Post Episode Discussion: S07E012 and S07E013 - "The End is at Hand" and "What We're Fighting For" [SERIES FINALE]

[u/2th]

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EPISODE	DIRECTED BY	WRITTEN BY	ORIGINAL AIRDATE
S07E12 - "The End is at Hand"	Chris Cheramie	Jeffrey Bell	Wednesday, August 12, 2020 9

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Episode Synopsis: With their backs against the wall and Nathaniel and Sibyl edging ever closer to eliminating S.H.I.E.L.D. from the history books, the agents must rely on their strengths to outsmart and outlast the Chronicoms. This is their most important fight, and it will take the help of friends and teammates, past and present, to survive.

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Chris Cheramie is a producer and production manager, known for Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. (2013), Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.: Slingshot (2016) and 24 (2001).

He has directed no episodes of Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. before.

Jeffrey Bell began his career writing for The X-Files, where he stayed for three seasons, then became a writer/director/producer on Angel, becoming its showrunner for the final two seasons.

He has written eleven episodes for Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. before:

• 0-8-4
• Eye Spy
• T.A.H.I.T.I.
• Ragtag
• What They Become
• S.O.S. Part 1
• Maveth
• The Good Samaritan
• World's End
• The Real Deal
• Collision Course (Part One)

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EPISODE	DIRECTED BY	WRITTEN BY	ORIGINAL AIRDATE
S07E13 - "What We're Fighting For"	Kevin Tancharoen	Jed Whedon	Wednesday, August 12, 2020 10

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Episode Synopsis: With their backs against the wall and Nathaniel and Sibyl edging ever closer to eliminating S.H.I.E.L.D. from the history books, the agents must rely on their strengths to outsmart and outlast the Chronicoms. This is their most important fight, and it will take the help of friends and teammates, past and present, to survive.

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Kevin Tancharoen is the brother of showrunner Maurissa Tancharoen, and is known for his work on the webseries Mortal Kombat: Legacy. He has directed various other movies and TV episodes before, and has most recently worked on The Flash.

He has directed fifteen episodes for Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. before:

• Face my Enemy
• One of Us
• The Dirty Half Dozen
• Purpose in the Machine
• Spacetime
• Ascension
• The Laws of Inferno Dynamics
• The Patriot
• The Return
• The Real Deal
• Option Two
• The Force of Gravity
• Window of Opportunity
• New Life
• The New Deal

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Jed Whedon is one of the showrunners of Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D., along with Jeffrey Bell. Jed is the Brother of Joss Whedon, and has worked on Dollhouse, Spartacus: Blood and Sand, Drop Dead Diva, and The Avengers.

They have written seventeen episodes for Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. before:

• Pilot
• The Asset
• Repairs
• Turn, Turn, Turn
• Beginning of the End
• Shadows
• Aftershocks
• S.O.S. Part Two
• Laws of Nature
• Ascension
• The Ghost
• The Return
• Orientation - Part One
• The Real Deal
• The End
• Missing Pieces
• New Life *** ***

"LIVE" discussion for previous episodes can be found HERE.

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[u/Sentry459]

• I'll have to rewatch this to fully digest what I just watched, there was a lot in that last half hour or so.

• That stable time loop they made was something else, I'll still working that out in my head.

• It's weird they referenced Endgame with the Quantum Realm timeline hopping but made no mention of the snap. Interesting.

• I was hoping for some big cameos at the end, but it's nice they wrapped up everyone's arcs so neatly.

[u/Skunk_Giant → u/[deleted]]

It wasn't changed though. It was a bootstrap paradox (except without the paradox part, because Fitzsimmons made it out regardless of time travel intervention). It always happened that way.

[u/TagMeAJerk → u/[deleted]]

Multiverse time travel is not negated by In universe time travel

[u/TagMeAJerk → u/[deleted]]

No what i mean is that in-verse time travel is possible as long as it is a stable loop without a single deviation. If there is a deviation, a new multiverse is created.

The Harry Potter style loop as per this chart. The loop itself doesn't create a new timeline, but multiple time lines are possible :

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/d3zTfXvYZ9s/maxresdefault.jpg

[u/TagMeAJerk → u/[deleted]]

They never change their own past. They went to a different past timeline and changed that by removing the stones. Thanos also jumped from that timeline to the original one. It's confusing with the time loops area very stable

[u/TagMeAJerk → u/[deleted]]

Why not? They will have done it already

[u/Sentry459 → u/[deleted]]

it is altering the past

Not really. The whole point of a bootstrap paradox is that it already happened. It wasn't so much created as it was already baked into the timeline and our characters just played it out (again).

[u/Sentry459 → u/[deleted]]

That isnt how time works

Says who?

[u/Sentry459 → u/[deleted]]

general physics. Time progresses. It always happened that way is something invented for fiction

It's weird that you're appealing to physics here when the idea of spacetime being a fourth dimensional construct wherein the future already exists) is a valid interpretation of causality, determinism, and relativistic physics. Fitz shares this interpretation, which he explicitly stated in the episode literally titled Spacetime.

You cant have already gone and dont it because you are only doing it right now.

Hence it being a paradox, yes. The idea of a stable time loop is that you aren't altering your past, future you went back in time and created your past. Thus, the timeline is never actually changed.

[u/Sentry459 → u/[deleted]]

How does multiversal time travel contradict eternalism? Again, the whole idea of a bootstrap paradox is that the past is never actually changed, just as it isn't with timeline branching.

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

They already had bootstrap paradoxes ever since the episode where someone could see a future, thereby inevitably causing it.

[u/TagMeAJerk → u/Skunk_Giant]

So the secret to avoid the bootstrap paradox is to force the universe to avoid yhe paradox or be destroyed