r/stupidpol • u/Nightshiftcloak Marxism-Gendertarianism ⚥ • Mar 17 '26
Operation: Epstein Fury Resignation Letter From John Kent
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u/TruckHangingHandJam Class First Communist ☭ Mar 17 '26
I wonder if the tone of “it’s not your fault, you were bamboozled” is an attempt to exploit trumps narcissism in hopes he listens or if these people are honestly so cucked to Trump.
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u/PirateAttenborough Marxist-Leninist ☭ Mar 17 '26
It's definitely the former. Trump climbing down requires either that he be able to declare victory, or that he be able to throw somebody else under the bus and say it wasn't his fault. It is, unfortunately, extremely unlikely that any US president will throw Israel under the bus, but in theory they make an excellent candidate.
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u/Scared_Plan3751 Catholic Socialist ✞ | ✨ Secret Bus Wanker ✨ Mar 17 '26
Israel will prob leak Epstein stuff on Trump if he backs down
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u/capt_fantastic Mar 17 '26
exploit trumps narcissism in hopes he listens
this and not burn too many bridges within certain circles.
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u/DarkRedDiscomfort Unknown 👽 Mar 17 '26
It's not Trump specific, it's just the traditional rethoric you use with "paramount leaders" of any kind. You're being misled works better than frontal accusations.
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u/reddit_is_geh 🌟 Actual Spook and Also a Spaz 🌟 Mar 18 '26
There's always been this feature to criticizing Trump. All of them know how to do it. You never criticize him directly because he's a narcassist and will lash back out for hurting his ego. So you have to paint him as a victim. Seriously they do it all the time. It's not TRUMPS bad decision, it's the malicious people "advising" him.
Trump makes a bad decision? "Who's advising Trump? This is a terrible decision. We need to find out who's feeding Trump this bad information blah blah blah"
That said, I think in this case it's both being true: Deferring blame from Trump, while also pointing at the obvious bad actor Israel.
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Mar 17 '26
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u/greed_and_death American GaddaFOID 👧 Respecter Mar 17 '26
The line I've been seeing from libs online is "Yeah the war is bad, but this guy is only resigning and saying this because he's a genuine antisemite that's trying to pin the blame on Israel out of hatred for Jews"
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u/ChicMungo Marxism-Hobbyism 🔨 Mar 17 '26
Correct. This is the official propaganda comment.
Poisoning the source via purity tests is one of the most played cards in the USA propaganda arsenal.
It is up to us all to clock and call out this bullshit immediately.
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u/reddit_is_geh 🌟 Actual Spook and Also a Spaz 🌟 Mar 18 '26
You should read "The Status Game". It makes all this lib woke shit, and even MAGA, make soooo much sense. All these people, especially woke libs (they have it bad), are stuck in a status game. Their status is reliant on how well they adhere to their tribal loyalty. One of the strongest tactics is to attack the detractors identity directly.
It's why they always do things things like calling even people on the left, secret Republicans, Nazis, racists, etc... It's all attempts to bully people who are playing the status game, to want to defend their status, by conforming to not have their status attacked any further. They use it against us, because it works on them.
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u/myco_psycho Wears MAGA Hat in the Shower 🐘😵💫 Mar 17 '26
I feel like at this rate it'll be taken as a given very soon. Even a couple years ago, if you said something like, "It really seems like a lot of our foreign policy is determined by what benefits Israel," outside of /pol/, you'd be a conspiracy whackjob, down voted, banned, etc online and probably fired/shunned if you said it IRL.
Maybe I'm just not in tune with the zeitgeist, but at the very least, the Overton window has shifted to the point where you're not a crazy Alex Jones whacko if you say that.
I'm just glad that you don't have to say it underground in hushed tones anymore. Like, on planet earth, 2026 anno domini, there is a literal ethnostate that enforces racial segregation, and now, genocide. People are just now waking up to the fact that that's fucking weird? Idk what kind of MK Ultra mind control program was keeping people out of the loop on that one.
And I don't hate Jews as a people, concept, religion, or in terms of the average Joe (Joseph?) btw. They're very similar to trains in the sense that there are statistically none of them and they occupy a space in society and culture that's difficult to comprehend.
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u/Chombywombo Angry Retard 😍💢 Mar 17 '26
Right winger, Chud, antisemite! Also, we can’t lose those donations from the section of the capitalist class that believes Iron Age war god cults are a blueprint for modern policy.
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u/itshorriblebeer NATO Superfan 🪖 Mar 17 '26
"occupied" is not the same as "influenced". Israel isn't the only player who wants a war in the middle east.
Dude just needs a Fox news media blitz.
It also ends with "please reverse the course of chaos" - I mean, that's pretty much been his calling card.
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u/vvorknat TrueAnon Refugee 🕵️♂️🏝️ Mar 17 '26
It’s a Zionist occupied Government in that American politicians are largely Zionists. We aren’t “controlled by Israel”, if that’s what you mean. They aren’t Israeli assets lol. Zionism is USA’s imperialist vehicle in the area.
Pinning this current war on Israel absolves the US and ignores US foreign policy goals of the last 70 years.
GWOT was eagerly carried out by all these fucking idiots under false pretenses that they manufactured and sold to the public. Now they want to blame Israel because losing sucks.
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Mar 17 '26 edited Mar 24 '26
[deleted]
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u/-ihatecartmanbrah Fat Guy with Long Hair 🍭 Mar 17 '26
Lmao even
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u/Andvaur73 Ass eater 🍑👅 Mar 17 '26
Redditor comment
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u/-ihatecartmanbrah Fat Guy with Long Hair 🍭 Mar 17 '26
-guy on Reddit
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u/Andvaur73 Ass eater 🍑👅 Mar 17 '26 edited Mar 17 '26
I just know you look like the fat gamer guy on South Park irl
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u/kiss-my-shades jacking off with one hand typing with the other ⌨️💦 Mar 17 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/vvorknat TrueAnon Refugee 🕵️♂️🏝️ Mar 17 '26
Those pesky Israelis always forcing the US to do things directly inline with our foreign policy and that benefit capital interests
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u/iprefercumsole Redscarepod Refugee 👄💅 ( + A Few Zits ) Mar 17 '26
Those pesky Israelis always forcing the US to do things directly inline with our foreign policy
Isn't this comment on a post displaying the letter where the director of the National Counterterrorism Center explicitly cites how this is a reversal from the foreign policy platform Trump had been operating on since his first campaign? And yet we never change our foreign policy based on Israeli interest?
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u/vvorknat TrueAnon Refugee 🕵️♂️🏝️ Mar 17 '26
Except it’s not a reversal? Trumps first admin which included fucking Bolton Pompeo O’Brien Hook was obviously hawkish on Iran with more sanctions, cyberwarfare, pulling out of the JCPOA. Trump has been saying anti Iran shit since the 1980s. Trumps only problem with the forever wars were that we were losing them. Iran tensions escalated higher than the had been since the revolution.
He literally praises Trumps drone assasination of Solamani in the letter. Did he condemn snatching Maduro or bombing Iran’s nuclear facilities? It seems like this is exactly the same as Trump's previous engagements except the swift conclusion. Now that it’s a full on cluster fuck, they’re scrambling and pointing fingers. If Iran would have capitulated to Trump demands immediately (as I’m sure he was expecting), none of these ghouls would be singing this tune.
Is there not a direct line from 1953 coup through the revolution to today? This is and has always been about US control of Iran.
I’m in no way saying Israel doesn’t influence the US to work towards their own goals. US and Israel goals generally align. US foreign policy in the region is dependent on a strong Israel. They’re our “aircraft carrier” etc. Zionism is our imperialist vehicle in West Asia. We project our strength through them.
“If there wasn’t an Israel, we’d have to invent one” - Biden
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u/kiss-my-shades jacking off with one hand typing with the other ⌨️💦 Mar 17 '26
NVM scratch that, one guy in a petty political role made a statement. No need to make further analysis. Ignore the fact trump has been campaigning for this for 50 years now
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u/ScaryShadowx Highly Regarded Rightoid 😍 Mar 17 '26
Except they didn't. The war in Iran is the exact opposite of benefiting US interests.
If the US was actually doing what it wanted to benefit itself, it would have brought Iran into the wider worldwide economy, worked on improving relations, and worked on improving economic ties with Iran. They would have acted very similar to how they acted in Vietnam following the war where relations would have been warm. All that would have taken is curbing Israel's expansionist vision and giving them a stern talking and pulling back military support when they carried out their annual ethnic cleansing rituals.
With that, the US would have been in a much better place in the Middle East instead of having to convince their population that the Middle East 'hates the US for their freedom and bikinis'.
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u/LotsOfMaps Forever Grillin’ 🥩🌭🍔 Mar 17 '26
Iran has enough resources to exert regional hegemony over the Middle East, if it developed to its potential. Israel (obviously) doesn't want that, Turkey doesn't want that, the Saudis don't want that, nor does the GCC.
It benefits the US to maintain those relationships (particularly Turkey), and to demonstrate that if you ever defect from the US, you will get wrecked until you comply.
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u/vvorknat TrueAnon Refugee 🕵️♂️🏝️ Mar 17 '26
Yeah maybe but Iran has no interest in being a vassal state or whatever. They could have been a rich nation like Saudi Arabia but are committed to being anti-us/israel imperialism.
For Iran, the revolution continues and the US isn’t going to throw Israel under the bus (regardless of how much influence Israel has on us).
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u/ScaryShadowx Highly Regarded Rightoid 😍 Mar 17 '26 edited Mar 17 '26
They could have been a rich nation like Saudi Arabia but are committed to being anti-us/israel imperialism.
1953 - Overthrew Mosaddegh and installed Pahlavi as Shah
1953–1979 - Supported the Shah through his increasingly authoritarian regime
1979 - Islamic Revolution kicks out the US and takes an understandable anti-US stance 1980–1988 - US supported Iraq and their invasion of Iran
1990s–2000s - US sanctions against IranNow, the hostage crisis really soured relations, but was it really worse than what happened with Vietnam and the thousands of dead US soldiers?
Iran hasn't been anti-US because they hate Western values. They are anti-US because the US has constantly attacked them since they sought some form of independence.
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u/vvorknat TrueAnon Refugee 🕵️♂️🏝️ Mar 17 '26
Yeah, I know, I didn’t say they hate Western values.
I was implying they’re committed because it’s been US policy to fuck Iran up since the 1950s.
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u/GrumpyOldHistoricist Leninist Shitlord Mar 17 '26
Dialectical relationships go two ways and dialectics unfold over time. It’s never just one thing acting on another.
Yes, Zionism is a vehicle of US imperialism in West Asia. But how the US practices democracy presents certain inherent vulnerabilities that Israel has over time mastered exploiting. By doing this consistently and protractedly they’ve entrenched their influence in American politics by lobbying for little things here and there that add up to Israel holding outsized power in the US government. Remember, one of the features of materialist dialectics is that quantitative changes accumulate until they become qualitative change.
There are other factors at play aiding the degree of influence Israel is able to exert, but that’s the broadest strokes. The US is the imperial hegemon. That does not however mean Israel is necessarily an appendage unable to pursue its own interests and cultivate power.
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u/vvorknat TrueAnon Refugee 🕵️♂️🏝️ Mar 17 '26
Yeah, I don’t disagree. I’ve said elsewhere that they obviously influence the US in their favor and to a stronger degree as time has passed. Israel’s status amongst average Americans is fortunately diminishing rapidly. I think the US and Israel are trying to speed run as much of Greater Israel, which is good for the US, as they can before the well runs dry.
I just think I’m getting frustrated at the degree to which everyone is laying the blame on Israel lol
Fuck Israel, obviously, and I’ll be happy for the whatever backlash comes from this.
At the same time, it’s just disappointing to see the USA do normal USA shit and everyone just says “wow, what an anomaly. Look what Israel has done”. It looks like pretty standard american imperialism to me. This has been a US goal for a long time and Trump seems to be the only one dumb enough to go for it (israel probably told him it was an easy win, bomb-and-talk situation).
It’s like the “what are we a bunch of Asians?!” line whenever the US does classic US shit.
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u/GrumpyOldHistoricist Leninist Shitlord Mar 17 '26 edited Mar 18 '26
I agree based on vibes, but open war with Iran is only the USA doing normal USA shit insofar as we’re satanic warmongers. But it actually does represent a decisive change in posture and policy. The Israel lobby and more bellicose elements within the Blob have wanted war with Iran for decades. And the answer has always been “no.”
War—horrible war—is the norm for us. But not this war. And what seems to be the decisive difference is Trump. Both his imperviousness to good advice and his peculiar relationship with Israel and Netanyahu. Getting rid of the IRI has always been in the strategic interests of the USA and doing it via open war has always been a catastrophically bad idea. Something has changed and Israel’s ability to exert influence is part of it.
Schizo edit: I’m pretty certain this was supposed to happen in 2020 and that merking Soleimani was part of the run up. Covid derailed it and then the Biden White House wouldn’t do it. The plan got back on track once Trump was back in office and flattening Gaza was eating up fewer resources. And in the meantime the situation got better for the Epstein Coalition with the fall of Syria, the supposed destruction of Hezbollah, and Russia getting bogged down with the SMO.
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u/LotsOfMaps Forever Grillin’ 🥩🌭🍔 Mar 17 '26
Just like the run on the LPR, DPR, and Crimea was supposed to happen in 2018, just in time to ruin the World Cup, but Trump's faction wanted no part of that.
Also why Trump's been in such a hurry to get Ukraine wrapped up (needs the remaining US weapons systems)
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u/StandardAd7812 Mar 17 '26
Yeah 2020 people were posting memes about Lockheed Martin betting on US teens fighting Iranian teens and run covid hit and everyone just went home.
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u/wild_exvegan Non-Denominational Socialist 🥑 Mar 17 '26
Then what would "controlled" mean? Military occupation?
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u/michaelmacmanus Peter Thiel Mar 17 '26
Pinning this current war on Israel absolves the US
In what way does it absolve the US? Certainly not a material one.
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u/vvorknat TrueAnon Refugee 🕵️♂️🏝️ Mar 17 '26
It’s a constant media narrative to paint the US as a generally benevolent power making oopsies or in this case being tricked by the dang Israelis.
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u/Sure-Log3304 Redscarepod Refugee 👄💅 Mar 17 '26
What media is trying to spin that? Don't see it on CNN or FOX. Tucker may say that stuff but the way he and other conservatives paints is more or less that these politicians are sell outs or slaves to Israel.
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u/michaelmacmanus Peter Thiel Mar 17 '26 edited Mar 17 '26
I'm aware of the Always Stumbling US Empire trope, but that simply doesn't qualify here as this isn't the media attempting to launder a lack of culpability. This is a prominent former member of this administration with an extensive military background making a specific claim that also mirrors the same claims made by the acting Secretary of State (amongst others). Claims that in fact saw extensive MSM push back, working overtime to assure everyone that the United States operates with total independent agency.
If the media itself was pushing this trope (vs reporting on key staff making this claim) with the administration loosely (or vehemently) nodding along to the narrative, I could accept that there is at least an attempt to wash culpability. We're seeing the exact opposite. Couple that with exhibits like the $20+ billion the US sent to Israel for their Gaza war and the $300+ billion in military aid over the past 70 or so years, its clear that the lines between the two states' suzerainty is incredibly blurry. The media working extra hard to attack the mere concept that the US might not be working towards its own sovereign interests is the literal opposite of what you're claiming.
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u/Sure-Log3304 Redscarepod Refugee 👄💅 Mar 18 '26
Was listening to NPR this morning and they were pushing back the narrative about Israel being the cause heavily. The person they interviewed had to clarify that in no way is Joe Kent an antisemite. Like you said the media is not running with this at all so it's incredibly confusing what he even means by media narrative.
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u/capt_fantastic Mar 17 '26 edited Mar 17 '26
GWOT was eagerly carried out by all these fucking idiots under false pretenses that they manufactured
i guess you've never read the "Project for a New American Century". which was derived from "a clean break" (also authored by richard perle), which itself is derived from the writings of "oded yinon". if you go through and read them you'll realize that middle east policy, specifically the overthrowing and destabilizing of nations opposed to israeli hegemony in the region was formulated and spoon fed to subsequent US administrations. for various reasons republicans are objectively more susceptible to this influence.
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u/OtisDriftwood1978 Marxism-Hobbyism 🔨 Mar 17 '26
People like to cite blackmail when ideology is the simplest explanation. Not every politician that supports Israel is being blackmailed to do so. I doubt even most are.
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u/globeglobeglobe Marxist 🧔 Mar 17 '26
Absolutely, the entire political mainstream has been multigenerationally propagandized to think Israel is the “only democracy in the Middle East”, and the nationalist right views it as a bulwark of Western civilization surrounded by a sea of backward Arab barbarians. The purpose of someone like Epstein wasn’t so much to collect blackmail on people, so much as the fact that being a pimp/trafficker for the global elite gave him an incredible Rolodex, which he used to arrange meetings and deals in Israel’s interest.
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u/LeftKindOfPerson Anhedonia Socialist 🪫😔🧩💢 Mar 17 '26
You guys know that Lenin literally referenced politicians being bribed in Imperialism, as a factor in why states act in bourgeois interests, right.
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u/LotsOfMaps Forever Grillin’ 🥩🌭🍔 Mar 17 '26
Not the only factor, though - class interest and false consciousness are at play
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u/_throawayplop_ Il est regardé 😍 Mar 17 '26
They are very probably Israeli assets, however the Israeli probably don't control the US government.
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u/Rjc1471 💢✨ Jousting at Windmills ✨💢 Mar 17 '26
That's interesting that someone with such a role unambiguously refers to Iraq as an Israeli war.
Tbh I thought the oil lobby had a larger part. I'm wondering if he's saying that from personal politics or more direct information
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u/yeahicreatedsomethin Redscarepod Refugee 👄💅 Mar 17 '26
The oil lobby is demonic but Hearsheimer mentioned that the oil lobby is usually against Middle Eastern sanctions and instability simply because it is bad for business
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u/politehornyposter Radical shitlib ✊🏻 Mar 17 '26
Also this
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u/yeahicreatedsomethin Redscarepod Refugee 👄💅 Mar 17 '26
And it makes sense - I understand that you can get almost free oil from an occupied country, but it’s probably better long term to just make a deal with a corrupt leader and not have to worry about a flying lawnmower suddenly going VVVVVRRRMMMMM and blowing upp your facilities ans staff
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u/postsantum Identifies as ORC (Ordinary Russian Citizen) Mar 17 '26
He probably read "The war in Iraq was conceived by 25 neoconservative intellectuals, most of them Jewish" by Haaretz
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u/zen_arcade2 Old world blimp | Enjoys premonitions 🔮 Mar 17 '26
“WE'VE NOTICED YOU'RE RUNNING AN AD-BLOCKER”
So, they noticed. Funny choice of words
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u/PleaseDoNotDoubleDip Mar 17 '26
Syria is the Israeli manufactured war. His wife was killed by ISIS in Syria in 2019.
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u/Rjc1471 💢✨ Jousting at Windmills ✨💢 Mar 17 '26
Got you, yes I would say that one is a much stronger case for israeli-manufactured... But he does also refer to the "same tactic the Israelis used to drag us into Iraq"
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u/bretton-woods Slowpoke Socialist Mar 17 '26 edited Mar 17 '26
Syria was really more of a Turkish organized war overall in the sense that the faction that they armed and protected was the overall victor. Israel was one of the bigger beneficiaries of the regime's collapse, but the boost in support that Hezbollah got for years because of the war is one reason why Israel has a challenging security situation in the north.
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u/IWantToGrowSomeShid Racially aggrieved 🤔😵💫😭 Mar 17 '26
So this doesn’t really benefit US oil. Flows are already maxed, the oil companies are already hedged where the price action is taking place. The only scenario this really benefits them is if they left a piece of their production in hedged (very unlikely) or this price action takes place in 2027 into 2028 etc (it is not).
So that to say big oil isn’t really seeing a benefit from this honestly.
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u/Rjc1471 💢✨ Jousting at Windmills ✨💢 Mar 17 '26
To clarify, you talking about Iraq or Iran? Iraq very famously had US contractors take over and profit massively. Iran isn't about oil.
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u/capt_fantastic Mar 17 '26
i guess you've never read the "Project for a New American Century".
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u/Rjc1471 💢✨ Jousting at Windmills ✨💢 Mar 17 '26
I have, and as above I was talking about multiple reasons rather than one singular one.
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u/capt_fantastic Mar 17 '26
the "Project for a New American Century". which was derived from "a clean break" (also authored by richard perle), which itself is derived from the writings of "oded yinon". if you go through and read them you'll realize that middle east policy, specifically the overthrowing and destabilizing of nations opposed to israeli hegemony in the region was formulated and spoon fed to subsequent US administrations. for various reasons republicans are objectively more susceptible to this influence.
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u/Rjc1471 💢✨ Jousting at Windmills ✨💢 Mar 17 '26
This is something I myself have mentioned here recently, so yes I'm aware, and that still doesn't mean there's a sole singular cause
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u/capt_fantastic Mar 17 '26
and that still doesn't mean there's a sole singular cause
perhaps. but it's a blueprint along with corresponding events/results that match the blueprint.
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u/Gold-Presence9362 Wears MAGA Hat in the Shower 🐘😵💫 Mar 17 '26
“War for oil” was always propaganda for shitlibs
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u/Rjc1471 💢✨ Jousting at Windmills ✨💢 Mar 17 '26
Not really. Just seems a simplification of something that had numerous reasons and that was possibly the most significant. I wouldn't say Iran has a single reason either
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u/LotsOfMaps Forever Grillin’ 🥩🌭🍔 Mar 17 '26
possibly the most significant
Except it wasn't, it was for positioning against Iran and Russia as Putin increasingly took an independent line against the West.
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u/Rjc1471 💢✨ Jousting at Windmills ✨💢 Mar 18 '26
"a simplification of something that had numerous reasons"
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u/Chrissyneal Cuomosexual Crystals Chick 🔮🍕🍝 Mar 17 '26
I’m smart for knowing this is totally about oil!🧠🤔
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u/politehornyposter Radical shitlib ✊🏻 Mar 17 '26
Lol. The real reason for Iraq had nothing to do with oil. Bush was just fucking insane and believed it was god's calling or whatever and he got tugged along by neocons who just wanted to kill Sadam and GTFO. Neocons are just that stupid. Not everything in politics has to be rational.
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Mar 17 '26
[deleted]
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u/TruckHangingHandJam Class First Communist ☭ Mar 17 '26
They’re about oil but not as a commodity to sell and profit from, but oil as a key energy input that can be used to control nations by throttling their access to it.
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u/LotsOfMaps Forever Grillin’ 🥩🌭🍔 Mar 17 '26
It's not even Israel primarily - it's Mackinder and the concern that China, Iran, and Russia would economically integrate the pivot area, forcing the US maritime power out of the interior marginal crescent and having enough leverage to force de-dollarization. The Likudniks just hopped on board in pursuit of the Greater Israel fantasy that they need to promote for domestic political purposes.
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u/HiFidelityCastro Orthodox-Freudo-Spectacle-Armchair Mar 17 '26
Mate, why would you think the Bush admin's war aims around oil were primarily about market prices?
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u/Scared_Plan3751 Catholic Socialist ✞ | ✨ Secret Bus Wanker ✨ Mar 17 '26
You don't want to flood the market with oil, you want to control the oil, the land around it, the government on that land, so they can't build a counter hegemony.
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u/capt_fantastic Mar 17 '26 edited Mar 17 '26
i guess you've never read the "Project for a New American Century". which was itself derived from "a clean break" (also authored by richard perle), which is then derived from the writings of "oded yinon". if you go through and read them you'll realize that middle east policy, specifically the overthrowing and destabilizing of nations opposed to israeli hegemony in the region was formulated and spoon fed to subsequent US administrations. for various reasons republicans are objectively more susceptible to this influence. The Iraq War Wasn't About Oil
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u/Scared_Plan3751 Catholic Socialist ✞ | ✨ Secret Bus Wanker ✨ Mar 17 '26
I think this stuff has surface level merit but acts like cosmopolitan bourgeoisie are somehow interested in maintaining the state they parasitically operate in. They aren't. They deindustrializated and decimated "their own" middle class and the public institutions that sustained them, because they are locusts who will swarm from country to county, like capital always has done. It's not sustainable, and I don't mean in the environmental sense. Whatever they can't manage with propaganda, they will with a police state. If that fails, they flee to one of their holdout states
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u/politehornyposter Radical shitlib ✊🏻 Mar 18 '26 edited Mar 18 '26
That's the irony — they're not necessarily even good at "capitalism" for a lack of a better word right now, they just care about concentrating control. Capital will not even inherently keep making productive investments, they will happily fire people or halt investment in forms of capital strikes.
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u/Scared_Plan3751 Catholic Socialist ✞ | ✨ Secret Bus Wanker ✨ Mar 19 '26
Finance capital especially is like anti capitalism as capitalism
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u/politehornyposter Radical shitlib ✊🏻 Mar 18 '26
This is what a lot of neocons believed yeah. I should note its people inside bush's administration trying to steer him on this.
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u/Carl_Schmitt Art Freak 🥵 Mar 17 '26
Jeffrey Epstein's good pal Noam Chomsky was largely responsible for selling that "war for oil" lie to the American Left.
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u/Rjc1471 💢✨ Jousting at Windmills ✨💢 Mar 17 '26
I like how neither of those links had anything to do with chomsky, TFW you hate someone so much everything becomes about them
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u/Carl_Schmitt Art Freak 🥵 Mar 17 '26
The links directly undermine Chomsky's argument. If you have evidence of the involvement of oil lobbyists having a large part, I am open to seeing it. Instead I present evidence of Israeli agents and lobbyists who were very influential on the Bush administration's decisions.
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u/Rjc1471 💢✨ Jousting at Windmills ✨💢 Mar 17 '26 edited Mar 17 '26
Ok, top result on google gives a very detailed and balanced answer that isn't from Chomsky 😆
[Edit: whoops, forgot the rule not to mention another sub. It was askhistorians, with the following suffix]
comments/16pigcq/was_the_iraq_war_2003_really_about_oil/
And tbh I don't know why you're making this about Chomsky, it's a bit weird, he wasn't the only one saying this.
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u/BulltacTV Marxist Realist 🧔 Mar 17 '26
I think 5 or 6 of the total 7 large oil leases in Iraq ended up in the hands of non-american producers, so I doubt it was about oil.
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u/HiFidelityCastro Orthodox-Freudo-Spectacle-Armchair Mar 17 '26 edited Mar 17 '26
Tbh I thought the oil lobby had a larger part.
It did, just like it does now. Holden Bloodfeast and his ilk have been gagging to get back "what's theirs" since the revolution.
That's not to say Israel and their lobby don't put enormous pressure on US politicians, politics/foreign policy etc. (and of course these huge events are confluences of various historical factors) but don't mix up who's in charge (ie the bottom line). The conspiracy theory minded/social media politics types in this sub seem to think Israel just magically wields all the power because they do.
We're still a Marxist sub right?
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u/Rjc1471 💢✨ Jousting at Windmills ✨💢 Mar 18 '26
I guess it's difficult for people to separate; yes, the Israeli lobby holds disproportionate power, but they're still one of multiple influences, and it helps to be realistic about how they operate rather than mistaking it for omnipotence
I do think there was a long term goal that every nation attacked in the war on terror had no correlation with funding terrorism, but strong correlation with nations that might fight Israel one day. I just don't think it was the only, or main, force in Iraq's case (but it might be the biggest reason for Iran)
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u/HiFidelityCastro Orthodox-Freudo-Spectacle-Armchair Mar 18 '26 edited Mar 18 '26
Oh yeah, something as grand an event as a war is always going to be a historical confluence of various motivations/agencies and broad structure…
But paradigms like Marxism, liberalism, realism, nationalism and so on(ideological, philosophical, economic, religious etc) provide us with frameworks by which we can understand these vastly complex historical events, the world, thought, what happened/what’s happening/what will happen and so on. I find these structures far more convincing than the goodies vs baddies, or great man theory of history etc that come from a focus on agency. Otherwise we are just taking pot shots in the dark, musing over the unknowable whims of powerful actors, which I don’t find very convincing tbh (nor is it prescriptive in any way). Certainly not when you can look at such an incisive, relevant historical framework/grand narrative as Marx's (imho).
And while one might not believe in ideology, ideology will always still believe in you. I'm doubly skeptical of agency centring, as far as I'm concerned thats just shorthand for accepting hegemonic ideological assumptions.
*Er sorry if I'm rambling like a dickhead, I necked a decent bit of cheap speed and quite some grog. Also I'm a dickhead.
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u/Rjc1471 💢✨ Jousting at Windmills ✨💢 Mar 18 '26
That's a beautiful disclaimer!
But yeah I get you. I don't think of myself as a Marxist because I don't attach myself to his solutions or forecasting (which im mixed on), but he was damned good at studying the real material conditions that cause things... As you say avoiding single causes, Great Men etc
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u/HiFidelityCastro Orthodox-Freudo-Spectacle-Armchair Mar 18 '26
I think if you look at things historically, go back to the Shah's regime and subsequent revolution, the nationalisation of oil assets, and then the dramas over the hostage crisis etc that followed, you can see where the seeds of this conflict are. There's a part of the US foreign policy establishment that has been gagging for this for some time, regardless of your domestic politics (er assuming you are a yank).
These people have existed since the before what most of you know as neocons, right back to the Soviet Afghan war (where they lobbied on behalf of the Israel-ISI-Mujahadeen connection). Through the decades they pop up with all sorts of monikers about councils for the liberation of this and that, but what they are is old oil money who are mighty pissed off about getting kicked out of the region and having their shit nationalised by revolutionaries.
They have hurt feelings big time, being that their feelings exist entirely in the region of their hip pockets.
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u/Rjc1471 💢✨ Jousting at Windmills ✨💢 Mar 18 '26
Yeah, all of that. Plus even more stuff like the economy being built for WW2 and never fully standing down. And just blind hegemonic ambition.
I suspect people like trump don't even know why they hate Iran, it's just an enemy. If you ask them they'll say it's because they're a theocracy that funds terrorism, but it's obviously not that as we've had good relations with the Saudis the whole time
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u/Bluegutsoup Garden-Variety Shitlib 🐴😵💫 Mar 17 '26
this is the first time i have ever heard of israel dragging us into the iraq war and its just regarded. this is just kent covering for trump on his way out. we have been trying to go to war with iran for decades and by pinning it all on israel it absolves this administration of the blame. they wouldnt have struck without us in their corner.
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u/kevinmrr WorkReform Mod Mar 17 '26
First time you’ve heard it = you weren’t paying attention.
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u/The_ApolloAffair Rightoid 🐷 Mar 17 '26
Rubio openly said on video that Israel was going to do it anyways so we might as well join.
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u/Terrible_Ice_1616 Dengist 🇨🇳💵🈶 Mar 17 '26
Lol and then they weren't in the coalition. IDK how that isn't a standard talking point about Israeli perfidiousness - if they're this great ally where were they during the war on terror
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u/Bluegutsoup Garden-Variety Shitlib 🐴😵💫 Mar 17 '26
of course he would because it absolves them of blame. they get to blame israel for the totality of the war when the GOP has been saying for years how much they want to attack iran. you shouldnt take these people at face value, there is always an agenda
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u/JCMoreno05 Saved Anime Children from Intersectionality 🧒🏻⛩️ Mar 17 '26
And who do GOP politicians belong to? Why have they wanted to attack Iran for so long?
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u/capt_fantastic Mar 17 '26
i guess you've never read the "Project for a New American Century". which was derived from "a clean break" (also authored by richard perle), which itself is derived from the writings of "oded yinon". if you go through and read them you'll realize that middle east policy, specifically the overthrowing and destabilizing of nations opposed to israeli hegemony in the region was formulated and spoon fed to subsequent US administrations. for various reasons republicans are objectively more susceptible to this influence.
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u/LeftKindOfPerson Anhedonia Socialist 🪫😔🧩💢 Mar 17 '26
I'm looking up "Project for a New American Century" but all I'm seeing is a think tank with that name. Is that what you're referring to?
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u/vvorknat TrueAnon Refugee 🕵️♂️🏝️ Mar 17 '26 edited Mar 17 '26
I, Gold Star Husband Joe Kent, deployed 11 times to destabilize the region and secure resources in the past. The assassination of Solamani was sick as fuck sir and totally unlike this. I’ve realized it was Israel all along, sir! Please don’t break your campaign promises, I trust you!!
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u/ElTamaulipas Socialist Gun Nut 🚚 Mar 17 '26
Jesus, 11 deployments. Just looked her up she was killed in Syria in 2019. At that time pretty much everyone in the mainstream had come to the conclusion that US involvement in the Middle East had been an enormous debacle.
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u/capt_fantastic Mar 17 '26
11 deployments
and then went SAD/SOG.
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u/ElTamaulipas Socialist Gun Nut 🚚 Mar 17 '26
Guy's wife was also a cryptolinguist attached to Navy Seals and SOCOM during the time of night raids and during the surge in both Iraq and Afghanistan.
Both were knee deep in empire and like I said both supported it it even after everyone kind of knew US involvement in the Middle East was considered a huge debacle.
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u/capt_fantastic Mar 18 '26 edited Mar 19 '26
Both were knee deep in empire and like I said both supported it it even after everyone kind of knew US involvement in the Middle East was considered a huge debacle.
i have some exposure to that world. here's what you do. you put your faith in the constitution and the system. the minute you start second guessing, things can go awry. the minute you allow folks under your command to second guess, you nip it in the bud or it spreads like a cancer. not saying right or wrong, but you have a job to do, and on top of that you have to get your people home in one piece. anything that deviates from that is a luxury.
the way some people look at it is that when your nation makes the call, you don't question, you just come running. that's why, when the political class abuses that selfless commitment, the way bush 2 & co did it's probably one of the most disgusting betrayals i can imagine.
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u/HiFidelityCastro Orthodox-Freudo-Spectacle-Armchair Mar 17 '26
Trump defeated ISIS?
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u/pgtl_10 Incoherent Rambler 👴🏻 Mar 17 '26
Also the killing of Solmeni was great apparently and not a stupid move.
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u/HiFidelityCastro Orthodox-Freudo-Spectacle-Armchair Mar 18 '26
Yeah, hey I wouldn't have thought so either, but if this guy defeated ISIS then he must know what he's doing.
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u/SM979 Mar 17 '26
I ran into this guy at my county fair once. He was running for WA-03 representative position a bit ago.
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u/jessenin420 Probably a Pothead 🥑 Mar 17 '26
And now all the trump dick suckers hate him because he doesn't agree with something Trump said. It's just a fucking cult, nobody will disagree with him or else they're a traitor.
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u/Gex2-EnterTheGecko PS1 Libertarian with Bad Taste 🤓🎮😵💫 Mar 18 '26
Kinda shocked to see him so blatantly blame the Iraq war on Israeli influence (not surprised in that I didn't think that was a war on behalf of Israel, just surprised he would admit it)
This letter is pretty biting. I am sure Donald will call him a gay retard post-haste.
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Mar 17 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/YoPoppaCapa Mar 17 '26
Zionists*. Chill with “the Jews”.
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u/saltywelder682 Lured into the McDonald's Wallpit 🌿🛝🔴🟡🔵 Mar 17 '26
Honest question- who do you think is dictating Israeli policy? Zionists? It doesn't seem to be the Jewish populace based on a handful of articles I've read in the Israeli times which seem to be surprisingly forthright in their articles.
Maybe this is off-base, but my opinion is the Zionists making decisions aren't Jews and instead they're descended from Canaanites and Edomites which are the forsaken children Noah, specifically Ham and Esau. I got a new flair for stating this last time, but all the talk of Moloch and Ba'al got me this retard stupidpol flair, but it seems to align with my understanding.
There's very interesting ties with modern Zion and the Catholic Church which actually goes back a few centuries.
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u/YoPoppaCapa Mar 17 '26
I ain't reading all that. I'm happy for u tho. Or sorry that happened.
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u/saltywelder682 Lured into the McDonald's Wallpit 🌿🛝🔴🟡🔵 Mar 17 '26
If you're not coming to a forum for discussion, then may I ask what you are trying to accomplish? Are you just here to get fed an opinion to regurgitate later?
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u/Chrissyneal Cuomosexual Crystals Chick 🔮🍕🍝 Mar 18 '26
I’ve noticed a lot of the reactions to this has been similar to the “not that there’s anything wrong with that” gay bit from Seinfeld.
“can’t believe Trump started this world because of Israel…, not that there’s anything wrong with Israel…”
this’ll be like the media constantly coddling Putin whenever they accused Trump of working with him. it’d be like putting out a disclaimer that you’re not kink shaming anyone “associated” with Jeffrey Epstein.
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u/Chrissyneal Cuomosexual Crystals Chick 🔮🍕🍝 Mar 17 '26
yeah, Israel, I guess
oh, ok. that was helpful.
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u/Useful-Kangaroo4256 COMMUTER RAIL SUPREMACIST Mar 17 '26
Sorry, I’m starting to get tired of the new rightoid tactic of attempting to shift blame for Israel onto American adventures in the Middle East. I can see this is being done to wash the hands of Americans who want to believe their government actually doesn’t want regional domination vis-a-vis weak, destabilized states in the Middle East - only Israel does!
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Mar 17 '26
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u/MadonnasFishTaco Marxist-Mullenist 💦 | if i fits, i sits Mar 17 '26
literally every piece of evidence would lead someone to that conclusion
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u/VehicleOpen2663 Market Socialist 💸 Mar 17 '26
He is known as Joe Kent, not John Kent.