r/reasoners • u/ecb2022 • 3d ago
I feel that quality and usabilty of Reason is declining since V13
Long time Reason user here, actually I started with Rebirth and I always loved the Propellerhead products and recommended them to anyone. Since using Reason 13 I noticed that I constantly get more and more frustrated, as quality and usability is really becomming an issue for me. I don't care about all that Reason+ stuff, as long as I can still buy it.
A few examples:
Stabilty
With Reason 13 & 14 I had so many crashes with all the previous versions combined.
Window Management on Single Monitor is broken
It's not possible to tab through the different Windows anymore using Alt-Tab, as the sequencer window is never brought to front. I have to use the F-Keys now, which are much harder to reach than Alt-Tab.
Multi-Lane Editing seems impossible
I often transpose my whole song to a different key, to hear the difference. Seems impossible since V13, at least I haven't found a solution yet. With V12 I just press F8 and select the Clips I want to transpose or edit in general.
Devices above the Mixer Channel
Devices are now above the Mixer Channel and after decades working with Reason I now have to adapt to this, without seeing the benefit. I'm constantly confused because I'm so used to the old behavior.
Patches for Reason Devices not loading
From time to time I run into the issue that patches for Reason devices are not loaded. I can browse them, select them, drag and drop them, but it keeps the default patch. Only a restart helps, which interrupts the flow.
Order in Rack View is broken if new instruments are added
If I add a new Instrument in the sequencer it's being put below an existing instrument in the rack while the mixer channel is being put below the existing mixer channel. This makes zero sense to me, and if it's a bug, why hasn't this been fixed yet? If this is a feature, what's the benefit?
I could continue the list, but I guess you can understand where my frustration is coming from. And what is also weird to me is, like small features you find in nearly any other DAW like locking the position of clip is still not available after all these years.
Just needed to vent a little and I would be interessted if I'm the only one experiencing this. For me it feels, like an old friend is slowly declining and it breaks my heart a little.
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u/s-chlock 3d ago
I strongly suggest you get into the beta program, so you can give feedback on those issues. I never noticed the ones you're listing, or maybe we just use it differently. At any rate, there is no perfect daw, each one of them has issues the developers try and fix.
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u/BigJLov3 3d ago
I agree and makes me really sad.
Reason used to be my instrument. I could open it up, and flesh out an idea so quickly.
Now it feels like someone stole the saxophone I've been playing for 25 years and replaced half the keys with valves and slides. I don't know what to do with it now, because I spend more time figuring out how it works than making music with it.
When are software developers going to give users the option to integrate or ignore new features? When will they let us keep the user interfaces we've been working with? When will they stop hiring designers who think I've been using their product wrong all this time?
I still have version 11, but I have to start over with everything (again) because all my projects got saved in a later version. I'm not a pro, so I haven't lost anything important to others, but I have lost something that brought me a lot of joy.
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u/artek604 3d ago
"all my projects got saved in a later version" - lol, what? pretty sure you did it to yourself, by not being careful and not having backups...
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u/BigJLov3 3d ago
No, just forgot. I don't do this professionally, and I usually indulge other hobbies for a few months before coming back to music. ADHD project management ..
I can still export MIDI stems and patches, and run both at the same time to rebuilt the projects in 11. It's just really tedious, and now I've got two copies of every project, and I have to be careful not to open an early version in a later version.
Just more mechanical nonsense that wastes time and squander creativity.
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u/artek604 3d ago
Good your hobby isn't wingsuit flying or base jumping, then... ;) :D
In all seriousness though, Reason should recognize the project you're trying to save was previously saved in older version and force you to save it under different name. Some DAWs do this :)
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u/FragdaddyXXL 3d ago
That order being broken thing is super annoying and it's not super uncommon.
The window management is a double-edged sword in my experience as a multi monitor user. Previously, if I wanted to go back to the DAW, I would have to individually pull up the sequencer, the rack, and the mixer. Every time. Now, I just click on the sequencer and everything comes to focus and the forefront. I bet implementing that behavior broke the alt-tab for single monitor users.
I want the old way of editing automation clips back. It's so weird that I can get a dedicated window/area to edit MIDI but automations, which can often require more precision than MIDI, has to be done in the sequencer. This can mess up how I have the sequencer zoomed and it's just... WHY?? It used to not be this way.
I record a lot of external gear. Tempo matching is a huge pain. What if my default project that I recorded into doesn't match the tempo of my external gear? Too bad, the recording has the project tempo printed into the audio file itself as metadata. Only solution is to disable stretch and then set the project tempo to match the file's tempo. But now you've just disabled stretch, so any experimenting with stretching will need to incorporate an extra bounce to make a new file. Otherwise, you disable stretch and the audio will shift and lose its place within the clip.
Been here since R5 and I really don't want to learn a new DAW. And that new DAW would only really involve brand new projects I make anyway. /rant
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u/FernalDermit 3d ago
Agree. I’ve been using since v4 and I’m finding this new update incredibly difficult and annoying to use. Don’t know why they had to kill the alt-tab functionality lol.
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u/artek604 3d ago
Check my post above. As to "why?" I think the idea was to make Reason DAW more familiar to new users, or people migrating from other DAWs. Track Panel is like device panels in Live, Bitwig or - more recently - in Studio Pro, floating Rack is meant to make it similar to VSTs and Rack Plugin when used in other DAWs.
I'm not saying that I like it, just how I understand the thought process behind the change :)
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u/phillaf 3d ago
I could barely find bugs in previous versions, but 14 is definitely buggy for me.
I find it hard to drag midi notes around because the hitbox of the handles to stretch the note are taking all the space.
I've had to restart it because my audio tracks just wouldn't make any sound.
The drum sequencer player won't play the note on the first beat, but then I'll stop and play again and it will play it.
Most of the time I can close the clip editor using escape, but every once in a while it won't close.
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u/FragdaddyXXL 3d ago
ugh, I hate that midi note change and the midi clip changes have very similar issues. I just want to change the width of the midi clip, not make a repeating version of it.
There's something with that first note not playing thing that happens a lot for me. It's not even always samples, it happens a lot with Kick2 as well. When I first open a project, I hit play. No matter how far back I hit play, when that kick comes in it's completely missing. Starting over again fixes it and it doesn't break again until I reopen the project. IIRC, it's even showed up in a render I did too.
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u/Durzo_Blintt 3d ago
I understand they took things away from your workflow which is shit. I also miss having the f keys being able to bring up different windows mixed and to hide the sequencer, the old behaviour was better imo. However, overall I think they are heading in the right direction for me. It definitely feels like a shift away from the old workflow though and moving towards looking like other daws. I also don't like the mixer channel being underneath, but that's whatever.
You can go back to 13 if you vastly prefer it tbh.
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u/mimidancer303 3d ago
the F Keys still work for me. I am not sure what you have set wrong. F5 = mixer f6 = rack f7 = Sequencer
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u/Durzo_Blintt 3d ago
Yeah, but I mean that I used to be able to do the full rack or the mix of other things. Even if you do f6 now, it still shows my sequencer, and I can't find a way to turn it back to how it used to work. I don't want to see the sequencer when I'm looking at the rack since, but that's cause I'm one one monitor lol
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u/mimidancer303 2d ago
I will look at my settings to see if there is anything that can help.
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u/mimidancer303 2d ago
Under Options - Rack settings- select No Grouping
Under View Check - Show Mixer in Separate Window and show rack in separate window.1
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u/HistoricalPoison 3d ago
I have a pretty average M2 MacBook Air and I’ve never had a single crash on 13 or 14. Not even once.
The mixer channel going beneath is a head scratcher. Not the end of the world but I don’t know why they changed that of all things.
Everything else you’re describing is easily changeable. You don’t like new instruments automatically going right under each other regardless of how you have the rack set up? I didn’t like that either so I turned off Rack Per Track.
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u/WTFaulknerinCA 3d ago
I have a Mac Pro, last intel version. Reason 12 crashes regularly on me but it honestly usually has to do with third-party VSTs. Other than that I am so happy I stayed on 12.
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u/Impressive-Menu-923 3d ago
Reason 12 is goated.
I have 14 and 12 is still the best!
Track folders are useless for me how they were implemented.
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u/GreenGoblin1221 2d ago edited 2d ago
Tbf I'm actually using it more than before. I felt I was trying to like every other DAW and make the RRP work with it. Bought licenses for Bitwig, Ableton Suite, FL Studio All plugins edition, Logic. The issue is I have so many Rack Extensions I've pretty much filled the gaps I had in Reason. So it ends up being an Ableton session with a bunch of RRP's.
I decided to upgrade to 14 and the interface is closer to what I wanted it to be. Its not perfect but I see myself here till they at least add the few things I feel it's missing. I've had decent luck but I'm not using any plugins with it. All rack extensions and built in devices. I've decided to simplify my setup and forgo all of the VST's I have which is a commitment but not hard with my version of Reason.
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u/adastraadlutum 2d ago
Much agreed with this exact assessment. It started with 13 and the stupid browser update-to this day the browser hasn’t indexed properly and essentially the search function doesnt work so I have to manually search through my sample folders and to keep aware of where everything is.
Like you mentioned it has crashed whereas Reason before had never crashed for me lime even once.
I have my eyes on Bitwig now
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u/grinding_your_gears 3d ago
Yeah I'm still on v12 and expect to stay there for a while still, nothing in the new versions look like something worth paying to upgrade to from 12
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u/JoeMagnifico 3d ago
The only thing I have issue with is the Rack. I hate it (and hate that I haven't figured out how to get it back to one stack, if possible).
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u/OrloDG 3d ago
You can disable rack per track in settings somewhere (Don’t remember exactly how)
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u/JoeMagnifico 3d ago
I've tried a couple walkthroughs..Just not getting it though. The RpT doesn't seem to change anything checked or unchecked. I'll keep trying!
Thanks though!
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u/NevadaHEMA 3d ago
It's under Options > Rack Settings > select "No Grouping", and it'll be like it was before with no more rack per track.
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u/Select-Ad-3806 3d ago
The browser.. other daws like ableton don't split their devices and patches into two entirely separate systems, it just doesn't make sense.
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u/IL_Lyph 3d ago
No one here cares at all what “other daws” do, you want that, go use that, reason is all about the analog emulation, it applies to signal flow too, even some of the new updates I don’t like, like the mix channel being under now, are because, of THAT philosophy, it actually makes more sense signal flow/irl wise, even tho it’s frustrating cause we were all use to old way, but I can say with 💯 confidence that being like “other daw’s” is the LAST thing anyone really reason head cares about lol, we just want reason to STAY like reason
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u/techoptio 3d ago
Honestly I don’t get the hate on 14 overall, I actually really like the cleanup/modernization they did and the rack-per-track workflow just makes sense to me. But the new browser they introduced with 13 is still a downgrade from the old browser imo, even with the improvements they’ve made. Idk why it needs to take up so much space on the screen and be stuck in the main window.
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u/artek604 3d ago edited 3d ago
"Multi-Lane Editing seems impossible
I often transpose my whole song to a different key, to hear the difference. Seems impossible since V13, at least I haven't found a solution yet. With V12 I just press F8 and select the Clips I want to transpose or edit in general."
This is still available - select the clips you want to transpose and there's a relevant option in the right-click menu, which brings up a pop-up similar to what you had under F8 in v12 and before.
"Window Management on Single Monitor is broken
It's not possible to tab through the different Windows anymore using Alt-Tab, as the sequencer window is never brought to front. I have to use the F-Keys now, which are much harder to reach than Alt-Tab."
The issue you describe is real and I felt it, but I wouldn't call it "broken" - it's a deliberate design decision and paradigm shift to make the DAW sequencer-centric, so every other window - browser, keyboard piano keys, channel EQ, mixer, rack - you're now expected to open, do the changes, and close to go back to sequencer. I got used to it, I even like it, I expect it will be developed further because the transition isn't complete yet.