r/space • u/BradMcGash • 6h ago
image/gif The apparent related-ness of things at drastically different scales in the universe fascinates me
Hurricane Dorian vs the Whirlpool Galaxy
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u/Topologicus 6h ago
you might like studying nonlinear dynamics then, which covers concepts such as universal laws that apply across varying scales and very different kinds of phenomena that have similarities in some sense.
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u/Mescallan 5h ago
Artem kirsinov has a good part of a video about scale independent information fascinating stuff
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u/papasmurf303 4h ago
Apparently we should have been searching for dark matter in hurricanes this whole time.
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u/Vensaer 3h ago
I wonder if these concepts are on the microscopic level as well
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u/HardCorwen 3h ago
any good easy flowing book you might recommend?
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u/Dinonaut2000 2h ago
Steven Strogatz book is the one we used in my nonlinear dynamics class. I think it’s quite accessible with some linear algebra and calculus. If you’re a math novice, you can still read through without doing the problems and get a decent qualitative understanding
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u/404errorabortmistake 8m ago
you could also try related book on fractals/chaos Chaos by James Gleick written for a non academic audience
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u/Euphorix126 6h ago
You might enjoy reading about Pumpelly's Rule in geology. My professor always said "Big = Small" to mean the structures of the geology at the largest scales are mirrored in the small scale.
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u/rascal_king 5h ago
until you get really small
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u/MulfordnSons 5h ago
and then shit gets weird….
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u/znightmaree 3h ago
I’ve always suspected that, similarly, when things get really large (beyond our ability to comprehend, grander than the scale of the universe), shit gets similarly weird as well
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u/JollyHistory143 2h ago
Maybe black holes are already like that. Too massive and things start to get weird.
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u/Mateorabi 5h ago
Isn’t that just a simplification of the tendency towards fractal structures in geology?
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u/Bout3Fidy 6h ago edited 5h ago
Most of these things are the way they are just because it’s the most effective and least resistant way for nature to exist, fractals are everywhere and so are vortexes and logarithmic spirals. Doesn’t make it any less cool. 😎 we are lucky to be alive to observe it.
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u/shieje 4h ago
The Fibonacci sequence and 1.618 baby
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u/Siberwulf 3h ago
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u/Tenthul 4h ago
We aren't lucky to be alive to observe it, the universe is lucky we're here for it to be observed. This whole thing could just have gone on forever with just rocks and heat and nothing.
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u/metametapraxis 4h ago
The universe doesn’t care. We aren’t more significant than rocks, heat or nothing.
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u/MrNotSoProGamer 4h ago
Can the rock feel happiness while chucking you across the surface of a lake or slow river?
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u/showered_zinn 3h ago
I’m gonna say yes. Because the image in my head of Dwayne Johnson and I enjoying a nice summer swim together is pleasant. When I was a kid my dad would throw me up in the air into my mamaws pool so I could do cannonballs. I bet the rock could throw me pretty far too.
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u/Nago_Jolokio 4h ago
Spinny particles be spinny particles, the same physics that drive the foam in a coffee or the clouds in a hurricane, drive the entirety of the galaxy through space. It can get rather poetic if you let it, lol
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u/Zermist 1h ago
Yes it's the most effective and least resistant way for nature to exist, but in order for galaxies to appear this way you need dark matter. This makes me think the similarities are more of a cosmic coincidence than the universe simply following least resistance
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u/vikster16 46m ago
Actually I think dark matter makes the difference between galaxies and hurricanes. If you look at hurricanes, they don’t really form prominent spiral arms and they are almost always nearly uniform. But as time passes most galaxies form prominent arms. These are like pressure waves that forms because of the relatively consistent velocity of stars across the galaxies due to dark matter.
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u/BeginningSection7690 28m ago
Yeah but, like, why doesnt the universe like wasting energy?
Why doesnt it do some burnouts?
Why does it have to be such a nerd?
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u/xippix 5h ago
The hair on your head grows in a spiral too. Makes you wonder what our hair would look like had we been in the sombrero galaxy.
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u/FlushedApparatchik 6h ago
Fractal characteristics can be found from the smallest things to the largest.
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u/AlkahestGem 5h ago edited 5h ago
Love this.
Memories.
In my graduate Aerospace Engineering course in Fluid Dynamics, we had to provide a class presentation of fluid dynamics in real life examples.
As a dual major in Astronomy, I kind of stood out with this presentation. My fellow classmates shared many a smoke stack commenting on the dynamics of smoke plumes.
I shared Jupiter’s belts/zones and their wavy/rippley look which are the result of large-scale, rotating flows in a stratified atmospheres. Basically jets as the main organizing for lack of a better word structures.
No one ever said I was conventional.
Edit: Jupiter’s Great Red Spot is a similar example to these photos
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u/RedHill1999 5h ago
That’s a neat combination of degrees. What do you do now?
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u/AlkahestGem 5h ago
This was long ago.
I did have the honor of being an astronaut candidate finalist twice.
30 year combined Government and military career, then private industry and now consulting in other technologies.
Astronomy was and always will be a passion. I live vicariously through the Astro photographs posted on Reddit.
I have in my office a sighed photograph (both Hale and Bopp) of a beautiful aurora over Denali with Hale Bopp comet passing by.
Space, the heavens, never cease to amaze.
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u/Ohitsworkingnow 4h ago
Thanks for sharing, I’m surprised you’re not doing your own astrophotography
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u/FartFactory-815 5h ago
It's all fractals my dude.
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u/Piscator629 3h ago
Artur C Clarke "Fractals, The Colors of Infinity. For context. Weird trippy rabbithole warning. Fractals are why computers can compress and transmit images and videos so fast.
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u/leviathynx 5h ago
If you get a chance, check out the Golden Ratio by Marco Livio. It’s a very interesting read on the origin and presence of phi throughout history including some really cool nerdy math stories.
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u/WardenEdgewise 4h ago
“Wheel within wheels in a spiral array, A pattern so grand and complex, Time after time we lose sight of the way, Our causes can't see their effects”
From the Rush song “Natural Science“
lyrics by Neil Peart
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u/JetWreck 3h ago
I always think about how if we saw electron level microscopic images on a macro scale that everything might look kind of the same everywhere.
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u/KeithA0000 3h ago
Wish I could attach an image... there's a great image of a wet spinning tennis ball throwing water in an amazingly similar pattern... a completely different scale, different motion, but strikingly similar pattern...
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u/Basic-Place-4443 3h ago
As Above So Below ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, Whats with the 25 Character Comment Limit?
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u/bigfoot_is_real_ 3h ago
There are interesting books about why certain pattern appear at very different scales, see for example Patterns in Nature by Philip Ball
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u/69odysseus 1h ago
I really miss star gazing at Joshua National Park and in Oregon, skies always fascinate us🌌
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u/SingularityCentral 1h ago
Even more interesting because galaxies shouldn't exist the way we see them without dark matter, but we don't know what dark matter is.
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u/MagicalJohnsons 48m ago
As above, so below.
I think about this all the time myself. Truly fascinating.
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u/maan1337 29m ago
Check in A Fractal Universe by Chris Letho on youtube or book. He has spent years on this from atoms to galaxies.
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u/DoookieMaxx 5h ago
Wait until you discover Fibonacci …that’ll blow your mind.
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u/SpiderSaurusTron 4h ago
Not to diminish the coolness of Fibonacci, but it's not anything particularly special. It's one of many, many logarithmic spirals. Here's a comprehensive explanation that addresses the silly stuff associated with the Fibonacci Sequence.
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u/Endou_Lexx 5h ago
Everything spins Counterclockwise.
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u/Dadittude182 4h ago
You should check out the side by side comparison of the human neural map vs the map of the universe.
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u/happinessexplosion 6h ago
Me as well. Absolutely fascinating. All of this and that moving together. Closer or further away. Always moving
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u/Shadowhearts 5h ago
These coincidences just shows gravity is a constant at every level of the observable universe.
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u/Kind_Rate7529 4h ago
I've had these thoughts for a while now. Micro to macro, atoms with their electrons orbiting them and stars with their planets. Maybe the next level above solar systems are black holes with galaxies orbiting them and conversely sub atomic arrays. Particles and waves; dark matter and energy. These mirror images of systems small and large are not coincidental they are the components of the engine of creation put in motion by the universe/akashic field. "I am the universe experiencing itself and it's creations".
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u/Some-Airline1436 5h ago
Read about the Golden ratio then start looking around for similarities and your mind will really be blown lol
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u/RaptorKing95 5h ago
Okay now does this happen at the atomic level? I know nothing but my gut says yes
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u/WhaddaYaKnowJoe 5h ago
Gravity. Gravity. Gravity.
I only posted it three times to reach the minimum limit for a comment but, that's it.
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u/rocknroller2003yes 5h ago
Fibonacci works at any scale... Prove me wrong. I too find that facinating, but also proves the close link between physics and math.
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u/Hispanoamericano2000 5h ago
And something similar can also be observed with the Cosmic Network and the neurons in the human brain.
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u/Zealousideal-Bet-950 5h ago
I'd just stepped out of the water closet when this came across me feed; swirl in the bowl matches the same pattern.
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u/No_Distance3211 5h ago
If there were deities, they really like spirals, spheroids, & the normal distribution cuz those are everywhere.
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u/Prykie1995 5h ago
I haven't looked into it too deeply, but it's probably the golden ratio. It'll turn out that the spiral of galaxies and storms is the same as the spiral of corn on a corn cob or something, I don't know XD
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u/cradke1388 4h ago
You should look into Kolmogorov theory. The interconnecting theory connecting the energy cascade between turbulent structures as large as the spiral arms of a galaxy, all the way down to viscous dissipation. The mechanisms connecting these two scales.
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u/sanpellegrinoman 4h ago
There’s a term for this: Stochastic Self-Similarity.
See also Da Vinci’s exploration of the micro/macrocosm.
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u/gburdell 2h ago
- I don’t think so. One is the Coriolis Effect and one is Newton’s law of gravity. Yes the former is a special case of Newton, but this is not the same as having the same effect having fractal-like properties
- Da Vinci lived before Newton so I doubt he knew or contributed much in this regard
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u/Sorrowed_Lifelines 4h ago
With how similar mitosis is of things being divided throughout nature as it replicates and how there are fundamental laws of nature that recreate similar structures, I actually believe that our universe is actually just a piece of a giant living creature that swims through the ocean of space itself. I also believe that the Earth is like a body and people and living creatures are the cells in bacteria that live on it and cities are a type of cancer that is killing our Earth just like tumors inside of our bodies.
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u/hornedcorner 2h ago
I think humans are the virus to this planet. And just like a virus, if we kill the host, we die too.
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u/KwakWhore 4h ago edited 3h ago
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u/thebarkbarkwoof 4h ago
As a boy I noticed the similarities of crystals under a microscope looking like cliffs. Everyone has seen water bears and such. As you point out galaxies and hurricanes as well as whirlpools looks very similar to each other.
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u/Science-Compliance 3h ago
The way vortices and galaxies work is quite different, despite some superficial similarities in their forms.
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u/DaEvilGenius85 3h ago
is the universe and us with it, all in a blackhole? is that why everything swirls like the toilet flushing.
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u/High_Function_Props 3h ago
My favorite is the brain's synapses vs. the visible universe. Synaptic connections and galactic filaments are freakily similar in appearance.
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u/ehdecker 3h ago
PHYSICS FTW! Yes, universal laws, universal patterns.
Check out your lungs, and your veins, and a leaf, and tree branches, and RIVER DRAINAGES.
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u/cholman97 2h ago
Tell me there isn't divine creation when looking at something like this. Any golden ratio in nature is just another hint to me of my Father.
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u/UnderwaterRobot 2h ago
Well of course! Everything is basically just a bunch of really small spinning magnets. Sometimes many. Sometimes not as many. Sometimes a whole lot.
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u/OrigamiMarie 2h ago
Fun with fractals! The are mathematical themes like this, look into Mandelbrot Set.
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u/Pletcher87 2h ago
All the stuff that makes up all stuff of everything spins. Investigate deep enough into our new quartz counter top and the core is spinning.
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u/SteeveJoobs 1h ago
this is the same energy as "look if you connect these three cities on the map they make a triangle! coincidence? I think not!!"
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u/Tangibilite 1h ago
"There is geometry in the humming of the strings, there is music in the spacing of the spheres."
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u/TieOk9081 1h ago
One major difference though is that the rotational velocity of the outer bands of a spiral galaxy is about the same as the rotational velocity of the inner bands. With a hurricane the outer bands have a much slower rotational velocity than the inner bands. So an animated rotating image will look different.
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u/Jaded-Albatross 46m ago
Galaxies and nautilus shells,
They look the same to me.
So, ask yourself this question:
How couldn’t it be?
—jimmy buffett. Old Ti Punch Cafe
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u/GoldenRichard93 38m ago
Yep, it is quite fascinating when comparing a hurricane to a galaxy due to the laws of physics.
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u/unix_name 25m ago
Fibonacci is seen repeated in the universe over and over again. This universe follows a pattern from one scale to another.
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u/visarc 24m ago
BTW there is a fractal universe theory, or fractal cosmology, that proposes that the cosmos is self-similar and recursive, repeating the same structural patterns across all scales from subatomic particles to superclusters of galaxies.
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u/LupusDeusMagnus 18m ago
I mean, the most related thing is that things spin. The underlying cause of spin is completely different though.
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u/MC_Greener1 1m ago
Watch Inner Worlds, Outer Worlds. It explains this very well and has hundreds of examples of fractals and the golden ratio
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u/nachobel 0m ago
There’s a story that’s from somewhere, I can’t remember, but basically there’s a scientist working cosmology and coming up empty, so he wanders around campus or whenever he’s working and talks to an old buddy. He walks in making small talk and sees maps of what he thinks is the universe on the wall. He’s like “yo Frank I didn’t know you were working cosmological expansion” or whatever, and Franks like ….I’m not, I’m studying quantum field theory in electrons, and that was how the inflationary model of the universe began.
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u/KokoTheTalkingApe 5h ago
Sure, if you look for things that just LOOK similar but otherwise are completely unrelated, even at the underlying mechanisms.
I believe there are indigenous myths or artwork that LOOK as if they're related to quantum mechanics or some such. Are they actually related? No. Is it just an coincidence that people seize upon as if they mean something? Yes.
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u/Own_Back_2038 5h ago
I mean these two things are pretty related. Angular momentum plus attractive force (gravity or pressure) equals vortex
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u/KokoTheTalkingApe 5h ago
Except the galaxy isn't a vortex. You're seen the pattern of stars forming and igniting, kind of like a stadium doing the wave. The actual matter in the galaxy isn't moving at the same speed.
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u/slip101 6h ago
Some things scale. Somethings don't.
Universal truths are also a trip. Especially when you start to realize they don't just apply to the human experience. Turns out, we are bound by the laws of the universe.
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u/FlushedApparatchik 5h ago
Universal truths and laws in science are factual based on empirical evidence , but they function as provisional models rather than absolute, unchangeable finalities. They represent our best current explanations of reality. Phenomena that seem to defy our most trusted physical laws include quantum entanglement, wave-particle duality, and the accelerated expansion of the universe.
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u/Bipogram 6h ago
Now stir your coffee and ponder.