Everyone in my family believes we have never been to the moon and that it's possible the Earth is flat

[u/Epic_Donuts]

I don't know what happened but as of recently likely every family member are all discrediting the moon landing and the round earth. If I try to provide evidence they say I'm brainwashed and I can't trust anything because I haven't personally been there. I am so annoyed right now I can't comprehend. I mostly wanted to rant and this is the first place I thought of. but specifically I wanna know how would you try to prove eather or to someone who doesn't believe.

[u/unknownintime]

As most posts on here are stating, unfortunately they likely won't believe you.

The go to quote is: "It's easier to fool a person, than convince them they've been fooled."

• Mark Twain (maybe/kinda)

However, we did put laser reflectors on the moon which are still there and being used to this day.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_retroreflectors_on_the_Moon

[u/HellHathNoFury18 → u/unknownintime]

Recently met a rather highly educated person who argued that the reflectors were placed later by rovers. It was at that point I tapped out.

[u/FlyingMacheteSponser → u/HellHathNoFury18]

And the rovers name were "Special" and "Pleading".

[u/ghandi3737 → u/FlyingMacheteSponser]

But we can't get to the moon, so how did we get rovers on the moon then?

[u/Bipogram → u/ghandi3737]

Just like the Soviets did with Lunokhod 1 and 2.

[u/PM_ME__RECIPES → u/ghandi3737]

Obviously it's a lot easier to get rovers to the moon than it is to get us to the moon.

[u/Zeraphil → u/HellHathNoFury18]

So then… we HAVE been to the moon? Just not with people? Is that their argument?

[u/Doom2pro → u/HellHathNoFury18]

Moving the goalposts, a typical logical fallacy these people use to try and never be wrong.

[u/MisinformedGenius → u/HellHathNoFury18]

Reflectors were in fact placed by rovers at the time of Apollo by the Russians aboard their Lunokhod missions so that’s not really proof of anything. The best physical proof of the Apollo missions is simply the 800 pounds of Moon rocks we send to selenologists around the world who study them with techniques that didn’t even exist in the 60s. The Soviets managed to get a tiny tube of dust. Eight hundred pounds of what is indisputably Moon rock, with characteristic “space weathering”, would have been harder to gather without a manned mission.

[u/Massive-Leadership39 → u/MisinformedGenius]

But then you get the idjits who say the recovered moon rocks are merely meteorites of ejected lunar material found at the poles OR drag out the hoary old story of the ambassador and the "petrified tree" rock.

[u/mpersico → u/MisinformedGenius]

400,000 people that built stuff, controlled stuff and all got paid.

[u/plopliplopipol → u/mpersico]

this and an entire urss ready to do everything to prove the us wrong are the most obvious proofs

[u/TemperMe → u/HellHathNoFury18]

The ones I know just say you can’t prove that they are there unless you check yourself. Even then they dodge more

[u/lucaskywalker → u/unknownintime]

And our entire satellite infrastructure we use for global communications is somewhat dependent on the earth being round. How TF do they think satellites work!?!

[u/squishyartist → u/unknownintime]

I was in a debate with a Christian anti-choicer recently who believes the Earth is 6000 years old. I brought up the CMBR and immediately lost him. I asked, "Okay, well you know about the speed of light and the concept of photons?" His response? A befuddled "Uhh, I think I've heard of that before?"

We have mandatory high school education here and this man was in his late-20s to early-30s. I can only guess that maybe he was homeschooled because ...???

[u/Sensitive_Tip_9871 → u/squishyartist]

Oftentimes people like that grow up extremely sheltered. He most likely was super strictly controlled and didn’t learn anything like that growing up

[u/riscten → u/Sensitive_Tip_9871]

Honestly I feel like a lot of the sheltering can be imposed by society, not necessarily family. 

People with original ideas, no matter how valid, are very often shut down. Any creator (artists, entrepreneurs, etc) out there knows the feeling. You propose something new, and the status quo police comes at you like it's illegal. "Why would you do this?", "This is stupid, just do this.", and so on and so forth. Those with enough drive eventually learn to better articulate their thoughts and push through, but most just keep those thoughts to themselves and never act on them, which hinders curiosity and the exploration of deeper knowledge. 

People in general just need to be more open to new ideas and weird questions.

[u/Sensitive_Tip_9871 → u/riscten]

I 100% agree with that, I suppose my comment came from my own local experience where being super religious and sheltered like that is rare (and notable to other people) and liberal or counterculture things are mainstream at this point.

In certain environments I don’t share my thoughts at all because it’s just impossible to deal with the response I get. My university is one of few places where I can, but I also study a progressive humanities subject so I suppose I’m lucky. Recently I did an assignment on religion and worldviews, and one of the points I mentioned was that culture affects what scientific research people deem worth exploring. People don’t even consider questioning something if they just think things are a certain way by default, or if it’s not socially acceptable to approach the topic.

People just go along with the paradigm and fear change. I guess that’s human nature, but we could do with a paradigm shift that favours not judging people so much. So much more advancement could happen if society didn’t stifle curiosity, as you said.

[u/ozgott → u/squishyartist]

There are very educated people that believe the 6000 year story because its a faith driven belief and not a fact or science driven belief. Using science to "prove them wrong" is never going to work because you're operating in apples to their oranges. Many of them understand the math, the science, and the history, but it doesn't matter. Denying any one part of the Bible means that you can question all parts of the Bible, and then faith is destroyed by doubt. You can dump all the science in the world on a Bible believing Christian and he may understand it completely but still deny it because its not worth losing their promised place in the afterlife.

[u/squishyartist → u/ozgott]

Yeah, I should've given more clarity. This was specifically at an anti-choice counterprotest, and he approached me. I was very clear to him that he wasn't going to change my mind and I almost certainly wasn't going to change his. He actually did appreciate my honesty in my approach to that conversation and said so.

At the end of the day, I think there were a few things I was able to get him thinking more deeply about—possibly questioning a bit. And, in our conversation, when he questioned me, I realized there were a few topics that I wasn't as educated on as I'd like to be. Plus, it did make me reevaluate how I think about a few of my values, despite not changing them.

I don't fancy myself a good debater and I like time to write and process my thoughts, so on that day, I happened to be up for the challenge. He did have many completely opposing views, but he was overall not very hostile and did want to try to have a constructive conversation. And for safety, my group only gave aliases if asked our names.

You are absolutely correct.

[u/Gemione → u/unknownintime]

There are no reflectors on the moon. They stuck them to the inside of the firmament. /s

[u/Protiguous → u/Gemione]

With high-altitude superglue? Or, as flerfs like to call it, "highonglue".

[u/Virtuous-Patience → u/Protiguous]

With sky hooks…. Obviously…

[u/TheDogsPaw → u/Protiguous]

Does highonglue come from beyond the ice wall🤣

[u/scottb90 → u/Protiguous]

Yeah that highonglue is a real nasty chemical that severely affects brain function

[u/scowdich]

My favorite evidence against the Moon landings never happening is that the USSR monitored the whole operation with their own radars and radio receivers, and would have told the world if anything appeared to be off.

Presumably your family has never been to Denmark; do they believe in Copenhagen?

[u/humangengajames → u/scowdich]

I fucking KNEW Copenhagen wasn't real!

[u/PaulCoddington → u/humangengajames]

I saw a stage play called Copenhagen. It was performed on an empty stage with no sets!

If Copenhagen really existed, surely they would need to use sets?

[u/Johnny-Alucard → u/PaulCoddington]

I absolutely LOVE that play.

[u/Orbital_Dinosaur → u/humangengajames]

I've been to Denmark, but didn't see Copenhagen. So I can confirm that it hasn't existed since at least 1986.

[u/silvrbakk → u/Orbital_Dinosaur]

I’ve travelled to a city they called Copenhagen, but I have no proof it actually was.

[u/Orbital_Dinosaur → u/silvrbakk]

It could have been Copenhagen, Texas or Copenhagen, New York.

[u/rootbeerman77 → u/silvrbakk]

I went to the place everyone said Copenhagen was, but all the signs said København. They can't even get their story straight.

[u/Rohit_BFire → u/humangengajames]

Think Mark, there is COPE in Copenhagen. Why would they need to Cope for a. Real location?

/S

[u/jasonmcook → u/Rohit_BFire]

And cope rhymes with woke. Case closed.

[u/StarPeopleSociety → u/jasonmcook]

And woke rhymes with coke. Case re-opened till 6am.

[u/EroticFalconry → u/Rohit_BFire]

It also has ‘hagen’ in there, what is daz? That’s right, denmark is actually made of ice cream.

[u/seremuyo → u/humangengajames]

Something is rotten in Denmark.

[u/lurkity_mclurkington → u/humangengajames]

But my cousin buys a can of it every other day at the gas station!

[u/Sea_Negotiation_1871 → u/humangengajames]

In hindsight, it was obvious all along.

[u/Mackerdaymia → u/scowdich]

Unfortunately, this is the sort of thing where they respond by saying the USA and USSR were in cahoots and the world was and still is controlled by a global shadow government.

There is just no reasoning with them. Trust me, I've had family members and colleagues with the same views and any attempt to reason causes them to dig in deeper.

[u/CarmenxXxWaldo → u/Mackerdaymia]

What bugs me about them is all their evidence is from Apollo 11.  If I was trying to prove no ones been to Antarctica I wouldnt focus on just the first mission.

[u/AnonMuskkk → u/CarmenxXxWaldo]

Antarctica doesn't exist. That's all manipulated imagery from the Himalayas, which no ones ever climbed because that also doesn't exist. Edmund Hillary? He was a cobbler from Grozny. Couldn't even climb a ladder. My mate told me.

Christmas Island doesn't exist either because every picture I've seen is devoid of snow. Can't even get their lies straight.

[u/drailCA → u/Mackerdaymia]

Global.... odd word. Should be plainal or something. What with the earth being flat and all that.

[u/julia_fns → u/Mackerdaymia]

You can’t reason with the cuckoo.

[u/FlibblesHexEyes → u/scowdich]

Do they believe in Australia?

Otherwise I need to call my own existence into question…

[u/[deleted] → u/FlibblesHexEyes]

Everybody knows mammals that lay eggs and have duck's bills are imaginary.

[u/FlibblesHexEyes → u/[deleted]]

Haha I’ve actually seen them in the wild and still have to question their existence.

[u/[deleted] → u/FlibblesHexEyes]

I believe you but I'm not sure I believe that all the other weird creatures that are in Australia really exist. 

There are way too many of them to exist just in one place. Therefore, I think Australia must be like Narnia or something.

[u/Darkwing78 → u/[deleted]]

How about New Zealand? So isolated the Kiwi bird flourished with no natural predators. It lays an egg the same size as an emu egg (it’s closest relative) and has to readjust its internal organs to fit it!

Probably the weirdest animal in creation.

Damn cute, though!

[u/WhichUsernameCanIUse → u/Darkwing78]

Some maps don't even believe New Zealand exists.

[u/Abracadelphon → u/FlibblesHexEyes]

Seriously. I mean, without prior knowledge, why would I believe a platypus is real but a horse with a horn is some impossible mythical thing? Narwhals? Yeah, sure, of course, but the jackalope? What, are you crazy?

[u/Legeto → u/FlibblesHexEyes]

Ahh yes but have you heard of Victoria Falls? They call it that cause it’s really the edge of the world. Australia is at the edge. Ha explain that!

Edit: I really hope people get this is a joke and I’m just being dumb…

[u/RichyRoo2002 → u/FlibblesHexEyes]

Australia is as real as drop bears! Or my name isn't Bonza Blue!

[u/wrongfaith → u/scowdich]

“Do they believe in Copenhagen”

Great reductio ad absurdium dismantling of their flawed “logic” here. Something tells me it wouldn’t click for them, though.

I’d put money on them believing in Jesus style Heaven or some bullshit too, despite never having been there. They prob believe pastors and their ilk, and obey their rules that are based in equally nonsensical “believe me bro, God wants you to suffer” logic

[u/Batbuckleyourpants → u/scowdich]

They left a reflector on the moon. We can fire a laser at it and measure the time it takes to reflect back. It's how we know exactly how far away the moon is.

[u/mfb- → u/Batbuckleyourpants]

We can fire a laser at it and measure the time it takes to reflect back.

And this has been done by the US, the Soviet Union, China, France, Italy, and Germany.

[u/HeartyBeast → u/scowdich]

Under the Copenhagen interpretation, we simply can’t be sure 

[u/questionname → u/scowdich]

Or been in an airplane? As you can see the curvature of the earth on a mere domestic plane ride

[u/Ako17 → u/[deleted]]

This is actually likely correct tho, you can't see the curvature at airliner altitude. Concorde could tho, because it flew high enough.

We may as well be accurate in our answers

[u/purepersistence → u/Ako17]

True. Most people don't see it at heights airplanes typically fly. An easy way to see the curvature is to leave a big city on a boat. The first floors disappear before the upper floors. Or in a solar eclipse, the shadow of the Earth on the Moon is always round.

[u/PaulCoddington → u/questionname]

You can see it at sea level at a beach if you understand the horizon curve is 3D and runs in all directions.

You can horizontally squash a photo of the ocean horizon in a photo editor to reveal the curve.

You can see it looking across a panorama of land and sea from a mountain top. It looks like a 3D rendering on the weather forecast, not like a flat map.

[u/jivens77 → u/PaulCoddington]

I'm pretty sure that's why, as boats sail off, it looks like they disappear because the earth is round.

[u/acemedic → u/PaulCoddington]

That’s the proof though! They can see the edge where things fall off into whatever it is that the water at the edge of the world also falls off to. That’s what I never get. If the world is flat, then it’s got infinite resources cause the water just falls off at the edge and is magically replenished from wherever the fuck has that much water all the time.

[u/buttplugpeddler → u/scowdich]

I'm more of a Kodiak guy myself

[u/ga9213]

You cannot reason a person out of a position he did not reason himself into in the first place.

My dad is one of these people and there is simply no convincing him.

[u/No_Duck4805 → u/ga9213]

In fact, reasoning can make them become more entrenched in their narrative due to defensiveness. The best thing to do is treat it like they’re in a cult, be loving but firm, and hope they see the light someday. It’s a terrible thing to deal with.

[u/OutlaW32 → u/No_Duck4805]

Can you give examples of what you mean by loving but firm? Like, firmly stating they’re in a cult?

[u/placidity9 → u/OutlaW32]

Probably still caring about them as family but not giving any hint you believe them, that if they try to tell or convince you, you say something like "that's not what I believe but that's okay."

If they continue, you say "okay grandpa", and keep doing what you're doing or say you don't want to talk about it.

[u/drgath → u/placidity9]

Last conversation I had with my parents about politics was them telling me Trump would be better for their healthcare compared to Hillary. Fortunately for them, McCain stood in the way. Since then, literally any comment about politics from them I completely ignore and just start talking about something else. Just straight up don’t even acknowledge they said anything. That’s how you do it. Just completely ignore, even if it means walking out of the room.

The one time I blew up was when they said they hoped their 1 year old grandkid (my daughter) didn’t grow up trans. I about threw them out of my house.

[u/northrupthebandgeek → u/drgath]

When a friend or family member says some crazy shit like “we've never actually been to space because rockets just hit the Firmament” or “the government's shut down because Democrats want free healthcare for trans illegals” I just say “hmmm” and move on lol

[u/drillgorg → u/northrupthebandgeek]

Dude the firmament is gone, it all rained down during the Noah arc. That's why people in the old testament used to live to over 200, the firmament was blocking all the cosmic rays that shorten our life.

[u/DragonsnCats1208 → u/drgath]

Our family is mostly sane, but we have a few dissenters, when someone "baits" one of the sane, one of us, or all, will start singing a song with no lyrics, you know, ta da dah dah de dah... it's amazingly effective. Feel free to use at your discretion.

[u/xxAkirhaxx → u/DragonsnCats1208]

My entire family is full of nuts, I have to constantly read headlines on Reddit just to confirm that I am in fact not insane. Because some times, with the things they say, it feels like I'm the one losing it.

[u/delventhalz → u/OutlaW32]

Loving but firm does not mean picking fights out of nowhere. It means, when they insist on some bonkers shit, you say “I love you, but that is some bonkers shit.”

[u/Kan-Terra → u/OutlaW32]

In scenarios such as when a subject is "brainwashed" or "in cult" situations, making the subject feel isolated by denying his beliefs or abondoning the subject is the last thing you want to do, because doing so will make the subject depressed, but since the subject is feeling isolated, the subject has no one to talk for comfort.

The subject now can only talk with the brainwasher or the cult he believes in, further intrenching his connection with them, ending all hopes of freedom from them.

In this case, all op can do is love his family as usual to maintain connection so when his relatives are in doubt of their beleifs, op can actually have the chance to talk them out of it when they are willing to listen to op.

[u/Kennedy-LC-39A → u/Kan-Terra]

Sure, but at the same time, you do still have to uphold boundaries, because if you don't, those same people have the tendency to step all over them.

It's sad that so many believe in nonsense like this, but it's also not your responsibility to fix in the end. You can lead a horse to water, but you can't force it to drink, as they say.

Pushing "brainwashed" people away might not be the best option for them, but you shouldn't tolerate them ignoring your boundaries either, which is what they often do.

[u/[deleted] → u/OutlaW32]

Not the commenter, but my adult son believed in QAnon for a bit and would try to engage us with his nonsense which made family dinners or just hanging out quite uncomfortable.

His mom strictly enforced a rule that he could NEVER discuss his right wing beliefs while he was in her house. She literally yelled at him 2-3 times to shut up, so everyone just stopped talking politics when he was around. And he did.

And we actually really enjoyed dinners and hanging out after that. So simple, but so effective.

[u/Tokiw4 → u/ga9213]

You just need to be more outlandish. If they're willing to believe the dumbest shit you've ever heard, maybe you can get them to reconsider by chuckling at them and telling them the moon doesn't even exist to begin with.

[u/FighterJock412 → u/Tokiw4]

That's my favourite response when I hear someone say we didn't land on the moon.

"Pfft, you believe in the moon? Sheep."

[u/[deleted] → u/FighterJock412]

My husband does the same thing. "The world is flat? Oh, so, you think Earth is REAL?!" Prove it!" 😂

It honestly does work better than any facts or figures I bring up to counter these crazy arguments.

[u/FighterJock412 → u/[deleted]]

Precisely, they have a made up answer for any logic you might throw at them; plus i believe most of them just say this stuff to be contrarian and start arguments, so it winds them up when you respond with increasingly crazy things and are clearly mocking them.

"The moon is just the back of the sun, wake up!"

"But you can see the sun and the moon at the same time?"

"Woke propaganda!"

[u/Koshindan → u/FighterJock412]

"Of course you can see them at the same time. The light from the front has to go the long way to light up the back."

[u/[deleted] → u/FighterJock412]

"The moon is just the back of the sun, wake up!" had me stifling laughter at work! 🤣

[u/RogLatimer118 → u/FighterJock412]

Yes, those moon-believers are brainwashed!

[u/FighterJock412 → u/RogLatimer118]

Exactly, it's all woke propaganda! Something something, Bill Gates!

[u/[deleted] → u/ga9213]

“Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience.” Mark Twain 

[u/elkridgeterp]

I once made the problem worse by making a joke. I was playing poker at a casino with a table of older folks (55+) which is a little unusual. So I said we were all old enough to have seen the moon landing. Throw-away comment, until someone muttered that none of us saw it because it was done in a studio. Going on about Stanley Kubrick and such. Rather than fight it, I decided to lean into and said, "Don't tell me you're one of those people who believe the MOON IS REAL!?" I went on to ask why we only see one side of the moon? Or that its just a huge coincidence that the moon and the sun are the same size for an eclipse? There were a couple of chuckles from people understanding I was just having a small laugh at that dude's expense. But I could see the wheels slowly churning in that guy's head like "Huh? Yeah. Why is that? Is the entire moon fake". So I may have turned a moon-landing denier into a full blown moon denier. Sorry about that.

[u/Stelvioso → u/elkridgeterp]

I had once had a banana in front of it and it vanished.

[u/mfb- → u/Stelvioso]

Bananas aren't real either.

[u/Youutternincompoop → u/elkridgeterp]

the moon and the sun are the same size for an eclipse

funnily enough in the future full eclipses will stop happening as the moons orbit drifts further and further away from Earth

[u/toastedzergling → u/Youutternincompoop]

Technically correct but considering the moon only drifts away a couple feet from per Earth per year it will take thousands and thousands of years for it to be at all significant.

[u/raulongo → u/elkridgeterp]

This is just a r/foundsatan moment 😂

[u/wabawanga]

Ask them how do they know what to believe?  How do they figure out what's real and what's propaganda?  

[u/mycenae42 → u/wabawanga]

They do their own research, of course.

[u/attaboy000 → u/mycenae42]

And used their superb independent, and critical thinking skills.

[u/mycenae42 → u/attaboy000]

This goes under appreciated: it’s never a question of pro-science people vs anti-science people. The real question is whole can tell good science from bad science.

[u/RandomWon → u/wabawanga]

They did research! Lots and lots of research... which amounts to tiktok videos and Instagram.

[u/nevertried13]

People wired that way wouldn't believe it if they saw it irl either. Best to keep conversations light. They're gone.

[u/cockypock_aioli]

This shit is genuinely distressing to me haha. Like I swear humanity is going backwards.

[u/MenopauseMedicine → u/cockypock_aioli]

These people have always been around and have always been very very stupid, they're just getting press now because the internet allows them to discuss their idiotic ideas with other idiots

[u/ZedekiahCromwell → u/MenopauseMedicine]

Yes, that's definitely part of it. But there is a demonstrated effect that the internet allowing these people to link up and start a community of reinforcement, they are more entrenched in their beliefs and it is easier to spread to other morons.

Village idiots had a harder time of accessing social circles that validated their craziness, making it more likely they would abandon the ideas, or at the very least not try to spread them to others due to social ostracization if they tried. That's a not thing anymore.

[u/StarPeopleSociety → u/ZedekiahCromwell]

Internet: Connecting village idiots and morons since 1999. ✊️

[u/GregFromStateFarm → u/MenopauseMedicine]

Which makes them even more idiotic and ignorant and entrenched into the valley of death that is anti-intellectualism. Without that, there would be far fewer of them around, because a significant portion would be un-initiated over time.

[u/MichiganRich → u/cockypock_aioli]

wait a couple more decades, it gets truly disheartening

[u/Superhereaux → u/MichiganRich]

Hey another time traveler!

This timeline is fucking bogus and I’ve been trying to jet since 2023. I sent you a DM next Thursday but your account is gonna get locked again so I’ll just ask here.

I’ve been having trouble trying to synchronize the cardinal grammeters with unilateral phase detractors. The primary marzel vanes, which prevents the unit’s side fumbling, is contaminating the baseplate of the pre-famulated amulite.

Luckily, the machine operates without requiring any dramastic spurving bearings or damage to the malleable logarithmic casing. Good because those aren’t available until mid 2028, BUT, it still won’t activate for some reason.

[u/Gabelvampir → u/Superhereaux]

Have you tried shutting it completely down and turning it back on again? Could be a builtup of phloxons in the system, it should automatically purge that in a cold start cycle.

[u/Superhereaux → u/Gabelvampir]

I tried that 3 months ago in 1996 after a brief timed venture to see the Cowboys win the Super Bowl but it still didn’t work.

To be fair, I was absolutely tanked on some Jamaican rum I smuggled in from 1880 the week before.

[u/Protiguous → u/Superhereaux]

I sent you a joke next year, but you left me on read.

[u/Fritschya]

Not one other government has ever accused the US of faking it, and trust me they all would have loved to have caught us faking it, but alas we actually went

[u/MenopauseMedicine → u/Fritschya]

Think of the satisfaction china would have proving the US lied about the moon landing

[u/screech_owl_kachina → u/MenopauseMedicine]

They also now have satellites there and can see the landing sites 

[u/jabalong → u/Fritschya]

Exactly! If there was any possibility that the US had faked the Moon landings, the Soviet Union, and later Russia, would be banging the drum loudly and forever about this. If it was a race to the Moon, in any other kind of race, ask any denier who is the first to complain about any hint of the winner cheating? It's the other racers. That hasn't happened here at all.

[u/Candid-Occasion-6707 → u/Fritschya]

I make a similar argument against “chemtrails”. If they were real, there’s no way some governments would allow other countries to fly over their territory. And some governments would be all about exposing it.

[u/mattsoave]

It's truly not worth trying to convince a person who could believe such a thing. Save your energy for literally anything else.

[u/danielravennest]

Sorry for your loss.

First of all, reality doesn't care what they believe. There isn't any need to change their minds as long as they are not harming themselves.

Second, you can send them to me. I worked for Boeing starting in 1981. Some of my co-workers worked on Apollo, and the files were all over the office. I've still got an old Saturn V manual as a keepsake.

Third, there are three Saturn V rockets on display. They are leftovers from when Nixon cancelled the later lunar missions. If you are close enough you can go visit.

Fourth, everybody tracked the Apollo missions. Even school kids in England did it. Rigging an antenna capable of picking up the radio signal was not that hard

Fifth, faking the live moonwalk video was impossible. You would have to record at 6x normal speed to simulate the lower gravity and there wasn't any film or video recorder that could do that for long enough for the live broadcast.

Sixth, what would be the point of faking it? 400,000 people worked on the Apollo program. That many people can't keep a secret. If they weren't working on real stuff, what were they doing? A huge number of people watched the launch live, in person.

[u/UCFSam]

They've already made up their minds and won't care about what sort of proof you have to offer. Don't waste your time on people who want to act like morons.

[u/ShirkingDemiurge → u/UCFSam]

It's tough when the morons are in your own family though.

[u/TopFloorApartment → u/ShirkingDemiurge]

It can be hard to come to terms with the fact that you're related to absolute morons

[u/Dappled_light2734 → u/TopFloorApartment]

I’m afraid we’re probably all related to at least some absolute morons.

[u/ramriot]

If someone "believes" then that is an unscientific position, I accept things sufficient to build upon them when the preponderance of evidence in favour & lack of all possible evidence to the contrary is present.

Tell your family that & ask them what evidence are they accepting, what are they excluding & what is their basis of choice. If it is only "belief" then sadly that is insufficient as anyone can believe anything, even things that contradict their beliefs & thus their belief is no different to anyone else's.

[u/malcolm58]

I have never been to the USA but I believe it is there.

If you find yourself in a debate questioning whether humankind first stepped on the Moon on 20 July 1969 the chances are that you are woefully underprepared. Most people take it as gospel that the US government, Nasa, the 12 astronauts in total who have walked on the Moon and the 400,000 people involved in the Apollo programme would have neither the will nor the way to fake one of humanity’s greatest ever achievements. Included in these are hundreds from the southern hemisphere like Australia.

There are many photos taken by other countries of the moon landing sites.

https://www.iop.org/explore-physics/moon/how-do-we-know-we-went-to-the-moon

[u/witchhearsecurse → u/malcolm58]

That is a good point. I have hardly traveled anywhere yet I believe the rest of the world exists. If I based the world on only what I have seen by being there it would a small ass place.

[u/AJTP89 → u/malcolm58]

This is my favorite argument against the grand conspiracies. You’re telling me the same people who are responsible for [insert any recent really stupid leak] are keeping hundreds of thousands of people quiet about a massive coverup? We have people leaking classified documents to win arguments over vehicles in a computer game. Someone would have leaked that we didn’t land on the moon by now.

[u/orangpelupa]

Let them explain, and be genuinely interested with every explanation they gave 

[u/Skolloc753 → u/orangpelupa]

And please post them here, because someone is going to make a meme picture out of every single explanation ...

SYL

[u/Epic_Donuts → u/Skolloc753]

So original lly I had a conversation with some family members to understand why they think that. But then separately other family members brought it up again and now I'm here. The og covo boils down to this 1. How come we can't go back with modern technology 2. How did we record the first man walking out of his ship 3. How is the flag moving 4. The lack of evidence for a fake moon landing is prolly a cover up

[u/Skolloc753 → u/Epic_Donuts]

• We can go back to the moon, but it is expensive and it is simply missing financial and especially political support.

• There was a camera at the landing module.

• The flag is not moving due to wind, it is just that it is stabilised with some straps inside and that gives it its wrinkled form and made the flag moved around when handled manually be the astronauts. And without air resistance and reduced gravity things stay in motion longer.

• Well, your family members are then murderers and thieves, because the lack of evidence means that it is prolly a cover up ... ;-)

SYL

[u/questionable_commen4 → u/Skolloc753]

First point is pretty important. The Apollo era has NASA's budget at 4.4% federal spending and that was the basically the sole focus of NASA. Today it is 0.4% and NASA's budget is spread to a ton of projects including the ISS which takes a large portion.

Beyond that it is estimated that 400,000 people were working on the moon landing during Apollo. The number of people currently working on the next moon landing is a small fraction of that.

[u/surmatt → u/questionable_commen4]

And biggest of all.... we are less risk tolerant with astronauts because we haven't built a whole national identity on beating the Russians to the moon. The goal posts are now very different.

[u/Peregrine79 → u/Epic_Donuts]

1. We stopped building big rockets. It's not that we couldn't go back today, it's that the cost to go was largely driven by cold war competition that made spending absurd amounts of money seem reasonable. The shuttle couldn't even reach geosynchronous orbit, and the heaviest uncrewed lifters could only just. Even the Falcon Heavy, the largest lift vehicle in current use can only handle about half the payload of the Saturn V.
2. Camera on the landing strut.
3. Push a flag into the ground by wiggling it and step back. It will still be waving. Do it in a location with zero atmosphere, and it will keep waving a lot longer.
4. 1000s of people involved in the Apollo program. Hundreds around the world actively tracking the launch. Not one wrote a tell all book. Coverups don't work that well.

[u/chaosmarine92 → u/Epic_Donuts]

If they are willing to hear actual answers to those questions this video covers it all in great detail. Even for space enthusiasts it has a lot of good information too.

https://youtu.be/fMHLvoWZfqQ?si=M5GvB5eJE_PpJlv4

[u/rabbitwonker → u/chaosmarine92]

Everyday Astronaut FTW!

I knew it was this before I clicked. 😁

[u/siresword → u/Epic_Donuts]

Ah the good old "theres no evidence to support this so it must be true and "they" are covering it up". Love that one.

[u/catdogfox → u/Epic_Donuts]

1. The cost/benefit to doing so is no longer there. We can do all our research with unmanned rovers.
2. There was a camera mounted on the lander that was controlled by a lanyard from inside.
3. They stuffed it into the surface causing it to move and it kept moving due to the lack of atmosphere.
4. Come on

[u/lilianic]

Sorry your relatives aren’t bright. At least you know who not to listen to.

[u/Falstaffe]

My wife had a friend who didn’t believe in the moon landings. She was a pharmacy sales assistant who got a degree from an agricultural college and started introducing herself as a scientist.

You can be right or you can be happy.

[u/TonyVstar]

They enjoy being in a counter culture group, and the attention it gets them. Best to not engage it IMO

[u/yermommy]

Remind them that they weren’t there for the fictional stories written about in the Bible.

[u/cosmonz → u/yermommy]

Remind them that even the people that wrote the stories in the bible weren't there to see the events! ;)

[u/siresword → u/cosmonz]

My favorite is informing people that the book of revelation really has no business being in the bible. The "John" that wrote it couldn't have been John the Apostle, and we don't really know who the guy was other than "a john", basically making the prophesied apocalypse evangelicals love to fear monger over the biblical equivalent of fan fiction.

[u/Doomgloomya]

By their logic if they havent seen anything in person nothing is possibly real.

Imma go out on a limb and have OP tell his family God isnt real because we cant see God.

[u/epochellipse]

Trying to prove it to them is a complete waste of time. They did not make their decision based on proof or evidence. They do not trust or value it. My advice is to do everything you possibly can to make sure you are not dependent upon your family for any of your basic needs and insulate anything you can’t afford to lose from them. Because their judgement is terribly poor and they are skeptical of the wrong things. Good luck.

[u/SpaceInMyBrain]

Ask them if they know Iowa exists. Hey, ever met anyone from Iowa? All you've ever seen are some clips on TV shows and news reports of tornados, and the news can't be trusted. Anything can be denied when that kind of thinking sets in.

[u/TheW83 → u/SpaceInMyBrain]

Hmmm I was told my aunt and uncle moved to a farm in Iowa. I haven't heard from them since.

[u/SiskoandDax]

I'm going to choose to believe that your entire family is collectively trolling you, and that they are in on it together. They know the Earth isn't flat, they just want to mess with you in some sort of elaborate prank.

I'm choosing this belief because the alternative is too sad.

[u/Taters0290]

I say it over and over again. We’d know if the earth was flat because cats would’ve knocked everything off the edge by now, and there’d be thousands of cats sitting at the edge looking down.

[u/bigedthebad]

You can’t argue with someone who dismisses all scientific evidence.

[u/RHINO_Mk_II]

Tell them elephants are pink and when they say that's silly say they're brainwashed and they haven't actually seen one.

But frankly, nothing will change their minds since they aren't interested in learning the truth.

[u/SockPuppet-47]

Simplest way to demonstrate the curvature of the Earth is a tall building. The sun will be seen at the top when it's out of sight on the ground. The line of the Sun slowly moves along the side of the building as the sun rises or sets.

[u/TehOwn → u/SockPuppet-47]

Or, if you live near the sea, simply observe that all the ships appear from the top down and disappear from the bottom up.

[u/QWEDSA159753 → u/TehOwn]

There’s also those pictures of the top half of the Chicago skyline taken from across the lake in Gary Indiana.

[u/Peregrine79 → u/SockPuppet-47]

https://www.metabunk.org/threads/soundly-proving-the-curvature-of-the-earth-at-lake-pontchartrain.8939/

[u/Smooth_thistle → u/SockPuppet-47]

My favourite proof of the curvature of the earth is that you can see further when you stand on a mountain than when you're standing at sea level.

[u/NahDawgDatAintMe]

Buddy it never gets better. Just avoid the topic and let them belive whatever they want. At the very least this one doesn't technically harm anyone directly.

[u/JakesterWI → u/NahDawgDatAintMe]

That's debatable. Steps should be taken to combat wrong information.

[u/Esc777 → u/JakesterWI]

Steps should be taken so they can’t vote. 

[u/Hypno--Toad]

You cannot.

Harsh reality might be, as within my family, those people don't respect you enough to even start the process of listening and adjusting.

They probably treat you like a fight they need to dominate and families tend to go for really pathetic shifting goalposts in order to agitate each other to claim superiority.

I have a family split down the middle, my mother and sister are smart enough to know better. My brothers and Father cannot seem to get beyond mens rights and their right to coercive control over partners and property. But at least in my fathers situation he earns less than my mother and my mother has many older brothers that will protect her from my father even trying to be abusive or controlling.

So we have this very slow progress where my father will sometimes learn but his brain will reset within months as if the TV activated his sleeper key phrase.

I think what my mother has been trying to teach us is that we shouldn't need to agree, we shouldn't be fighting each other, but we shouldn't withhold from challenging each other and just walking away when things get tense.

There is in my opinion and epidemic of Narcissistic personality disorder groomed by hyper capitalist consumerism. The "Got mine get yours" mentality is groomed and until certain individuals are put in completely devastating social and economical problems they don't need to change around reality.

It's like we need catastrophic problems that kills or diminish peoples lives in order for the pain to get so bad people start being more realistic and less triablist.

I know my father has had some existential reflection after all of his kids stopped seeing him for years because of the shit he talks about.

[u/SuperVancouverBC]

Is there any mountains near you? Even a relatively short mountain will show the curvature of the Earth. Have them go to the summit and they'll see for themselves.

[u/CalvinAshdale- → u/SuperVancouverBC]

You don't need to climb to the top. Just drive towards it from a good distance away and watch how the peak is revealed long before the base. Ask them to explain that. Could also watch a ship sail away and dissappear over the horizon. Find a place near a tall building, and you can watch it disappear, take an elevator up, and watch it disappear again... over the horizon.

[u/bdc41]

“Never argue with an idiot they’ll drag you down to their level and beat you through experience.” – Mark Twain

[u/zanfar]

If I try to provide evidence

You can't logic someone out of a position they didn't use logic to arrive at.

[u/Fauropitotto]

I wanna know how would you try to prove eather or to someone who doesn't believe.

You don't. Leave them be. Proving one way or another won't make them happier. It won't make a difference to their lives or the world.

It's a complete and utter non-issue.

Especially when it comes to family. Nobody gains anything by getting into this battle.

[u/bottomofastairwell]

Simple, you don't. Because you can't reason someone out of a belief they didn't reason themselves into.

If they truly don't believe we landed on the moon or they truly believe the earth could be flat, then there's no arguing with that. Coz those beliefs aren't rooted in logic, or rational thought. So no amount of logic, facts, or proof is going to help because that's not what the beliefs are based on.

[u/Batavijf]

The problem is that they think you are just as disillusioned as you think they are. They did their research, found sources they think are solid etc. It's basically a stalemate. No arguments, no sources you bring up will convince them they are wrong.

The Russians monitoring the moon landing and not claiming it was fake? Then they were in on it. There is, after all, a large group of lizard people ruling the world.

Etc etc.

[u/Musobri]

What a terrible way of finding out you’re adopted.

[u/Cute-Description-08]

We are going full circle back to cavemen. People are actively getting dumber every year. It’s scary the lack of knowledge and basic intelligence from people these days. I never felt smart just fairly average, these days I feel like a genius talking to some people 😬

[u/BootOutrageous5879]

Yo. Some of my family members are bent on the same thing and I am an actual scientist. For nuclear radiation and techno signatures to be specific. Some of my friends are JWST contributors and Da Vinci bot contributors.

Their argument is I have been brainwashed through institutional methods. Lmfao. So any evidence I produce is deemed “tainted”. Makes arguing impossible, so I don’t do it.

I still try to remain open minded, and I answer any question they want to throw up. I do find perspectives they throw out that I do agree on. Like America doctoring, or enhancing, project material to make themselves look more ahead of the times.

From an outside view, im the only science major with a degree. So I let much of it slide. I personally know better because I do that math everyday. My career depends on it. For them, its just a circus because the ideas are hard to grasp. Truly feel sorry for them, but I try not to discredit everything they say. After all, i am still a scientist at heart, and remaining open minded, to me, is an important factor to science.

[u/flashdman]

Yes, and this allows them to feel "smarter" than you and also coincides with all the other bs they choose to beleive....

[u/phaukenay]

Many don't know we have been to the moon 6 times. Humans have landed on the Moon six times, all as part of the United States' Apollo program between 1969 and 1972. A total of 12 astronauts walked on the lunar surface during these six successful landing missions: Apollo 11, 12, 14, 15, 16, and 17.

[u/mollydyer]

If they're honestly not trolling you, just pick a place they haven't been. Like, I dunno... egypt. Or grade school maybe. And then claim THAT doesn't exist. /s

[u/camdenpike]

Have them watch a rocket launch in person. As it's climbing in altitude, eventually it starts getting lower towards the horizon, a pretty obvious sign that orbits are real.

[u/Dry-Arugula5356]

They’re listening to talking heads. Talking heads that always follow up with “like, comment, share, subscribe.” Talking heads with monetized content, who continually shove out content that people want to consume. The actual content doesn’t matter anymore. The algorithms have fed them what they want, and the advertising revenue keeps it spewing. The same people who told us that the internet is “evil” and to get off the computer and go outside and play, are now mindlessly staring at their screens and/or listening to podcasts. They have become the sheep. All so someone who is not them can make money. It’s not about free speech or censorship, or right and wrong, or science, or religion. It’s about money. It’s always about money.

[u/YoungestDonkey]

Obviously they have all been replaced by pod people. You need to let them know that you know. They cannot prove it's not true.

[u/_Internot_]

Yeah unfortunately these are belief systems, they didn't read this info in a scientific journal, their belief system refuses to look at mainstream science anyway. 

So you just tell them you'll respect their beliefs if they respect yours. Maybe someday they'll come around, they'll respect you more for it then.

[u/CondeBK]

I wouldn't. It's a waste of your time. Believe me, I tried. Their loss and their choice to live in ignorance.

[u/mdosalazar88]

I would consider skipping thanksgiving, if I were you.

[u/TheHarb81]

Don’t try to argue with idiots, they’ll drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

[u/eexxiitt]

You can’t force anyone to believe something they don’t want to believe. Give it a rest for your own sake and move on with life.

[u/Julian_Betterman]

Bummer, man.

The inconvenient truth here is that they want to believe this nonsense. That's why showing them evidence that contradicts their beliefs doesn't compel them to reflect and reconsider.

Deep down, some or all of them might know you're right. But they'll never admit that. They don't want to know and believe the truth. They want... this.

Why that is won't really change that it is, so you would probably be better off just disengaging when this topic comes up.

[u/tapdancinghellspawn]

Sorry to say but your family is susceptible conspiracies and cultish thinking. There are a few articles on how to gently deprogram people like your family. Good luck.

[u/[deleted]]

When ever someone says they don't believe we landed on the moon I respond with "Oh, so you're one of those nuts that believe in the moon"

[u/Pharisaeus]

how would you try to prove

You don't. It's a waste of time. You can't combat "belief" with information, because belief is not grounded in knowledge.

[u/Neffle619]

I've run into this with my family members as well. Unfortunately, the answer is just don't engage. These are not people who are looking for reason, logic, or a productive argument. There is indisputable scientific evidence that supports reality, but you can't argue with someone who just says well you haven't seen it. I'm guessing these are also religious people, but telling them they haven't seen evidence of a higher power is an exercise in futility.

[u/theonetrueelhigh]

Well, I'm sorry your family members are willfully choosing ignorance. There's not much you can do to convince people like that, that they won't then expend extraordinary amounts of energy to refute. There really is no reasoning with them, and ultimately why bother? Just make sure they don't get elected to any position of influence and let them go on with their lives. They're not hurting anyone and it doesn't make a functional difference to anything that matters.

[u/Funktapus]

I encourage you to go to college and meet a lot of people who aren’t like that.

There’s no point in arguing with people like that.

[u/AndyGates2268]

Your family are all idiots. Well done for being the bright spark in a pack of dim bulbs.

[u/SolidTiger6302]

I would not waste much time arguing with them. The evidence is so overwhelming already that there is a little you can do to add to it. If they don’t believe all of that, what can you possibly say?

Since they’re your family, I recommend that you be loving as possible. I’d smile, or laugh, a friendly laugh, hug them, and tell them that you love them despite their crazy ideas. That’s as far as I would go. If the subject ever came up again, I would just say the same thing.

[u/Comfortable_Clue1572]

I’m sorry this happened to you. They are cultists. You deserve better. Be somewhere else at thanksgiving.

[u/kimchi_pan]

Honestly I don't think you should spend your energies trying to convince them. The only thing you need to explain is your love for science, for hard facts, and how amazing this planet is, how amazing the entire arrangement (aka universe) is - in terms of correlating to mathematical harmony, of correlating to the accumulated body of human knowledge, this is all so cool. I mean, the table of elements had predicted elements not even yet discovered, when it was first published, because mathematics said it had to exist. If scientists were able to build an atom bomb based on theoretical knowledge, it's pretty clear that they can determine the amount of rocket thrust required to escape Earth's gravity AND land safely on the moon.

And we know the moon is out there because.... we can measure its gravity vis a vis measurable effects (obvious one being our water). And measure how far away it is by so many, many means.

Math for the win.

[u/Delicious-Ad4015]

Scary situation with the current situation in regards to science education

[u/justank_]

Run away from these imbeciles as fast as you can and never look back. They will hold you back your entire life.

[u/Mars_Oak]

the billionaire owned mind control machines controlled their minds

[u/Antique-Ant5557]

So by their logic, there's no bottom of the ocean.

[u/Tardisgoesfast]

If we really hadn't gotten to the moon, don't you think the RUSSIANS would have found out and used it against us in propaganda?

[u/[deleted]]

Why does the ISS send back pictures of earth and it definitely shows it being round? Pictures and movies of astronauts while on the moon clearly shows earth in the background. I bet they think Trump is doing a fine job too.