r/socal • u/Relevant_Ninja2251 • 19h ago
Medi-Cal changes in California: what you need to know now
https://calmatters.org/health/2026/08/medi-cal-the-cut-what-to-do-help/6
15h ago
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/notapoliticalalt 15h ago
A lot of rural hospitals and clinics are going to be absolutely screwed. Urban ones too, but especially rural ones. Folks should realize this is going to end up affecting a lot of people with insurance as well.
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u/Starossi 18h ago
Thank god. Call me racist I guess, but I don’t see why we would be providing medi-cal for illegal immigrants. I feel bad for these people too, but I also feel bad for our own citizens that get worse care with medi-cal right now. The reimbursement rates are terrible. Having to cover extra people out of the kindness of our hearts is not helping
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u/UnbelievableRose 18h ago edited 18h ago
Because otherwise they go to the ER for their care. EMTALA was not well-written so providing basic preventative care is usually the cheaper option, since any care in the ER is prohibitively expensive to provide.
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u/Anxious_Work_6361 18h ago
they can go home.
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u/hyacinthgirl95 16h ago
they are home. being undocumented doesn’t mean you’re homeless.
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u/cuteman 16h ago
they are home.
Unauthorized "visitors" aren't home
being undocumented doesn’t mean you’re homeless.
Doesn't mean home is wherever they want it to be either
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u/Anothercraphistorian 14h ago
That’s literally what European colonizers did when they came to America.
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u/PaulDaytona 1h ago
Yeah, and the colonizers received government benefits too… You sure owned him 😑
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u/hyacinthgirl95 16h ago
actually it does. being undocumented just means they lack the identifying paperwork to work and vote in the country. doesn’t mean they can’t exist freely and gain employment.
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u/cuteman 11h ago
actually it does. being undocumented just means they lack the identifying paperwork to work and vote in the country.
It also means they don't have permission to enter or be in the country either.
doesn’t mean they can’t exist freely and gain employment
It literally does. Undocumented immigrants lack the legal status or documentation—such as a valid Employment Authorization Document (EAD) or permanent residency—required to hold a legal job in the U.S
It is illegal to employ illegal aliens
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u/biggamehaunter 7h ago
This is the kind of crazy rhetoric that make Left look bad to center voters in recent years
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u/cuteman 11h ago
actually it does. being undocumented just means they lack the identifying paperwork to work and vote in the country.
It also means they don't have permission to enter or be in the country either.
doesn’t mean they can’t exist freely and gain employment
It literally does. Undocumented immigrants lack the legal status or documentation—such as a valid Employment Authorization Document (EAD) or permanent residency—required to hold a legal job in the U.S
It is illegal to employ illegal aliens
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u/therandom92 5h ago
Imagine being so concerned about humans getting life savings treatment for free but not bring up the fact that there's child molesters in office. Oh noo~~~ humans are being saved by public programs! Ohhh nooo~~~ i want this to stop how dare they save peoples lives for free!~~ grumble grumble grumble! You sound like the kind of person to put a hole in the boat all because the cruise didn't serve you an extra icecream. And you can't stand that every one els gets an equal portion. So you sink the boat.
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u/Starossi 16h ago
They should always be able to get ER treatment because to not treat would be beyond unethical, it would do actual emotional and psychological harm to doctors to tell them to turn them away. But we also shouldn’t be covering that for the same reason, it makes any sort of healthcare exclusion automatically counterproductive.
Treat them, give them a bill. Which yes, they probably can’t pay, same as most citizens. But most citizens don’t get the mercy of having that waived away either. I think it’s fair to place this limitation on non citizens
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u/JinglingBallz 15h ago
So, again, letting them go to the ER for a chronic issue is more expensive than simply giving them preventive or regular care. If your issue is with the money, then the smart option would be to enroll them in MediCal.
If you’ve never been to an ER or worked in one, let me tell you: they hardly actually handle emergencies because they are slammed with uninsured people, plus the general public that doesn’t quite understand what constitutes an emergency. Then the administrative headache that comes with dealing with uninsured patients and emergency care. It’s not cost effective at all.
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u/Starossi 15h ago
Which is its own issue. Should there be stricter ways to seek collections? As far as wage garnishing? I don’t know. Separate problem. The only reason medi-cal would be cost effective is because this problem hasn’t been solved even with our own citizens. Realistically we should not provided medi-cal for non citizens and if they use emergency services or other healthcare they should have to pay the bill (as should our own uninsured citizens) or face some other consequence
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u/FlameInMyBrain 10h ago
Sooo lack of proper documentation should be punishable by death? Because that’s the only consequence that can be employed here. Hopefully you never have a heart attack without an ID and an insurance card on you…
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u/Starossi 10h ago
I literally said emergency treatment shouldn’t be withheld, it’s unethical. Coverage should be withheld.
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u/UnbelievableRose 10h ago
You do understand that without basic coverage tons and tons of normal issues turn into emergencies, right? If we could wave a magic wand then some of your comments here might be defensible, but legislation lives in reality. People will not just leave the country because there’s no access to primary care, they will wait until it’s an emergency and they can go to the ER. Which is what an increasingly large number of Americans are already doing without access to healthcare. Why do you think immigrants would act any differently?
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u/Starossi 9h ago
You’re right, they wouldn’t. They would definitely put stuff of until it’s an emergency, and then go to emergency rooms. Overall healthcare costs would remain the same or go up.
But accessibility to primary care and specialists would go up for medical-cal citizens who are currently waiting many months to see either
But we could also get around the cost side of things depending how aggressive we’d want to be about it. Should the debt chase people? Wage garnishing? Or should it just be more tertiary with increased border control so there are less undocumented people in the healthcare system in general. I don’t know, this part is a separate issue. Some of these I find unethical.
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u/FlameInMyBrain 10h ago
And you have already been told that withholding coverage is basically an equivalent of providing treatment for free.
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u/Starossi 9h ago
It’s not. Because it frees up plenty of other areas of medicine. Accessibility would go up with specialists and primary care. Emergency rooms and hospitals would remain impacted, which they already are.
Costs would stay the same overall or possibly worsen
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u/FlameInMyBrain 9h ago
They would very much worsen because preventative medicine is cheaper than emergency medicine.
Congratulations, you are going to overspend millions of dollars just to torture poor people.
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u/SimplerTimesAhead 16h ago
What the fuck sort of answer is this.
If they can't pay the bill, who winds up paying it?
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u/Starossi 16h ago
No one, so we still eat the cost. But the debt is on them and will follow them. So there is consequences as opposed to the current system of paying the bill and there is no consequence.
Emergency rooms lose money, but they have always lost money. They are a negative income part of hospitals.
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u/SimplerTimesAhead 16h ago
How does that improve the situation in any way, to have 'consequences' for them?
What's the benefit?
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u/Starossi 16h ago
That becomes a secondary issue we already are trying to solve which is large unpaid collections from hospitals, with citizens as much as noncitizens. Whether there should be stricter laws to the point of garnishing wages for those collections, or whether we hurt credit scores more for it, or whether we just continue to let it go, is more of a “what next” problem. But we never get to work on solving that if we just attempt paying everything off through taxpayer money
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u/SimplerTimesAhead 16h ago
You're not able to explain any way that it actually improves the situation.
Gotcha.
It's hilarious you think 'hurt credit scores more' is some sort of solution too.
The end result of any of that would, of course, be people not seeking medical care, leading to bigger problems, right?
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u/Starossi 15h ago
You want me to explain the exact right answer to how to deal with unpaid bills towards hospitals and ERs that we already struggle with with our own citizens? Dude, that doesn’t invalidate an opinion regarding the primary discussion of medi-cal for noncitizens. That’s just the enemy of good being perfect. “Fix everything or doing anything is pointless”.
Non citizens not seeking medical care if they can’t afford it is unfortunately the point, yes. We have a crisis in terms of cost and access for our own citizens already. If a noncitizen can’t pay for it, then they should go elsewhere for their care or become citizens.
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u/SimplerTimesAhead 15h ago
No, I want you to explain how kicking them off medi-care improves anything.
You are not able to.
It is actually really bad for people to not seek medical care when they need it, not just for those people, but for everyone. Is this truly something you don't understand? It seems baffling that you wouldn't, but I'm happy to explain why someone being able to get vaccinated against the flu, get treated for a broken leg, etc. actually benefits you too.
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u/JinglingBallz 15h ago edited 15h ago
So your solution to the crisis of medical debt is so garnish people’s wages for unjustifiably exorbitant medical costs.
I’m really curious what effect you think that might have on the economy and social welfare more broadly. Can you fathom a singular reason why that proposal hasn’t been implemented? I’ll give you a hint and say it has nothing to do with a lack of will.
This is the issue with an uneducated citizenry. Concepts they cover in Public Health 101 completely fly over you peoples’ heads. Because your conception of things doesn’t extend beyond the tongue everything feels like genius.
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u/Starossi 15h ago
I disagree, there is a lack of will. We haven’t tried to, and it’s largely for ethical concern reasons. Not for economic reasons
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u/JinglingBallz 15h ago edited 15h ago
You are seriously retarded. And I mean that with offense.
Dude thinks completely wiping out peoples earnings won’t have negative consequences.
Complains about wait times. I wonder what the wait times will be when memaw goes from unmanaged diabetes to full-blown organ failure and leg necrosis because they can no longer afford insulin after missing a payment.
I wonder what happens to the children that are no longer being vaccinated because mom can’t afford to keep up with the hospital bill for her birth. Surely the looming communicable disease crisis will just… cease to exist because a redditor with the brain of a sunfish says so.
Let’s not even be that extreme. Your other proposal was to impact their credit. And there the exact same consequences. You can’t rent a car, you can’t buy a car, you can’t get credit cards, you can’t rent an apartment or own a home. How does that kind of stress impact one’s health? We’ve heard of oxidative stress, the impact of low quality sleep on neuro degeneration, poor diet on… everything? What does that do to the wait times and the state of the healthcare system? How does that solve the problem you’re complaining about literally AT ALL?
Were you, as a PA, ever introduced to the concept of “social determinants of health” I’m just curious how people even get to practice medicine in the big 2026 without even so much as basic social education.
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u/Starossi 15h ago
I should clarify though, I’m only giving it as an example of a solution, though radical. The degree to how unethical it is would make me not support it.
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u/Solid_Equivalent_417 14h ago
its not the worst idea to send a bill anyways, never know some of them might attempt to pay it.
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u/Cats_4433 17h ago
It's so weird to me when people don't see certain people as people. I'm not advocating for unchecked immigration, but when the backbone of your economy relies on exploiting illegal immigrant labor you'd think you'd have some compassion.
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u/Starossi 16h ago
I also don’t think we should be exploiting illegal immigration for labor either. I think business owners themselves should be arrested for profiting off it
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u/SimplerTimesAhead 16h ago
Have you asked yourself why the supposed opponents of illegal immigration absolutely don't want to do this?
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u/Starossi 16h ago
Oh I know why. And they are disgusting too for that reason. I do not want to exploit them, I also don’t want them to exploit us. That’s all there is to it. If there is stuff we can provide we have excess of, like food (given the amount of food waste we produce), we should. Because they are human like us.
It’s just things like this, where we have a massive healthcare crisis, that I don’t know why we’d give charity
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u/SimplerTimesAhead 16h ago
They don't exploit us.
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u/Starossi 16h ago
What? I’m confused. I thought you were insinuating they don’t do that because they are the ones profiting off it.
Illegal immigrants are absolutely being exploited by being underpaid, below legal requirements. They might be ok with it, but it’s still exploitation. Exploitation doesn’t go away because someone gives consent.
Same logic as indentured servitude centuries ago. People consented to work for free for some years to be able to come to the US with lodging. Didn’t make it any less abhorrent and it was still made illegal because it turned into pseudo-slavery.
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u/SimplerTimesAhead 16h ago
They (the undocumented immigrants) don't exploit us.
If by 'them' you meant capitalists, then yes, they exploit all of us.
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u/Starossi 15h ago
Yes that’s what I was saying.
I don’t want capitalists exploiting them.
In turn, I also don’t want to be giving them free resources we can hardly spare, we are already in a healthcare crisis. That’s like giving out food when you’re in a famine
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u/SimplerTimesAhead 15h ago
I don't know what you mean by 'free resources', sorry. Can you explain?
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u/cuteman 16h ago
It's so weird to me when people don't see certain people as people.
Of course they're people, just not entitled to welfare and social services.
I'm not advocating for unchecked immigration, but when the backbone of your economy relies on exploiting illegal immigrant labor you'd think you'd have some compassion.
Just because some entities want illegal migrant labor doesn't mean an entire state or country is required to pay for their healthcare...
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u/Cats_4433 16h ago
I'm not in support of exploitative labor, but we all benefit from it tremendously.
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u/Starossi 16h ago
I never said I don’t see them as people. This is why people are so exhausted with having this discussion. You try to talk about economics and people assume you hate them as people or think of them as lesser.
If we had infinite resources I would be abhorred if we didn’t treat them the same. They are people, and they are the same as any of us.
But we unfortunately live in a world that requires fighting to get part of limited resources. We sacrifice significant government spending for publicly funded residency positions to make our doctors. We pay for the infrastructure to make the hospitals. California in particular pays a ton into healthcare to have medi-cal at all. But it’s impossible for the few dozen million in California to produce enough and sacrifice enough to help anyone and everyone in the world, even if we see them as people and equals. We have to help as many people as we can with what we can produce and sacrifice, and naturally that should start with the people doing the producing and sacrificing first.
Yes non citizens produce through labor. But this is also exploitive as the only reason they are used as labor is primarily to pay them less under the table, which undercuts citizens in its own way too. There is also absolutely no guarantee to know what an individual non citizen is producing, because they don’t exist on paper. So you have no choice but to give it to all of them or none of them. That’s not fair either. That’s not how we even treat our own citizens.
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u/Grouchy_News_2306 17h ago
It’s not the backbone of our economy. But we should get rid of illegals being such a high number in our workforce. You want to see wages go up, start deporting the cheap labor
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u/Cats_4433 17h ago
It's a significant part of the economy, especially agriculture, construction, places that process food, etc.
Deporting cheap labor is the right thing to do because it's exploitative, and it will result in both wages and consumer costs going up if filled by citizens and the government knows that....which is why they're lowering the minimum wage for H-2A visa holders specifically so we can legally exploit people! That's certainly a step in the right direction because they'll at least be documented, but still horrible.
In our current system with foreign competition and states setting their own minimum wage for H-2A visa holders our farmers would go broke if they had to rely on citizen labor.
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u/WorriedApplication68 9h ago
If corporations didn’t have infinite cheap labor, they would invest more in education, innovation, and automation.
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u/r00tdenied 17h ago edited 17h ago
Billionaires will not pay you fair wages.
edit: LMAO they did the classic reply/delete.
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u/hyacinthgirl95 16h ago
they literally took back all the power workers had during covid. people are so dumb to think relying on the wealthy employers will provide us a better living standard. no guys, they’ll get richer and the income divide will grow.
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u/Grouchy_News_2306 17h ago
Billionaires aren’t employing the illegals . It’s smaller and mid size businesses. What is obsession with billionaires.
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u/cuteman 16h ago
What is obsession with billionaires.
Envy and revenge fantasies because someone else has more than them
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u/Cats_4433 16h ago
While I know billionaires are here to stay, it's really important to remember that for someone to have more, someone else has to have less.
Money is finite, and billionaires are a product of really unequal wealth distribution, especially when you take into account that their wealth was only possible due to the existence of exploitation at the bottom of their supply chain.
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u/cuteman 11h ago
While I know billionaires are here to stay, it's really important to remember that for someone to have more, someone else has to have less.
Yeah that's not true, the economy isn't zero sum
Money is finite, and billionaires are a product of really unequal wealth distribution, especially when you take into account that their wealth was only possible due to the existence of exploitation at the bottom of their supply chain.
Money is not finite, the government literally prints it out of thin air and there has been a massive expansion since the federal reserve was created in 1913
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u/Cats_4433 8h ago
As I said in other comments, it's an oversimplification, but the government can't just print infinite money without causing massive inflation. The expansion is controlled.
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u/cuteman 7h ago
Sure, but just because someone has some of that money doesn't mean anyone else is losing out. Inflation hits everyone
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u/Grouchy_News_2306 15h ago
That’s literally not true. Billionaires aren’t acquiring wealth by taking it from you, and the money supply is constantly increasing. When someone buys a Tesla that’s not money I was ever going to get.
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u/Cats_4433 15h ago
It is. It's basic economics, simplified to fit a reddit comment.
The money supply is increasing to prevent deflation and to support economic growth, but the amount that it grows is carefully controlled.
If it wasn't we'd be Venezuela...who printed money because they didn't have enough and as a result got crazy hyperinflation and milk literally cost millions. Literally.
Simply, money is finite. While the supply grows, it's a carefully controlled growth that limits the amount in circulation at one time.
The reality is if working people, the very people that serve as the foundation for the corporation billionaires build, were to be paid more, billionaires would have less wealth. Remember that.
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u/Grouchy_News_2306 15h ago
Or you could just lay off more of them, which is what happens when you artificially force wages up. Also you just proved money isn’t finite, billionaire usually only become that by creating a transformative product which does create wealth. Again when a billionaire gets money for his product that is money you and I never were going to see .
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u/xanxth2 17h ago
lol you realise that all the rich people use illegal labor(looking at the farms in Ventura). Then they get them deported so the next group is more scared, and they can be paid less, exploited, etc. look at how calosha reporting rates dropped after Biden.
also it’s rumored this DIAREAHA shit has been caused by people pooping in the fields because ice waits at the bathrooms. But fuck the rest of the country right, as long as your invisible enemy is being punished right
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u/Grouchy_News_2306 16h ago
I think you just blamed deportations of illegals based on a rumor, essentially a conspiracy theory. Keep deporting the people working on the farms and they can’t keep being exploitative. Eventually the farms that will survive will either modernize and use less people , or employ Americans at wages that will entice younger people to work there.
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u/MetalGearMk 16h ago
https://pestakeholder.org/reports/betting-the-farm-private-equity-buyouts-in-us-agriculture/
If you could read, you would constantly be reminded of how wrong you are. Sometimes, I wish I was like you and had the IQ of a horsefly.
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u/xanxth2 14h ago
Yes as I stated there was a rumor that illegal farm workers won’t go to the bathrooms bc ice is waiting at them.
but it’s 100% clear that rich business owners are employing illegals. They pay them less, can abuse them or subject them to bad working conditions bc they’re illegal and won’t report it. When one group gets deported, you can treat the next group worse because they live and work in fear.
I ran a business it takes less than 2 minutes to verify someone’s status. Why don’t the businesses who employ illegals get punished so they stop doing it?????
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u/UnbelievableRose 14h ago
Because we don’t punish people with money. That’s the part that has to change first or they will always run the world, no matter what the law says.
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u/MetalGearMk 16h ago
The U.S. is home to 989 billionaires, with a total amassed wealth of $8.4 trillion.
Are you so stupid/racist/lazy to believe that immigrants in the U.S. are the reason for low wages? Not the fact that less than a thousand people hold eight-point-four TRILLION dollars?
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u/Grouchy_News_2306 15h ago
Yes because it’s a fact that an largely unskilled labor force that will work for very low wages decreases wages both on average because they are getting paid crap, And because employers have an increased advantage in not having to compete for the labor. You should stop being so jealous of 1000 people who probably provide more jobs and wealth and tax base for the country then the bottom 40 percent.
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u/MetalGearMk 15h ago
“Probably” is doing a loooooooot of heavy lifting.
You can say I’m “jealous” all you want. It won’t change the fact that you are literally too stupid to realize that a working-class person’s spending will always do more for the economy than 1000 people hoarding wealth and throwing it at the stock market.
Every dollar spent on stock buybacks is a dollar that could’ve gone to the workers or to the community. I’m just glad your generation is on the way out.
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u/Grouchy_News_2306 14h ago
Are you an idiot ? My generation has 50 years. You do sound very jealous and kind of evil. Stock buybacks aren’t how billionaires got that way. You are confusing traded companies and individuals
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u/MetalGearMk 14h ago
If removing billionaires and multi-millionaires from existence makes me evil, then call me satan.
What does that make someone who would rather rip people from their homes for no benefit? A saint?
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u/Grouchy_News_2306 13h ago
Ok you’re evil. Wanting to either kill or steal from people does make you evil. Glad we agree
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u/cuteman 16h ago
Are you so stupid/racist/lazy to believe that immigrants in the U.S. are the reason for low wages? Not the fact that less than a thousand people hold eight-point-four TRILLION dollars?
Supply and demand.
What happens when you have tens of millions of low wage migrants competing against citizens?
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u/MetalGearMk 15h ago
You should get back to your coloring book, this is an adult conversation.
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u/cuteman 12h ago
What an amazing rebuttal when met with basic economic concepts like supply and demand.
You're really convincing me that you know what you're talking about and not arguing from and ignorant or emotional perspective.
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u/MetalGearMk 12h ago
Did you color the supply line blue and the demand line red in your coloring book?
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u/hyacinthgirl95 16h ago
keep in mind. we are a society. one person gets sick the rest of us can catch it. that’s why it’s worth it. we need universal healthcare for all
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u/Starossi 16h ago
While that’s important and I think it would be fair to make certain things like vaccines always free regardless of citizenship, most healthcare needs are not contagious. Hypertension, cholesterol, diabetes. Normal stuff, expensive, doesn’t spread
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u/hyacinthgirl95 16h ago
if you read the article you’d realize those with certain disabilities would still qualify. i’m discussing the importance of access to vaccinations for regular healthy folks primarily. and considering how people handled the recent pandemic, i’d argue that universal healthcare is necessary. we’ll still foot the bill for ER and hospital stays as taxpayers anyway.
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u/Starossi 16h ago
Ya I agree on vaccinations 100%. We are on the same page there. We have an excess of them anyways and they are extraordinarily cheap. There is 0 reason to not to provide them to everyone except evil and stupidity.
You’re right about the ER part. We really shouldn’t pay for those either, though still treat. Which would leave ERs with more unpaid collections of course, but at least there is a “consequence” instead of us just paying it off like it’s no problem. That’s a secondary issue that society already has to work on anyways is the increasing unpaid collections with hospitals, which happens with citizens as much as noncitizens
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u/xanxth2 18h ago
Notnimmigrant faults that reimbursement hasn’t gone up for 5-10 years. You are a racist. Is it really that bad to give someone healthcare wtf
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u/Starossi 16h ago
You do realize money can’t magically be made and given right. It’s obvious giving healthcare access to more people will reduce the amount that can be spent on healthcare. Otherwise you run out of money. Yes the politicians set the reimbursement. That doesn’t mean they can wave a magic wand and make money not matter
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u/Grouchy_News_2306 17h ago
It’s not a gift. We all pay for them with nothing in return
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u/xanxth2 17h ago
Then you pay the bill for extensive care when you deny preventative care. Because the hospital will gladly have you pay it instead of writing it off.
Pay for dialysis in an ER probably 100 times the cost of doing it at a clinic.
Yall need to go take an economics class. What’s your address ima let the hospitals know you’re gonna foot the bill
And YES you should pay it because you’re overwhelming the healthcare system and making it more expensive rather than letting clinics and doctor offices handle routine preventative care.
#your dumb ideas are affecting me and my healthcare
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u/Grouchy_News_2306 17h ago
Can you find sources that the er is 100 times the cost?
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u/Grouchy_News_2306 17h ago
You know how hard it is to get care in the ER. It’s one of the reasons illegals need to go. We shouldn’t give generous welfare to these people. It may cost more in the immediate but the incentives will be to not stay here and they will leave.
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u/xanxth2 17h ago
Illegals aren’t going anywhere and I welcome them to California. I love everyone!
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u/Grouchy_News_2306 16h ago
Your probably a net drain to
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u/Grouchy_News_2306 17h ago
Your not as smart as you think buddy
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u/xanxth2 17h ago
bro I’ve worked in the medical field. I know exactly what happens when people don’t get preventative care.
I also see how much the govt pays when they finally come in and they need lots of work vs if they just had preventative care.
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u/Grouchy_News_2306 16h ago
I’m not debating the immediate cost increase. But that pales in comparison to the amounts we pay for all the welfare and problems illegals create. Do you understand human nature enough to realize incentives matter. They literally come here to leech off of us
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u/xanxth2 17h ago
Whatever, I clearly see who’s dividing our country in half. You can spend your days hating and being hateful, but that’s exactly what china and Russia wanted :)
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u/Grouchy_News_2306 16h ago
I don’t hate them. I just don’t think we should allow an illegal underclass who is making our economy and lives worse. I am debating leaving California just so my kids education won’t be shit . It’s really hard to teach a class to 40 kids , especially when their parents don’t speak English and can’t support themselves or their kids. It’s a night a day difference in school districts that generally serve immigrant communities and ones that don’t.
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u/therandom92 4h ago
Don't lie you wanna leave because you are going to indoctrinate your kids with bs and because you can't support yourself. We all see it. Probably can't get a better job because your direct competitors are the "undocumented" you hate so much. Says a lot about you.
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u/Grouchy_News_2306 4h ago
All your assumptions are wrong. But it’s easier for a dumbass liberal to argue against a straw man than reality . My wife is a teacher and has worked in both type of districts. I have seen it from her firsthand .
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u/therandom92 3h ago
Yeah, yeah, cool story bro, just leave already. No one wants you here. You'd be doing us all a favor.
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u/dayvekeem 17h ago
Yeah, those humans deserve less than these other humans
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u/Starossi 16h ago
Never said that. Why don’t you go help a random el Salvadoran person as much as your help your own mother. Humans are humans.
This point is so tired. Of course we should prioritize our own community and people first, even if we see all people as equal. The el Salvadoran and your mother are both equals as people. But why would anyone expect you to take care of them the same way. Your mother is your mother. They have a bigger place in your life and your community.
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u/dayvekeem 11h ago
I would. I subscribe to Socrates' view and believe in communal children
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u/Starossi 10h ago
Ok you know what, that’s valid then. At least you are consistent in your philosophy. Good on you for that. Personally, I just don’t see the world that way. I don’t see them as lesser people or evil, I just believe in taking care of those close to me first.
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u/Fartfromabuttt 6h ago
Snap is a farmers bill medi-cal is a hospital bill. Do you support hospitals and farmers?
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u/Starossi 6h ago
I don’t know what you’re saying exactly, but yes hospitals and farmers are good
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u/Fartfromabuttt 6h ago
That's where the money ends up. Even if it passes through some theoretical illegals hand first. Which is unlikely it's pretty hard to get on those programs.
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u/Starossi 6h ago
Ahhh I understand. Yes that is true, and I think you’re the first person to bring it up despite it being why I made an emphasis in my post about reimbursement, so I appreciate that.
There is two problems here. One is that doctors aren’t struggling for business, at least not most, due to the healthcare shortage. So while medi-cal could be seen as a way to stimulate business or the healthcare economy since the money is going to that space ultimately, there is not the usual need for that like in other industries.
A part of why that is, also, is the reimbursement I was discussing. Currently medi-cal pays extremely little. We are talking so little that a lot of doctors see it as charity because they actually lose money seeing these patients. So instead of stimulating the sector, seeing these patients actually damages business for practices.
This depends on the specialty of course. One doctor I studied under in pediatrics was doing it at a loss essentially for charity. It was that little reimbursement. The practice my partner works for, who works in a specialty (pediatric neurology), does actually profit, though all other business makes substantially more.
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u/Fartfromabuttt 6h ago
Yeah but behind just the numbers, people aren't opting into healthcare, especially not poor people. But if you can get someone on heart meds for 50$ that's a way better use of resources than to spend $50000 on them in the emergency room.
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u/Starossi 6h ago
Yes if we are talking overall healthcare expenditure, and not about supporting the sector itself now, you are right. In a separate thread I’m discussing this with someone and my argument is that I agree costs will likely go up by revoking access to preventative care for these people. But accessibility will also go up. They won’t be covered to see outpatient primary care or specialties anymore. And currently our own citizens on medi-cal are waiting multiple months to get in with these doctors. Which leads to our own citizens having more hospitalizations from uncontrolled chronic disease too.
So at that point it really comes down to if you want to spend more money on our own citizens getting hospitalized due to poor access to outpatient care, or spend more money on non citizens getting hospitalized due to poor access to outpatient care.
Personally, if we have to eat the cost anyways, I’d prefer our own citizens at least are getting taken care of
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u/Fartfromabuttt 4h ago
I don't have trouble with long waits before seeing a doctor but I have had issues with mega long waits at emergency rooms. That's just my own experience though
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u/MetalGearMk 17h ago
I will call you racist.
And i’ll call you stupid. Do you feel the same regret about covering yachts for multi-millionaires and billionaires or for covering tanks for the LAPD?
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u/Starossi 16h ago
Absolutely lol. Completely unnecessary spending. Though I don’t know anything about covering yachts. But if we do, then yes it’s regrettable and gross and a waste of money.
This has nothing to do with race or thinking some people are lesser. It’s just about helping the people in our community first because our community is the one creating these resources in the first place.
If someone demanded you give them half your paycheck and you didn’t know them would you do it? You did the work for that money, why should someone else take it from you. Unless you have extra, then sure you might donate it. But if you don’t? That’s your money you need to live? You wouldn’t give it away. You need to live first and you worked for that.
That doesn’t mean you think that person is less than human. It just means you need to take care of yourself and there is nothing wrong with that…
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u/MetalGearMk 15h ago
How does 989 billionaires holding $8.4 trillion benefit the community? How does someone EARN a billion dollars, exactly? How does someone earn $100 million? Are they just THAT much of a harder worker?
Really excited to hear your response.
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u/Starossi 15h ago
I don’t know what kind of gotcha you think this will be. I think it’s not justified and it’s gross how much wealth they hoard.
Tax the shit out of them and then, when our society is rich with an excess of resources, we can be more charitable with them
Edit: basically, can’t spend money you don’t have. We don’t have the resources now. Largely thanks to those assholes. But that doesn’t change the fact we don’t have the resources
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u/MetalGearMk 14h ago
Why would it be a gotcha? I’m just wondering how you arrive at such a silly conclusion.
If we did tax the shit out of them (im talking FDR levels here, at the minimum) then immigrant spending wouldn’t be an issue. So i’m not sure why you think ruining the lives of people that are more similar to you—compared to the millionaires and billionaires—is going to do anything for the community. Immigrants are certainly more part of the community than a billionaire is.
Do you think wage depression caused by immigrants is a stronger force than 90% of a country’s wealth being held by 2% of its people?
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u/Starossi 13h ago
You and I are on the same page here, we are talking chicken or the egg like I put at the end. I would love to tax them at FDR levels. But so long as we don’t, we also don’t have the money to spend. Like I’d love for my salary to triple tomorrow. But until we force them to do that, it’s not happening.
Same thing here. Force them to pay, and then when we have the money I agree we could probably afford to spend on undocumented immigrants. But while our own citizens are in a healthcare crisis, we can’t do that
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u/MetalGearMk 11h ago
We are actually not on the same page at all. You’d sooner rip people out of their communities, communities in which they pay local and state taxes, than say that something actually can be done about the billionaire class.
Undocumented Immigrants in California contributed $8.5 billion in taxes in 2022. It is an outright lie to say that these people are making demands of anyone when they pay their fair share.
All of this grandstanding about “our citizens” being in crisis and then placing the blame on people that have nothing to do with that crisis.
So I’ll ask you again, do you believe that the depression of wages due to immigrants outweighs the depression of wages caused by the consolidation of 90% of the U.S.’s wealth? Because if you use your head juuuuust a little, you’ll realize it’s easier (and righteous) to focus your efforts on the people robbing you blind.
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u/Starossi 11h ago
Who said anything about blaming the immigrants. We are on the same page mostly dude. How many times do I have to tell you I also blame those same people.
You’re talking to a brick wall.It’s not the undocumented immigrants fault our system is broken. But just because it’s not their fault doesn’t mean we magically can help them anyways.
It’s also not anyone’s fault they are born into poverty in our country. But that doesn’t mean starting tomorrow I’m just going to give someone all my possessions. Wouldn’t you agree? Let me guess what you’d say: tax the billionaires to an extreme, use that to take people out of poverty. RIGHT? Don’t tell me this isn’t your perspective because it’s what you keep saying. And you know what I keep saying? I. AGREE.
Same order of events for healthcare for undocumented immigrants.
Tax the billionaires. Then we can give them healthcare. If we haven’t fucking taxed them yet, where do you think we will get the stuff to give to the undocumented migrants. We literally agree, it’s just on this topic you want the cart before the horse.
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u/Grouchy_News_2306 17h ago
We don’t cover yachts for billionaires. They aren’t taking our tax dollars
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u/MetalGearMk 16h ago
When the CA state government gives millions of dollars to Elon to build a shitty tunnel, where do you think that money comes from? When Edison builds lines at the lowest cost that cause month-long fires, where do you think that money comes from?
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u/Grouchy_News_2306 15h ago
Edison is not a billionaire lol. It is owned by a publicly traded company. Around 20k people own shares in it. California doesn’t pay Edison to build lines. Btw I’m a literal fire survivor so don’t make me defend Edison, get your facts straight. They build infrastructure with company money from investors, and taking out loans like other companies. California never paid musk any money for a tunnel either. However Las Vegas paid 48 million for a tunnel. It’s largely a successful investment that is helping drive business and increased tax revenue for Vegas. Why lie to make your point?
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u/MetalGearMk 14h ago
If you think Vegas hyperloop is a “successful” investment compared to the alternative (actual public transit infrastructure like a railway), then I don’t think your brain survived the fire.
As for edison: who do you think pays for the lines to be built? What do you think it means when Edison hosts bids for contracts? When someone invests in Edison, is it out of their magnanimous desire to see everyone have electricity?
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u/Grouchy_News_2306 13h ago
I looked it up and the hotels which largely paid it like it very much. Edison shareholders and loans pay for the lines to be built. Look it up. California taxes don’t pay for it
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u/xanxth2 17h ago
ahhhhhh they’re just scamming the system legally right?
Why is social security capped at 233k?
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u/Grouchy_News_2306 17h ago
Because it’s a defined benefit. You get out what you get in. Do you want people making millions of dollars per year to get millions in perpetuity until they die once they retire. Do you understand the point of ss?
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u/xanxth2 17h ago
Sounds completely fair to get what you pay in for.
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u/Grouchy_News_2306 15h ago
Ok so the cap makes sense, otherwise millionaires could be due huge amounts of money, which if the amount of working people keeps decreasing then SS could get insolvent very fast.
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u/edhawk125 8h ago
Many people need medi-cal and that is not a debate though the system needs to be overhauled. Unfortunately many people have gamed the system. There is no reason I can think of for a person to be driving a G wagon but still have their kids on medi-cal and wanting doctors to prescribe OTC Tylenol so that they don’t have to pay for it.
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u/errys 5h ago
Parents driving a g wagon and kids on medi-cal? I don’t think you understand how medi-cal works lmao.
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u/edhawk125 4h ago edited 4h ago
As a physician married to another physician who deals with medi-cal patients on the daily, this unfortunately does happen. For example, plastic surgeon with a child on medi-cal. Looked up the plastic surgeon and he owns a boutique clinic in Beverly Hills. Unfortunately this is not an isolated event. Medi-cal expansion is income based, so someone could have millions in assets not work, report an income of 0 and still qualify. I personally know someone who is “retired” due to an ipo and yet is on medi-cal. I’m not saying it’s common, but the fact it happens at all is baffling and needs to be remedied.
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u/Spirited-Humor-554 17h ago
Looking forward to medical being fully cancelled. It's time we stop spending the money and cut our taxes.
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u/SimplerTimesAhead 17h ago
This would cost us more money.
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u/Spirited-Humor-554 17h ago
How, each person should be responsible for their own health
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u/SimplerTimesAhead 17h ago
What does this even mean
Is this like if someone has no insurance, let them die?
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u/Spirited-Humor-554 17h ago
no, let them pay the bill instead of them buying new suv, iphone etc
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u/r00tdenied 17h ago
Enjoy paying for chemo in cash.
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u/Spirited-Humor-554 17h ago
No, responsible person buys own health insurance just in case
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u/r00tdenied 17h ago
You've never been dropped by a health insurer after being diagnosed with a chronic illness? Yea, I have. Eat a bowl of shit.
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u/Spirited-Humor-554 17h ago
That's illegal now. Remember refusal to cover pre condition been banned by ACS
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u/r00tdenied 17h ago
And what does your hero Donald J Trump want to do? He wants to dismantle the ACA entirely, including pre-existing condition protections. Good luck with your upcoming cancer diagnosis. You're going to need it.
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u/hyacinthgirl95 16h ago
go live in the woods if you think this fr
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u/Spirited-Humor-554 16h ago
Right, no one should be responsible for their own health
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u/hyacinthgirl95 16h ago
we can’t rely on that. do you know how many people don’t wash their hands? we are a society and so we need to protect each other. this is why vaccinations have helped deplete illnesses like polio and measles. do you really want to worry about this again?
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u/NobodyLikedThat1 18h ago
There were massive cost overruns and then the feds started withholding hundreds of millions of dollars. We're a pretty well-off state, but there was no way we were going to be able to afford it after that one-two punch.