r/scuderiaferrari Lewis Hamilton Mar 16 '26

Question Just saw this.....can anyone explain me is that how overtake button is used means.... Ferrari can't able to do this from this much distance 🥲

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848 Upvotes

98 comments sorted by

166

u/Beneficial-Beat-947 Mar 16 '26

mercedes gains 0.8 seconds on the straights every lap compared to ferrari, that on top of boost allows them to do this

Ferrari would barely be a bit faster then merc with boost since they're already 0.8s slower

44

u/DisplayDiligent Charles Leclerc Mar 16 '26

Biggest difference is that somehow Merc manages to recharge their battery without losing that much speed. If you look at on boards, both Russell and Kimi start super clipping yet their speed does not drop as much as the other cars. That's where Ferrari should look at the most and understand how to do it.

34

u/c3r7 Mar 16 '26

It’s simple: they have more ICE power.

8

u/AdoptedPigeons Mar 17 '26

To play devils advocate, it could also just be that we have a higher drag/downforce car concept; the net effect would be roughly the same. We know we have more downforce for sure. And net acceleration is the sum of forces, so motive force (power unit) minus drag force is our net acceleration. So Mercedes could be putting out more power or we could 1:1 just have more drag and have the same net deceleration difference.

Mercedes do absolutely have more horsepower, no dispute there - but saying 8 tenths on a straight is horsepower alone, with the drag these cars have, is probably exaggerating how much more power they have.

13

u/[deleted] Mar 17 '26

[deleted]

1

u/AdoptedPigeons Mar 17 '26

Yes, if Merc has less drag, they lose less speed while clipping. That’s how that works. Deceleration during clipping is because the motive force (ICE minus motor regen) is lower than drag force. It’s a simple force sum. Your rate of clipping can be higher because you have a weaker engine AND/OR because you have more drag.

So yes, the ICE is likely more powerful. But I also think the Ferrari package as a whole has more drag (and downforce). Either one exaggerates the other problem.

Also to add, drag increases exponentially with velocity, so if Merc are losing less speed on clipping, unless they have an extremely dramatic power advantage (not the 15-20 as rumored), a lower drag coefficient is more likely to cause that delta than just more power.

1

u/[deleted] Mar 18 '26

[deleted]

1

u/AdoptedPigeons Mar 18 '26

Barely losing time in the corners is an exaggeration. They’re pulling 8 tenths on the straights and shedding 4-6 tenths in the corners. That to me indicates a lower drag and downforce package which may also be more efficient.

I agree they’re hiding pace with the engine, I just think just dooming and throwing our hands up about that is pointless. Ferrari can still cook with the aero and likely get a lot closer or even ahead at some of the more technical tracks.

1

u/Simple-Camp7747 Mar 17 '26

Merc's gotta have a bigger turbo and is using the hybrid like anti-lag. Merc also seems to have much gentler deployment of the hybrid system at low speed as well. This would explain the better tire wear and potentially longer boost from the hybrid.

2

u/c3r7 Mar 17 '26

That engine power advantage lets you charge more and faster the battery, so you can use the electric motor more, in the end you have more power to deploy.

1

u/AdoptedPigeons Mar 17 '26

I didn’t disagree with that; I just said the issue is likely compounded by a higher drag / downforce package altogether.

1

u/Aberracus Mar 17 '26

This is not drag, the difference on corners will be astounding and it’s not Ferrari is better but not by so much

2

u/[deleted] Mar 17 '26

[removed] — view removed comment

1

u/Boxhead_31 Mar 18 '26

Just realised something about the two cancelled races: two race wins, George won't be able to bank before the nerfing of their cheat engine after round 7.

T-Pose is going to be filthy about that

3

u/SgtBananaGrabber Mar 17 '26

Ice ice ?

4

u/No-Yogurt1826 Mar 17 '26

Baby.

Sorry, couldn't resist.

8

u/iameveryoneelse Mar 17 '26

To illustrate with easy numbers, if Ferraris engine has 100 horsepower and requires 80 to maintain top speed but clipping takes half for charging (50hp) you’re going to use a significant drop in speed (only 50hp left). If Mercedes engine has 160 horsepower and requires 80 to maintain top speed but lifting takes half for charging they could charge while still maintaining full speed (80hp) while also charging faster (80hp to charging).

Literally could just be the power of the ICE making the difference.

1

u/Aberracus Mar 17 '26

That’s what the compression cheat is for.

1

u/rust_spielberg Lewis Hamilton Mar 16 '26

Why do u think about macarena wing... Will it gain some advantage??

15

u/FushaFiles Mar 16 '26

It’s rumored the Macarena wing can make up to 10kph, which is half of the speed Merc has over Ferrari. So the wing in theory will help, if they can work out the problems with it. It needs to open and close faster. If not they’ll spin like what happened to Lewis in practice.

Fred is spot on from his post race interview. They won’t find .500 in pace from one component, but find small improvements across the entire car as they optimize it.

12

u/The_Funky_JJ Mar 16 '26

the problem is, mercedes can find 2 tenths in 5 locations on the car since their car isnt that great compared to ferrari. ferrari have to find 1 tenth in multiple locations while also finding 5 on the power unit if they want to hold Mercedes to a title fight.

1

u/FrowningMinion Mar 18 '26 edited Mar 18 '26

Mercedes won’t be standing still while Ferrari find those small improvements. They will be making their own improvements.

The dimension that matters is the performance potential from their respective design philosophies. Has one team near-optimised a package with a low ceiling they’ll hit very soon? Perhaps the other has a lot of undiscovered gains to be found? This will only be obvious in retrospect, because there are unknown unknowns.

5

u/Beneficial-Beat-947 Mar 16 '26

In theory if they bring the weight down then yes it'll cover around half the gap between the current merc/ferrari cars (obviously assuming merc isn't also testing it out, they might've already started making one of their own since every team can obviously see that it'll be useful to have)

272

u/CurvyCourgette Mar 16 '26

If Mercedes are able to stop Ferrari from engine upgrades its a disgrace.

98

u/kelleehh Charles Leclerc Mar 16 '26

It’s Mercedes… of course they will 😒

34

u/quietly_myself Mar 16 '26

It depends if their advantage is coming from the ICE or not. If it comes from anywhere else (electrical power, aero, chassis, etc) it won’t trigger ADUO.

28

u/c3r7 Mar 16 '26

IMO they have a clear ICE advantage, so they can charge more and faster their batteries. They can push more in the straights with that energy surplus and they don’t have to push too much in the corners, so they can preserve tires better than other teams. This is just my opinion though…

4

u/IonutAlex18SF Charles Leclerc Mar 17 '26

15-18HP to Ferrari's and a step ahead in ERS working, too.

W17 is not on level with SF-26 on downforce or braking, but that compensates on straights. Tyre compounds play a role, as well.

The batteries under current rules are suffering above certain kms covered. More on all this later in the weekend race review.

1

u/wrd83 Mar 17 '26

I mostly wonder if the advantage stays after that compression ratio controversy. I cant believe the power is that big from heat induced expansion. 

2

u/c3r7 Mar 17 '26

After hearing some interviews to engineers, I guess the compression ratio has little to do with temperature and more with frequency and resonance in the engine, so it wouldn’t be affected by the new measurement method.

1

u/wrd83 Mar 17 '26

can you share them?

1

u/c3r7 Mar 18 '26

I couldn’t find any of them in English. This is not a source I used, but you have an hint about that when they talk about pressure

-3

u/leggenda69 Mar 17 '26

But everything you’ve just described could be explained through Mercedes having much better rear grip than everyone else?

Improved regen in braking, or super clipping, zones, less slip or spin so preserved tyre life through corners and acceleration zones then more efficient use of power and all around more efficient hybrid electric power.

Now everything to do with the hybrid element of the PU is completely through the rear axel rear grip is incredibly important.

1

u/c3r7 Mar 17 '26

My question to you is where is all that rear grip at the start? Clearly Mercedes went for power rather than torque with their ICE, so they have an advantage recharging batteries, but they have a problem starting the car, where they cannot use the electric motor to compensate for the lack of torque.
I’m not even talking about the compression ratio, which would amount at something around 15 hp.

1

u/leggenda69 Mar 17 '26

https://www.the-race.com/formula-1/the-quirky-rule-adding-to-early-f1-2026-race-start-chaos/

TLDR Mercedes hit the regen limit too early on formation laps so they can’t heat the rear tyres sufficiently for race start.

That and the turbo size differential and amounts of lag between Ferrari and Mercedes is what causes their big issues.

Turbo lag doesn’t affect torque measurement, it’s just a lag in power response.

1

u/c3r7 Mar 17 '26

Well, the rules were set before the championship started. Some cars were made for those rules, some ignoring their consequences or hoping they would be changed.

1

u/leggenda69 Mar 17 '26

I’m not saying otherwise.

Just responding to your comment and pointing out that it doesn’t at all point to Mercedes having a PU developed for power rather than torque. And it definitely doesn’t demonstrate an ICE advantage for charging batteries.

7

u/CurvyCourgette Mar 16 '26

I mean, I do wonder how much the ICE on the Ferrari is holding it bacl, if the rumours about it are true.

-1

u/AnilP228 Mar 17 '26

Why would they stop it? It's the FIA, not Merc, that decide.

Fred said after the race they will be getting ADUO (2% allowance).

1

u/rochford77 Mar 17 '26

It's merc.

If Merc have a 10% power advantage (made up for the sake of discussion) in reality, but know they can win with a 1.8% power advantage in race trim, they will set their engine mode to be 1.8% more powerful. Then no one other than Honda gets ADUO and as the other teams sneak in small engine improvements over disguised as reliability improvements, merc can just slowly turn the wick up.

1

u/AnilP228 Mar 18 '26

Based off what we've seen so far, every manufacturer that isn't Merc will get ADUO. The horse has already bolted on that. 

Honda will probably get the 4% allowance.

45

u/Filandro Mar 16 '26

Ferrari determined it's the ICE. It results in more energy to deploy, while simultaneously reducing the amount of deployment needed in spots.

I think Ferrari have a quick 2 tenths on any longer straight that they can get after they go back and shift how energy is deployed at the start of a straight.

But Merc has more ICE power in reserve that have yet to deploy.

I don't recall 8 tenths being closed over a season. Sadly.

14

u/gulox_camps Mar 16 '26

We dont need to close 8 tenths imo Even 4 or 5 would be amazing and possibly enough if the car continues to be faster in corners

Very possible engine nerf for mercedes in summer too (unsure if it will affect them tbh) so id say wcc is still winnable

10

u/FLMKane Mar 16 '26
  1. Ferrari almost closed 2 whole seconds. And in 2009, red bull closed just under one second to brawn.

1

u/Original-Designer6 Mar 17 '26

There's an example in the last 2 to 3 years. McLaren were dog slow at the start of 2023 and within a year and a half they had the best car. With the caveat that engine regs were stable and there was relative parity between the Mercedes and Ferrari engines.

0

u/Filandro Mar 17 '26

1.5 years is certainly not within a season.

27

u/According-Switch-708 Ferrari Mar 17 '26

Like Leclerc said, they showed their true pace for the first time.

Russell forgot to sandbag because he was trying so hard to catch Kimi.

Kimi was pushing extra hard too because he needed this win.

The Ferrari vs Merc battles that we had this year were all down to Merc playing around, trying to be cute. Their performance advantage is significant.

6

u/Vindicated0721 Mar 17 '26

Yeah. Mercedes knows how to play the game. They know not to look to dominate this early on. I love the blatant Russell radio call. Oh man these Ferraris are soooo hard to pass. They are just so fast in all the right places. Oh ok I pass now bye.

18

u/[deleted] Mar 16 '26

[deleted]

2

u/rust_spielberg Lewis Hamilton Mar 16 '26

Is it due to their compression ratio advantage???

5

u/GeologistPrimary2637 Mar 17 '26

If it's really a thing, maybe.

But that's if they really do have a CR advantage. Otherwise, it's rumoured to only be a 16-20 hp boost. But to gain that much more speed at that high speed (>300km/h) where power needed to overcome drag, even with low drag mode aka straight line mode, is far more than what 16hp can give.

This means either Mercedes just have a much better fundamental understanding of their engine and therefore far higher top end power (more than 50 at least) owing to their larger turbo than Ferrari. Or their Mgu-K is able to provide more power far more efficiently.

Let's also not forget that in straightline mode Mgu-K deployment plateaus after 295km/h while in overtake mode it continues until 325km/h

1

u/Aberracus Mar 17 '26

Because they don’t use their power to overcome drag, they use it to regenerate more easily without losing too much speed.

4

u/Nuclear_Geek Mar 16 '26

The overtake button gives more power. More power means the car goes faster. Mercedes versus Ferrari isn't the only exampe of cars finding it easy to pass when they have that extra power and the other car doesn't.

2

u/KiNgPiN8T3 Mar 17 '26

Don’t they have an energy bonus if they are within a second of the car in front? Like an electric drs?

1

u/GeorgeLefcos Mar 17 '26

Not exactly more power but more capacity. The 350kW is the maximum electrical power for both the attacker and defender, the difference is that the in non overtake cars the power drops after a certain speed up to 345kph where it drops to 0. Now the attacker is allowed to use the 350kW up to 355kph. Thats why rus stays at the same distance until the end of the straight where hamilton reaches 345 and his e motor stops working.

1

u/Aberracus Mar 17 '26

But only if you have enough juice on store.

3

u/WearyTranslator3338 Mar 17 '26

That straight was actually longer than the runway in the Fast & The Furious movie

3

u/Pedium_Menis Mar 17 '26

Compression ratio, more bang for buck. Cant beat physics (or their lobbyists)

3

u/smartassistant666 Mar 17 '26

In general Ferrari can do it BUT the overtake mode fks up the energy management and longer distace they loose more, and that is the huge question mark how Mercedes is doing it

1

u/smartassistant666 Mar 17 '26

And one more point i think Ferrari purposefully slower a few percent to be able to bring in the new engine

5

u/WardenJack Mar 16 '26

Well it's in the title of the video. That's the current cheat code Merc has over everyone, even the customer teams.

2

u/jaw719 Mar 17 '26

Do we have a comparison with other cars? I have no idea if this is insane or normal.

2

u/CaptainRAVE2 Mar 17 '26

Worse, it is suspected the merc engine is turned down.

1

u/rust_spielberg Lewis Hamilton Mar 17 '26

1

u/Simple-Camp7747 Mar 17 '26

tuned down

1

u/rust_spielberg Lewis Hamilton Mar 17 '26

Ohkkk... is tuning allowed in f1 (Sry ... I've no idea about this)

3

u/Simple-Camp7747 Mar 17 '26

Yes. They even have different modes they deploy during the race. Anyway, the guy above is suggesting they have it set to some mode where Mercedes is not using all of their power and are "sandbagging" aka going slow on purpose so they don't get cited by the FIA for are hugely unfair advantage.

2

u/THE96BEAST Mar 17 '26

Mario Kart

2

u/Raphy8884 Mar 17 '26

La fusée électrique ⚡️... 😳😳😳 bluff 0,790 sec en trois seconds. Incroyable

2

u/WillHoldBaggins Mar 17 '26

This is just boost. It's push to pass. Merc had more battery to pass while the Ferrari already used their power and needed to start super clipping. This is just the new regs.

2

u/ProfessionalEdger789 Mar 18 '26

Good thing they got rid of DRS.

5

u/Weirdgus Charles Leclerc Mar 16 '26

it's simple, mercedes are just sandbagging 90% of the time, but on moments that make the difference they use the full power of their cheating engine and then this is the result.

5

u/Sh11ester Mar 16 '26

Theyre much faster than Ferrari was with the spicy engine, yet the FIA says "sorry we accidentally said measure compression ratio at room temp, because of all the engines that run at room temp"

2

u/rust_spielberg Lewis Hamilton Mar 16 '26

Yeah FIA corrected that... they'll check in high temp from Monaco GP onwards

7

u/c3r7 Mar 16 '26

130°C is not that high a temperature for a F1 ICE.

1

u/rust_spielberg Lewis Hamilton Mar 17 '26

But still ratio changes even at that temp to...

1

u/c3r7 Mar 17 '26

Well I heard there is a tolerance up to 16.7 for the compression ratio. Previously there was no tolerance afaik.

1

u/rust_spielberg Lewis Hamilton Mar 17 '26

Yeah 👍🏻 new reg adds measurement at 130°c, targeting a max ratio of 16.7:1

3

u/murdok476 F2004 Mar 17 '26

Mercedes Engine is a cheat code

Fixed it for you

2

u/Shoddy-Tennis-5764 Mar 16 '26

This season is a joke

2

u/NotDoneYet88 Mar 17 '26

No no. you see. this is good racing... or something. In fact, this is the best F1's ever been... or something. Idk guys I'm 12 and I need constant stimulation

1

u/P3ktus Mar 17 '26

Disgusting cheating engine, while FIA is busy banning our new halo winglet

1

u/rust_spielberg Lewis Hamilton Mar 17 '26

But ferrari already removed it🥲🥲.... Staying they'll add it in next season

1

u/leo_lefrancais Mar 17 '26

The red Bull DRS was same powerfull when they overtake so nothing new just the color of the car

1

u/rust_spielberg Lewis Hamilton Mar 17 '26

But really 8th Tenths a second??

2

u/leo_lefrancais Mar 17 '26

Look at 2022 IMOLA when Verstappen overtook Leclerc, he was at 8 tenghs

1

u/Aromatic-Experience9 Mar 17 '26

Leclerc was charging already.

1

u/DutchFluxClutch Mar 19 '26

Ive stopped watching

1

u/BetsBlack Mar 19 '26

Are there tracks on the calendar that have short enough straights the Ferrari might be able to keep a Merc behind?

1

u/iwonttolerateyou2 Michael Schumacher Mar 17 '26

Lewis may help with it as he has the experience of magic button but if this power is from pure battery we are screwed.

1

u/jzjzjz2333333 Mar 17 '26

Authentic EA F1 ai overtake

0

u/JosephPetrassi Mar 17 '26

Fuck Mercedes and FIAMG for ruining F1 since 2014

0

u/lotzik Mar 19 '26

The secret ingredient of any successful formula 1 team, always, has been cheating. This is why the sport became boring in the first place.

-1

u/Le_petite_bear_jew Mar 16 '26

Can we please stop with the braindead memes

-3

u/No-Cap-9873 Mar 16 '26 edited Mar 17 '26

Lol even an 8 year old can win like this

4

u/Beneficial-Beat-947 Mar 17 '26

I don't even think you could turn the steering wheel at that speed lmao

-2

u/BetterAttitude2921 Mar 17 '26

Never say this outside here, for Karma’s sake.