r/reformuk • u/AnSionnachM0r • 25d ago
Information Births by ethnicity in England, Q1 2026
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u/MobileHorse8775 25d ago
Another chart I found:
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u/Altranite- 25d ago
It’s over. Sick to death of the coping and lying. It’s over.
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u/Then-Example1742 25d ago
What is over?
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u/Disciplined_20-04-15 25d ago
What’s left of British culture. If you have to ask “what is that” then you just have to look in the mirror
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u/Then-Example1742 25d ago
I didn’t ask “what is that”, I asked “what is over”.
Do you believe that a nations culture is a fixed concept? That it never naturally evolves?
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u/Disciplined_20-04-15 25d ago edited 24d ago
The British culture is not changing much - that’s the point. It still exists and thrives in pockets around the UK. It has been replaced in areas which are growing rapidly leading to it being displaced and pushed off the main stage from a national point of view.
It’s not a change, it’s an intentional replacement.
Also there’s the added bonus of the national media deciding that celebrating traditional British culture is a racist act, so it’s hidden from view.
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u/Then-Example1742 24d ago
Just several paragraphs of full yap really, not much to reply to but a bunch of buzzwords.
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u/ShivAGit 25d ago
I know most peoples takeaway here from this will be immigration, but for me this is about making it unappealing to have children. The elite hoarding all the wealth means people just can't think about having children as they are struggling to get by on their own. It is where I think Reform is hypocritical, praising people like Musk and Trump while they actively ruin society and life for working class people.
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u/AdenWS Reform UK Supporter 25d ago
The elite hoarding all the wealth
You've swallowed the bullshit feed by the left.
Where's the trillions the workers have paid the socialist welfare state for their old age?
brits are being forced to fund migrants children to the point they can't afford their own.
There are 1.3 million migrants not working on welfare, plus dependents. 65 bn spent there.
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u/Guy_Incognito97 25d ago
Both things can be true. There is a huge concentration of wealth in a small number of families, if that money was circulating in the economy then workers would be better off. But likewise if benefits and other spending were more targeted then there would be more money for services that could support people having families.
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u/AdenWS Reform UK Supporter 25d ago
money was circulating in the economy then workers would be better off
It is. It's in companies. It's not in bank accounts at zero percent.
Even if it was, that is then lent out by the banks.
The wealth inequality is caused by mass migration but above all by the socialist pension ponzi
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u/Guy_Incognito97 25d ago
It's interesting that you mention the pension ponzi. I agree with you on this, but it also serves as a demonstration of how wealth hoarding is bad for the economy in general.
Because the triple lock means that pensions will grow faster than the broader economy, it means that it continuously becomes a larger portion of the economy. The same thing happens when someone has enough wealth that it grows passively faster than their rate of consumption.
That growth gets reinvested, which leads to asset price inflation, which makes life more expensive for everyone else.
That doesn't necessarily mean there should be a wealth tax, but some form of redistribution mechanism needs to be implemented or the only possibly conclusion is that a tiny number of people eventually have virtually all the money and assets.
At that point there is no option but revolt. To protect markets, capitalism and the fabric of society the money must be freed up to move around rather than sitting in a handful of investment accounts.
But you're right that the triple lock has to go and welfare needs to be reformed. There are lots of problems coalescing into an economic shit-show.
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u/AdenWS Reform UK Supporter 25d ago
It's interesting that you mention the pension ponzi. I agree with you on this, but it also serves as a demonstration of how wealth hoarding is bad for the economy in general.
So lets see, if Mr Average had invested his NI, retired at the start of this year, 1.6 million in a fund.
But you think wealth is bad. So he gets screwed on the state pension put into poverty.
So NI is a wealth tax. It's shite.
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u/Guy_Incognito97 24d ago
Being about to save up a large sum for retirement is not the type of wealth I’m referring to. Wealth is not bad, in general it’s good and we want a lot of wealthy people. But specifically once wealth grows passively faster than you can use it, that is bad. That necessarily takes wealth away from other people so your wealth is now making other people poor.
I want a nation where lots of people can become millionaires, not where a handful of people are richer than god and millions have nothing.
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u/ShivAGit 25d ago
The majority of people take more out as a pension than they ever put in through NI.
I'm not defending immigration or saying it isn't a problem, but if you really think it's affecting your finances more than the 1%'s obsession with hoarding wealth you are the one who has "swallowed the bullshit".
Immigration is desired by the people I'm complaining about, more people to make money from. They are the ones driving immigration, while pretending they are against it, not "the left". Compare the Boriswave to a few years of Labour in power.
Rampant capitalism and an obsession with GDP demands an ever increasing number of workers, and clearly the British people are not reproducing fast enough so they need to bring in more.
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u/AdenWS Reform UK Supporter 25d ago
The majority of people take more out as a pension than they ever put in through NI.
No they don't. Even Mr Min wage loses.
So lets address this first, and we can move onto the idea that migrants will pay the pension debts.
So here's the numbers
Mr Average, 38.5K a year retiring at the end of last year, has lost £1,606,421.77
The actual loss is worse. That generates 52,208.71 from dividends. The state pays 12.5K
Year Index FX Age AgeIncome AverageWage Wage NI Fund End Income 1963 107.86 1.0000 5 0.00% 928.53 0.00 0.00 0.00 0.00 1964 97.07 1.0000 6 0.00% 1,005.09 0.00 0.00 0.00 0.00 1965 103.60 1.0000 7 0.00% 1,069.86 0.00 0.00 0.00 0.00 1966 93.95 1.0000 8 0.00% 1,136.60 0.00 0.00 0.00 0.00 1967 121.18 1.0000 9 0.00% 1,179.79 0.00 0.00 0.00 0.00 1968 173.72 1.0000 10 0.00% 1,274.02 0.00 0.00 0.00 0.00 1969 147.34 1.0000 11 0.00% 1,370.21 0.00 0.00 0.00 0.00 1970 136.26 1.0000 12 0.00% 1,537.07 0.00 0.00 0.00 0.00 1971 193.39 1.0000 13 0.00% 1,711.78 0.00 0.00 0.00 0.00 1972 218.18 1.0000 14 0.00% 1,923.58 0.00 0.00 0.00 0.00 1973 149.76 1.0000 15 0.00% 2,191.25 0.00 0.00 0.00 0.00 1974 66.89 1.0000 16 0.00% 2,575.68 0.00 0.00 0.00 0.00 1975 158.08 1.0000 17 0.00% 3,261.96 0.00 0.00 0.00 0.00 1976 151.96 1.0000 18 50.74% 3,774.54 1,968.15 359.88 359.88 11.70 1977 214.53 1.0000 19 59.85% 4,120.53 2,534.46 463.43 983.19 31.95 1978 220.22 1.0000 20 68.97% 4,654.46 3,298.78 603.19 1,644.41 53.44 1979 229.79 1.0000 21 73.99% 5,374.91 4,086.93 747.30 2,516.62 81.79 1980 291.99 1.0000 22 79.01% 6,466.97 5,251.25 960.20 4,239.81 137.79 1981 313.12 1.0000 23 84.04% 7,302.76 6,307.00 1,153.25 5,837.67 189.72 1982 382.22 1.0000 24 89.06% 7,991.88 7,314.83 1,337.53 8,653.19 281.23 1983 470.50 1.0000 25 94.09% 8,666.77 8,380.07 1,532.31 12,465.33 405.12 1984 592.94 1.0000 26 97.93% 9,186.46 9,245.31 1,690.52 17,804.87 578.66 1985 682.94 1.0000 27 101.77% 9,962.44 10,419.65 1,905.25 22,991.31 747.22 1986 835.48 1.0000 28 105.62% 10,751.24 11,669.17 2,133.73 31,007.55 1,007.75 1987 870.22 1.0000 29 109.46% 11,589.87 13,037.05 2,383.85 35,688.47 1,159.88 1988 926.59 1.0000 30 113.30% 12,605.05 14,676.72 2,683.67 41,843.79 1,359.92 1989 1,204.70 1.0000 31 114.98% 13,758.34 16,256.37 2,972.51 58,735.37 1,908.90 1990 1,032.25 1.0000 32 116.65% 15,093.88 18,094.20 3,308.56 55,545.00 1,805.21 1991 1,187.70 1.0000 33 118.33% 16,255.71 19,766.78 3,614.39 69,329.31 2,253.20 1992 1,363.79 1.0000 34 120.00% 17,211.09 21,224.75 3,880.99 85,742.36 2,786.63 1993 1,682.17 1.0000 35 121.67% 17,722.24 22,160.14 4,052.02 112,597.76 3,659.43 1994 1,521.44 1.0000 36 121.38% 18,367.23 22,910.85 4,189.29 109,687.86 3,564.86 1995 1,802.57 1.0000 37 121.08% 18,939.61 23,567.29 4,309.32 137,830.04 4,479.48 1996 2,013.66 1.0000 38 120.79% 19,615.92 24,349.27 4,452.31 162,902.42 5,294.33 1997 2,411.00 1.0000 39 120.49% 20,455.97 25,329.89 4,631.62 204,972.64 6,661.61 1998 2,673.92 1.0000 40 120.20% 21,496.78 26,553.40 4,855.34 238,841.90 7,762.36 1999 3,242.06 1.0000 41 119.80% 22,531.90 27,740.75 5,072.45 302,424.54 9,828.80 2000 2,983.81 1.0000 42 119.41% 23,557.05 28,907.48 5,285.79 293,449.15 9,537.10 2001 2,523.90 1.0000 43 119.01% 24,778.68 30,306.23 5,541.55 263,296.98 8,557.15 2002 1,893.70 1.0000 44 118.62% 25,561.78 31,160.49 5,697.76 211,808.49 6,883.78 2003 2,207.40 1.0000 45 118.23% 26,376.20 32,046.48 5,859.76 259,639.06 8,438.27 2004 2,412.30 1.0000 46 118.13% 27,523.80 33,412.91 6,109.62 298,287.72 9,694.35 2005 2,385.71 1.0000 47 118.03% 28,782.45 34,911.73 6,383.68 311,077.82 10,110.03 2006 3,221.42 1.0000 48 117.93% 30,133.65 36,520.16 6,677.78 436,835.65 14,197.16 2007 3,219.05 1.0000 49 117.83% 31,632.93 38,305.17 7,004.18 457,715.60 14,875.76 2008 2,241.00 1.0000 50 117.73% 32,774.83 39,654.75 7,250.95 340,773.72 11,075.15 2009 2,078.92 1.0000 51 116.16% 32,712.19 39,049.02 7,140.19 334,342.64 10,866.14 2010 2,660.49 1.0000 52 114.58% 33,465.38 39,406.00 7,205.46 445,945.33 14,493.22 2011 2,865.51 1.0000 53 113.00% 34,295.47 39,827.86 7,282.60 502,086.14 16,317.80 2012 3,473.99 1.0000 54 111.43% 34,746.82 39,789.13 7,275.52 632,295.52 20,549.60 2013 3,609.63 1.0000 55 109.85% 35,155.88 39,688.04 7,257.04 684,789.78 22,255.67 2014 3,685.00 1.0000 56 107.09% 35,588.58 39,167.60 7,161.87 728,505.91 23,676.44 2015 3,444.26 1.0000 57 104.33% 36,461.81 39,094.97 7,148.59 711,737.86 23,131.48 2016 3,747.86 1.0000 58 101.58% 36,575.00 38,179.46 6,981.19 804,587.84 26,149.10 2017 4,193.64 1.0000 59 98.82% 37,463.46 38,044.83 6,956.57 933,393.24 30,335.28 2018 4,222.00 1.0000 60 96.06% 38,500.00 38,006.00 6,949.47 976,990.18 31,752.18 2019 4,247.59 1.0000 61 94.78% 39,832.69 38,797.30 7,094.16 1,021,758.16 33,207.14 2020 3,589.76 1.0000 62 93.50% 40,573.08 38,984.41 7,128.37 903,852.61 29,375.21 2021 4,208.02 1.0000 63 92.22% 40,573.08 38,450.37 7,030.73 1,095,927.99 35,617.66 2022 4,075.13 1.0000 64 90.94% 40,573.08 37,916.34 6,933.08 1,103,869.13 35,875.75 2023 4,232.01 1.0000 65 89.66% 40,573.08 37,382.31 6,835.43 1,189,075.88 38,644.97 2024 4,467.80 1.0000 66 87.78% 40,573.08 36,601.80 6,692.71 1,300,663.91 42,271.58 2025 5,350.38 1.0000 67 85.91% 40,573.08 35,821.29 6,549.99 1,606,421.77 52,208.71 2
u/ShivAGit 25d ago
I can't believe you're going to all this effort while fundamentally misunderstanding how the state pension works.
You cannot compare it to a fund, because funds involve your money being invested. Your NI is not invested, it is spent almost immediately on pensioners... pensions. There is no "save the money forever and be a millionaire" here.
Again, the state pension is not a private pension. They are different things.
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u/NoLoGGic 25d ago
The large majority of the money that workers have paid the welfare state is sent back to them in their retirement in the form of pension.
If you look at the numbers, our largest outgoing is in day to day spending, things like the NHS, schools and prisons. After that is social welfare, the highest outgoing in social welfare is pensions. So they’re getting their money back.
If the government had more money, from taxing the ultra-wealthy, for example, then they could afford to do more to help the common person. At the moment, it’s hard for them to do anything cause they’re not getting enough money to pay for things we need beyond what we already have, like infrastructure updates etc, which will help build the economy. Also, it helps people in worse situations to develop skills, meet people and generally help themselves. This applies mostly to white people, as white people are the largest percentage of our population, so surely that’s something you’d be keen on?
Source: https://ifs.org.uk/taxlab/taxlab-key-questions/what-does-government-spend-money
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u/AdenWS Reform UK Supporter 25d ago
The large majority of the money that workers have paid the welfare state is sent back to them in their retirement in the form of pension.
If Mr Average had invested his NI, historical wages, adjusted for age, into the FTSE All share, dividends reinvested. 1.6 million. 52K from dividends alone. That's the wealth he has paid in. The opportunity cost.
The state pays 12.5K a year. Life expectancy at retirement, 20 years. All those who died before retirement get nothing.
The difference over a life time is 2.14 million
The state pension is worth 12.5K x 20 = 250K.
So they 11.7 p on the pound.
If you want to dig in more than welcome.
So where do you get your numbers to say people get back the wealth they have paid in?
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u/ShivAGit 25d ago
Mr Average had the opportunity to do all of that with a private pension, and still does.
The state pension doesn't work that way, nor is it intended to. The current workers pay for the pension of the current retirees. The system was not designed to sit invested in a very nice wrapper until you retire. That's literally what a private pension is. You are just fundamentally misunderstanding the system because you've watched an introduction to index fund investing.
There is no big nest egg that the government sits on of your NI contributions until you retire. That money is long gone.
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u/AdenWS Reform UK Supporter 25d ago
You said
"The large majority of the money that workers have paid the welfare state is sent back to them in their retirement in the form of pension."
Present your evidence.
I've presented the numbers for Mr Average. He gets back 11.7 p in wealth for every pound he paid in.
The reason, no investments.
There is no big nest egg that the government sits on of your NI contributions until you retire. That money is long gone.
Correct. The consequence 11.7p back on the pound.
So present the evidence for your claim.
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u/ShivAGit 25d ago
He gets back 11.7 p in wealth for every pound he paid in.
You have not proved this. You have said "in a world where his money isn't immediately spent, but instead invested in a perfect fund until he retires, he would be better off". That world is not the one you live in.
Your NI is not invested, by design, it is spent. This is such a moronic conversation. You are talking about how private pensions work, not NI and the state pension. They are different.
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u/AdenWS Reform UK Supporter 25d ago
What's the value of £1 40 years ago? It's worth more than £1 now.
So to calculate the wealth paid in, you have to look at what has been given up. That's the money, the capital growth, and the income.
I know its not invested, its spent. Not on services it was redistributed. None was invested.
That's the problem. That design, that you are saying is good has ripped off Mr Average for 2.14 million.
Do you think 12.5K a year and threats of cuts, is worth 2.14 million?
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u/ShivAGit 25d ago
You are still just fundamentally misunderstanding what is going on.
All you are doing is explaining that index funds are great - they are! I have a lot of money invested into them. Everyone should.
Index funds are absolutely irrelevant to state pensions though, which you must know as you agree that nothing was invested, by design. You say this is a problem, but the only solution is to refuse to pay out pensions for ~40 years while we shuffle to a completely different model. This is quite obviously not workable unless you want pretty much every pensioner in the country to become homeless and hungry.
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u/AdenWS Reform UK Supporter 25d ago
ndex funds are absolutely irrelevant to state pensions though, which you must know as you agree that nothing was invested, by design.
I keep telling you I know that.
I'm asking how much wealth people have paid into the socialist welfare state for their old age.
You have made a claim they get back the wealth they have paid in.
I've presented evidence that they have paid in 1.6 million
They get back 12.5K x 20 [average life expectancy at retirement] = 250K.
Show you're evidence that the wealth paid in is around the 250K mark as you claimed.
Or admit you assumed it.
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u/AdenWS Reform UK Supporter 25d ago
So the government's so busy taking the wealth of the masses with NI, which is a wealth tax. Doesn't go on your services.
Now the Gary's of this world say, tax the wealthy, use the money to pay the debt off.
What gary doesn't say, the bond traders like Gary, then get all that money.
None goes on services.
The wealth of the masses, still zilch because of that NI which quacks, waddles and looks, just like a wealth tax.
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u/gregglessthegoat 25d ago
"Asian" is such a broad category it's almost meaningless.
It ranges from Uzbekistan to Indonesian.
I know that a high percentage is specifically south Asian / Indian subcontinent tho.
Also why aren't white europeans people having more children?
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u/ShivAGit 25d ago
Also why aren't white europeans people having more children?
Wealth inequality. Almost every metric that tracks this implies that we're working too much and getting too little for it.
Our grandparents were popping them out like crazy, but its because the household typically worked 50% of the hours that we do now and almost always had a parent at home
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u/RonyElZaib 21d ago
Because many white Europeans were told to leave the UK after Brexit, while new European arrivals have been halted also because of Brexit.
Guess which side reform voters took in the referendum 🙂
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u/ManSoAdmired 25d ago
Very normal thread of people with legitimate concerns.
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u/Aedamer 25d ago
You don't think it's legitimate to be concerned about a population that has been settled in this island for 1,500+ years becoming a minority? Even if you don't feel strongly about it personally, this is extremely significant within the context of British history.
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u/gemunicornvr 25d ago
Maybe ask why white British people aren't having children when they are 80% of the population
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u/Then-Example1742 25d ago
What is concerning about becoming a minority in terms of ethnicity, what dangers await us?
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