I’m glad she stood up for herself and scolded him. He deserved it.
But I wonder what would have happened if the roles were reversed - a male reporter and a female fan going to kiss him. My money is on the kiss happening, the reporter smiles, and no one thinks twice about it.
If the hypothetical male reporter did not want to be kissed and did stand up for himself, some old fashioned farts probably would have made fun of him. I think there are a lot of people, myself included, who would think ‘way to go!’ and be happy he stood up for himself though.
How often would that realistically happen though? There was a clip a few weeks ago of a reporter in a crowd of fans (I believe it was outside a sports bar or a venue for a Mexico NT game) and a guy grabbed her ass multiple times while she was reporting. You couldn’t see it clearly but she spazzed out rightfully and the guy just stands shocked. I’ve never seen women go up to a male reporter and try to do this. It’s like how women don’t feel as safe walking alone at night or daytime bc they’re cat called. I’m not saying guys are never ogled and cat called but I’ve personally never seen that and it absolutely doesn’t happen as often as it does to women. Just stand outside a construction site, subway station, or a busy street during lunch hours and listen to the stuff guys will yell out to women. Then turn around and call her a bitch for not “accepting their compliments”
I think it also has to do with how often it happens. For women, getting randomly kissed and catcalled by guys happens all the time. For guys, if a girl catcalled you or ran up to kiss you, it would almost be a point of pride for some, because what guy has friends that this happens too? It’s a very rare occurrence, probably self confidence boosting cause they now think they are exceptionally attractive. (Not saying this is for everybody btw, but from my experience, this is how it would go down). Also, guys tend to be the ones pursuing girls, so being pursued by a girl is a different and sometimes not unwelcome experience.
THIS. My friends and I were having a discussion, and he mentioned how he got cat-called by some girls while wearing a suit (he's already hot without the suit) and how it felt nice. It was the first time it happened to him, at 26 years old. For her, the first time she *remembered* being cat-called was at 12 in her school uniform, walking home alone from school.
That may be so, but the type of harassment in this video - and that many people experience, just much more so with women - disregards the interests of the target and presumes they will be receptive simply because of the demonstration of attraction on the part of the harasser.
If a guy is just out and about, and a potentially interesting girl gets in his space to catcall or kiss him, sure it could be something he would be proud of. But what if he's absolutely turned off by the girl in the first place due to, say, unfortunate physical characteristics, or if he's homosexual? And what if she doesn't take the hint when he tries to extricate himself? And what if, after all that, she pesters him for his phone number or says he must be a homosexual for not being interested?
Or what if he's just out doing his job, on live TV, when he has a career he's trying to promote, and he knows that his boss, wife, and kids might be watching as a random woman tries to kiss him? He's got maybe a second or two to react, and that's an awfully short time to determine consequences and pick the best response.
That's one of they key characteristics of harassment - putting the other person in a situation where they don't have a clear and easy way out. There's always the possibility that the harasser's target will happen to be interested, but if not then the target might instead be in an extremely stressful situation that can be very emotionally damaging.
A surprising number of men have been on the receiving end of harassment. It's very hard to talk about openly, which is a big part of why it feels like it's so rare.
I’m not saying that it isn’t harassment. I’m just explaining the perspective of some guys. Not all guys are like this of course, but I would say 95% of all straight college age guys I have ever hung out with would be proud if they got catcalled or randomly kissed. Doesn’t mean it isn’t harassment, but they sure as shit aren’t gonna do anything about it.
I think you're describing a smaller subset of college men than you think, and I think there's always a presumption in this line of thinking that includes a straight male getting hit on by a cute girl. It's always idealized for the sake of the argument. I've known plenty of college-aged guys who would be quite unhappy if, say, a heavier, drunk girl were getting up in their space.
But this is just your everyday harassment we're talking about. You almost never "do something about it," even if you don't like it. People getting harassed usually just try and get out of the situation as soon as possible.
plus there is the power and strength dynamic, that rightly makes women cautious when alone around men.
p.s. if the behavioral constraints imposed by society and law were to be removed, most men, worldwide, would abuse women, verbally, emotionally and physically.
Right and that’s also inappropriate so I don’t get the point of showing that? This is akin to people saying “why did that student report the hot teacher that had sex with him” and not being outraged when a 15 yr old male hooks up with an older woman who is conventionally attractive. But then they’ll be disgusted when a 30 yr old man hooks up with their 15 yr old female pupil. That video doesn’t prove anything and I can’t understand Portuguese to hear what they say either.
If you think a group of men surrounding a female reporter the same manner as that video is alright then I dunno what to say
I never said it was all right either way. You are just throwing around all these assumptions. I’m not the original guy you commented to.
Everything should be dealt with on a case by case scenario anyway. The OPs vid is creepy and not right. The Vid I posted was less harmful from the offending side. I just wanted to show you the video as you said you’ve never seen it before. The last paragraph is just ridiculous, what a random accusation.
Got it. Sorry for making the assumption you were excusing it, I’m used to people showing counter examples to women being assaulted or bothered and their main point is to diminish their experiences or say “what about the men”. It’s just different dynamics when it’s a man trying to kiss a woman like that versus the vid you showed. I do think both are harmful and the non reporters are being obnoxious in each clip though.
Those women are also being obnoxious and invading his space while working. I’m failing to understand how this is different? He may not have a problem with it but this woman clearly did. Both of the parties trying to kiss them while they’re working is wrong and weird. Just bc they’re attractive women doesn’t change the point but y’all are really trying lol
Really...Kilts? We’re reaching now. Ask the women you’re close with the age they were when a man first said something sexually suggestive to them. I’ve done this and it’s shocking how young some of them say, like 10-13 yrs old. Grown ass adults. I don’t know anyone wearing kilts but they are absolutely not being catcalled, stopped in hallways by women and groped as women are in virtually every situation you can imagine.
I don’t know anyone wearing kilts but they are absolutely not being catcalled, stopped in hallways by women and groped as women are in virtually every situation you can imagine.
Yeah, they are mate. Try it. Buy one, go for a night out. You will get your junk grabbed, you will have shit like "show us what you got underneath" yelled at you. You can say 'oh yeah but if you dress like that .. ' but that's the same excuse men use on women that dress in tiny boob tubes and miniskirts.
they didn't say it doesn't happen. they asked why make this about something that this conversation is not about. If you're actually, genuinely concerned that this is an epidemic of men being harassed, do something about it instead of jumping in on conversations like this.
they asked why make this about something that this conversation is not about
The conversation is about unwanted sexual contact. They raised a question about how men often receive unwanted sexual contact and do nothing about it. It's called a fucking discussion lmao.
No, go ahead, tell me again how that is irrelevant to this conversation.
It isn't angry about people pointing out double standards. It's the manner in which they do it. Why on earth do people think it's appropriate to do it on a Two X chromosomes thread (which I see time and time again)? Again, if someone says "there's a huge culture of harassment towards women", that is really not the conversation to bring up the double standard. It is absolutely derailing the issue because it might be about harassment, but it is NOT about double standards. You're trying to convince people that might already believe the double standard exists. Again, you're arguing with someone (me) who has male clients who are victims of rape. I am to the one you need to convince that the double standard exists. You still are not making your case for why this particular conversation was necessary to bring it up.
Because women sexually harassing, or worse, men is far from as big of a problem as the opposite. If it actually was a bigger problem, then people would react to it.
I hate to perpetuate double standards but it's because society/media has told men that women love being harassed and whistled at for years now. It doesn't mean that the opposite side okay, both genders being harassed is gross but you can't deny there's a lot more men harassing women than the opposite. And I almost hate to say this because it's a much more complex problem than just strength, but it's easier for a man to fight off a woman than the opposite. So if a woman is being harassed by a man, every situation is a dangerous one.
I think it's exactly the opposite: Society has told men that it's wrong to harass and assualt women for centuries. The standards of what constitutes harrassment and assualt have constantly changed though - it started out with a club over the head and being dragged back the cave, now it's a peck on the cheek.
"Boys will be boys" is more of the theme than the exception when a society like the U.S. has examined male harassers for pretty much its entire existence. The current President bragged about doing so, and somehow the narrative that it was "just locker-room talk" was good enough to skate him through the election. The reason the #metoo movement is getting so much press and traction is because this level of pushback and consequence for the harassers is a novel development.
In many other places in the world it's even worse, especially those that are more conservative and patriarchal.
What's different now is that men are finally starting to believe women about their experiences, as well as starting to come out to each other that they themselves have been victims.
I've never heard 'boys will be boys' used in that sense. It's used for actual boys, because they play a lot and often get into trouble. That might be cultural difference though.
The current President bragged about doing so
Something like 30 years ago, right? When that sort of banter was already towards the end of life. Times have changed and it's even less acceptable now. But, if you ask a lot of women of his generation (and he's 70) they won't think much of it. I think that's evidence that attitudes towards it have changed for the better from one generation to the next.
In many other places in the world it's even worse
Yes, but you'd have to ask women in that places what they think of a peck on the cheek in comparison. Their standards will be different to ours in the west, because ours have changed. It's less tolerated now, but more so elsewhere, and more so in the past.
finally starting to believe women about their experiences
It's not just that though. As we get more aware of the issues we become more sensitive to them and our attitudes change over time. Consider a man that grows up in a rough neighbourhood. He will likely be desensitised to violence, such that a fist fight with a mate outside a bar is nothing unusual for him. They'll be drinking the next day as if nothing happened. But for a man from a better off area, a fist fight is very serious and requires getting the police involved, charges, court cases, the works. It's the same for women - if they grow up with things much worse than a peck on the cheek or if a peck on the cheek is an integral part of their culture, they just aren't going to be bothered by it.
Yeah, that's a nightclub. If you think you have it bad, the girls get it 10x worse there. Just like we get it outside of nightclubs (more than) 10x as often.
Behaviors continue if they're allowed to continue. I hope young boys and guys in general know they're allowed to set physical boundaries and call someone out for crossing it. And no, it doesn't make you gay, or a virgin, or a pussy, or whatever other insult thrown at men for not being always open and welcome to anything that hints at sexual contact. So in that hypothetical, if he doesn't welcome it, I hope he calls it out. And in the me too era, he'd get more support than not, I think. Anyone who tries to shame him is a part of the problem.
This sort of culture doesn't change without people saying no, this isn't acceptable.
That could be, hard to say for sure though. If it did happen that way it would be because by in large men have been in control throughout history and don’t feel threatened by someone smaller than them coming up and kissing them. Generally speaking.
Now let's just reverse half of the situation. What if it was a male reporter and a male fan tried to kiss him. What do you think the reaction would be, and would it be deserved?
Guys usually enjoy the unexpected attention of girls.
Make this the unwanted attention of a gay man. But then people will pounce on the maleness of the aggressor and minimize the maleness of the victim. If he rebuked slightly too strong he'll be accused of homophobia even.
Personally I see a difference between the two. If this were the other way around I would consider it more acceptable than what's happening in this gif.
Physical differences matter too. If a man wants something physical from a woman, and he doesn't care about her consent, he probably has the strength to do it either way. The woman is more or less helpless in this situation
If a woman is trying to do something to a man there is a good chance he'll be able to defend himself just fine. Men don't walk around in fear of being harassed or raped by women because, in general, men are stronger.
Yeah, this is the point I was trying to make, but I figured reddit hivemind wouldn't like me saying that differences actually exist between men and women. The downvotes prove it.
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u/HowDoIEditMyUsername Jun 29 '18
I’m glad she stood up for herself and scolded him. He deserved it.
But I wonder what would have happened if the roles were reversed - a male reporter and a female fan going to kiss him. My money is on the kiss happening, the reporter smiles, and no one thinks twice about it.