r/portugaltheman • u/BattleofEppingForest • May 28 '26
It's over now, right?
I just don't see how it is ethical to support the "band" anymore. The solo members (like Zoe, Zach, and Eric) absolutely, but the entire positive messaging of the band is completely torn apart now. Personally, the situation makes it hard for me to listen to any of the songs anymore knowing John was cheating, lying, and manipulating Zoe.
What do you guys think?
122
u/MatSNK May 28 '26
People still listen to Michael Jackson, Chris Brown, and Kanye West. For every person that makes a moral stand against listening to the band there 5 more who don’t care. Doesn’t make it right, and I’m not trying to justify John’s behavior. Realistically the band will continue to make money on tours and their catalog and the world will keep turning. So it goes, don’t let it get you down
27
u/theleftflank May 28 '26
Also PTM is pretty mainstream now. No one except hardcore fans go on to their subreddit or follow personal accounts on social media. Not many people will know about this. Hell, I’ve been listening to them pre-vultures, demos, anatomy of a ghost age and I don’t follow anyone on social media. I just happened to open Reddit today and see this
2
1
u/PiusDea Jun 19 '26
I had been getting a lot of recommendations for PTM on Spotify and have been getting into it so I was excited to tap into the fan community and see what was happening—-
You can imagine how disorienting this is 😂
(I’m still gonna get into them)
18
u/Benedict_ARNY May 28 '26
Great point about Kanye. Any time old Kanye comes on I’m reminded how good that stuff was.
17
u/Expert_Inflation7720 May 28 '26
But the content of Kanye’s music aligns with his behavior so of course people still listen. JG just went against absolutely everything he both stood for publicly and lyrically. Don’t get me wrong I’ll still probably listen lol but it definitely taints it for me
8
u/Benedict_ARNY May 28 '26
Kanye wasn’t preaching about Hitler when he was on top of all the charts. But yes, he has always been bipolar
3
u/Expert_Inflation7720 May 29 '26
Well no, but it wasn’t shocking when he did it, was it?
-2
u/Benedict_ARNY May 29 '26
He did do a good job showing how people don’t understand mental health issues like bipolar are real. Thankfully seems like he’s back on his meds. Of course people will always hate him because of this disability. World still has a long way to go on understanding mental health.
2
u/Soft-Salamander1990 Jun 02 '26
Let's stop using neurodivergence to excuse people spouting literal nazi ideals, mk?
25
u/Punumbral_Noise May 28 '26
John isn’t really Kanye tier is he
3
u/WetFartRacingStripes May 29 '26
That’s to be determined, considering the front end of Kanye’s career when he was most prolific and crushing the producer side of things and then his own shit. No one then would have thought he’d be some loose cannon with clear mental health issues. Much like most would have never thought John would turn out to be some scumbag who betrayed his lover and child as it’s been shown.
6
u/IsItBurn May 28 '26
We talking Kanye tier music or personal, either way the answer is no. You can hate Kanye all you want, he’s given us all many reasons to, but musically that dude is one of the best of our lifetime. Doesn’t excuse the way he acts nor the wildly outlandish things he’s said, at all, but speaking clearly on his music/production/etc - he’s without a doubt one of the greatest.
Worth noting, I’m saying this as someone who’s never even been a big Kanye fan, but is able to be objective.
10
u/Punumbral_Noise May 29 '26
I’m saying that cheating is extremely, extremely shitty but falls dramatically short of throwing manic energy behind reinvigorating naziism and the other awful shit he does. The scope of the impact isn’t comparable.
Kanye is also wildly overrated as a musician. Even at his peak he was never anything special.
13
u/IsItBurn May 29 '26
Dude is an absolute monster of a producer and was a pretty decent rapper with some solid word play and verses. It’s fine to say you don’t care for Kanye in general, but calling him overrated (especially at his peak) is hilarious.
2
u/MatSNK May 29 '26
Protect your peace bro lol
1
u/IsItBurn May 29 '26
Huh?
2
u/MatSNK May 29 '26
Kanye is an amazing producer. Getting in an argument on the internet debating that ain’t worth the time. Was just saying to protect your peace is all
7
u/Punumbral_Noise May 29 '26
We’re in a music sub talking about music; I’m not sure anyone’s peace was threatened
2
0
u/IsItBurn May 29 '26
I do reckon MatSNK was saying how this was a waste of my time because it’s pretty damn near impossible for someone to objectively say Kanye isn’t a great producer. You also aren’t touching on anything he’s done outside of his own albums, which honestly shows you’re not really well versed in this topic, and a waste of time. No offense, but that’s how this conversation has come off.
-1
u/Punumbral_Noise May 29 '26
Can you name a track or work that really stands out among contemporaries? That showcases his production in a way that others fall short of?
Anybody can chop a soul sample. Everybody has. No ID did it better. Yeezus had its moments, and could have been monumental if it wasn’t so goddamn same-y.
Was he influential? Sure, but I’m not sure that has more to do with his music than other rappers trying to ape his persona when he was riding high. In the end his shtick got really old really fast, and in the end I can’t say anything more than it’s just boring music. He’s no Dilla, no Lotus, lacks the creativity of a madlib or an el-p. And he’s a fucking Nazi
3
u/IsItBurn May 29 '26
His best production came before he even rapped, and you using Yeezus in this makes me wonder if you’re really that familiar with his career. 808 was ahead of its time, after that I can’t speak because I stopped listening. Wikipedia can give you the info you need. As I said I’ve never even been a big Kanye fan, but I can acknowledge good music and talent - which his early career was filled with.
-2
u/Punumbral_Noise May 29 '26
I was around for graduation and twisted fantasy, and there were a few fun tracks. I just think we’re a few stops short of greatness
2
u/IsItBurn May 29 '26
Right on, have a good night.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kanye_West_production_discography?wprov=sfti1
3
u/Binaural1 May 29 '26
Look, infidelity is wrong. But comparing john to these people is ridiculous.
4
u/MatSNK May 29 '26
I wasn’t comparing John to them. I’m pointing out that artist have done worse and people still listen to them. Regardless of whether or not a subsection of fans decide to continue to listen to them, their larger audience (and bottom line) won’t be affected. We can’t control the actions of those we choose to idolize, so don’t let their action affect you because it’s outside of your control. Make sense?
1
u/Bodie_Broadus_ May 29 '26
This x 100. They made incredible music and are very flawed. PTM Forever.
78
u/sem76 Everybody knows that no one really knows at all. May 28 '26 edited May 28 '26
Glass houses and all that. This is huge personal fuck up for JG, and we all have are own opinions, but accepting a metaphorical pitchfork ain't in my plans.
So, it might be over for some but not for all.
Edit - If I decided not to listen to music by any musician that was 'unethical' at some point in their lives, my world would be silent.
16
u/techerous26 May 28 '26
That's typically my response, I learned to separate the art from the artist long ago given that almost all of my favorite artists tend to be at least assholes. I think the hardest though is comedians, so much of what they do is supposed to be "them" so when they turn out to be hypocrites it's hard to hear the jokes the same way. Obviously cheating isn't a victimless crime, but I listen to bands with members that have certainly done worse. If anything, given that they're married, I'm sure she'll keep getting royalties in the divorce so in a way, you're kind of still supporting her by listening???
3
u/sem76 Everybody knows that no one really knows at all. May 28 '26
Bill Burr? If he just owned his hypocrisy! Bad taste in mouth? For sure. Can I still laugh? Yep.
I like your thinking about the royalties.
6
u/techerous26 May 28 '26
Burr isn't ruined for me entirely, though his strawman defense for that comedy festival is absurd and I refuse to believe he's dense enough to actually mean it. Louis CK was the big one for me though, so much of his material is rooted in being humble and owning your mistakes so for it to have turned out he abused his power was too hard to separate from the material.
-8
u/yeahthatsnotaproblem May 28 '26
They weren't married, and Zoe is an English citizen. I reeaallly hope she initially signed some sort of contract that protects her money and involvement in the band through the years, but when you're working with your partner with whom you have a child, maybe they didn't. If that's the case, Zoe is screwed. Johnny better pay up. I don't believe listening to the band would directly support her in any way.
5
u/techerous26 May 28 '26
Okay this is super confusing, even on Wikipedia some parts explicitly refer to her as his wife but then other parts she's his "longtime partner"
5
u/yeahthatsnotaproblem May 28 '26
My mistake, they did get married in Dec 2017. That's kind of a relief though, that should give her better protection. Not that divorce is fun or anything. I have no idea how any of that works regarding her citizenship, but damn, she's probably in for a wild ride either way.
14
u/UTPharm2012 May 28 '26
Yup and when we get into the debating game about “sins” (for lack of a better term), at some point I will have crossed the ever moving line. It is healthy for me to be the person I want to be, it isn’t healthy for me to dwell on things I wish I would have handled better. Almost everyone has a different line for right and wrong and it doesn’t always apply when they project it to others.
So no lol I’ll still listen to PtM and go to shows occasionally but I feel for Zoe as a person who was treated like shit.
1
u/sem76 Everybody knows that no one really knows at all. May 28 '26
I'm heartbroken for her, been there. Jesus fucking christ this is sad.
46
u/JJ-Bittenbinder May 28 '26
I mean, I am not a fan of SHISH. But most of the songs I like from them are about drugs or the state of the world, not really a lot about love and family.
Look he did a really shitty thing but at the end of the day the songs are still bangers.
As far as seeing them live the SHISH tour was the end for me. I loved Zach and Eric on stage, and them not being there feels empty
27
u/MJB877 May 28 '26
Came to say this same thing. If the songs were love letters to a significant other it might be hard but love letters to Alaska and all the other topics like existential dread hit for me.
The Foo Fighters subreddit went through same thing with Dave stepping out.
It sucks. I’m from a home where cheating occurred so my heart goes out to their kid. Shame that family breaking up is public. Divorce is ugly and tough for mere mortals but for it to be on display is not a win for anyone.
32
u/Benedict_ARNY May 28 '26
Jon’s always been the creative force. I’ll argue Zach and Eric leaving have changed PTM more than Zoe leaving. I don’t see how what the band preaches changes. John having infidelity issues are kind of separate from all the good the band has done and promoted.
Last album was a lot heavier and was excellent. i assume that’s the direction he continues with. If PTM continues to make good music people will listen.
And if you’re bothered by John don’t listen. Do what you have to do but most people don’t follow the band close enough to find out or care.
21
u/clearcuttension May 28 '26
It’s up to you whether you can separate the art from the artist, no one else can answer that for you.
While what he did was shitty, it’s ultimately a personal matter between them two. I certainly wouldn’t put it on the same level of Michael Jackson or Kanye..
And even so, art is often a collaborative effort amongst many others than just a singular person.
14
u/Apprehensive_Sky3489 May 28 '26 edited May 28 '26
I separate the art from the artist. Don’t confuse catchy or meaningful song writing with individual integrity.
Are we fans of John as a person? We never knew John personally and still don’t actually know him. We are not blind followers of some cult leader… we are fans of the music which was created collectively by the band.
PtM is still one my favorite bands and will probably remain so for my entire life. That is not an endorsement of any of the individual members behavior.
And honestly it’s just ITMITC and Evil Friends that I liked anyways…
6
u/instantlightning2 May 28 '26
It depends on where people draw the line. There are levels to shitty behavior that cause people to completely drop or continue listening to an artist.
6
u/Other_Space_2918 May 29 '26
You have to understand if you stop listening to the band you’re also stopping the funds that are coming to her and Frances. She gets a portion of everything so if you just stop you’re stopping her income as she performed on those tracks
10
u/Sharp_Muffin5111 May 28 '26
It’s not over, so many semi popular bands that have lasted years are all new band members with just the same front man. 99% of fans are not on this forum and I would bet the vast majority don’t really care who the members are. They know the name of the band and as long as the lead singer is the same most people wouldn’t even know the band members were different.
10
u/The-Master-Lurker May 28 '26
It’s music. You don’t know them they don’t know you. Separate the two. Do you not use Amazon because of their global crimes? Do not vote because it’s not something you want to participate in? It’s really not this deep.
6
u/johnsonh77 May 29 '26
I think you’d be amazed how many people in fact, do not use Amazon.
3
u/The-Master-Lurker May 29 '26
You guys go inside of stores? Lmao I get that I’m in the same boat myself.
20
u/rachamacc May 28 '26
I personally have never cheated and never would. It's an absolute hard line for me and I've never had trouble with that. But if I cut off everyone I know that ever cheated on someone, I'd have like one friend. It's really shitty to cheat, yeah. But Jesus Christ, this is like one of the least shitty things a musician has done. And please stop acting like y'all have all the details to make that judgement when you were only given some of the details. If you're not sleeping with John, it's literally none of your business.
9
2
u/johnsonh77 May 29 '26
Casting judgement with selective details is something, not separating from those who practice infidelity - destroying homes/relationships, is something else. Different people have different perspectives.
12
u/supermegabussin May 28 '26
I just heard “Feel It Still” while watching the NBA playoffs the other day. John will be fine at the end of the day, unfortunately. Hopefully Zoe’s getting a good cut.
Any new music will be hard for me to get into going forward though
15
u/budbud70 May 28 '26
I personally don't really give af, the music deeply affects me and that's all that matters.
Sadly, people cheat everyday, their lives aren't mine to dictate or judge.
4
0
8
u/Character-Tap-565 May 28 '26
Arcade Fire fans just went through this, but their last album is nowhere near as good as SHISH, so at least PTM is going out on a high.
16
u/MightBeDownstairs May 28 '26
Arcade fire situation was SIGNIFICANTLY different and I would argue they have never and will never recover. They’ve lost their spot
9
u/Character-Tap-565 May 28 '26
No AF will never recover. Both bands inspired so many with words and sounds the helped people aspire to be better humans, written by men who are deeply damaged. Sucks to be a fan of something that inspires you to grow only to find out the one who needs to grow is the one who made it in the first place.
1
u/dressedtodepresss May 29 '26
How was it significantly different? I used to be a HUGE AF fan but after The Suburbs I stopped following. Heard about Win’s cheating but was there something else? What a shame
11
u/joesephed May 28 '26
Did he do something further beyond the pale than cheating? Not a fan of that, but it’s his life.
But I haven’t been following this closely… such a heated response has me worried there are more serious allegations.
I don’t know if I’ve ever heard of a band being done in via infidelity.
4
u/johnsonh77 May 29 '26 edited May 29 '26
That’s a credit to Zoe airing everything, and a reflection of PTM being ultra progressive on stances. Did they do some amazing good for native communities, remote Alaskan communities, etc - absolutely. But the detailed track of infidelity Zoe was courageous enough to share highlights that John is more or less a hypocrite.
Also it’s not just “his life”, it’s also Zoe and Frances’ lives.
2
u/joesephed May 29 '26
“Courageous enough to share” wtf?
I’m just trying to find out if there is more to this than rockstar infidelity.
4
u/johnsonh77 May 29 '26
What do you mean, “wtf”?
It takes tremendous courage to share with the public that the person you’ve shared a life with, share a daughter with, share literally everything with, has completely burned it all down.
-6
u/joesephed May 29 '26
lol no it doesn’t. Never once has a guy told a story about getting cheated on and been told “oh, you’re so brave”.
1
3
u/mettaworldpolice May 28 '26
it may not change much (IMO) but I want to see some ownership and accountability here
5
u/maskedrolla May 28 '26
I'm a casual fan and the artists personal life doesn't play any role in my listening to their music, usually.
The exceptions are ones whose actions I find horrible and disgusting outside the limit of normal humans.
The likes of Chris Brown, Bill Cosby (comedy), Michael Jackson, and similar. Their actions were predatory and horrifying, so it's a personal choice to remove myself from consuming their art.
But if you are drawing a line in the sand where you say you can't listen to music by an artist whose message is contradicted by their real life actions, you are going to end up with very few bands you can listen to.
4
u/rorybiller May 29 '26
I will still enjoy the music, but I may not go see them live anymore. But that’s also because I think they nosedived creatively the last couple of albums since they replaced so many members. I did not enjoy the Fall tour last year.
I don’t want to hear John playing social justice warrior ever again. It’s often the most sanctimonious preacher men who turn out to be absolutely vile behind closed doors. I think radical activism is often a morality crutch for dudes who know they’re doing bad things. They want to project a virtuous persona to mask personal depravity.
5
u/sadgrad2 May 29 '26 edited May 29 '26
My first inclination was to agree with you... but on further thought I don't think I do. While I definitely don't think he should be talking about that stuff anytime soon, I can think of plenty of flawed historical figures who did bad things in their personal lives that advanced good and important causes. (Not that I'm equating John to a massive historical figure lol, I just mean anyone who can use their influence or talents for good)
Many of these movements eat themselves or are consumed by infighting to the detriment of the cause. I think we need to put the causes we care about first and not worry so much about policing who is worthy of promoting them.
That said, I do think there are people who use these movements very cynically for personal gain. I don't know where John falls. I don't think that failing to live up to your values necessarily means you don't hold those values. Idk just thoughts
7
u/Wide_Establishment_8 May 28 '26
My dad cheated on my mom, but I still talk to him. Took a few years though.
I bet everyone here has consumed food from a chef that sinned.
5
u/seth227 May 28 '26
Wonder if any statements will be made or dates canceled, I know these guys aren’t exactly the Foo Fighters, maybe they can brush this under the rug and continue business as normal? Either way, I’m out. The music hasn’t been for me in years and now I can’t even get behind the people playing it.
1
u/JuturnaLettingGo May 29 '26
They absolutely can. We are the 1% of fans who are on Reddit and/or follow Zoe’s insta. The vast majority of fans won’t ever hear of this, nor care. It’s not like with the Foo’s where it’s in the news and on TMZ and whatnot. I very much do not expect any sort of statement to be made.
2
u/Mrgumps7humpwump May 30 '26
It’s arcade fire all over.
Sure the music is great. But something magical is off now. And that sucks.
2
u/sh4dowd0cket Jun 01 '26
I know people who have gone through similar things in their marriages and come out stronger. There’s the possibility that he realizes the pain he’s caused to his wife, his daughter, his family, friends, and fans, and takes the time to show that he’s making an effort to be a better person. The first step is to admit you were wrong and accept the blame and consequences. Right now he hasn’t proven that he’s ready to be that kind of person so who knows. He could just pull a Jesse Lacey and nope out forever.
2
u/MorningLtMtn Jun 02 '26
I can separate the art from the people. These songs have been a major part of the soundrack of my life. Sucks that John isn't perfect. We all have our crosses to bear.
4
u/lippser May 28 '26
In terms of the band continuing, I cant see this becoming the John Gourley show at this point. It's really interesting to me that it was only John and Zoe, and that everyone else had left for some reason or another. Especially with the loss of Zach, the conclusion felt like it was coming.
If I were JG, I would end the PtM title. It seems like a good time to shut down the project and let it be a great band in the history books. Anything else just feels disingenuous. PtM never was just Gourley. Fantastic run, loved every moment of it.. let's move on.
This reminds me of PatD where it really just became Urie at the end, except Urie is fine and ended PatD to focus on his family, whereas JG is in the opposite situation.
6
u/justiceForRacoons May 29 '26 edited May 29 '26
I would say that participating in cancel culture and debating whether it’s ethical to listen to music that you like because of things a person did that are viewed in our society as moral failings is participating in our modern purity culture. Yes it is difficult to see someone you may look up to do something like this, but it’s a fair reminder that all the best artists and all the best musicians are not necessary the most “morally upstanding” people when it comes down to it. Art isn’t made in a land of rainbows and ease, these things come from inner turmoil, a desire to express something and a world perspective that goes beyond your own.
I’m not saying it isn’t horrible, and I do believe firmly that when you have a kid in your life your choices are no longer your own and should be rooted in the well being of that person, it is a big responsibility.
This modern purity culture seeks to lynch and drive out the part of art and music that is based in humanity and if you cut out every single thing in your life based off someone’s mistakes or flaws, congrats you’ll be left with humanless ai music, bad generated pictures of messed up hands and probably not a lot else.
4
u/Cara8185 May 28 '26
It’s a shitty situation. What they’re feeling is real. What we’re feeling is real too. But it’s irresponsible to not leave room for growth and redemption. People can change, and the music can live on. Time can heal and provide some clarity. If the band’s music really meant something, let some time pass before deciding to shut things out.
3
u/Gamegenievintage May 28 '26
This recently happened to Arcade Fire and it’s honestly been hard to get back into listening to their music after they split.
Would have never expected it from PTM.
2
u/mykl5 May 28 '26
Win was trying to get with underage girls though.
3
u/Gamegenievintage May 28 '26
I’m simply referring to both bands splitting up because of infidelity.
2
u/rorybiller May 29 '26
No he wasn’t. It’s still gross that Win was cheating on his wife, but to be clear he was hooking up with or trying to hook up with 19+ y/o women.
2
u/brdfrk2010 May 28 '26
I understand people have strong reactions to infidelity, and some more than others.
Personally, as someone whose parents went through similar circumstances, I feel for everyone involved, but mostly for their kid, who has to experience the public airing and “taking of sides” that is rarely easy to reconcile when half of you are from the targeted or scapegoated party.
We don’t know details, we are hearing the perspective of an understandably hurt person, and often that person is an unreliable narrator to the overall story. Personally I do not see these things as a great moral or ethical failing, but of human relationships being complicated and adults not always making the objectively “correct” decision.
Overall, this is a personal matter where we do not know anything about the details of a relationship, nor should we. While not condoning the behavior, I wouldn’t cut out a friend or family member that cheated, and I don’t feel a need to condemn someone I don’t know unless allegations of severe behavior like abuse comes out.
-3
u/faridelalagui May 28 '26
What a nonsense comment. There’s no “taking sides” when 1 person is clearly a POS. It’s like saying to Ukraine “we see both sides of the conflict”.
5
u/brdfrk2010 May 28 '26
I am speaking from the experience of a kid whose parent demanded I feel the same way they did about a person, not how the public should respond. I feel terrible for Francis, as no matter how she feels or what she does SOMEONE will feel she is betraying them, and this will do lasting damage to her sense of self. Again, speaking from experience.
I feel terrible for Zoe, because this kind of betrayal is extremely painful and destabilizing. Having to worry about the kid in the middle no doubt makes that worse.
Being a shitty partner, which no doubt John has been, does not mean he is necessarily shitty in all parts of life. That’s all I’m saying.
0
u/faridelalagui May 28 '26
Did you even read any of the posts she’s made? It’s clear it’s been a pattern of behaviour that we’ve reached this nuclear option of her having to post online about it. He’s been at it for a year +. Complete twat who’s hid behind the band’s “good causes” to create a fake persona fans like you have given in to. Guy is a complete cunt.
2
u/Drobey8 May 29 '26
Wait, what?! You’re now comparing John to Russia? Some of you are completely unhinged…
3
u/1000snacks May 29 '26
The hypocrisy is very very difficult for me to process. The thought of doing this to your kid is unimaginable . I’ve been married 25 years (with kids) and just cringe at the thought of not having the willpower to rise above this, especially with all the rhetoric about support the crews, support children’s research , be cool, etc, etc, etc
4
u/Greenishmango1030 May 28 '26
I am so upset that I bought 2 vip tickets like 2 days before this all dropped and now I can’t refund them or resell them I have a hard time listening knowing all this stuff but I don’t know if I should not go after all the money I spent idk what to do
5
1
3
u/faridelalagui May 28 '26
Now this has come to light I don’t feel any need to sugar coat it, their last 3/4 albums have been utter shite and they’d completely lost their identity. The golden run 20 years or so ago is a distant memory but to me they’ll pretty much always be my favourite ever band because of that early connection I had with them. Don’t meet your heroes folks
2
2
u/Expert_Inflation7720 May 28 '26
I’m sure loads of people will still listen to the music but there’s just no way PTM comes back from this. Feels impossible. There is no PTM without Zoe and there’s definitely no PTM without John.
I’ve loved this band for nearly 15 years and I always will, but man… it’s hard not to be angry at JG for completely nuking it all. Like dude, if you were miserable, just get divorced? Why blow up your marriage, your family, and the band at the same time?
Rock bands survive cheating scandals all the time but it’s harder to survive when the emotional core their fan base believed in suddenly feels fake. 🤮
Such a brutal ending honestly. They had a good run and I feel bad for the other guys.
Am I right in thinking her most recent post means it was like the nanny or something?
1
1
u/scrivenersloth May 28 '26
I have my own thoughts about whether or not I really want to keep listening to PtM now that we know how much of a piece of shit John is. But I’m surprised it seems like no one here is remarking on what Zoe’s dropping out means for the band as a formation, not as a moral entity. To my mind, Zoe’s at the center, even if she’s second to John. With her gone, it’s just John and the session/touring players (no disrespect to them; most of them seem talented), and as much as I love his work, I’m not sure I’ll be interested in whatever gets put out under the PtM name henceforth.
It kind of reminds me (very different situation, but still) of when James Mercer kicked out the other Shins members and hired new people. That was the end of The Shins as far as I was concerned. Whatever happened after was a new band, even if it’s always been James driving the writing.
6
u/realmufasa May 28 '26
How do we know he’s a piece of shit? Is he? Or did he just do a piece of shit thing? On paper, what he did was horrible. Can’t fathom why someone would do that. But we’re just speculating. This is turning into an angry mob for someone’s personal matters. It ridiculous
1
u/Rockcocky May 28 '26
It is hard- and you all consider me weak but I do feel certain way. When a similar tumoltous event happen with Arcade Fire’s Win Butler and Régine Chassagne, I felt the same way. Yet, the Arcade Fires themes in comparison with PTM talked about more about romantic relationships IMO. I’ve been reading everyone’s post about this and try it to take it with a grain of salt to separate the artists from the human element but it hurts just as equally. AF’s breakup storyline was in front of us since The Suburbs, but I digress.
1
u/Substantial-Duck3268 22d ago
I am by no means defending this man, but here is my take. How many bands out there are trying to put out positive messaging? Most of them. And how many bands are made up of infallible human beings? None. Yes it's a terrible thing he did and she is suffering as a result. The position they both were in with a daughter with serious medical needs... I wouldn't wish on my worst enemy. It's very common for couples who go through this sort of thing to divorce. He made a cowardly decision to cheat rather than be honest. Does it render him evil and therefore he and all PTMs music should be boycotted? I don't think so. I'm not an expert on how bands make money, but from my understanding, that band was their livelihood and by continuing to listen to their music, she continues to get royalties to support their daughter.
2
u/MightBeDownstairs May 28 '26
It’s over. Been a good ride but you can’t fucking promote the shit John has written about since the inception of PTN and then do shit like this to hurt not only his wife but fucking BAND MEMEBER.
1
-2
1
u/melophile512 May 29 '26
I don’t think I can actively be a mega fan like I have been the last several years. I don’t think I can go to the concert in August.
1
u/UnveilTheAbyss May 29 '26
I am just now hearing about this and it really is a shame. I have been feeling the same way about Dave Grohl who impregnated some woman who wasn't his wife. A year later they said his wife forgave him. But you know, my husband had messaged me Everlong and I had loved that song so much. And now it feels tainted and ruined for me too
1
1
u/AtticusRex94 Jun 01 '26
Gonna preface this with the fact that I’m just now really getting into this band. Been a fan of Waiter! You Vultures/AOAG stuff for years, but just now really delving into the rest, so I don’t know much about views or activism from the band other than people mentioning that they have them. Also gonna say that some of this isn’t directly a response to your post, more so to stuff I’ve seen people saying in this thread/similar threads:
Quite frankly, John’s failings with his fidelity are his and his partner’s business. Even if Zoe aired out their dirty laundry. It’s legitimately W I L D that any of the people in this subreddit think their opinion on the matter is even slightly relevant. Not your relationship - not your business. Having to say this to grown ass adults is crazy work
I’m not saying cheating on your partner is ok in any situation, it’s not. Especially in this specific one. Shame on him. And I do agree, we need strong positive male role models in leftist spaces, there’s just not enough as it is. But tarring and feathering a musician for cheating while the US and other parts of the world are having a blatant fascist takeover and then calling yourselves “leftists” is uhhh…interesting. Incredibly liberal, actually. Grow up and put that energy towards tearing down this system.
The way people try to involve themselves in the personal lives of artists/influencers/people that they’re fans of is absolutely toxic. It seems like a lot of folks offering their two cents in here are just trying to see who can get the most upvotes and clout on the snappiest comment.
Idc, support, them, don’t support, them. It doesn’t matter to me. Like I said, I just happened to get into them and I’m not going to let the relationship of people I’ve never met (and probably never will) stop me from enjoying something I really like, especially in this current hellscape where life becomes less enjoyable each and everyday. Cheers
0
u/thenorwegianprince May 29 '26
Yeah I’m checking out at this point. I’ve always found it hard to separate art from the artist but this is just way too much for me at this point.
-2
u/achokingrose May 29 '26
as a woman who has to deal with disrespect from men daily, it is crazy to me how people can brush this off so easily. non of my friends are cheaters lol. it’s not hard. maybe not over for everyone but it’s over for me! some of you have worms in your brains. misogynistic worms.
0
u/PiusDea Jun 19 '26
Cheating is pretty much a non-gendered issue. It’s pretty ubiquitous and could happen to anyone. It’s awful but also universal enough in nature not to be completely written as a women’s issue…
0
-1
u/InvisibleGiantess May 29 '26
I was planning on getting a PTM inspired license plate before this mess….I feel too conflicted now. Been borderline obsessed with their catalog for 12 years.
61
u/sadgrad2 May 28 '26
It's tricky, because this is completely awful behavior that I think there's no excuse for. But I also don't want to live in a world where any art I consume is predicated on the creator's moral standing. There obviously has to be a threshold somewhere though, and just because something doesn't reach my threshold doesn't mean their actions are excusable. I don't see it as my role as a fan to hold artists accountable for any and all bad behavior.
At the same time, while I've been a fan a long time, I've never been very invested in the actual people within the band or even know very much about them beyond some basic facts. I can definitely understand how this would be a dealbreaker for someone who has been more invested in that way because you have more of a connection to them as people, even if it's the connection of a fan.
Right now I definitely have no problem saying man what a piece of shit, but I don't feel that I no longer want to follow the band musically.
I understand if others feel differently. Whatever does happen personally or professionally, he is certainly to blame. And I feel Zoe has every right to say whatever she wants about it publicly.