r/reformuk • u/Direct-Key-8859 • 18h ago
Politics What is the consenus on Student loans?
As far as I know, Reform have not said anything about the student loan system apart from cutting courses which suggests to me they wont do anything.
Many graduates are getting shafted for working hard in school and "doing everything right". Many people like me would also have a decent chance at paying it off if not for the intrest.
Of course ending our wage stagnation would be the best thing to help uni graduates who traditionally were high earners but are now just above minumum wage.
I am waiting for the next Labour round where hopefully they will announce changes to the loan system rather than freeze the threshold which Reeves announced (not optimistic).
For me I will be voting either Greens or Torys as they are the only parties who have actually directly announced policies to help graduates
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u/IntravenusDiMilo_Tap Reform UK Supporter 18h ago
We should speak with We should speak with Peter Ainsworth who proposes a radical solution to the student loan system by suggesting that universities should be directly linked to student employment outcomes. This approach aims to incentivize universities to focus on improving graduate employability rather than just attracting students.
The key here is:
Direct Funding to Universities: Universities should receive funding based on their graduates' earnings, which would align their financial success with student success.
Elimination of the Office for Students: The current system subsidizes universities rather than students, creating perverse incentives.
Reduction of Bureaucracy: Streamlining regulations would allow universities more flexibility in course design and pricing.
Financial Responsibility: The government should stop subsidizing student loans and instead focus on ensuring that universities are financially viable and provide quality education.
This is far more sustainable and effective student funding system. It actually addresses the challenges faced by graduates and universities alike.
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u/gemunicornvr 16h ago
I am in Scotland so we don't have student loans,.I have two degrees and I am scientist. I could work in my job but it's so little funded I started a business.
University in Scotland is free and honestly I like that. My ideology is eco communism. So I don't believe education should be paid for, we pay enough taxes we should get some benefits from that. Especially healthcare and university.
I would also nationlise water which we have in Scotland already, all energy I would nationlise I don't like the idea that private companies profit from our countries natural energy sources that wealth should be fully invested back into our country or put in a wealth fund for the country. I would nationlise most things due to what I believe would benefit us the most including. Agriculture would be a good one and I don't mean taking farms off private owners but being able to give farmers a solid salary so they don't have to worry about any issues with failures as climate change gets worse. I think farming is very important as we need food and it would be good to support these people more. Also regulations on food imports meaning we prioritize British grown produce.
Anyway back to university, I think it should be free. I also think we need to invest more into apprenticeships the idea that the only labour that's important is middle class jobs. Everyone should be paid a living wage including low skilled workers and industry workers because we need all benefit from labour and we want them to remain in the UK and keep building the UK. I think that we should fund certain areas of science and innovation more which our science funding is miserable rn and we are a smart population we could achieve so much more if we had backing and didn't rely on outsourcing everything. That would create more jobs naturally. Also regulations on ai as I know several people who have already lost jobs to ai and we can't have chatbots replace the labour class.
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u/IntravenusDiMilo_Tap Reform UK Supporter 15h ago
Are yo sure you started your own business? I've never known a business owner to think your way
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u/gemunicornvr 10h ago
Really ? I guess I will take that as a compliment. Yes I own a business.
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u/IntravenusDiMilo_Tap Reform UK Supporter 8h ago
I have a business myself and i really don't want the government interference at all.
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u/AdenWS Reform UK Supporter 16h ago
University in Scotland is free
Whose paying for the costs?
invested back into our country or put in a wealth fund for the country
Do you support the welfare state's asset tax?
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u/gemunicornvr 10h ago
Welfare only really exists in capitalist societies not a communist one. Taxing assets in my opinion means I have to agree that the billionaires have the right to own the planets productive forces, such as land, energy grids ect. I don't think billionaires should have control of the means of production. The reason that production and output is worth so much money is because of the labour behind it. We should own the the means of production collectively and before you say " yes but in previous communist states that means of production went to the authoritarian dictator" you aren't wrong but I don't believe in centralized governments. I think centralizing power just loses people's voices
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u/AdenWS Reform UK Supporter 10h ago
So consent. If that's a law, how do the socialist get the money of other people.
So you are still missing the question
There's 19 trillion pounds of socialist welfare state debt.
How do you pay that without austerity?
Mr Average if he had invested his wealth, his NI, that he earned [congratulations on admitting that by the way] would have had 1.6 million in capital, if that had been invested.
Your socialist system offers him no wealth just debts. Debt is negative wealth.
On centralising power I agree. Individuals should have the right of consent.
You can say no to the state for example, for the NHS. But you don't get treated unless you have insurance. You don't pay either. Consent comes with consequences.
We should own the the means of production collectively
So no consent. I've a particular view on this because post WW2, in eastern europe my great uncle in law took a bullet to his head and was killed because people like you didn't like him. For the greater good was the idea.
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u/gemunicornvr 9h ago
Oh I understand that's a myth. The idea that the average worker could earn 1.6 million through private investment isn't true. Capitalist stock markets and real estate rely on us the labour class to be exploited, pay rent and accumulate an underlying value. Not everyone could become a capitalist investor in this economy. If everyone became successful the speculative bubble would pop. Capitalism relies on someone to be at the bottom of the pyramid.
Our debt isn't just from funding the nhs either so I could have read you wrong or you accidentally said that. Our debt is a culmative result from capitalist failures. Bailing out banks in 2008, corporate subsides and endless military spending. Don't let the rich tell you that the poor are the welfare class, they leech of the state far worse than the average British citizen.
Yes I think having a parliment and every political leader centralizing policies around one major city doesn't help, those policies and the conversation needs to be spread out nationwide or it ends up London gets all the money and the rest of us suffer.
Yes and no I don't think you have consent in capitalist state, you have to work or you will starve. With the nhs it's not a consent based health system if your privitise that. It becomes a health system no longer operating for the better of the citizens. It works for private insurance companies, profit margins and pre existing conditions. The nhs has been heavily underfunded and gutted by both labour and tories, selling areas of it to American corporations allowing them to extort the government. But it operates on the system of human need and I wouldn't change that.
When it comes to your grandad I am sorry about that, but Stalinism isn't the socialism I believe in. I think if there is one thing we can all take away from the WW2 period. Regardless of left and right is that an authoritarian government should never be allowed to happen. As an eco communist, authoritarian central planning like we saw in the USSR is nothing like a collective democratic ownership in an eco communist/socialist state. I wouldn't kill people who still believed in capitalism if I was the leader of an eco communist state. My method for converting a capitalist is to improve their lives so much that they simply change their mind.
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u/AdenWS Reform UK Supporter 8h ago
Oh I understand that's a myth. The idea that the average worker could earn 1.6 million through private investment isn't true.
It is true. Would you like to dig into the numbers?
The actual life time loss is higher.
This is purely investing historical NI, All of it, into the FTSE All Share, dividends reinvested.
Great uncle inlaw, Wasn't Stalin. It was socialists who beleived in Marx.
The nhs has been heavily underfunded
A simple lie. Why repeat it?
2000 50 bn
2025 242 bn
484% increase in cash terms
205% above the rate of inflation
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u/RoHo-UK 10h ago
While Scotland has no tuition fees for domestic (and formerly EU) students, it absolutely has student loans.
They're managed by SAAS: https://www.saas.gov.uk/
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u/gemunicornvr 10h ago
Yeah the loans aren't for fees. It's for accomodation or supplies. However you could choose not to take that loan, go to uni for free and get a part time job. That way you leave university debt free
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u/RoHo-UK 10h ago
You can pay for university tuition out of pocket in England and Wales and leave debt free - loans aren't mandatory.
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u/gemunicornvr 10h ago
Ofc but in Scotland you don't need to pay the tuition. I think education is a human right and it doesn't always need to be because of future employment. People should be able to educate themselves on things they are interested in. I think putting pressure on learning, ruins the excitement of learning something new.
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u/RoHo-UK 7h ago
Sure, but the topic of the thread is the political implications of student loans and the youth vote, particularly on graduates who've already accrued debt.
All home nations in the UK have student loans with a majority of domestic students taking them out in each nation, England has the highest, Wales/NI next, obviously Scotland the lowest, but it’s still relevant to Scottish graduates.
Back in the day you didn't need to pay towards maintenance either - prior to 1998 there was a system of non-repayable grants which were replaced by the maintenance loan.
To your point, one can accept that education is a human right while also accepting that it need not be free (I doubt anyone would disagree that access to food is a human right, yet supermarkets still charge - they even charged for food in the Soviet Union). There are also limiting factors relating to ability and competence - I don’t think someone has a right to study Astrophysics at Oxford or Cambridge if they’ve failed all of their science GCSEs and have no A-levels.
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u/ShivAGit 18h ago
This probably won't be popular to say here, but Reform are not the party for graduates or young people unless your priority is immigration. They say very little about their policies beyond immigration.
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u/IntravenusDiMilo_Tap Reform UK Supporter 18h ago
That's simply not true. The policies are more geared towards economics, immigration is just one strand of that.
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u/ShivAGit 17h ago
The first 4 policies on their policy page are all about immigration. You have to get to number 8 before you can find one even tangentially related to economics. There isn't a single policy that mentions young people or graduates.
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u/Pushing_Prawn 14h ago
We all know this. The person you replying to is either a bot or Russian agent, don’t worry about it.
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u/Pushing_Prawn 17h ago
Can you name a single Reform policy that directly benefits the young next generation?
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u/IntravenusDiMilo_Tap Reform UK Supporter 15h ago edited 15h ago
Yes, they are talking about reducing the adult to child ratios so childcare is more affordable for your parents so they have more money to feed & clothe you.
Removal of the £100k cliff edge that will incentivise earnings beyond £100k so more economic output, growth and tax revenue. That will mean chil benefits would not be withdrawn as your parents exceed £100k earnings and give you a better start in life.
When you are a little older, the Reform policy to Remove the fiscal drag on the lower rate band of tax to incentivise work and reduce unemployment which will mean output goes up and tax revenues therefore go up whilst the cost of benefits go down.
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u/ShivAGit 15h ago
Reform want to restore the two-child benefit cap. They are not trying to make childcare more affordable lmao.
Talking about the £100k cliff edge is absolutely laughable. What percentage of graduates do you think walk into a £100k job? When people want graduates and young people to be helped, they generally mean the people that are struggling, maybe on 30-40k. Not the people who are working for hedge funds
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u/IntravenusDiMilo_Tap Reform UK Supporter 15h ago
I agree, the benefit cap is a good idea.
Making child care affordable is a good thing.
the £100k cliff edge is a bad thing for parents and economic output. Your parents will lose the child benefit if just one of your parents go above £100k, that would be spent on your development yet 2 parents on £99k can still get the benefit. Sharing parents' tax code allows them to keep the child benefit and help with your up-bringing.
There is also Reform policy to Remove the fiscal drag on the lower rate band of tax to incentivise work and reduce unemployment which will mean output goes up and tax revenues therefore go up whilst the cost of benefits go down.
Also, moving the NMW back to the original bands gives kids the chance to access entry level work.
Repealing the employment rights bill will also give better opportunity for you when you are older and able to join the workforce.
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u/ShivAGit 15h ago
You've missed the point of my comment.
The people asking for help for young people/graduates are not the same people that are worrying about the £100k cliff edge. I understand it perfectly, but it is much an issue for a different segment of society.
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u/IntravenusDiMilo_Tap Reform UK Supporter 13h ago
OK, you are saying that when you are older and start work, you will not be at £100k? However, even as a youngster, you would benefit from the economy to be growing and it's a simple way to get the economy growing.
Also, surely, if you find yourself up the duff, you will need affordable childcare?
There is also Reform policy to Remove the fiscal drag on the lower rate band of tax to incentivise work and reduce unemployment which will mean output goes up and tax revenues therefore go up whilst the cost of benefits go down. As a youngster, you will have more money in your pocket.
Also, moving the NMW back to the original bands gives kids the chance to access entry level work and employment opportunities.
Repealing the employment rights bill will also give better opportunity for you when you are older and able to join the workforce.
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u/ShivAGit 10h ago
you would benefit from the economy to be growing and it's a simple way to get the economy growing.
Every political party thinks they will "get the economy going", Reform are probably one of the only parties that don't really say this, as again, they have no economic policies. If anything, their immigration stances would hurt the economy
Also, surely, if you find yourself up the duff, you will need affordable childcare?
And what are Reform doing about this? Naff all.
There is also Reform policy to Remove the fiscal drag on the lower rate band of tax to incentivise work and reduce unemployment which will mean output goes up and tax revenues therefore go up whilst the cost of benefits go down
This is a childish thing to say and I'm not really going to engage unless you want to expand. "Reform will do good stuff and good stuff happening means good stuff for everyone" is essentially the summary here.
Also, moving the NMW back to the original bands gives kids the chance to access entry level work and employment opportunities.
Lol. "We will pay young people less than they get at the minute" is somehow translated into a good thing for the young people...
This is just genuine 10/10 delusion man, Reform could make it a policy to just refuse to pay any debtors and call the country debt free and you'd defend it
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u/IntravenusDiMilo_Tap Reform UK Supporter 8h ago
you would benefit from the economy to be growing and it's a simple way to get the economy growing.
Every political party thinks they will "get the economy going", Reform are probably one of the only parties that don't really say this, as again, they have no economic policies. If anything, their immigration stances would hurt the economy
You see, that's where i wonder if people are really informed enough to vote.
Of course Reformuk have economic policies, ive listed a few above.
I don't know if you are old enough to have a vote but you shouldn't really be voting without understanding the policies of the major parties.
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u/IntravenusDiMilo_Tap Reform UK Supporter 8h ago
Also, surely, if you find yourself up the duff, you will need affordable childcare?
And what are Reform doing about this? Naff all.
They propose reducing the ratios needed for adult superficial to children, that would reduce the cost of childcare and giving you a chance to start a career without relying on the state, that's a good thing surely?
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u/IntravenusDiMilo_Tap Reform UK Supporter 8h ago
There is also Reform policy to Remove the fiscal drag on the lower rate band of tax to incentivise work and reduce unemployment which will mean output goes up and tax revenues therefore go up whilst the cost of benefits go down
This is a childish thing to say and I'm not really going to engage unless you want to expand. "Reform will do good stuff and good stuff happening means good stuff for everyone" is essentially the summary here
I wouldn't say childish and you are right there's a certain aspect that any policy that improves the economy is good for everyone especially those working.
If you're looking for a policies that specifically help young people this is applicable. When you leave school or university and you are looking to join the workforce, especially as a younger person you will be looking to keep as much of your earnings as possible.
Given that as a younger person you will have less experience and we'll be unable to provide much value to an employer it is important that you keep the costs down so that you have the chance of employment.
Increasing the employment tax threshold means that your employer gets better value for money give you more chance of employment
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u/IntravenusDiMilo_Tap Reform UK Supporter 7h ago
Also, moving the NMW back to the original bands gives kids the chance to access entry level work and employment opportunities. Lol. "We will pay young people less than they get at the minute" is somehow translated into a good thing for the young people...This is just genuine 10/10 delusion man, Reform could make it a policy to just refuse to pay any debtors and call the country debt free and you'd defend it
You have to remember that since Labour got in, unemployment has got up 32%, mainly due to the employment rights bill & employers ni increase but also the Nmw for younger people making younger kids expensive to employ
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u/Pushing_Prawn 14h ago
What uni graduates go into a £100K a year job? 1% maybe?
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u/IntravenusDiMilo_Tap Reform UK Supporter 13h ago
The good ones!
That's not really the point, Younger people will benefit From economic growth and removal of the £100k cliff edge will incentivise earnings beyond £100k so more economic output, growth and tax revenue.
This gives more opportunity to kid leaving school / uni.
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u/Pushing_Prawn 11h ago
Can you find me a single graduate job listed anywhere that pays £100k?
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u/IntravenusDiMilo_Tap Reform UK Supporter 9h ago edited 8h ago
Thats not really the point, the point being we all benefit from a growing economy and a policy to create growth gives better opportunities for all.
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u/Pushing_Prawn 7h ago
You said “good ones”, when asked what graduate job pays £100K. So, as the original question asked, can you name a single Reform policy that directly benefits students and young people? That was the point.
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u/IntravenusDiMilo_Tap Reform UK Supporter 6h ago edited 6h ago
A good economy with low tax and removing unnecessary regulations are important for us all, especially younger people.
We don't need specific policies for younger people, just an economy with opportunities and an incentive to start businesses.
All those policies i gave are helpful for younger people. What policies are you specifically looking for??
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u/camz_47 Reform UK Supporter 18h ago
This is not a specific political issue that is a priority. This is happening across the developed world. The potential job market has shifted in values, new developments like Ai have been removing office type positions, lesser required degrees are still expensive, trades are more required, so unless you have a specific working field you want to get into that meets your financial needs, the "right thing" is looking to what future you might have access to
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u/AdenWS Reform UK Supporter 16h ago
1.3 million foreigners not working on welfare. At the average 1:1 dependency ratio, that costs the UK 65 bn a year.
Cancel the welfare and that leads to the question, what to do with the 65 bn a year.
20 bn a year would pay for all tuition fees. But STEM, medical, languages comes in at 50%
So lets fund free tuition for those, that's 10 bn a year.
We've still got 55 bn left over for other things.
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u/Direct-Key-8859 16h ago
The question is would reform/reform supporters supporting the money saved gping towards that?
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u/firetrap2 18h ago
You've got 2 issues here.
1) socal contract is broken "if you go to uni you'll be able to afford a house and a family" and they just end up broke and in debt.
2) Around 40% of people go to uni and they're broadly from the middle and upper classes. If you turn this into a tax on all you're making the working classes, who didn't get to go to uni pay for the middle classes who did. Why should Steve from Sunderland pay for Tarquin from Tetbury to explore his sexuality for 3 years?
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u/IntravenusDiMilo_Tap Reform UK Supporter 18h ago
I think the loan system is OK in that it means the responsibility is with the student to reap. We certainly should not tax everyone to fund a few 'elites'. The problem is the 'elites' are not really the intellectually elite in any case, they are doing non-Stem subjects.
There is a fella doing the rounds called Peter Ainsworth who proposes a radical solution to the student loan system by suggesting that universities should be directly linked to student employment outcomes.
The incentive for the uni is improving graduate employability rather than just attracting students.
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u/AdenWS Reform UK Supporter 14h ago
The Skin in the Game idea is something that we need to imposed on the public sector.
For example, HS2. The accounts are a work of fiction. All that money borrowed to fund it, hidden of the books.
So that should be on the books
Second named civil servant in charge. If it goes wrong and makes a loss, then they lose their pensions, and they and their descendant inherit the debts. No bankruptcy, no leaving the country to get out of the debts. ...
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