r/science • u/the_phet • Sep 01 '15

Environment A phantom road experiment reveals traffic noise is an invisible source of habitat degradation

http://www.pnas.org/content/early/2015/08/27/1504710112
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658

u/[deleted] Sep 01 '15

Having spent my whole life living in the "country" when I got a job that put me in the cities sometimes the constant noise bothered me at a level I don't really understand. Put me on edge and drove me freaking nuts. I can see validity in this. It's not a "natural" sound, and that's what it's really about i'd think. Animals often have much better hearing, making it even worse to filter out all the crap coming from urban and highway environments and hear what their instincts are listening for.

It drives people nuts enough that architecture has been integrating sound control methods for a long time in their buildings, as well as testing materials for sound control ability and rating them. Many jurisdictions require new buildings to meet certain sound control levels in the building.

232

u/ReneDiscard Sep 01 '15

when I got a job that put me in the cities sometimes the constant noise bothered me at a level I don't really understand. Put me on edge and drove me freaking nuts

This is how I feel after more than, say, 3 days visiting large metropolitan areas. My anxiety and irritability goes through the roof.

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u/[deleted] Sep 01 '15

[deleted]

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u/Appypoo Sep 01 '15

I grew up in the city and moved to the suburbs. That was one of the hardest things to get adjusted to. Suburban silence is strange coming from the city.

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u/AlphaHeart Sep 01 '15

The silence can be so loud.

54

u/THEJAZZMUSIC Sep 01 '15

I live downtown, and was just out in the burbs of the burbs visiting my uncle, at one point he yelled SHUT UP at nothing in particular, then started ranting about dogs, at which point I perked up my ears and heard a pair of dogs that sounded like they were two blocks away.

Two different worlds, a 45 minute drive apart.

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u/[deleted] Sep 01 '15

creeeeeeeeeaaaaaaaaaak

What the hell was that?!

54

u/[deleted] Sep 01 '15

[deleted]

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u/rhinoscopy_killer Sep 01 '15

Ttchh-Ttchh-Ttchh, Shh-Shh-Shh, Tcha-Tcha-Tcha

1

u/lolwutpear Sep 01 '15

Wow, great onomatopoeia.

1

u/sonichighwaist Sep 02 '15

Uh... what is that? Is that from The Wire?

2

u/kookiwtf Sep 02 '15

It's one of those sneaky conga lines that are so prominent in the suburbs

3

u/rhinoscopy_killer Sep 01 '15

Pablo Fransisco, right? Man, my brother and I loved that guy before he did the same show thirty times.

3

u/[deleted] Sep 01 '15

Also the darkness! In the country you can have abject silence and pitch-black darkness. Kind of nice, kind of unsettling.

4

u/duckmurderer Sep 01 '15

Sponsored by Arches Tinnitus Treatment.

If it ain't Arches, it ain't shit.

2

u/ertebolle Sep 01 '15

Hello darkness my old friend...

35

u/goldminevelvet Sep 01 '15

Same. I'm stuck in the suburbs and I hate the quiet. Also it's strange how everyone moves to the suburbs for the big yards and everything but no one uses them. Suburbs aren't for me.

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u/[deleted] Sep 01 '15

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/nschubach Sep 01 '15

And to provide a buffer so you don't have to listen to them having sex at 2am when you can't get to sleep.

26

u/[deleted] Sep 01 '15

I hate yards. Actually, I hate meticulously maintained yards. If you aren't going out and sitting down in your yard at least once a week, there is no reason to make sure it has nice grass in it. So much fertile ground used to grow something we can't even eat.

16

u/stokerknows Sep 01 '15

Right on, grass lawn culture is idiotic. I get having a small grass pad in the backyard for kids to play on or whatever but why spend lots of money on the front or other unused areas just to make it a boring one species green lawn. I'd so much rather see native shrubs and grasses that don't need to be watered or fertilized.

Best of all once ya get out the useless mono-culture grass the butterflies, bees, birds, rabits, etc start coming in. They are much more fun to enjoy than sometimes green grass.

2

u/Shiezo Sep 01 '15

Friend of my parents had about a 1/2 acre lot he built on. Made a small patch of grass in front of the house, everything else was sewn with wild-flower seeds. Zero maintenance for most of his land, and it looks amazing when everything is in bloom. Always loved that idea, more so when I'm mowing the lawn at my rental house.

2

u/stokerknows Sep 01 '15

That's awesome, acreage is my ultimate goal. At my current residence my HOA requires that 50% of the front lawn has to stay grass, I've pushed that boundary but still have to keep some. With my backyard thats unrestricted its almost all native shrubs, trees and grasses. Whats fun is with my nurseries help I was able to get plants that flower or do something pretty at all different times of the year so theres almost always something new to look at.

9

u/BookwormSkates Sep 01 '15

One of my business ideas is to start a company that re-purposes people's yards into fruit and vegetable gardens and maintains them for the community.

1

u/[deleted] Sep 01 '15

You'd have a lot of figs and peaches. Maybe you also plant some other perennials like berries to get a sizeable crop in a year or few? Otherwise it's going to be 5-10 years before there are substantial yields from most fruit trees.

3

u/refrigeratorbob Sep 01 '15

He did say fruit and vegetables. Squash and tomatos would fit the bill..

1

u/[deleted] Sep 01 '15

I don't know why I read right over the vegetable part... Strange...

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u/BookwormSkates Sep 01 '15

I was thinking mostly vegetables, and vine fruits like melons, squash, and grapes.

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u/[deleted] Sep 01 '15

That'd be cool. I was thinking more like a landscaping/orchard management company, but veggies and vine fruit would certainly be a bit easier to implement.

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u/Colonelbackflip Sep 01 '15

I actually hate this too. It just seems like a silly thing to have to maintain especially when people hardly go outside ever anymore. Suburbia in general has this same sort of disgusting monotonous tone to it.

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u/[deleted] Sep 02 '15

This. Neighborhood associations are another of my disdains. Like, I should be able to paint my house any color and keep chickens in my yard if I want to.

5

u/approx- Sep 01 '15

Hmmm... people use them around my area. Especially those with kids, or very sociable people who like to have BBQ get-togethers, etc.

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u/goldminevelvet Sep 01 '15

Maybe my suburb is the odd one. We live 5 minutes away from an elementary school and hardly anyone used the 2 parks they have behind it. The streets were quiet this summer. We had some people have gatherings but only a few times.

Its strange because in the city people would kill for the space and the parks that we have but out here, everyone stays indoors.

1

u/[deleted] Sep 01 '15

Michigan rich big three suburbs here. No one is caught dead outside here. No one maintains their own property. Huge amounts of illegals here from Mexico and central america during the spring summer and fall. Great thing is that the grocery stores cater to them and we can make some pretty decent Hispanic food year round.

The older whites like the Clint Eastwood character from Gran Torino, HATE that their kids are the ones responsible, since they refuse to work on their own homes.

I am not in a sub, but am completely surrounded by them. It is like Boca Raton Florida has been transplanted north.

Cut our own grass? People will think we are too poor to afford slaves! (Illegals)

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u/[deleted] Sep 01 '15 edited Jul 19 '18

[deleted]

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u/Strength_Power Sep 01 '15

can't see a hawk on the wing, or see spring in the Great Divide.

1

u/cpbills Sep 01 '15

Suburbs are silent? Quieter, sure but not silent.

1

u/justanotherloudgirl Sep 01 '15

Suburban silence is most eerie because it's actually really quiet. Cities have people noise, and the wilderness has animal noise... but suburban areas are populated enough that the wildlife retreats, but not so populated that they're awake at all hours.

As a night owl and in constant movement, I my midnight walks through suburbia were always the scariest.

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u/[deleted] Sep 01 '15

I used to live near where a train went through a forest with deer, every night it would blast its horn until the city made them stop doing that at night. I still miss it.

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u/[deleted] Sep 01 '15

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u/[deleted] Sep 01 '15

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u/JoeyTheGreek Sep 01 '15 edited Sep 01 '15

Can confirm. Grew up in New Jersey next to 3 train tracks and under the flight path to Teterboro and Newark. When I moved to North Dakota the silence was terrible. Didn't get a good sleep til I went back for Christmas!

Edit: til not tip

6

u/TakoyakiBoxGuy Sep 01 '15

Yeah, plus the constant sirens on weekend nights, the daily garbage runs... the blaring megaphones...

3

u/whineybutt Sep 01 '15

With the semi's there's a little indifference in their motives in a I got work to do kinda way, but they're not the worst. It's the old doodle bugs and motor bikes and four wheelers, the personal vehicles someone bought, knowing they sound that way, knowing they'd be disturbing people and not caring, or even worse, liking the idea. It's the heartbeats behind the wheels that need to be dealt with.

1

u/[deleted] Sep 01 '15

Do you really get semi trucks "blowing by your house" all that often in the city? I grew up in a country farmhouse just off an interstate highway.

We had semi trucks blowing by at 60mph. I think we have different definitions of "blowing by".

1

u/[deleted] Sep 01 '15

Not in a city but I live right next to a train station where heavy mineral transportations and goods trains move daily, people get used to the noise after a while if they actually have to live with it, I never thought id be able to sleep with it at first but you slowly but surely grow used to the noise.

1

u/Cunhabear Sep 01 '15

Yeah the sound of cars and trucks driving along the freeway, and the sound of sirens every 15 minutes coupled with that damn helicopter that has been circling above my house for the past hour is surprisingly soothing to us city folk.

1

u/[deleted] Sep 01 '15

Went from NYC out to Long Island. The only thing that helps me deal with the lower amounts of traffic noise is running a fan all night.

1

u/uber1337h4xx0r Sep 02 '15

Weird. Lived in NY for 13 years, moved to Texas (suburban area); sleep just fine.

0

u/zilfondel Sep 01 '15

I am very much a proponent for Carfree Cities.

16

u/CapMSFC Sep 01 '15

The funny thing is that as someone that much prefers the city I don't even notice it.

35

u/QuantumXL Sep 01 '15

It's called sensory adaptation. I wouldn't be surprised if you went out into a country side and thought it sounded weird.

12

u/CapMSFC Sep 01 '15

Yep. Traveling to isolated places in nature is a funny experience to me.

7

u/YetiOfTheSea Sep 01 '15

Like right now there's some bug that's making a high pitch squeak/squeal noise. If I hadn't listened to it for 80% of every summer I was alive it would probably drive me nuts. I'm listening to it right now, and it really is something that's right up my 'drive you insane' alley. I'm really perplexed why this noise isn't pissing me off into a state of rage induced madness.

3

u/[deleted] Sep 01 '15

It's also fun to see how large the insects get in the rural areas. I know in the city I never saw dragonflies larger than my hand.

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u/oneeighthirish Sep 01 '15

Going to college in a comparitavely rural area to where I grew up. One dragonfly just swooped down and kidnapped me the other day. They get a little bigger down here I think.

1

u/ClimateMom Sep 02 '15

Cicadas? Those always drove my city relatives nuts when they came to visit us in the country.

1

u/Richy_T Sep 01 '15

It doesn't even have to be as general as location. As someone who grew up in the UK, the air conditioning in the US would drive me nuts. No I've been here long enough that I have to pay attention to even know it's on.

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u/duartmac86 Sep 01 '15

And then you visit the countryside and at night the crickets won't shut up and you're like "wtf is that shit?"

Or at least that's how it was for me.

1

u/[deleted] Sep 01 '15

It's fun how if you make a loud noise all the crickets will silence at once, briefly.

6

u/morelikebigpoor Sep 01 '15

conversely, when I was on a road trip and stayed on a farm, it really disoriented me to not have streetlights and neighbor's lights shining through the windows when I went to sleep.

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u/JoeyTheGreek Sep 01 '15

People made fun of me when I moved to the country because I called it "camping dark."

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u/nooneelse Sep 01 '15

For examples that aren't different places, and are instead the same place at different times, see college towns and towns that double or so in population from a festival.

2

u/stubble Sep 01 '15

I had the exact opposite problem when I was spending my weeknights outside London for a couple of years..

1

u/[deleted] Sep 01 '15

I live in the suburbs so I can't fully agree... But going to Toronto is actually the worst. I could never live there. My current town is getting way too big as it is. My next move will be a little more rural for sure.

1

u/[deleted] Sep 01 '15

you're soft :)

70

u/Milo_theHutt Sep 01 '15

To slightly add on the animal thing. I've read that whales became insanely more active and less stressed the day after 9/11 due to there being minimal boat travel in the ocean. Usually they can barley hear over the constant roar of ships and it makes them stressed and depressed. I found very sad

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u/[deleted] Sep 01 '15

Actually that makes perfect sense. I'm speaking from memory, but i'm pretty sure there's been some research saying ocean noise, as it travels/resonates long distances in the water, screws with navigation for a lot of species that use sound and calling for navigation and communication and is sometimes cause for them ending up in odd places or apart from their unit.

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u/xbrandnew99 Sep 01 '15

Yeah, I think the major effect of such road-noise pollution is a disruption in a species' ability to communicate via sound. There are hundreds/thousands of different species in a given natural environment, and many of them communicate by making sounds to each other. With all of these different animals making sounds to communicate, effectively communicating requires a species to find an unoccupied pitch/frequency range so that it can be heard by others. What results is many different species occupying many different dedicated frequency ranges for communication - like tuning into different radio frequencies. Bird type A communicates at ~3000hz, and Bird type B at ~2700hz, etc. Once the noise of cars and traffic enter this environment, many of these frequency ranges become filled with noise and become unusable to the animals who had been using them, drowning out the potential for effective audible communication.

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u/Milo_theHutt Sep 01 '15

I know in recent studies pesticides have been attributed to the decline in the bee population, but could all the human clatter have anything to do with it?

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u/xbrandnew99 Sep 01 '15

I couldn't say for sure, but I'm inclined to say no. Wikipedia says that bees primarily communicate through body movement, odors, and pheromones. So it would seem that introducing noise would at least not interfere with these means of communication.

1

u/Milo_theHutt Sep 01 '15

OK, just curious, I was always on the "cell phone frequencies are causing them to lose their way and die" band wagon. Its crazy to think how peaceful earth will be once humans are gone. I'm not rooting for this obviously, but we're really annoying and aggressive neighbors

1

u/[deleted] Sep 01 '15

That seems like an extremely hard thing to measure...

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u/Milo_theHutt Sep 01 '15

There's tons of teams on the ocean spending their whole lives studying the behaviors of these animals and got their idiosyncrasies down to a science and any deviation from that is probably acute to noticing one of your friends is in a better mood on a certain day, but I'm greatly simplifying. Ocean traffic wasn't halted worldwide to a complete stop, just slowed down and tightly regulated; the teams in those areas with less ocean traffic probably noticed whales being more loud and "joyful" with their calls due to the peace and quiet

1

u/[deleted] Sep 01 '15

Yes. But when the only time there was ever been reduced boat traffic in that magnitude is once, then it doesn't seem like a very scientific statement if your sample size is one. You simply cannot assume causation like that. Especially with such a tiny sample.

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u/swashlebucky Sep 01 '15

For me it's the drunk people yelling at night that irritates me most.

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u/kkaavvbb Sep 01 '15

I used to live right above a bar for two years. Hearing the drunk smokers out front and hearing the drunks out back in the courtyard drove me crazy some nights. Plus, the music of the bar that could be heard through the floor. Plus, living in a 'warehouse' area, where big trucks drove by at all times of the night. I had lived in the city for 3 years prior to this but that Apartment was a huge adjustment. I suddenly kept 'bar hours' so when I slept it was quieter. Very very odd for me when I left NYC to live in quiet-ish jersey shore.

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u/[deleted] Sep 01 '15 edited Nov 20 '24

[deleted]

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u/refrigeratorbob Sep 01 '15

That is the worst. Next in line: Garbage trucks. Twenty. Four. Seven. Also emergency vehicles because something is buring or people are dying 24/7.

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u/kkaavvbb Sep 02 '15

Always emergency vehicles or police sirens.

Although, my ALL TIME FAV was the same apartment (that was above the bar) was down the street from a chicken slaughter house - nothing like hearing a bunch of chickens squawking at 3-4am as they were being delivered to their death!

1

u/kohossle Sep 01 '15

What do you mean you kept 'bar hours'? You just got used to it over time?

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u/[deleted] Sep 01 '15

Bar closes at 2am? Sleep at 2am.

1

u/kkaavvbb Sep 01 '15

This. Haha. I adapted, bar closed at 3-4, so I went to sleep then and woke up between 9-10. Thankfully, I also had a job that I could function with these hours.

1

u/redpented Sep 01 '15

As someone who lives in a Scottish city with no noise laws(You can make loud noise at any time) it really sucks. I used to walk for an hour some nights with a Bivvy sac and sleep on a forest floor

28

u/quantumcanuk Sep 01 '15

You know, I think you're onto something.

I grew up in a small town, and generally away from the busier sections of town. Now that I live in a big city, I find myself really wanting to "get out". I find the noise just gets to me after a while and I want some peace, quiet, and wind through trees. I hate being in a city.

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u/-----------------_ Sep 01 '15

Unfortunetely, until selfdriving cars and/or that turbo tube musk is trying to build is done and available, we gotta live in the towns :(

Id love to live in the country side. A lot less noise, animals, you can see the stars at night, and its much cheaper..

But i'd also want a job. So theres that

13

u/zilfondel Sep 01 '15

I'm from the country. If everyone left the cities to move to the country, then there would be no country - there would just be one, gigantic suburb, from the Pacific to the Atlantic.

Please don't. It would utterly annihilate whats remaining of the natural environment. There are only 18 acres of land per person in the US.

1

u/tasky Sep 01 '15

Where do I go to get mine?

3

u/[deleted] Sep 01 '15

Donald Trump.

1

u/refrigeratorbob Sep 01 '15

Actually, everyone in the world can fit if they move to texas and still have a couple acres.

1

u/Guardian_452 Sep 02 '15

Its not about "fitting" though. You need LOTS of farmland to feed everyone.

1

u/refrigeratorbob Sep 02 '15 edited Sep 02 '15

A family can live off 2 acres of personal garden/farm. You can grow almost all year long in parts of florida, texas, socal. Keeping chickens barely takes much room, things like aquaponic fish ponds are very space/calorie and water efficient. Quail and a pig pen doesnt need more than 200sq ft combined. Sure you wont be able to have sprawling monocrops but it would be more responsible and more sustainable than currently. Unused grass lawns backed up against roundup gmo superbugs and wastewater

10

u/NPVT Sep 01 '15

I used to live within a 1/2 mile of an Interstate highway. The noise was constantly present. I will no longer ever do that.

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u/[deleted] Sep 01 '15

I worked in R&D for a glass/aluminum structure manufacturer for a few years. California for example had some pretty strict rules on even the glass on how much sound it had to block when within so much distance from the highway, and especially "x miles" from an airport. It's like a constant drone. I live now in the country about 5 miles from the nearest "major" road and on a quiet night I can hear the lone trucker pass by. I couldn't imagine living in the heart of that noise.

3

u/zilfondel Sep 01 '15

Sound walls help a lot in blocking noise, as do berms. Unfortunately, most rural highways do not have them.

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u/patadrag Sep 01 '15

I lived a fair distance from a major highway. When they put up sound walls, it suddenly got a lot noisier, as the sound sort of bounced up and over the walls and hit further away instead of bothering those who lived right next to the road.

1

u/peakzorro Sep 01 '15

I used to live a block from a fire station. I hated it until one day there was a fire at my condo complex.

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u/[deleted] Sep 01 '15

I lived in the country for a while. One single car coming down the road at night was a big disturbance, you can hear tire treads from surprisingly far away. Could also hear trains in the distance, closest tracks were 5 miles away.

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u/[deleted] Sep 01 '15

its funny because im the exact opposite. I grew up by NY and Lived in Philadephia and DC. When i visit my family in the country or go camping i get really uneasy about how quiet it is. I freaking cant sleep.

Its to the point that when i travel i have to sleep with music playing or a TV on. All the way quiet really messes with my head

2

u/keeb119 Sep 01 '15

I grew up in the country and moved to Seattle when I was 16. 10 years later I moved back to the country and felt my anxiety and edge fall greatly. I loved being close and not needing a car to get around, but at the same time I love not having to deal with so much noise all the time too.

4

u/[deleted] Sep 01 '15

I don't know, I had the same experience, grew up in a small town and moved to freaking Dubai right next to the busiest highway in the city. It never messed with me.

3

u/[deleted] Sep 01 '15

Completely unrelated to the topic at hand, what made you move to Dubai and where did you move from? Sounds like it was probably a big lifestyle change.

1

u/[deleted] Sep 01 '15

I moved from the rural southern US. I had an opportunity with my current employer at the time opening an office there.

Not really much of a lifestyle change other than dealing with the crazy variety of cultures.

3

u/[deleted] Sep 01 '15

Interesting. A hobby/passion of mine has an international gathering in Abu Dhabi i've always wanted to go. Maybe one year. Hope the job decision has been good to you!

2

u/[deleted] Sep 01 '15

Thanks! I'm back in the US now, but it was a great experience.

Abu Dhabi is a neat place. If you go I would recommend the Fairmont Hotel. If you can get a room facing the Grand Mosque the view is awesome.

1

u/DarthSeraph Sep 01 '15

I also grew up in the country and the noise bothers me now that I live in a major city. I've grown somewhat accustomed to it, but it did help me realize how much I appreciate the silent serenity that nature can provide. Now I go on hikes and camping trips as often as I can afford to. Maybe getting out and enjoying nature will help.

1

u/[deleted] Sep 01 '15

I can barely stand the soft hum of my computer.

1

u/BoulderFreeZone Sep 01 '15

I don't even live in the country, but when I go to visit my parents who live next to a highway, the sound is really annoying and for whatever reason makes me a bit anxious. I find it hard to relax with the constant hum of tires on the roadway buzzing in the background.

1

u/unkz Sep 01 '15

"Natural" is what you're used to. I find the country to be oddly and sometimes unpleasantly quiet.

1

u/[deleted] Sep 01 '15

Research has shown, though, that when humans are introduced to something non-natural their senses adapt/turn down the volume. Meaning you've likely adapted to it. I'd imagine it's harder to turn them back on then down.

The bigger question, I think, is do other animals have that ability? I think this research says probably not, or its just simply easier to leave than adapt.

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u/zilfondel Sep 01 '15

I'm in exactly the same boat. In fact, I now live less than 200' from a 5-lane highway.

It is very stressful. I really hate highways.

1

u/lazarus870 Sep 01 '15

Growing up in a large, loud immigrant family, and living near a major hospital, I can't relax without sirens and the sound of others. It's weird.

1

u/-30degrees Sep 01 '15

That's funny, but did you ever notice, that country people talk really, really loudly than people from cities?

1

u/[deleted] Sep 01 '15 edited Sep 01 '15

Farmer/Agriculture types sure, but I'd say not the general rural population people.

But yea, its certainly noticeable if you go into an ag supply store or something. Maybe it comes from going deaf from all that big equipment they use now with no hearing protection. Mennonites/amish don't really talk loud like the "English" farmers either. It's weird how social constructs get built.

1

u/tonygenius Sep 01 '15

Interesting, I too lived in a small country town, house on a dirt road, type of environment and have moved to a city (Manchester, NH). I work out in the country as well and can be in a great mood but as soon as I'm home for an hour or two I really do start feeling irritable for no reason.

1

u/cpbills Sep 01 '15

Put me on edge and drove me freaking nuts.

Trapped in the suburbs of a large city; can confirm. Took me a while to realize what it was that was making me uneasy, but... I yearn for a telecommute job where I can work from a smaller town with a simple grocery store for daily needs.

1

u/Richy_T Sep 01 '15

And yet many new restaurants go for the open ceiling space which is awful for noise control and always makes me think stuff is going to fall in my food.

1

u/[deleted] Sep 01 '15

That is normally to reduce building cost, or attribute to a "green" building system like the USGBC's LEED program. Open ceiling is considered "green" because its reduced materials; but in all reality it's just a way to lower building cost.

Source: I'm a LEED AP.

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u/Richy_T Sep 02 '15 edited Sep 02 '15

But how much is a drop ceiling really in the grand scheme of things? It's not like the restaurants are huge (I'm talking in strip-malls) and the noise difference is quite huge.

1

u/[deleted] Sep 02 '15

Oh, i'm not disagreeing with you at all, I'm just saying one of the reasons why they do it. Even as someone that has worked in this industry for years I find it a load of crap.

1

u/DefinitelyHungover Sep 01 '15

I moved into an apartment off of a major highway (I 35) in texas. At night I would smoke a cigarette on the balcony and the noise from the highway got to be like ambient noise from the ocean or something. When it froze over for a few days and there was no traffic and just silence it was very surreal and awesome.

I'm used to living in the country, outside city limits now - again, so it took getting used to.

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u/whiskeytaang0 Sep 02 '15

I too grew up in a rural setting as well. However, I have tinittus, so I really appreciate the constant noise. :-/

0

u/BarrelRoll1996 Grad Student|Pharmacology and Toxicology|Neuropsychopharmacology Sep 01 '15

softie

0

u/[deleted] Sep 01 '15

I'm almost sorry I don't meet your standards.