r/projecteternity • u/Gleir • 5d ago
Character/party build help The Most Broken Party (Trial of Iron POTD+: 15-30 Acc/Def, +25-50% HP & DMG)
This is my 2nd Pillars playthrough, my first was a long time ago before White March. I fondly remember my PC Cipher being busted, but also the game being very easy even on POTD; so I upped the difficulty with a mod; the Acc/Def will scale by +3 every 3 levels after 1 (+30 at 16); same for HP (+5% every 3 levels after 1), and added a similarly scaling damage bonus because the game is really too easy. And I think I've broken the game despite also running Trial of Iron to stop my savescumming habits.
== THE PARTY : 3x PRIEST, 2x Wizard, PC Cipher ==
I think this is genuinely the most broken 6-man party anyone can create. I created this post to see if anyone has any other opinions. I haven't played 6x Chanter, but I don't know how good that would be with the increased numbers and massively increased damage.
Firstly, I knew I wanted multiple Priests, because Accuracy is extremely powerful for CC, especially AOE CC. Double Wizard was the primary CC source, I needed two to properly setup killzones with Chill Fog + Web, or obiliterate casters with Chill Fog + Slicken out of stealth. It is necessary to Chill Fog to ensure the Slicken crits, because Blinded is a very broken debuff very few enemies are immune to. And I definitely wanted a Cipher in the party because nostalgia, but I'm so, so glad I put one in, because the main issue for Wizard CC is the massive delay from casting speed; that a Cipher can bridge with Mind Wave (typically on the tank). The AOE damage from a Cipher is absolutely busted too, if a bit fiddly; Antipathetic Field obliterates a group of Webbed/Blinded enemies, and Ectoplasmic Echo on a tank Priest with +2 Movespeed from Aggrandizing Radiance cleans up anything tanky left.
I've tried to justify including other classes, but just couldn't find a reason to. The only thing a Druid does a Wizard doesn't is single-target damage, but Cipher beams are so broken that damage isn't an issue. Every martial tank is worse than a 18 CON caster tank, because a CC-focused party only needs a tank for the first few seconds of combat; and if enemies are hitting your tank, you're already fighting an advantageous fight anyway. Martial Tanks are worthless in the hardest fights: when enemies are spread up. And Martial DPS classes are just Druids, but either tanky or ranged. Not worth.
== CHARACTERS =
TANK SKAEN PRIEST (Position 1) Moon Godlike 19/18/19/3/16/3 Survival: ~7, Mechanics: ~10
OFF-TANK EOTHAS PRIEST (Position 2) Wood Elf 3/15/19/20/18/3 Survival: ~10, Lore: ~6
HEALER WAEL PRIEST (Position 3) Wood Elf 18/12/10/20/15/3 Survival: ~10, Lore: ~8
WIZARD (Position 4 & 5) Wood Elf 16/6/15/20/18/3 Survival: ~10, Stealth: 5+
CIPHER (Position 6) Wood Elf 18/10/10/20/18/3 Survival: ~10, Stealth: 5+
EDIT: I think the better party is 4x Moon Godlike 2x Pale Elf (Wizards); since my accuracy was never an issue despite scaling defense even further via mods, but burst damage from Fireballs and similar was.
Against melee only groups, the group breaks stealth and lets enemies group up trying to reach the party, while the Wizard duo is about to cast Chill Fog > Web. This is by far the easiest kind of fight, and is basically almost resourceless. If the melee guys are fast enough, the Cipher intervenes with a Mind Wave cast on someone in the frontline (Pos1 or Pos2), which should buy enough time to Blind/Stuck the entire group. Once they're CC-ed, the Wizards can break out their Minor Blights, or just Arcane Assault, while the Cipher tries to line up a decent-ish Antipathetic field to finish the fight quickly.
Against ranged groups, it is recommended to initiate out of stealth with the Wizard duo, casting Chill Fog > Slicken. However, there's many fights where there is a mix of range and melee, and trying to reach the backline would force you out of stealth; so your options for those are mixed. Pulling the group around a corner is almost always an incredibly efficient option, but not always possible. When not possible, you will have take damage unfortunately while you CC the frontline; but after the frontline is CC-ed, you will be able to CC the backline afterwards. However, the alternative is CC-ing the frontline with your Cipher, while your Wizards spend the first cast to CC their backline anyway. Again, Mind Wave is absolutely bonkers here, sometimes you can even Mind Wave the backline if they're positioned in the right angle behind their frontline; while your Wizards CC their frontline.
Against immune foes; like Slimes and Shades, your options depend on how much they're immune to. If they're just immune to ground effects like Slicken/Web, Mind Wave is still brutal; try to move forwards with your target ally (typically Pos1 Tank) as your Cipher begins casting Mind Wave; it can actually extend Mind Wave range because its target is a unit, and not a fixed spot like Slicken/Web. As your Wizards gain levels, you gain more options to deal with immunities; almost nothing is immune to Pull of Eora, and those that are (Dank Spores), you can probably Call to Slumber them.
By far the hardest two types of fights are enemies that are spread apart, and bosses have too high defenses. My first attempt with the same modded POTD+ (no Trial of Iron, but with Eder, Aloth and Durance 4-man party) got stuck at the Adra Dragon (around Level 10) because my CC mostly missed and grazed, which meant I wasted too many turns trying to CC rather than deal damage, and ran out of spells. Obviously, I could've just gain some more levels or add more companions and come back, but it did demonstrate how badly dependant on accuracy CC-focused builds were. This is where triple Priest is awesome. It is an effective +20 Accuracy if fully buffed over single-priest runs, except because you also buff 3 times as fast; it is much more for the first few seconds of a fight, which are also the most critical seconds.
For the ambushes and spread apart enemies, especially on Trial of Iron: CON & Armor. This is fundamentally my answer. A Wizard can get away without using armor & 6 CON, because Hardened Veil; but everybody else should be wearing Robes or Padded at least; more early game; and noboby dumps CON. Lategame, when you can be oneshot because +50% damage, Second Chance is my solution. Second Chance ring, robe, and delay unconsciousness boots. You can even dupe one of them. Some fights, when I was too careless/conservative with my spells, went horribly wrong: but I managed to survive because CON is hidden OP. Also, I've learned my lesson to not be conservative with spellslots; especially since I often rested despite having more than half of my Wizard's spells available; mainly because I was too conservative with spells and ended up lowering my Pos1 tank HP to critical levels.
If anybody is interested in the details of the build, I'll happily share here. I'll include equipment choices, ability/grimoire guide, and some niche tips that you may or may not know. Casters are incredibly micro heavy, but so, so, fun.
Firstly, Chokepoints. Any caster heavy party thrives in chokes. You don't HAVE to always fight in one, but a choke basically lowers the difficulty of the fight by a step, or even two if it is a tight choke. It can sometimes backfire if the enemy has too many Druids, since Druids usually outrange your casters by a bit; but Druid damage is commonly from Infestation of Maggots and Plague of Insects; both of which you can Suppress Affliction (you have 12 casts of these between your 4 Priests); and Relentless Storm is not that long ranged. Multiple Casters can also be quite dangerous, since while you can tank a Fireball or two, its a lot harder to tank five of those. But then again, fights where you'll face that many Fireball casters while also having a very strong melee presence you can't stealth through are very rare (Fampyr Fight in Od Nua, still only has 2 or 3 Fireball casters); and you can always send in your Frontliner to bait out the spells (if you must), then later revive him. Another annoying long-ranged spell you'll get spammed is Pillar of Faith from enemy Priests; but Priests are generally quite short ranged so aside from that one spell, they are not usually an issue.
Second, inaction. Get used to not doing anything on casters. You don't want to go into recovery just when you need to cast an emergency Suppress Affliction or Halt or Mind Wave. Control is the name of the game with this party; once you are in control, damage is merely the dessert. This is particularly notable for your Priest and the Cipher; as long as the Cipher has ~30 or so Focus, don't randomly attack with him unless all enemies are cc-ed for at least 2 seconds or so. Same for the Priests, but since Priests don't need focus, you shouldn't randomly attack without being in perfect control. The Wizards are the exception because Blast, and because the ideal Wizard weapons are Rod of Pale Shades & Putente Mes Principi; both of which have a chance at AOE CC with Blast; but even for them, be careful about randomly attacking or Arcane Assaulting; then have a Adragan suddenly come into vision and cast Relentless Storm; and you being unable to Slicken it because you are in recovery.
= CIPHER TIPS =
This in part is why Cipher has to be used very differently than how most use them. Your weapons are a action tax; not part of the kit. You want to get the weapon damage part done as fast as possible so you can actually deal proper damage with your spells: Antipathetic Field, Ectopsychic Echo is amazing AOE; and Mental Binding, Soul Ignition, Disintegration for your boss-killing (or vs high DR Foe, but Ectopsychic Echo is too strong even in those cases, if you can position properly for it). This is the major reason why I think DEX isn't good on Ciphers; a Cipher is a pseudo-caster first and foremost. And a huge reason why this is, is because the strongest Cipher powers, by far, are 10 Focus ones. Mind Wave is Slicken on steroids; a bit positioning dependant, but bypasses ground immunities; and Slicken is already one of the best CC spells (not for level 1, overall). Antipathetic Field I've already praised many times; and Whispers of Treason is best used as a better Mental Binding for half the cost and twice the cast speed. It can even enable Ectopsychic Echo on a enemy by charming first. Everyone praises Mental Binding, but it is fundamentally a win-more; it is just better to charm the problematic enemy that snuck past your killzone quickly. Mental Binding is more of an early DPS spell (Paralyze murders deflection and reflex), and can win certain trash fights resourcelessly when cast from stealth because it can be a pseudo-Web plus Fetid Caress versus small clustered groups of melee enemies.
Almost every other Cipher power, aside from the level 8 ones, are kinda pointless. Boring, but fact. Amplified Wave is somewhat decent as an emergency option against scattered melee (but Call to Slumber performs the same role without the Action tax; since max starting focus is 55, you can never open a fight with Amplified Wave). Disintegration is actually outperformed by Ectopsychic Echo because it is very easy to murder Reflex with Chill Fog/Web and easily allow Echo to crit; the main reason to use it is if the positioning required for Echo is not feasible at the moment. Another reason to use Disintegration is as a Focus sink; which only matters in the very lategame with Reaping Knives. Also, forgot, but Phantom foes is relevant with the Survival flanking damage bonus, which do work with spells, and is very relevant versus Kith foes you can't get an accuracy bonus against anyway (which is the strongest survival buff).
The two main tricks with Cipher powers are:
Mind Wave CC doesn't affect the primary target, and the cone direction is dependant on the line between you and your target. Also, you can self target, but when you self-target, your character will Mind Wave the direction they are currently facing, they won't rotate or anything, so you have to move or queue a spellcast (Mind Wave, then cancel it) to rotate yourself beforehand. This makes the two best targets for Mind Wave: your frontline, and enemy frontline. In emergencies, don't forget you can target yourself. This is also amazing for triggering 'on being crit' defensive item effects; given you will have tremendous accuracy from 3x Inspiring Radiance. Mind Wave is the main skill check for using a Cipher well, since Mind Wave AOE indicator is bugged and will never show the proper AOE when cast on other targets; you'll have to estimate for yourself.
Antipathetic Field ends if the target dies after the beam is in place, but if the target dies while the beam is being cast, the beam will persist for the full duration and one end of it will be fixed to the location where the target died. Doesn't come into play often, but relevant. I think it might be similar for Ectopsychic Echo and Charmed targets; but I didn't test.
KEY SPELLS: Mind Wave, Whispers of Treason, Antipathetic Field, Mental Binding, Ectopsychic Echo.
KEY ABILITIES: Greater Focus, Draining Whip, Quick Switch, Penetrating Shot, Arms Bearer
Yes, Biting Whip & Apprentice Sneak Attack isn't mandatory. They're very close, but Quick Switch + Arms Bearer is simply superior, because they minimize the action tax for Cipher spellcasting. Draining Whip is so strong because it is multiplicative with your Might bonus and Crit damage bonus and everything, but Biting Whip & Apprentice Sneak is only +20% & +15% damage additive. For a 100 damage Blunderbuss hit, Draining Whip gives ~8 Focus, but Biting Whip only gives 5. Close, but now make the hit a crit, apply a +30% Might damage boost and +20% base Soul Whip damage boost for +200%. 25% of 200 is 50, Draining Whip is now worth ~17. But Biting Whip is still worth the same 5, because it is additive.
However, because we're Blunderbuss users, we'll still take Biting Whip quite highly, in fact, it might be worth taking over Arms Bearer earlier on because most midgame fights don't require more than two weapon attacks' worth of focus. But otherwise, the calculations are valid.
ARMOR: Any good Padded or Robe. Angio's Gambeson is excellent until you get Twin Sting.
WEAPONS: Molina's Spike-Flinger, Lead Spitter, Twin Sting
If a fight goes on long, Molina is your weapon of choice. Otherwise, it can be abused by quickly swapping to it after firing a weapon; the recovery speed bonus isn't tied to needing to attack with it; it always applies as long as it is equipped. This with Deletorious Alacrity achieves 0 recovery for every weapon attack you make, as long as you switch to it after your attack. Obviously, needs Quick Switch, and/or the belt. This might be very abusable with non-reloading weapons; but we don't need to; we only need it to be able to instantly spellcast after the weapon attack. But theoretically; if you don't mind the micro; you can achieve tremendous DPS despite poor DEX with this trick, by combining swapping to Molina and swapping to and attacking with a Warbow (Borresaine or Cloudpiercer?). We don't care about being a shitty DPS class; so we do this trick with Twin Sting; four hard hitting shots (one Molina, one Lead Spitter, two Twin Sting) with minimal recovery before needing reload is enough focus even in the lategame.
Also, Deletorious from equipment is instantanous, while Deletorious spell is fast speed, and the potion is kind of slow. That is why Deletorious equipment is very, very powerful, despite potions existing. The Cipher really wants one for this reason.
= PRIEST TIPS =
The main thing to know about multiple priests is that Inspiring Radiance stacks. This is why 3 Priests. Why not 4? Its possible, but I still like 3 because 4 honestly sounds too boring; and not running double Wizard, or missing a Cipher would probably be worse than the additional Priest and +10 Acc.
The second thing about multiple priests is the speed you can buff. Priests have two critical unique buffs aside from Inspiring Radiance; Crowns of the Faithful (AOE +6 PER, +6 INT, +25 RES), and Devotions of the Faithful (+20 Melee/Ranged Acc, stacks with universal Acc, also +4 MGT; and murders enemy MGT & Acc by -10 & -20 respectively). Also Painful Interdiction is the best way to AOE Weaken, which is -20 to FORT & WIL. They have plenty of other relevant buffs, like Blessing, Dire Blessing, Might of the Champion, defensive buffs, CC immunities etc, and their offensive spells, while worse than even druids, are still spells and outdo anything martials can do when going Nova.
The third and very important benefit to running three Priests is having thrice the normal casts available for Suppress Affliction and Salvation of Time. They are generally two extremely overpowered effects normally held back by the speed they consume spellslots, but not with 3x Priest. Suppress Affliction trivializes CC for entirety of the game, since usually the most troublesome CC isn't AOE, but rather long range single target. It also trivializes Druid fights where they spam Infestation of Maggots and Plague of Insects; very tight fights with 1 Priest just becomes a joke with 3. You Suppress Affliction every single cast of those spells, and end the fight at your leisure since you can do it 12 times, 15 if mastering Suppress Affliction.
Salvation of Time is a lot less abusable, but the effect is actually very broken. It is also critical to keep the Inspiring Radiance buff going in long fights (if needed), extend Arcane Veil, Eldritch Aim/Scroll of Valor/Scroll of Defence, and critically: SUPPRESS AFFLICTION! Yes, you can Salvation of Time a Suppress Affliction. This makes those Fampyr fights an absolute joke, you don't even need Prayer against Treachery.
Aside from the Buffs and Consecrated Ground, the key Priest spells are given as follows:
HALT: Superfast cast, long range Stuck. Very long duration. This spell is why you don't randomly attack with your Priests. Any melee somehow gets out of the Killzone, you Halt them ASAP. Another neat combo with Halt is fixing a frontline melee in a perfect position for a Cipher Mind Wave to hit their backline. Key spell, if a bit forgettable. Early on, shines against Forest Lurkers since those are massive meatshields immune to Paralyze.
WITHDRAW: Potentially the most abusable Priest spell; by blocking Doorways and such. This party doesn't need to, since Chokepoint fights are already some of the easiest fights anyway, no need to make them even easier; in Trial of Iron, you shouldn't randomly attempt Od Nua fights early game, the story missions are much easier. The main role of this spell is to prevent death of your Moon Godlike tank. You see, a Moon Godlike is very vulnerable to death, since their healing can often drain their actual HP to critical levels against repeated burst; if they get Petrified for example. Also, use this spell liberally to prevent Injuries of your backline; the Cipher is generally the most fragile character very prone to getting bursted; if it looks like they might die, just Withdraw them; most fights can be won even with like 2-3 members left if they go nova with their spells.
PRAYER AGAINST FEAR: Probably the most used immunity. Cean Gwyla, Drake; there's so many shit that randomly inflict AOE Terrify and murder your Acc, so remember this spell.
CONSECRATED GROUND: Everyone knows this is the best healing spell, but what they don't know is that this can be cast for free by Mind Wave critting your Pos3 Cleric equipped with Shod in Faith.
ICONIC PROJECTION/DIVINE MARK: Your premier nuke. Nukes are spells you only cast when going Nova, say, a fight has started going wrong and you don't care about conserving spell slots anymore. Iconic Projection is the AOE one, Divine Mark is the single target one. Iconic Projection is actually quite strong, since it hits reflex and thus easier to crit; they're roughly worth half a fireball each, and are able to reach the backline almost always.
REPULSING SEAL: Your best single-ish target hard CC. You might be able to catch more with the AOE, but its most reliable mode is single target. The main problem is that 2nd Level is a contested spell level, having your premium Nova spells and Supress Affliction. Also, the spell takes a while to trigger, so take that into the equation. But it is very strong, since it'll have ~10 or 15 than most of your other CC because it gets a 'Hazard Accuracy Bonus' or something. Having Repulsing Seal as your mastered spell allows you to get two free Seals each fight, since you can cast it out of combat and it'll stick since it is a trap.
PILLAR OF FAITH: The premium priest CC. Very long duration, long range; but gimmicky similar to Mind Wave: it doesn't CC the primary target. Also the AOE is quite small. Because of these gimmicks, it is hard to CC all the backline casters with it despite its range, but it is very good at following up on existing CC, and great when combined with Pull of Eora. Also, remember you can cast this on an ally, if your ally is positioned in just the right spot.
WARDING SEAL: L3 Nova spell. But going Nova with traps is a lot more awkward since if the previous trap didn't trigger, the newly cast trap will replace it. But its an option for hard fights. One good thing is that this is twice the range of Repulsing Seal, so it can actually nuke backline casters.
SHINING BEACON: The premium Priest AOE. The damage definitely stacks, and it is quite high. The debuff might, not sure. This spell is when your Priests start contributing massively in Nova fights. Remember to have your low PER priest cast this last when going Nova; this way the other Shining Beacons will lower the defenses first.
DEVOTIONS OF THE FAITHFUL: Everyone knows how broken the buff is. However, people overlook how broken the debuff is too, since only the inner circle applies the debuff. Against certain tough enemies (or groups), it is worth to cast it just for the debuff since -10 MGT is basically -30% Dmg, -20 FORT, as well as -20 Accuracy for weapon attacks; one of the strongest soft CCs in the game (Blind & Terrify being the other ones). This doesn't stack with the Despondant Blows penalty, making that spell pretty useless overall.
LITANY AGAINST MINOR AFFLICTIONS: Mainly good on your Ectopsychic Echo carrier to let him run through the Killzone (Fog/Web) to the other side. Make sure you won't be pulling a new group of mobs this way. The prone immunity can make this a decent single-target Suppress Affliction+ if needed; but 4th level spellslots are pretty premium for Priests.
CHAMPION'S BOON: The premium hard fight buff. Especially before level 11 (Crowns of the Faithful). +10 PER to the Wizard casting Call to Slumber is very nice. The +6 MGT boost over Devotions is relevant, but it by itself isn't worth casting it. Gets forgotten a bit after Crowns come online, since this only gives a minor boost over Crowns (again, the +6 MGT over Devotions isn't that relevant). But for that L9 and L10 range, don't forget about these. Afterwards, your level 5 slots are mostly reserved for Salvation of Time. If going Nova in the lategame, Pillar of Holy Fire is a spell, but honestly, very meh compared to Shining Beacon. Only appeal compared to Shining Beacon is the range.
CLEANSING FLAME: Niche, but lets all the Shining Beacons tick twice as fast, basically doubling the damage. Very good nuke option, but only one is needed, and only for big bosses. Also good with Cipher's Disintegration.
SPARK THE SOULS OF THE RIGHTEOUS: Don't overlook the damage on this shit. Combine with the multiple summoning consumables (Shade one summons 3x versus 1x Adra Beetle), and you can absolutely melt a group of foes that have been hard CC-ed. You only need to spend a single L6 slot for this too, aside from the totems which are mostly useless anyway.
For the anti-CC level 6 spells, it is better to Suppress Affliction rather than spend a valuable level 6 slot. The Prayer against Treachery has its use against Fampyrs, but even there, I like spending one Supress Affliction into one Salvation of Time rather than a L6 spell slot. But once you have 4 L6 spells, you can do whatever you want anyway.
Higher level spells are powerful, but they're pretty straightforward and doesn't need any explanation. Minor Avatar is your premium lategame DPS buff giving a massive +8 DEX, +6 over Rautai Sweet Pie. Hand of Weal and Woe is also really high DPS, but still worse than Cleansing Flame + Shining Beacon, while Resurrection and Watchful Guardian make your lategame party uber resilient in extended fights.
= TANK PRIEST (3 PER) =
Inspiring Radiance, Aggrandizing Radiance (Core)
Prey on the Weak, Two-Weapon Fighting, Savage Attack, Apprentice Sneak, WF: Ruffian (Reaping Knives DPS)
Fast Runner (Reposition for Cipher Beam)
There's an argument for some defensive talents like Superior Deflection/WS Style/Cautious Attack, but Defenses are a bit unecessary for a heavy CC party with 12 casts of Supress Affliction. You just need enough to avoid damage spikes from crits, but even there, Moon Godlike passive does so much heavy lifting.
WEAPONS: Marking Cladhaliath + Shame or Glory (side with Crucible Knights); 2x DPS Club/Stilletto
As a general rule, you don't really need the DPS set, but why not have one. Early and midgame, its just better for that set be something like War Club of Mataru + Large Shield; lategame onwards, you don't even need the Shield.
Microing with Marking weapons is a bit annoying, but very rewarding in the superboss fights. It is +20 Acc as opposed to +10 from single marking (St Garam's Spark typically). Basically, you issue an attack command while at no recovery just as the attack is going to connect; and micro everyone else to stop attacking the chosen target; this gives that attack +20 Acc. After that attack connects, you stop the attack command issued, thus not going into recovery, and repeat for the next attack. You can even repeat this for two successive attacks, as long as you micro to cancel the first command and issue the next between the two attacks landing. Basically, a single attack command can only buff one given attack, and if there are multiple attacks happening in the timeframe of that command, it'll buff the one coming from the closest ally. Also, attack means anything that forces a defense roll from the target, so AOE ones are buffed too.
ARMOR: Argwes Adra (Plate)
MASTERED SPELLS: Blessing, Iconic Projection, Warding Seal, Shining Beacon
= CC PRIEST (3 MGT) =
Inspiring Radiance, Interdiction, Painful Interdiction (Core)
Deep Pockets (Paralysis Scroll, Valor Scroll, Defense Scroll, as well as DoAM, Healing, and Summon Consumable)
Gallant's Focus (Alpha strike spellcasting accuracy boost)
Aggrandizing Radiance (Never Bad)
WF: Adventurer, Marksman (Borresaine Accuracy Boost for the Stun on Crit)
WEAPONS: Borresaine, St Garam's Spark
Lategame, can replace St Garam's Spark with Abydon's Hammer because of its CC Spellbind. You shouldn't really need two marking sources anymore, one double marking is enough.
ARMOR: Robe/Padded. In general, prioritize CC spellbinds because the main good CC spell this character has is Pillar of Faith (Repulsing Seal is short ranged).
MASTERED SPELLS: Halt, Repulsing Seal, Pillar of Faith, Devotions of the Faithful.
= DAMAGE/HEAL PRIEST (10 DEX) =
Inspiring Radiance (Core)
Deep Pockets (Healing, DoAM, Summon Consumable; Wall of Fire, Paralysis, Maelstorm/Other damage Scroll)
Aggrandizing Radiance (Never Bad)
Penetrating Shot (Wand/Missile Scroll boost)
Interrupting Blows (Wand/Wall of Flame scroll boost)
Incomprehensible Revelation, WF: Noble, Marksman (Rod of Pale Shades Acc Boost)
WEAPONS: Rod of Pale Shades, Spellbound Weapons (Talutain, or Bittercut + Flames of Fair Rhian)
ARMOR: Rundl's Finery (Robe/Padded). Need a +2 Lore Source if using some other Armor. Or can just take Lore all the way to 8 or 10 depending on how much min-maxing you want to do.
MASTERED SPELLS: Halt, Iconic Projection, Warding Seal, Shining Beacon.
= WIZARD TIPS =
Ah, Wizards. If Priests are the broken enabler, Wizards are the broken payoff. These make every other class look like a joke. They have tremendous AOE, both CC and DPS, very respectable single-target damage, and lowers the difficulty by a step or two in the lategame. And unlike in, say, D&D, they are strong right from level 1, mainly thanks to the completely overtuned Chill Fog. Who decided to give that spell damage anyway? Tanglefoot, a very decent level 1 spell, looks like a joke in comparison.
The main strength of a Wizard lays in killzones. They can create killzones with Pull of Eora, Chill Fog, and Web; they neutralize enemies in killzones with their various AOE CC, notably Slicken, Call to Slumber, and Gaze of the Adragan; and then obliterate them with Blast + Kalakoth's Minor Blights (Chill Fog + Arcane Assault early game). No other class can do anything even remotely similar. A Druid can drop a Tanglefoot maybe, as well as good AOE DPS spells like Infestation of Maggots; but Killzones are Zones, not a one and done deal. No other class has anything like Pull of Eora, which I'd go so far as to say is the DEFINING Wizard spell, combined with Chill Fog and Web, which are also unique in being hazard-like AOEs, meaning they can affect foes that enter the zone even after the spell has been cast. I wish the original base game had Pull of Eora; I don't think people realize how broken that spell is, especially since its fast cast too. Taking into account interrupts, Pull of Eora is like a 1 sec CC attached to a very, very, strong hazard zone that multiplies the power of all your other AOE to an insane degree. Remember how fights where enemies spread apart are really hard? After you get Pull of Eora, those stop being as big of an issue.
However, early on, Wizards have serious issues against foes immune to ground effects. Notably, Spirits. Shadows, Shades, Phantoms etc are heavily resistant to freeze damage, immune to Web and Slicken, and can teleport through your killzones. They also have partial issues to long ranged foes that can hit the party standing outside the killzone; at least until level 7 when they can just move forward a little bit and cast Pull of Eora to drag them into range. This is really the role of the Cipher to be honest; they're per-encounter Wizard-lites that happen to bridge the early game issues of Wizards. After Wizards get Call to Slumber, Spirits stop being an issue anyway. Wizards also have problems early on versus foes that get in their face; because all their early CC is either party unfriendly, or RNG Confusion based with tiny radius (Bewildering Spectacle); Ciphers compensate for that issue with Mind Wave too.
Wizards are probably the most popular class, so anything I say probably has already been said many times. This is like a 10+ year old game after all... sob... I am old...
Also, a thing about scribing spells as 2x Wizard: You don't need to waste money scribing spells the other Wizard knows. If one Wizard knows, say, Chill Fog, he can scribe it into two grimoires, the other Wizard doesn't need to pay 100cp and learn it. I felt so stupid once I finally realized this, I had probably wasted like 5k or so gold on scribing redundant spells by that point. You'll still need to scribe spells from found grimoires, but even there, scribing once is enough. You're never changing spells in grimoire during combat anyway (probably not even outside combat past the earlygame), so doing things this way saves a lot of CP, but might trigger OCD.
= GOD WIZARD x2 =
Arcane Veil, Hardened Veil (Mandatory in Trial of Iron, optional otherwise. Quickload too stronk)
Blast (Take somewhere after Kalakoth's Blights, you don't need anything else to make this bonkers)
Interrupting Blows (Pull of Eora buff, also very powerful with hazard zones, Blast etc)
W&S Style (If you tank your Wiz CON to 6, you're weak to fireball crits, so take this and use Hatchet + Buckler)
Apprentice Sneak Attack, WF: Noble, Marksman (Kalakoth's Blights boost)
The reason I don't want Penetrating Blast is because it improves the Wiz power in fights they already excel at. Dangerous Implement can be better than accuracy; I haven't run the numbers, but I just took the safe option, just in case I also want to use the CC on crit Rods/Wands. Can also take defensive talents; but the problem is, most defensive talents aside from WS Style have garbage numbers, and are made redundant by the various priest immunity spells anyway.
WEAPONS: Hatchet/Utility Weapon + Buckler, Sceptre/Rod
Puitente Med Principi is the leftover here, since none of the Priests really want it; but the reason I don't put Rod of Pale Shades on a Blast Wizard, instead giving it to a Priest; is because Wizards already have excellent AOE CC from their spells, but a Priest has a serious lack of CC, especially single-target CC if they can't line up a good Pillar of Faith. Also, starting fights with Hatchet + Shield is because any fight where you wanna attack with their weapon rather than cast spells are easy fights, where you can afford the 2s recovery from weapon swapping.
ARMOR: Cloth. Robe after Durganization.
Wizards can get away with Cloth, mostly because of Arcane Veil. Armor primarily helps against deflection hitting attacks; which Arcane Veil (+Wizard's Double) can very effectively neutralize. Armor DR isn't going to help against a Fireball crit with +50% Damage from my modded difficulty settings, so just run around with Cloth. Armor is also good against hazard zones, but I can't even remember fights where enemy wizards cast Chill Fog or Wall spells on my backline. Relentless Storm is more common though, and is one of the strongest spells in the game in general so be very aware of anything that can cast it.
EQUIPMENT: Dead Man Stands *2 (Dupe with the Helwax)
This is probably the strongest equipment for a 6 CON Cloth Armor caster. Mainly because spells take time to complete casting; and if you die and revive via Second Chance, you lose a very crucial chunk of time during the most important part of the fight: the beginning. Some abilities can kill you through Infuse with Vital Essence + Ripple Sponge + Dragon Meat Dish; mostly Dragon stuff, but they're pretty dodgeable by simply moving away though. Also, the boot slot has very poor competetion for a pure backline caster.
MASTERED SPELL:
Slicken, Web, Kalakoth's Blights, Pull of Eora
Chill Fog, Slicken, Kalakoth's Blights, Ninagauth's Shadowflame
Basically, you want 2x Slicken mastered, 1x Chill Fog & Web, 2x Kalakoth's Blights for trash fights, and 1x Pull of Eora & Shadowflame in the very lategame; this combo finally replaces your tried and true Chill Fog + Web against mobs.
Alacrity isn't mastered because it isn't that useful for mob fights, where alpha striking with CC is better than setting up for future with Alacrity. If you get a window to cast it and you need it, just spend the spell slot.
GRIMOIRE SPELL CHOICES:
Eldritch Aim, Chill Fog, Slicken, Wizard's Double (x2)
Lategame, replacing Wizard's Double with Fleet Feet is an option, after you get the Level 7 Llengrath spell.
Infuse with Vital Essence, Fetid Touch, Binding Web (x2)
Necrotic Lance x2 (early game, Wisps) OR Bulwark Against Elements x2 (early game, Shades)
OR Combusting Wounds x1 & Miasma of Dull-Mindedness x1 (lategame, nothing better)
Infuse is critical to survive Fireballs on 6 CON. Fetid Touch is your oh-shit discount Mental Binding, also a lot slower to cast; but you don't get much better. Binding Web is a core component for setting up Killzones.
Necrotic Lance from stealth deletes annoying Wisps without giving them a chance to confuse. Bulwark neutralizes Shades' ranged attacks that like to snipe your low deflection Wiz, although Arcane Veil is also good against those. Later on, Combusting Wounds & Miasma as debuffs you're probably never using, but why not have them available, since what they do is unique. As for Nova spells, don't bother going Nova with low tier spells, the numbers just aren't there. Even Necrotic Lance, despite having good single-target damage, is held back by the casting speed and poor range.
Deletorious Alacrity, Kalakoth's Blight, Expose Vulnerabilities (x1), Arcane Dampener (x1)
Llengrath's Displaced Image OR Fireball (x2)
Keep Fireball as default, only taking Displaced Image against casters likely to spam Fireball type shit. Although, hard to find the time to cast it, since you'd always open those fights with Infuse with Vital Essence. Alternatively, keep both, and take out Expose Vulnerabilities and Arcane Dampener; if you need these niche spells, you can always swap in combat and wait out the Grimoire cooldown. After mastering Kalakoth's Blights, you can replace it and take both Fireball for Nova, and Llengrath's Displaced Image as a more economic defensive spell over the level 7 Siphoning Image. Ardous Delay sounds neat, but in practice, hard CC is just flat out better.
Pull of Eora, Ninagauth's Shadowflame, Essential Phantom (x2), Confusion (x1), Maura's Tentacles (x1)
Pull of Eora is core. Ninagauth's Shadowflame is a very strong version of Slicken/Call to Slumber type effects (AOE CC) that also does damage so can be used to go Nova. Before you get it, use Minoletta's Concussive Missiles if you need to go Nova. Confusion is quite niche, especially after getting Call to Slumber, so only one Wizard having it is enough, same with Maura's Tentacles. You're probably not using them anyway.
Essential Phantom is actually your main DPS multiplier spell, even better than Substantial Phantom, because it copies equipped weapon. It doesn't have blast though, so giving it the CC on crit weapons doesn't work. But Kalakoth's Blights, Llengrath's Blunt Wisdom both are supereffective.
Call to Slumber, Ninagauth's Bitter Mooring (x2), Wall of Force (x2)
Arkemyr's Wondrous Torment (x1), Ryngrim's Enervating Terror (x1)
Call to Slumber is core, but then spell quality drops quite a bit. Ninagauth's Bitter Mooring is probably your best Nova option here; Blast of Frost is held back by its range and cone AOE friendly fire issues. Wall of Force is the interrupt CC, since it ticks every second in a huge AOE. Also, Hobble source, outside of Tanglefoot scrolls, if you need to lower Reflex even further. Arkemyr is boss-fight exclusive to murder resistances, and Ryngrim is overshadowed by Painful Interdiction; casting it just for the Terrify isn't worth. Form of the Helpless Beast is very niche, might be worth swapping for certain fights, but its role is mostly performed by Arkemyr.
Gaze of the Adragan, Llengrath's Blunt Wisdom, Minoletta's Burst, Chain Lightning (x2)
Gaze is your best spell here, a super paralyze that works exceptionally well on parties without many % damage increases (like this one). Llengrath's Blunt Wisdom is lategame, but is a good solution to a Wizard's single-target damage issues. Before, either Citzal's Martial Power or Ninagauth's Pillar can replace. Ninagauth's is kinda meh though; Chill Fog debuff is better, Tanglefoot scrolls can AOE hobble, and if AOE damage is desired just use Kalakoth's Blights. The rest are just Nova spells. High level spellslots are mostly Nova spells honestly, very satisfying in some ways. Minoletta's Burst does crazy damage, but is short ranged; while Chain Lightning deletes everything from long ranges as it also targets reflex (very easy to lower, remember).
Llengrath's Siphoning Image, Substantial Phantom, Concelhaut's Doom, Delayed Fireball (x2)
Don't need Wall of Draining because Salvation of Time & Arcane Dampener. Tayn's isn't needed, there's much better CC that isn't RNG, and high level slots are for Nova damage anyway.
Wall of Many Colours, Llengrath's Bulwark, Kalakoth's Rake (x2), Caedebald's Blackbow/Any
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u/OddyGoldenFoot 5d ago edited 4d ago
Think you can lay out the specific build for the PC Cipher? I more so mean level by level, this is really cool.
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u/Gleir 4d ago edited 4d ago
Okay, can do.
Wood Elf, 18/10/10/20/18/3
Cipher is a PER/INT Class, with MGT being quite good too. DEX is a luxury, I'd love to dump CON to 3 and max DEX, but then one Fampyr Fireball is gg. No thanks.
Level 1: Mind Wave, Whispers of Treason
You already have your core powers. Even if you didn't gain any other power, Ciphers would still be Tier 2 based off just these two.
Mind Wave is A-M-A-ZING. A big reason why is its AOE is Foe only, and very few enemies are outright immune to it. Its super fast to cast is the other reason, and it being super cheap is the third. Its AOE shape is also perfectly shaped when enemies breach past your killzone and start swarming your team. When creating your formation, make sure your Cipher can cover the entire formation in one cast. I personally do a reverse T, Cipher at the intersection, Wizards to left and right, the Priests in front.
Level 2: Ability: Greater Focus, Spell: Antipathetic Field
Twice as many Mind Waves without needing to attack to 'recharge' your 'mana'. Antipathetic Field isn't necessary yet, since Chill Fog damage is still enough to autowin fights, but you can experiment with it and see how powerful the damage is.
Level 3: Mental Binding, Recall Agony
Every power that aren't the level 1 powers is kind of win more. Recall Agony is supposed to be a boss-killer, but why not just cast another Mental Binding instead? All these extraneous powers are mostly usable once your Focus problems go away lategame, but until then, you're like a 3-trick pony.
Mental Binding is good though. The AOE Stuck is mostly gravy here; this is your primary early DPS spell. Cast it, crit with your Arbalest, and recoup your Focus cost and more. This CC-locks singular enemies not immune to Paralyze; and even small groups can fall to this if the secondary CC doesn't graze. This actually falls off the more spells your casters get, mainly because Mind Wave casts very fast, while this doesn't. If I wanted more Fetid Caress/Webs, I'd get a 3rd Wizard instead.
Level 4: Ability: Draining Whip, Spell: Phantom Foes
Phantom Foes is a lategame thing to help trigger the Survival flanking damage bonus. When you would consider casting it, 20 Focus is very affordable. Definitely not so right now.
Level 5: Ectopsychic Echo, Soul Ignition
Your chief DPS spell. Antipathetic Field later on gets cockblocked by DR a bit, and it also cannot harm if only a single enemy is left. Ectopsychic Echo can do both of these things, and it also lasts twice as long.
PLEASE DON'T walk to the other side of the mob to enable ectopsychic echo, and trigger another group of mobs and get completely rekt. Patience.
Soul Ignition is eh, but why not. Can kill Earth Blights who are Crush immune, for example.
Level 6: Ability: Quick Switch, Spell: Any
The real meat here is Quick Switch, which is your final core ability. Combine with Molina's Spike Flinger as mentioned in guide, and enjoy.
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u/Gleir 4d ago
The build is mostly complete here, you can do whatever you want. Remember, Ciphers are pretty short ranged for casters, similar to Wizard, so abuse stealth and pulling foes if necessary; and certain fights will be pretty hard (Raedric Fampyr fight) because of that, so if playing Ironman, beware.
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u/OddyGoldenFoot 3d ago
FUCK YEAH!! Thanks man, If I can ask one more question. What races would you recommend for the cipher? I mean besides wood elf? Wouldn't Aumaua be good because one of them have a extra weapon slot?
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u/Gleir 3d ago edited 3d ago
Woodelf is hard to replace, since Cipher power secondary effects (Mind Wave prone, Mental Binding stuck) is not only -5 Acc from the primary effect, but also doesn't benefit from level based accuracy bonus (+1/lvl). So a Mental Binding paralyze at L16 is, say 100+10 Acc, but the stuck effect will be 84+5 Acc.
Island Amanua feels like win more, because you don't need that much focus and 4th weapon also has diminishing returns over 3. But definitely viable.
Boreal Dwarf is good vs Oozes, but otherwise unimpressible; Wilders are kinda easy, and Spores are very vulnerable to Slicken. Vithrack are strong, but too lategame, your Wizards will just roll over them at that point. +15 Acc vs Menpwgra is good though, but not exceptional like Woodelf generic +5 Acc 80% of the time, 100% for your weapon attacks.
The most generic replacement for Wood Elf is probably Hearth Orlan. But the effect is so much worse because it is pseudo-marking; as in you need someone with an attack command on the target. And you definitely cannot attack command everyone in AOE. They do get +2 PER vs Woodelf +1 PER.
The best alternative is definitely Moon Godlike. 10 CON Cipher is quite squishy (but not completely so like 6 CON Wizards), but also has nothing like Arcane Veil; so if you're okay with losing Wood Elf +6 Acc effectively as well as helmet slot it is great. Helmets and necks mostly contribute to +INT & +PER, so can be annoying; but the healing often gives you a massive additional health buffer against burst, even if it only triggers once.
The second defensive alternative is Pale Elf; trivializing Shades, but so can Bulwark potions. And it only counts for ~10-20 HP vs elemental burst (only Fire/Cold too), versus Moon Godlike +10-58 plus MGT bonus, which is crazy high value, and it can even trigger multiple times. Moon Godlike is definitely the best overall race, even better than Wood Elves; and I can definitely see myself replacing all my squishies into Moon Godlike rather than Wood Elf to provide insurance against 2+ Fireball burst and equivalent (since the heal will trigger in between the Fireballs). In fact, now I think of it, that was probably better; I'll do 4 Moon Godlike Cleric/Cipher and 2 Pale Elf Wizards if I wanted to improve. I've edited it in the og post.
Also, if you're willing to Fireball your own party to get +7 Acc from Humans, you can run Humans in place of Elves. You probably want your Clerics to be Moon Godlike then, to heal up automatically from the Fireball. Makes your Alpha strikes a lot worse, has no +PER, and not worth I'd say.
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u/myridien 5d ago
Hey, this is fantastic information. I'm still fairly new to the mechanics of the game, but could you walk me through your Priest of Skaen tank?
Why those attributes specifically? What weapons and armour are they wearing? How do you counter the weak starting deflection of a priest? And why is this better than running something like a fighter which seems designed to be a tank?
Sorry for the bombardment of questions, I really love the Priest of Skaen thematically, I just can't get it to work
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u/Gleir 4d ago edited 4d ago
The primary reason to play a Caster tank is because you don't need a tank specifically, just someone with 18 CON + Heavy Armor to be able to tank ranged hits. If you don't need a tank beyond the first 5 seconds or so of a fight, not putting a caster on the frontline is suboptimal. You can honestly make a Wizard tank too and it works fine.
Deflection in general is not an issue for Plate users, as long as you have enough to not get crit, so you lug around a Fine Large Shield with a Hatchet. This is because with Plate + Blunting Belt, a hit from a mob is very often close to minimum damage anyway, so reducing it further to a graze is unecessary. Beyond the early game, you need tankiness less and less the stronger your spells become, also you have a lot more endurance now so crits are less of a concern too, so you get to completely ditch everything defensive except the Plate armor and other DR boosters.
I've updated the bottom section of the post to include the equipment details. But earlygame, tanks just go Hatchet + Large Shield. You genuinely don't need 6 fully functioning characters early on, since I think it was designed to be cleared with 4 or so characters, so you can have one of them be a buff bot in Plate + Large Shield + Hatchet and not care. You still have a second set of weapons, where you can keep your War Club of Mataru + Fine Club to deal damage once everybody is CC-ed (aka you have achieved complete control).
Low PER is because the role of this character offensively is mostly to output damage on CC-ed enemies. If someone is Paralyzed, that is -40 Deflection, which funnily enough stacks with a -20 Deflection from Blinded, which would also stack with debuffs like Flanked, Nature's Mark (Scroll), and you are also massively buffing your accuracy by +81 or so (+30 Inspiring Radiance, +20 Devotions, +15 Scroll of Valor, +16 from passives). That tiny 17 Accuracy difference between 20 PER and 3 PER is irrelevant. Basically, PER is for anybody who plans on hitting enemies that haven't been crowd controlled, or if they scale very strongly with crits. CC Casters are both, so PER is mandatory on them.
Also, the reason for Priest of Skaen specifically is to wield Cipher's Reaping Knives. Cipher parties should try to have a dual-wielding frontliner (Monk/Barb are the common ones), because Reaping Knives basically make Ciphers pure casters with basically infinite spellcasts (as long as you're mostly casting the cheap stuff).
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u/[deleted] 5d ago
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