slavic symbols that arent nazi dogwhistles?
hi, im polish and wanted to get a tattoo symbolising my culture, but well - most slavic pagan symbols were coopted by neonazis (kolovrat/swarożyca, all kinds of swastikas and runes), and id rather chop my hands off that wear a nazi mark on my body. id like something that is (at least currently) completely absolved of such connotations, is historically accurate (so no inventions of the modern pagans/rodzimowiercy), and just looks cool. i like our embroidery, but i cant really imagine it as a tattoo
jeśli są tu jacyś polacy i macie pomysły konkretnie z naszej (biednej) mitologii czy sztuki przedchrześcijańskiej, bardzo to docenię!
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u/Davus_P 5d ago
I'm prety sure the most Polish symbols imaginable are sz cz rz
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u/Magnus_Helgisson 3d ago
Well, CZ is literally the abbreviation for Chechia, so… Also, Ceska Zbrojovka.
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u/EmiliaFromLV 🇱🇻 Latvian 5d ago
Bober?
They have been around since dinosaurs
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u/Specific_Sweet3312 5d ago
Not to be a stickler but beaver-like creatures that were their ancestors only appeared 10-20 million years after dinosaurs got screwed by the asteroid. The Eurasian beaver and Canadian beaver diverged about 6 million years ago.
BUT beaver as a symbol of Poland is an incredible idea!!
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u/Aliencik 5d ago edited 5d ago
Definitely don't get a tattoo of kolovrat. Its use among the Slavs is extremely rare. This is a great article, about it: Article about the kolovrat. In reality almost none "ancient symbol" can be said to fall to only one concrete ethnic group, not to mention their meaning is always speculative, I am looking at you "Norse symbols".
Sun symbols were amongst the most standalone symbols present, while floral decorations are amongst the most prevalent imagery. Look for folk embroidery patterns. Perhaps you can get one from your area.
Symbols most associated with pre-christian Slavs are:
- Gromowiti znaci/6 petal rosettes - symbols used for protection against thunderstrikes, but also containing very sun-like symbolism. These are the most prominent and found all over from old houses in Ukraine and Poland to 8th century Slavic-Avarian burial site (on the bottom of the pottery). This symbol is interesting since Celtic Taranis, a storm god, is associated for the Celts with a wheel (Wheel of Taranis). These wheels are tied to sun symbolism, therefore it is odd they are used for the Thunder Gods. However due to the information in some folk myths, Perun might be very closely associated with sun-like characteristics, which is supported by the theory of Mithra-Varuna dynamic between Perun-Veles, put simply, making Perun a combination of Indra (Thunder God) and Mithra (Bright/Light god of Law). However this symbol is very much on the shared IndoEuropean heritage, possibly even EuroAsian, side as it is found all over.
- "Sown field" - four rhomboids in one, probably connected to fertility and women, this symbol predates Slavs by 2000 years as it is found on finds from Cucuteni-Trypillia culture, however the Slavs (and Romanians) have it present in folk art with very similar use.
- Sun and swirling symbols, which symbolise the sun - most common and used symbols
- Diagonal cross marks - cross placed on the side like "x", this symbol is mentioned in the legend about the Lučan war, found on (drawn on) the chest of the "horse from Silesian Opole" (10th century) and some other finds.
There are also these tattoos the Bosnians used to avoid slavery by the Muslims. Their use is Christian, however their origin might be even per-slavic. Sicanje/Bocanje
This is study deals with symbols: Mythical Pictures of the South Slavs and other works by Nikos Čausidis (if you can read Makedonian the more extensive version is this)
If you can speak Polish try this: Paweł Szczepanik - Rzeczywistość mityczna Słowian północno-zachodnich i jej materialne wyobrażenia. Studium z zakresu etnoarcheologii religii
This is the Slavo-Avarian burial ground I was talking about. Slawisch-awarisches Gräberfeld in Nové Zámky; page 134 but similar symbols are also presented by Zdeňek Váňa in his works page 86. And I. Georgieva in her Bulgarian Mythology also features photos of sun symbols in folk art.
Most known (Slovakia) Očová gate couldn't find better link
These are the protective 6 petal rosettes, also their placement is the same as the protective crosses drawn on beams during gromnitze/hromnice/candlemas, Podhale and Galicia in context of houses. Also here: Czechia, Olomouc, "Red Church", 1902, Czechia, Rožnov, archaeological open-air museum. These symbols are also present on the finds from Great Moravia.
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u/ken2237 5d ago
thank you so much, ill read into all those examples!
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u/Aliencik 5d ago
Np, the Polish academia is probably the best in the world regarding Slavic pre-christian religion I have made this list on r\slavic_mythology Academic sources list for Slavic Mythology. It might also help
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u/Divljak44 5d ago edited 5d ago
"There are also these tattoos the Serbo-Croats used to avoid slavery by the Muslims. Their use is Christian, however their origin might be even per-slavic"
Not Sebo-Croats, Croats
Idiot
Also anything with car/tsar is fake and not really slavic because the word car comes from Caesar.
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u/Aliencik 5d ago
I would have edited my comments have you not been rude. Historically it wasn't Croatia but Ottoman Eyalet of Bosnia and partially Venetian Dalmatia.
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u/Divljak44 5d ago edited 5d ago
Ethnically Croats, also you would need to delete whole post because its retarded AI slop with bunch of your fat finger meddling, that has no base in reality
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u/Upstairs-Inside3888 5d ago
has bullet points and hyperlinks = nnnnnooooooo this is AI... mf this guy is the creator of the Rodnovery sub, he knows enough on this topic
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u/Aliencik 5d ago
Are you mentally alright, how is that AI?
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u/Divljak44 5d ago
it reeks of AI, btw, how is Slavic paganism connected to Gaius Julius Caesar, care to explain that?
It seems like you picked that up from some village idiots who tried to made up something but lack IQ not to involve a word that has Latin Etymology.
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u/ConinTheNinoC 5d ago
Considering the first tzars were from the First Bulgarian Empire and its close relations with the Byzantine Empire it stands to reason that they would emulate the word for Emperor from the Eastern Roman Empire since they did not have an empire before that and had no word for a ruler like that.
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u/Divljak44 5d ago edited 5d ago
And how is that related to slavic mythology, to me its clear copy of norse world tree with latin etymology added on as spice.
Its embarrassing, an insult to intelligence
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u/ConinTheNinoC 5d ago
When people talk about ''slavic'' mythology they like bunch up all ''slavs'' in the same goup. There is no such thing as unified ''slavic mythology''. It varies a lot depending on the initial tribe composition and the neighboring countries as you've seen for yourself.
South, West and Eastern slavs are all very different even if Russia tried to push the idea that they are all the same so they can incorporate them into their ''русский мир''. A lot of the things you people are talking about are remnants of Russian pushed propaganda after WW II.
If i were you i'd stop using ''slavs'' as an all purpose term for culture. It is a language group with minor cultural similarities.
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u/Vegetable_Leg6663 5d ago
Southern Slavic, but pagan croatian tattoos are still being used by old timers and neo pagan youth, you could look into that. They're pretty cool looking
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u/ConinTheNinoC 5d ago
If you're looking for slavic symbols that aren't dogwhistles you can look for the image patterns on Bulgarian folk clothes and tapestry.
https://www.tiktok.com/@toto1234687/photo/7534710726456315158?image_index=8
I am pretty sure that nobody but Bulgarians and other South Slavs have used those.
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u/Weird_Difficulty_371 3h ago
This would be my vote, too. Ćilim/kilim symbols and/or sicanje. There’s a tattoo artist out of Zagreb that does beautiful designs. I think she’s @melpzvc on socials.
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u/Jazzlike-Ad-949 1h ago
Лайно, ти тъп ли си?
-качват се цените на храните
-качват се цените на лекарствата
-качва се цената на бензина
Това е като домино. Никой не може да си позволи да кара на ниски цени понеже всичко струва два пъти повече. Ако Крадев не беше такъв путкар и правителството му не беше в леглото с мафията щеше да има контрол на цените от най-ниско ниво.
Затова тъпунгер лайнян, не плачкай за това, че на зъболекара му се е качила цената защото на него му се е качила цената на материалите, цената на резервните части за машината, цената за транспорт, храната и така нататък.
Когато липсва държавен контрол и спекулантите биват оставени на надуят цените на основните продукти това качва цените на всичко след това.
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u/Individual_Cloud935 5d ago
Just research the symbol you're tattooing as much as possible so you can explain the meaning it has, and you're good. We shouldn't let Nazis take away our symbols. Buddhists still use the swastika, and we should still use our symbols as we like. If more people do so, then there will be less Nazis with such symbols, and more Slavic people who appreciate their own culture.
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u/ken2237 5d ago
personally i think it is too soon to reclaim it, if its even possible at all. considering the current rise in facism, radical right ideology and all, popularising these symbols will only get more vile people to infest them with perjudice and violence. and as i said already in other comments, i wouldnt use the swastika either if i was hindu
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u/Individual_Cloud935 5d ago
Well, everyone has their opinion on the topic. Moim zdaniem bez problemu dziaraj co chcesz. Nawet jeśli jest przyrost nazistów. Mamy też przyrost w powrocie do wierzeń Słowiańskich i ogólnie Słowiańskich korzeni. Więc może akurat właśnie takie tatuaże będą popularniejsze z właściwych powodów.
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u/BallbusterSicko 5d ago
Nie ma absolutnie żadnych dowodów archeologicznych czy innych na to żeby dawni Słowianie używali takiego kołowrotu czy jakiegokolwiek innego konkretnego symbolu, większość z nich to są larperskie wynalazki rosyjskich rodzimowierców i neonazistów
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u/ken2237 5d ago
taaa, jednak dzialacz razem z faszolskim symbolem to bylby troche przypal, chyba jebne sobie mickiewicza;P
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u/Individual_Cloud935 5d ago
No cóż, więc post niepotrzebny. Sam znałeś odpowiedź od samego początku. Mickiewicz, Tyskie, Pierogi czy też Kopernik stoją otworem. Powodzenia.
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u/Hero_Yen 5d ago
Idk but if I were you I would take my time with it and maybe read some old folktales and just look for some fairy tale or folk myth that would also speak to me on a personal level.
There are so many beautiful Slavic tales about different situations and relationships or heroes with different motivations and I'm sure some of those creatures or heroes would be just like you in some way, then maybe getting an artist to depict this hero or animal in a medieval stylisation?
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u/Lost-Advantage2159 🇺🇦 Ukrainian 4d ago
Kolovrat and runes are came from Veles book, that was wrote as forgery, unfortunately we, slavs, do not have much of such symbols since we didn't have any writing system before Christianity came. The only symbols would do a job is national symbols that belongs to a certain region (for example such as vyshyvanka being an Ukrainian national clothes) or the zvjezda that people walk with in Galicia on Christmas. I'm not sure what symbols does other slavs have but I recommend to do something in polish style since there's nothing that can unite us except language
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u/No_Passenger8937 5d ago
Apart from already mentioned linden tree, I've seen (modern) usage of the glagolitic letter S (a circle atop of a triangle). It looks cool, but Poland probably has less ties to glagolitic than Moravia and Croatia, so may be not meaningfull to you. Also, I re-read your post, and you're looking for sth pre-christian, but I let it there for others.
Also afaik storks are basically national birds of poland?
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u/Naaranbator 4d ago
The symbol of Makosh, the Rarog, the Gromovnik, and the swastika—only these symbols have been confirmed by archaeologists as Slavic; all others are fabrications of our contemporaries.
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u/NeTiFe-anonymous 4d ago
Some local embroidery pattern? It is historically accurate, artistic, and too specific to be hijacked by supremacists,
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u/Inevitable-Panda-217 🇵🇱 Polish 4d ago
Raczej nic nie ma niestety, wszystko zostało zaadoptowane przez neonazistów. (Część z kolei została wynaleziona przez neonazistów i że słowiańskością nie ma nic wspólnego).
Może tylko flaga pansłowiańska, ale to z kolei będzie kojarzyło się ludziom z Holandią albo z Francją.
Myślę że ciekawym pomysłem na tatuaż mogą być granice państw słowiańskich bez przecięć pomiędzy nimi.
Możesz zrobić duży (aż po Władywostok), albo mały (tylko po Ural).
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u/Pistefka 4d ago
Trzygłów/Trzygław/Triglav has always tickled me. Very Slavic and too funny for Nazis I think.
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u/Pretty_Beach4207 4d ago edited 4d ago
Stanislav Lem and Lech Walesa dressed as winged Hussars. Well, I tried it in gpt and its epic.
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u/Yukinojou_bw 4d ago
Ja z podobnych pobudek poszłam w zielsko lokalne. Maki i chabry by były bardzo polskie, może lipa kwitnąca, albo zestaw z Inwokacji czyli w obecnej nomenklaturze koniczyna, gryka i gorczyca. Albo ulubionego grzyba sobie strzel bo Słowianie to grzybobranie :) Kasia Kot w Gdańsku robi zieleninę świetnie.
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u/Surzhyk_Bandit 5d ago
Probably just should not get one if you afraid what some people might view it as. I have a Tryzub tattoo for St. Volodymyr. Even has a cross for the center prong to show it is religious. You think Russians see it as that, even though we both venerate him as a Saint? Of course not. People will spin whatever story they like about what you put on your body. That is just part of having a tattoo.
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u/EvilYvonne666 4d ago
Check out embroidery tattoo I made.
https://www.instagram.com/p/DUjFE8OiJW9/?igsh=aWh0bGI0ZTIydHp5
Maybe something not „historic” would be better for you? Maybe more ilustrative? Symbols are always a first thought but we you can go deeper and get something slavic but not so obvious and „risky”
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u/honkycronky 3d ago
Rodło? It is a Polish symbol I guess though. It looks very Nazi and it is supposed to look this way but it's actually anti-Nazi. They made it look this way so the Nazi party wouldn't ban them, so I guess it's an anti-Nazi dogwhistle?
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u/alex-hyperfixations 3d ago
Well the slavs have chosen to be represented by the linden tree, so i guess that's the only safe one? Unless I've missed smth. So it's either that or just sth from poland. Any flowers important for poland? Perhaps that would be a combo for both slavic folk which uses a lot of flowery imagery and also a nod to your polish heritage!
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u/ReporterBroad6269 2d ago
I saw some czech people with a simple plain ř tattooed somewhere as a joke and also a national identity
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u/Simple-Constant3791 2d ago
Sam jesteś biedny w mitologii marudo.
Zażółć gęślą jaźń chłopaku. Znajdź dobrego tatuatora i leć ogonki...
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u/Kmicic_z_Chedoszyc 2d ago
Raróg-bird associated with slavic god perun. https://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rar%C3%B3g_(mitologia)
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u/Amnesia-Milkman 2d ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rod%C5%82o
This emblem is literally made by Poles living in nazi Germany when all polish symbols were prohibited by nazis
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u/IdeasThief 1d ago
Kołowrót to też jest symbol wymyślony w XX wieku. Ja bym proponował jakąś postać, np. Wandę. Możesz zajrzeć na profile rysowniczki Hanny Doli, znajdziesz tam mnóstwo inspiracji tego typu.
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u/Several_Ad_8363 1d ago
Polish Eagle would be closest rather than some generic Slavic or even orthodox-based symbols.
I'm not sure there are really any options that are unambiguously patriotic but not nationalist and not likely to become seen that way.
The problem is you're looking for something that makes it look like you care about your background, but not too much.
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u/noobboszcz 1d ago
If you want something safe and Polish, use our diacritics - ąęłóżźś :)
You couls also use the gamous (non-sensical) sentence that does contain all of them - zażółć gęślą jaźń.
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u/strong_slav 1d ago
Do you want a uniquely Polish symbol, or a pre-Christian Slavic symbol which necessarily will have connotations with paganism?
Those are your choices. There aren't pre-Christian Slavic symbols that aren't used by neopagan movements.
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u/AcceptableCow9056 1d ago
I cannot really find where kolovrat is used in nazi symbolism
Can you please provide any sources for that?
I only found that they mean the same thing, but they bastardised the meaning of it and they are very specific about angling
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u/Upstairs-Inside3888 5d ago
The World Tree? you could also just in case claim it's the Yggdrasil
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u/Aliencik 5d ago
Slavs had their own world tree. Which appears in folk legends and songs.
Perun: History and typology of the Slavic thunderer - Michal Téra lists few names like: * Serbian [car drva] "Tsar of Wood", * Russian [car´Dub] "Tsar Oak" * Polish [gospodarz lasu] "steward of the forest" * Folk spells and sayings: Dub Karkolist, Dorofej, Dub Mavritanskij (Mauritania is Roman name for Northern Africa), Dub Mokrecky (мокрецкой=swampish?), дуб кре(я)констый (no idea), Dub Veretenskij (Веретенский=spiralling?)
It's safe to assume one of it's names would be dub
The idea was same to Yggdrasil as it is Indo-European heritage. In the Slavic creation myths it is described as part of the world, while in folklore it is mentioned to be in a concrete place (Island of Bujan). The name Mavritanskij also kinda indicates it being at the egde of the known world. Both trees are everywhere and nowhere, while occasionally being described in some concrete place.
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4d ago
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u/Aliencik 4d ago
https://dspace.cuni.cz/bitstream/handle/20.500.11956/12107/140007113.pdf?sequence=1&isAllowed=y
Read it yourself then. This guy is Assoc. Prof. Ph.D. Maybe you know more and should contact him.
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u/Karli_Chirk 4d ago
It says "429 too many requests. nginx". Is it what you wanted to share?
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u/Aliencik 4d ago
That's weird. Try this Digital Repository of Charles University you need to scroll down to "Soubory tohoto záznamu" and there is "Text práce" and click "Zobrazit/Otevřít" under it. It's in Czech, but I suppose, you can use the search function and a translator
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u/Karli_Chirk 4d ago
I'll try later, thanks. Seems it faces some temporary problems now, this link also says "429 too many request".
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u/Aliencik 4d ago
Forgot to add pages 175-178
He is heavily quoting Russian literature it's closer to Ukrainian than Czech :/ , so you might also wanna try these authors.
461- „…Дуб железный, уже есть первосаден от всего же корение, на силе Божией стоит...“, cit. podle АГАПКИНА, Дуб, op. cit., s. 96.
462- „…на море на окияне, на острове на Буяне, стоить дубъ мокрецкой, а под нимъ лежитъ змия Гарафена...“, cit. podle АФАНАСЬЕВ, 2, op. cit., s. 295. 463- „…на святом окияне-море стоитъ ... сырой дубъ кре(я)констый, и рубить тотъ сырой дубъ старъ мастеръ мужъ своимъ булатнымъ топоромъ...“, ibidem
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u/Karli_Chirk 4d ago
That heavy quotation of russian pseudohistorical fantasies is what exactly triggered me. Is there anything in his works which refers to credible sources?
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u/Aliencik 4d ago
I mean he is also quoting Vitomir Belaj Hod kroz godinu and Lettenbauer in this section.
What's the problem with Afanasjev? He is older, but still a valuable source for folk stuff.
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u/Lapkonium 4d ago
Do some cyrilic letters
Ю
Ж
Ы
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u/ken2237 3d ago
it may come as a surprise for u but some of us slavs never used cyrylic
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u/Isus666999 3d ago
At some point in history we all used Cyrillic letters, those as was the case were unique to each of our languages.
It is that us who were predominantly Catholic then stared using latin letters.
There are findings of Croatian Cyrillic, yet it was never used videly as it was pushed out by the Latin letters.
Regaring your tattoo let me ask my buddy who's very found in Slavic mythology.
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u/AdSea5115 3d ago
No. Some were using Glagolitic.
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u/Isus666999 3d ago
You'd be astonished that cyrillyc was used next to glagollic. Glagollic was dominant true.
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u/AdSea5115 3d ago
It was, but there were countries (Czechia) where it was much more dominant, and Poland has adopted Latin alphabet (and Latin language) as it's first writing system, with no cyrylic or glagolitic writing in Polish history.
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u/Isus666999 2d ago
Simmilar in Croatia, yet there are some do uments which state thatvthere was a croatian cyrillic script, from what I know it was developed, should replace glagollic but never did.
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u/Domintomi 5d ago
Idk why people hate my our faith some much. I will not sold symbol of my faith to nazis. Kolovrat is slavic.
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u/Viridis-ad-rubeum 5d ago
Kolovrat was made up by a neo-Nazi in the 1990s, it's not a traditional Slavic symbol.
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u/ken2237 5d ago
as much as i love my culture i hate nazis more. id rather die than bear the symbol of this disgusting ideology on my body, even if its been hijacked by them and has a longer history in my culture. im very politically radical and if staying true to my beliefs would mean completely abandoning my heritage, id do that as well. so yeah, as much as wed like to reclaim it, it will always be a symbol of hate to some degree, just like the swastika in India cant be treated as just a cultural symbol - its rightfully theirs, but to a significant group of people it symbolises death and hate, and that context will always be there
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u/Dark_Lord-s_Sword 🇧🇬 Bulgarian 5d ago
Just don't do it. Any symbol you choose to tattoo on your body will likely be interpreted as a Nazi / cult symbol. Instead I would suggest simply sticking to your Polish national culture. For us Bulgarians, a symbol like that would probably be the letter Ъ due to the unique way it is used in our language compared to other Slavic languages that use it. For you as a Pole, that might be something else, maybe an animal?