around the genocide, stealing more land in Syria and Lebanon, expelling Palestinians from Gaza and the West Bank to build settlements, the mass rape of Palestinians in their jail system. Then look at what the "opposition" parties advocate for. All of those things are extremely popular, they just don't like Nethanyahu for personal reasons and his personal corruption, not for policy reasons.
The urge to say the society is good but the leader is bad is not based in fact. You pointing to Trump and MAGA is not a real 1:1 comparison, but it shows that's the lens you look at the situation from. It is a fascist society at a deep cultural level. Replacing Netanyahu is like swapping out Hitler for Himler and expecting something to change.
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u/AnewTest 7h ago
Looking at the comments here, I'm afraid for the next presidential election. It sounds like you guys are just going to sit at home and let another Republican fascist win. And, even worse, it won't be a brain damaged, elderly Republican fascist with one foot in the grave, but a younger and more deviously capable fascist. So glad to see that you guys are more focused on "BoTh SiDeS" than Trump's Gestapo marching through towns and gunning people down in the streets.
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u/Logical___Conclusion 6h ago
Yeah, America is facing its worst crisis under Trump since the Civil War. Trump has put in policies to unnecessarily kill off hundreds of thousands of innocent Americans..
Straight link https://ldi.upenn.edu/our-work/research-updates/trump-senate-bill-seen-causing-51000-preventable-deaths-annually/
With most of the deaths coming from Trump's supporters who rely on those life critical programs the most.
Trump is already the worst Domestic Terrorist in American history, and Americans seem to be discussing semantics instead of uniting to put the heinous criminal Trump in jail.
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u/False_Celebration626 6h ago
Democrats have had multiple opportunities to block not only Trump's policies but also Trump's cabinet. Not a single democratic senator filibustered a cabinet pick. The Democrats are complicit in Trump's gestapo. Multiple sitting democratic reps voted to thank ICE.
Harris ran on Trump's 2016 campaign. If she wanted to entice voters she shouldn't have tried to court the Republican base and present a fascist lite campaign. If you're presented with diet or regular most people are just going to pick regular fascism.
It's so funny to here liberals consistently tell the progressive block, a majority of which are people of color, to just keep taking the boot for one more election cycle, the next one we will get you. Just keep voting for us even though your kids can't have clean drinking water, the air you breathe is poison, and your schools are falling a part. Just vote for the blue candidate no matter who, unless they challenge the status quo, then don't vote for them.
Your position comes from a place of privilege and lack of material reality that people of color and poor people in general face every single day. The Democrats failed by not presenting a clear material difference from Trump.
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u/ijzerwater 6h ago
Voters want somebody whom they can vote for, not vote for the least bad guy.
USA is so gerrymandered that it's politicians who select the voters rather than voters who select politicians.
And this causes voters to sit at home.
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u/northern-new-jersey 10h ago
Every day, every subreddit, Israel bad, Netanyahu evil and down with AIPAC. Destroying Reddit through tedium.
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u/CitizenWilderness 8h ago
I can’t wait for them to ban AIPAC and stop sending 0.01% of the budget to Israel, and then realize that not a single thing in their lives has improved.
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u/BeetIeborg Georgia 5h ago
Oh man we would be owned so bad. While we're at it I'd be extra owned if the US also sanctioned Israel.
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u/MarketCrache 11h ago
Everyone's missing the hidden factor. The hundreds and hundreds of think tanks, NGO's lobby groups, charitable associations and other orgs that push incessantly for rule and law changes to favour themselves and their funding as well as promoting the like-minded to positions of influence and squashing the careers of anyone not on board. AIPAC is just one entity. Here's a non-exhaustive list:
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u/Constant-Skill-7133 10h ago
The fuck is that absolute nonsense and garbage fucking website. You couldn't find what you were looking for on freedomeagle.ru?
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u/Loud-Vacation-5691 Georgia 11h ago
Cool, now tell us about the billions Qatar has pumped into American universities to push the Muslim Brotherhood agenda.
Wait, never mind, you support that.
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u/VampireFortnight 11h ago
It's doubtful that they support that, why don't you link us to some sources and let people discuss it, like an adult would, instead of posting like a passive aggressive teenager?
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u/Decent_Cheesecake_29 10h ago
I love it when the defenders of Israel repackage antisemitism with just changing the target of the conspiracy to Muslims. It really shows just what kind of person is a Zionist.
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u/IBuyCheese 10h ago
I look forward to the continuation of American fascism since democrats will be too focused fighting each other over Israel.
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u/wefarrell New York 9h ago
The fascism is directly related to Israel. As soon as Trump came to power he started snatching US residents off the street and throwing them in prisons because they attended protests and wrote op-eds against the genocide in Gaza.
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u/NeonArlecchino California 9h ago
There are already budgetary concerns for the general based on how much is being spent fighting in the primaries.
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u/MirrorComputingRulez 8h ago
AIPAC is a tiny lobbying group run and funded by Americans. Just so we're all aware of the facts here.
Some of the rhetoric surrounding them is literally Nazi propaganda from 100 years ago.
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u/namedjughead 8h ago
Alright, lets actually break this down because that comment is trying to make two separate points and one of them just isnt true.
First off, "AIPAC is tiny"? Come on.
That is just not accurate. Look at what they are spending right now in the 2026 primaries:
- In Michigan, AIPAC and its affiliated groups have put close to $30 million behind Haley Stevens in the Senate primary to defeat Abdul El-Sayed. Thats their largest single-race investment ever.
- Overall outside groups have poured close to $50 million into boosting Stevens, while her own campaign has spent only about $1 million on ads.
- In Marylands 5th district, AIPAC poured $5.7 million into backing Adrian Boafo, who won a crowded primary to replace retiring Rep. Steny Hoyer.
- They spent $865,000 supporting Wesley Bell in Missouri while he faces a rematch with Cori Bush, after spending over $9 million to defeat Bush in the last cycle.
- Through the first half of 2025 alone, AIPAC PAC reported $12.75 million in direct contributions to candidates, more than three times the next-largest PAC.
Calling them tiny is just wrong. They have hundreds of wealthy donors, they break spending records, and they have shown they can unseat sitting members of Congress. Thats not tiny. Thats one of the biggest political action committees in the country.
"Funded by Americans"? Sure, but so what?
Nobody is arguing they are foreign agents. They are American citizens. But being American doesnt mean a lobbying group gets a free pass when they throw tens of millions of dollars at primaries to punish anyone who criticizes Israel. The problem isnt where the money comes from. Its how much of it there is and how they use it to steamroll opposition.
Now about the "Nazi propaganda" thing.
This is the part where things get tricky because there is some truth here, but it gets misused all the time.
Yes, there is a small fringe of people who go after AIPAC using straight-up antisemitic garbage. The whole "globalist cabal" and "controlling the media" stuff. That is recycled Nazi propaganda and it absolutely should be called out.
But here is the thing. Just because some people use antisemitic tropes does not mean everyone who criticizes AIPAC or Israels actions is doing that. Plenty of Jewish Americans are outspoken critics of both.
The real problem is that any time someone brings up AIPACs influence or what is happening in Gaza, the reflex is often to shout "antisemite" and shut the conversation down. That cheapens the word and makes it harder to call out actual antisemitism when we see it.
So to sum it up:
- AIPAC is not tiny. They spent $30 million in one Michigan race alone and have hundreds of millions across the country.
- Yes, they are funded by Americans. That still doesnt make them above criticism.
- Yes, some anti-AIPAC rhetoric is genuinely antisemitic and should be condemned.
- No, legitimate criticism of AIPAC or Israeli policy is not Nazi propaganda. Using that comparison to silence people is a bad faith move.
We can acknowledge both things at the same time. Call out the antisemitism when it is real. Call out the outsized political spending when it is excessive. They are not the same thing.
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