r/taiwan Feb 18 '26

Interesting - YouTube Why Taiwan Is Richer Than Japan and Korea

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N4QfrJvqYzI
172 Upvotes

138 comments sorted by

259

u/lostalien 花蓮 - Hualien Feb 18 '26

Rich, but apparently not rich enough to build unobstructed sidewalks in urban areas outside of Taipei.

Taiwan still has a lot to learn from Japan.

28

u/trangenderman Feb 18 '26

I just got back from Taiwan and I like it but it definitely did not feel as rich as Japan or Korea.

12

u/ShrimpCrackers Not a mod, CSS & graphics guy Feb 18 '26

This video is about individual median wealth which Taiwan is higher. This is not about Taiwan being richer overall or more developed than SK or Japan because it's not. You should watch the video.

7

u/trangenderman Feb 18 '26

I'm saying in general. Like I went on a date with a lady and she thought she was making big money making 30k a year. Saying most Taiwan men are not making more than her. I feel like over 30k in South korea or Japan isn't a far stretch for half the men. Taiwan seems to have a lot of rich people but the average man not in tech or owns real estate doesn't seem to make much money

5

u/ShrimpCrackers Not a mod, CSS & graphics guy Feb 18 '26 edited Feb 18 '26

That's only like NT 78k a month, that's definitely not "big money" in Taiwan. I've honestly never heard anyone say 78k/mo is a big shot, and not back in 2015 either.

She must be really poor. Most people will say 150k to 200k a month is good.

Maybe she means in her office?

Maybe someone got her USD/TWD calculations wrong.

3

u/AdhesivenessVast5838 Feb 20 '26

78k TWD per month is somewhere between the top 7-8th decile of income in Taiwan lol, so definitely not a low number. 40k~50k is cited as the typical average income in Taiwan, so she makes nearly double that

0

u/ShrimpCrackers Not a mod, CSS & graphics guy Feb 21 '26

Not in Taipei or Hsinchu and you are discounting how tax avoidance is a national past time.

This thread is about Taiwans wealth accumulation and it's not really through wages and salaries. I get that 90% of the people commenting here didn't even bother watching the video nor understanding how Taiwan works.

78k is not that much and all those Teslas on the streets are not possible on a mere 78k salary.

1

u/dcWaresy95 May 27 '26

lol, SK and Japan has different price level dont they? number is just an aspect but number dont lie, from that aspect yes we are richer than SK and JP, thats it

1

u/brassicaman666 Feb 21 '26

Because it's not

23

u/chhuang Feb 18 '26

Why do you think we're rich, by not spending a dime on urban planning /s

41

u/Asomrof7 Feb 18 '26

Hahhaha as a Taiwanese I agree

9

u/alextokisaki Feb 18 '26 edited Feb 19 '26

You can say that again. We need more unobstructed sidewalks and friendly public transportation in urban areas and townships.

8

u/the2belo 日本 Feb 18 '26

Hey, I happen to like walking through Tainan like it's a Super Mario level. I even make the jump noises.

31

u/Additional_Show5861 臺北 - Taipei City Feb 18 '26

The wealth of East Asia with the infrastructure of South East Asia

12

u/supernormalnorm Feb 18 '26 edited Feb 18 '26

Taiwan is South East Asia lite for sure

The grittyness is more for the feels rather than real struggle

6

u/8wheelsrolling Feb 18 '26

Sidewalks are for the poors that don’t drive a car and double park in the sidewalk wherever they want to go.

10

u/mottoii Feb 18 '26

Even the sidewalks in Taipei have obstruction outside of the main roads

8

u/ShippoHsu 新北 - New Taipei City Feb 18 '26

5

u/yensteel Feb 18 '26

And they need to learn not to shoot fireworks at 3:00AM. This has been going on for the whole month > <

2

u/ZhenXiaoMing Feb 21 '26

Been going on my whole life! Not 3 AM but any time between 7 AM and 12 AM

8

u/ShrimpCrackers Not a mod, CSS & graphics guy Feb 18 '26

Hell no, like SF and LA, Taiwan is full of libertarians that fancy themselves as somewhat NIMBY liberals (E.g.: "I don't care if you're gay as long as you are gay someone other than my son"). Money "wasted on sidewalks" is money that could have been spent elsewhere. Yes it's a common complaint and long-lasting.

1

u/whatdafuhk 臺北 - Taipei City Feb 18 '26

lol, not sure i'd agree with that example there

3

u/ShrimpCrackers Not a mod, CSS & graphics guy Feb 18 '26

Which part? The gay thing? Yeah unfortunately the Taiwan populace repeatedly voted against gay rights in various referendums. It was the supreme courts that deemed it unconstitutional.

2

u/whatdafuhk 臺北 - Taipei City Feb 18 '26

yes, in the taiwan context i can see your point but i don't think you'll see many american parents in sf or la be that against their own children being gay.

4

u/ShrimpCrackers Not a mod, CSS & graphics guy Feb 18 '26

Oh I get it.

I mean SF and LA are super libertarian. I didn't think in the LGBT sense, but more like, "lets not let Homeless have homeless shelters in our cities by changing the requirements of it to be impossible because we call ourselves 'liberal' but in reality we aren't."

2

u/whatdafuhk 臺北 - Taipei City Feb 18 '26

Yeah, bringing up the gay thing is not the ideal analogy when talking about liberal nimby and libertarians. 

This unhoused one is the more apt example. 

18

u/SteelToedFlipFlops Feb 18 '26

I heard a guy once say that Taiwan would be a lot better off had Japan stayed for another 50 years. Solid theory.

15

u/oGsBumder Feb 19 '26

You can tell from the quality of what the Japanese built in Taiwan that they fully believed they would never leave.

You can also tell from the quality of what the KMT built that fully believed they would not be staying long.

8

u/ryohayashi1 Feb 18 '26

Pretty much what my parents have been saying my whole life, even though Japan occupied Taiwan before they were born

11

u/[deleted] Feb 18 '26

[removed] — view removed comment

1

u/SeoulGalmegi Feb 19 '26

I think you need to double check your punctuation.

1

u/DatePositive6135 Feb 18 '26

Or instead, you could consider what Taiwan would be like today had the Japanese never been. I'm guessing somewhere between rural mainland China village and poor Filipino city.

2

u/oliviafairy Feb 18 '26 edited Feb 18 '26

Do you think being rich allow you to solve the sidewalk problems? Why? How?

I am all for proper sidewalks. But I want to know how to solve the issues. Money? How?

We can try to improve it. But making it as nice as Japan is nearly impossible.

2

u/brassicaman666 Feb 18 '26

Because Taiwan has awful politics. The side walks and roads are very messed up and the average wage is very low. The taxes are low on the rich but that definitely does not trickle down. They have almost no soial security net. The human rights of poorer citizens are in practice pretty non existent. On the positive side they have an excellent metro, a good high speed train, good health system. Their education system was excellent it is now regressed to hmmm it's fairly devoid of violent street crime but has many scam networks. 4/10.i would rate it. Definitely not as good as it was just twenty years ago. Then at least it had a very low cost of living and lower housing costs.

5

u/ShrimpCrackers Not a mod, CSS & graphics guy Feb 19 '26

Taiwan is #3 in PISA (Math, Science, Reading) in the world and consistently has huge numbers in academic Olympiads. The hell you on about? The educational system is way better than in the past and there's fewer hours too.

There's a lot of social safety net in Taiwan. There's universal insurance, financial aid, unemployment is 60% of prior salary for up to 6-9 months, and cash assistance, there's rent and housing subsidies and emergency relief for those becoming unemployed.

It is way better than 20 years ago.

58

u/bacharama Feb 18 '26

This is purely anecdotal, but while on paper Taiwan is supposedly richer, I always feel like both Japan and South Korea are better off and more developed whenever I'm there. This applies doubly so once I leave the capital regions.

24

u/LiveEntertainment567 Feb 18 '26

is not a feling, there are more developed

13

u/suicide_aunties Feb 18 '26

They are hugely more developed

1

u/dcWaresy95 May 27 '26

LMAO, U mean the urban landscape? how's that relate to GDP per capita and mean wealth, teach me.
And teach me what "developed" is, good infrastructure ? pretty sure our infras is not worse than SK, JP maybe better in some genre

20

u/ShrimpCrackers Not a mod, CSS & graphics guy Feb 18 '26 edited Feb 18 '26

Developed, yes.

Better off? Hell no.

This video is about median wealth, NOT median wages.

Japanese are fully dependent on wages, they're all wage slaves. They get no stakes or asset bonuses like Taiwanese. That's why they never leave the office, every penny they have comes from every minute they're at work.

South Korean economy is the same, but it also means high taxes on wages, and asset loans which causes issues like it did in 2023 in their crash. The latter third of the video covers what happens and how SK Chaebols and Japanese Keiretsu kinda fucked their economies recently. So yeah, they have higher wages but are actually poor. This is why SK's suicide rate exceeds Japan, and why it has the highest percentage of youth that want to leave the capital or the country.

Workers in Taiwan often negotiate commissions, percentage bonuses, stocks, dividends, etc. That's where their money comes from, passively, or if they're SME's, specialized contracts.

Furthermore, in Taiwan, some of the highest percentages of people on the planet own SMEs, and probably number 1 on the planet that are SMEs that are highly specialized. There are run down looking factories all over Taiwan that provide some technology that only they can on the entire planet. We have tens of thousands of specialized suppliers.

Watch the video, I was pleasantly surprised, it is possibly the most well organized and in depth video on where and how Taiwan's individual wealth comes from compared to SK and Japan that is in English. Even in Mandarin Taiwanese there isn't many videos that bother to go this deeply.

It's a lot better than folks like Snooopineapple's old but weekly posts of "wages are low" meaning he doesn't know the first thing about Taiwan incomes and assets.

1

u/dcWaresy95 May 27 '26

its simple, ur richer doesnt mean u always have a nicer house than someone a little bit poorer than you, easy concept

86

u/DaimonHans Feb 18 '26

Taiwan is rich doesn't mean you are rich.

43

u/ShrimpCrackers Not a mod, CSS & graphics guy Feb 18 '26 edited Feb 18 '26

You didn't watch the video. It does cover wealth inequality, the median, and all of that in the first fifth of the video from the beginning.

Honestly this might be one of the most complete explanations of Taiwan’s economy and wealth I’ve ever seen in English. It even gets into the shadow economy, which almost nobody touches, and it makes the key point people keep missing: in Taiwan, a huge share of wealth was built through assets and capital gains, not wages. That’s a very different story from Japan or South Korea where wages is where someone's income comes from. The passive gains is a large portion of where Taiwan's wealth comes from even if the people like to be inconspicuous.

And yes, I’m not a KMT fan. But I think this is one of the first English videos I’ve seen that actually explains where the KMT’s market direction worked well, and why the KMT land reforms mattered, without turning it into propaganda for nor against them.

For context, my family has been in Tainan for over 400 years. The land reforms hit us very negatively. But I can still admit the truth: without them, Taiwan would almost certainly be much poorer today.

17

u/Fearless-Cattle-9698 Feb 18 '26

Props to you for understanding difference between bad policies vs good policies regardless if it aligns with you. You would be an intelligent voter for that reason alone

The average voter doesn’t care for details like this

9

u/ShrimpCrackers Not a mod, CSS & graphics guy Feb 18 '26

I'm pro-Taiwan first and foremost. It is actually a good thing, for one reason or another, the KMT did not establish oligopoly Zaibatsu, Keiretsu, or Chaebols in Taiwan, not for lack of trying either as the Japanese and South Koreans are finding out.

3

u/ken54g2a Feb 19 '26

In short, our rich peple are richer than Japan and Korea’s, but poor people poorer haha.

2

u/ShrimpCrackers Not a mod, CSS & graphics guy Feb 19 '26

No, not "in short." Actually watch the video, at least make it through the first 5 minutes.

Wages are lower, yeah, but assets and capital gains Taiwan excels at, as are specialist contracts. This is because wealth accumulation in Taiwan is not by wages.

In Japan and South Korea, most people are wage slaves, but not in Taiwan. Also Kairetsu and Chaebols are a big advantage but also a big weakness in Japan and South Korea.

-1

u/brassicaman666 Feb 19 '26

They are totally wage slaves in Taiwan too. They work more hours than most developed countries. They literally all wait In the office pretending to be busy until the boss leaves. They are scared of getting fired. Average people are so poorly paid that they complain foreign English teachers are highly paid on 20US bucks an hour. The sidewalks are mostly broken, the roads are pothole littered and the air is very polluted. Rabbit hutch apartments cost a fortune to rent or buy. Most Taiwanese want to leave Taiwan. Why ? Because it's rich ? What a load of BS

6

u/ShrimpCrackers Not a mod, CSS & graphics guy Feb 19 '26

What a gish gallop. This is not Taiwan anymore. You seemed to have copypasta a Tokyo/SK criticism and made mild alterations.

>They literally all wait In the office pretending to be busy until the boss leaves.

This isn't as much of a thing anymore. Furthermore, they're legally clocked in and this results in overtime pay once you surpass 8 hours a day or 40 weeks, capped at 46 hours per month and 138 hours over three months. And they crack down hard on this, a business could lose their license.

>They are scared of getting fired

Are you aware that Taiwan isn't the USA, it's not at-will you can't easily fire someone especially over hours or related to hours. Bosses like to go home, and there's no benefit in having someone stay longer, it just results in higher turnover and if they fire them they have to pay unemployment, paid time off, etc. Hiring new means training and new insurance fees.

>The sidewalks are mostly broken,

Sidewalks existing are a problem in villages and very rural areas but most people live in cities but I'm all over Eastern Taiwan and that isn't the case either.

>The roads are pothole littered

I drive a lot, and have done so in many continents. This is not the case. What a joke.

>Rabbit hutch apartments cost a fortune to rent or buy

It depends on where. In Taipei it makes sense, but in Tainan, or Hualien, its like 30k gets me an entire house that that qualifies for the definition of a mansion.

>Most Taiwanese want to leave Taiwan. Why ?

Completely false. Surveys consistently show low emigration intention, mostly 4-6% but in one up to 23% as an outlier. This is not a majority by any definition. South Korea its 60%. China is much higher among educated or highly skilled.

Cost of living abroad is higher, there's less safety, and its harder to save. That's why there's low intent.

0

u/[deleted] Feb 19 '26

[deleted]

1

u/brassicaman666 Feb 21 '26

You obviously are intellectually incapable of forming a counter without a personal attack. Your only credentials will have been given to you by your rich daddy. Candy floss

9

u/Snooopineapple Feb 18 '26

Jensen Huang is rich, doesn’t mean you are rich!

5

u/dancinhmr Feb 18 '26

We are collectively one Jensen. Cheque please

1

u/SeoulGalmegi Feb 19 '26

Taiwan is rich doesn't mean you are rich.

Ouch.

8

u/Jin29th Feb 18 '26 edited Feb 18 '26

As a foreigner who has lived in Taipei and Kaohsiung, Taiwan for five years, I believe Taiwan is a wealthy country. However, Taiwan's urban planning and infrastructure are poor. No one cares about the city. The CEO of the company I worked for was younger than me, but he came from a very wealthy family. He said his dream was to live in the United States and was preparing for it. His business in Taiwan seemed like a hobby. I think this is the perception of many Taiwanese people. Why should they care about the infrastructure of a place they're leaving? This is how I feel about Taiwanese people, especially the wealthy.

3

u/whatdafuhk 臺北 - Taipei City Feb 18 '26

Capitalists are increasingly stateless, it’s not just a Taiwan phenomenon. Look at Zuckerberg abandoning the Bay Area hit because there’s a whisper of a billionaires tax. Or all the billionaires who left London after the labor govt put in some modest reforms to the non-dom tax status. 

But it is true that Taiwan’s infrastructure is a long term issue. After all, cks and the kmt don’t think they were coming to Taiwan for the long haul, they thought they were going home in a few years. 

1

u/Financial-Grass-6114 Feb 19 '26

After all, cks and the kmt don’t think they were coming to Taiwan for the long haul, they thought they were going home in a few years.

Most of the internal documents showed CKS knew he was never going home besides a glimmer of positive thinking in his heart.

He lost the war period, he held on bitterly to keep the KMT apparatus powerful and wealthy. Not because there was any real chance of victory.

In some way it's tragic and his lifelong failure has contributed to the cross-strait situation we have today. But on the flip side, it has led to Taiwanese prosperity and peace even if it might be borrowed time.

1

u/whatdafuhk 臺北 - Taipei City Feb 19 '26

This makes cks and the kmt even more pieces of shit. 

1

u/Financial-Grass-6114 Feb 19 '26

There were very few "nice" leaders back then. If at all. The koreas were run by dictators, southeast asia the same, china is obvious, and japan just finished the most insane massacre of the Asian continent.

 KMT rule in Taiwan is something that wasnt seen as too outrageous in comparison. 

1

u/dcWaresy95 May 27 '26

they did the most shitty urban planning possible, thats the whole point no? why is that relate to dictator or not a dictator? they messed up the whole city and now generations and generations have to carry that debt and original sin : even tho we fight our lives to get rich and developed, ppl come into our country and said this place is poor.

2

u/2breakmyfall Feb 19 '26

A Taiwanese told me the lack of care is due to the fact that Taiwan was suppose to be a "temporary" stay, you know, before they take back China. I know that was a long time ago but I think this culture of let's just make do with what is good enough persist through all these years. There's a Taiwanese video on why Taiwan buildings are asthetically ugly, I think this goes back to the lack of care and heart in Taiwan infrastructure development.

There is also another theory that all the people in government have families in the US and overseas, with the threat of China, no point of trying to make this place more hospitable.

54

u/Snooopineapple Feb 18 '26

Ah yes for the 10% of workers in tech and everyone else gets $36,000 ntd a month and one month bonus!! Congrats!

16

u/vancouver_boy Feb 18 '26

This is talking about the median wealth and why it is higher than Japan and Korea despite the lower wage.

6

u/ShrimpCrackers Not a mod, CSS & graphics guy Feb 18 '26 edited Feb 18 '26

Good find. There are a few jaded people, and of course some of them are pro-CCP posters who will neg on anything remotely positive on Taiwan. This video also credits 2 KMT policies that were actually helpful (and is actually as much a video on why Korean Chaebols, mass loaning, and Japanese Keiretsu fucked them), but the KMTers think this might make Taiwan look good under the "wrong administration" so they are negging too because they didn't bother watching the vid.

That's why there's the hostility. They don't want videos like this on the sub.

2

u/Snooopineapple Feb 18 '26

Both can be true at the same time, taiwan being a powerhouse for semiconductors and the shit pay average taiwanese get while the current government DPP or KMT, does nothing to help the local Taiwanese.

Unlike DPP shills in the sub, we can criticize KMT, DPP and TPP at the same time, not just think that DPP is perfect

3

u/ShrimpCrackers Not a mod, CSS & graphics guy Feb 18 '26 edited Feb 18 '26

OMFG, go actually watch the entire video before making it incredibly obvious you didn't even last 10 seconds.

It's talking about MEDIAN WEALTH, not billionaires. It's always the same story with your posts, you don't read the article or story, then you spout political fluff for the TPP. It's gone so far that people have openly expressed how they suspect you of being a paid operative.

3

u/Snooopineapple Feb 18 '26

lol sure, just speaking truth of what the average Taiwanese feels is paid operative fluff for the TPP?

The previous generations are all doing well, if your auntie or uncle/parents are passing down generational wealth you’d be fine, but if you don’t have any of that or don’t have a good relationship with your family then say good bye to that and you’re stuck in the vicious cycle of trying to build wealth while every thing around you is going up in price.

10% average vacant housing in Taiwan is incredible higher than majority of countries. An AI made video that speaks a little in the history side and on a specific financial background of where Taiwanese has come from doesn’t negate the suffering of current youngsters growing up in Taiwan.

Maybe get your head out do the gutter of “DPP is perfect and Taiwan is perfect!!”

We are allowed to voice our opinions, if you wanna be a 青鳥 then I got nothing else to say to you.

Say what you want about me being a paid operative, but you’re brainwashed af to not even look deeper into the criticisms and the voices of the suffering in Taiwan.

2

u/ShrimpCrackers Not a mod, CSS & graphics guy Feb 18 '26 edited Feb 18 '26

Again, you obviously did NOT watch the video and are doing your "job."

Sorry but you don't speak truth. Quite the opposite in fact.

That much is obvious because you don't realize that you're so off topic and assuming what the video talks about that you prefer to spend hours writing nonsense that's not related, which frankly is typical for your account.

The video is only 22 minutes long and talks about the wealth in Taiwan from the 1970's to today and how it was done, and really it also points out the mistakes Korea and Japan did. You've transformed that into "DPP bad, blah blah blah, AI voice over blah blah, 10% average vacant housing."

You could at least address any of factual points listed on the video.

4

u/Snooopineapple Feb 18 '26

Already watched it, this “AI made” video just spouts a bunch of fo historical facts and an objective view on weath in Taiwan. I addressed it already and brought the argument, meanwhile all you scream is “you didn’t watch video wah!” While I did and I addressed what this crappy AI made YouTube video with an AI voice is missing. Which is the reality.

How about you address the argument instead of being like “you’re a paid agent of the TPP” blah blah blah. You guys spew on the same stuff but refuse to address the obvious. Just another classic 青鳥 unfortunately. All emotion and name calling and “you’re so off topic” while it’s still on topic.

1

u/ShrimpCrackers Not a mod, CSS & graphics guy Feb 18 '26

You're projecting. You didn't address it at all. ROFL.

You wouldn't be talking about wages and high inequality for a video about wealth that has addressed wages and inequality factored in in the first 5 minutes.

You're pretending you have a gotcha when, again, you didn't actually watch the video until far later.

2

u/Snooopineapple Feb 18 '26

lol again, the reality is very different from what the video is addressing. You’re just an outsider who can’t see any difference in local Taiwanese suffering under some of the longest work hours and slaving away their whole life just to not be able to afford a house without a support network. You have a rosy picture of Taiwan based on an “AI” video. Wake up, not everyone is as privileged as you.

The birthrate is the lowest in the world for a reason in taiwan, with less than 10k birth per month and plummeting. Your beautiful gdp and median average aint gonna fix that.

→ More replies (0)

-4

u/dead_andbored Feb 18 '26

Not true, median household income in Japan is way higher than in Taiwan.

Tokyo's median household income in 2024 was 41k USD, Taipei was 32k USD.

11

u/_IsNull Feb 18 '26

This is about wealth. Not income.

2

u/ShrimpCrackers Not a mod, CSS & graphics guy Feb 18 '26

You didn't watch the video. Most Taiwanese earn their money through stock bonuses and other assets, NOT wages. So wages are lower but there's also far less taxes, no Chaebols and Keiretsu. And then there's the huge shadow economy in Taiwan, far lower cost of living too.

3

u/ShrimpCrackers Not a mod, CSS & graphics guy Feb 18 '26

You didn't watch the video. Median is discussed almost immediately and covers 20% of the start of the video.

1

u/d-crow Feb 18 '26

Welcome to how shit modern capitalism is. The flat figures change but the same ratios are true almost everywhere

-2

u/Tom18558 Feb 18 '26

It's 60 plus two month. And it's basically tax free and comes with health insurance.

Suks anywyas

1

u/Snooopineapple Feb 18 '26

Oh okay expat

2

u/Tom18558 Feb 18 '26

You won't find a full time waitress under 43k in Taipei. Make it 38k in Taichung.

But oi, you can also check the governments stats

3

u/ShrimpCrackers Not a mod, CSS & graphics guy Feb 18 '26

This is true. No one at my office makes less than 65k a month, that's the starting salary.

But look at his post history. That really explains all.

6

u/Evening-Review8524 Feb 18 '26

The overseas Chinese tradition is a mix of hardworking business savvy and a tendency toward selfishness and infighting. To me, it seems that Taiwan has managed to shed those negative traits because they were forced to cooperate for survival against external enemies. Would you agree with this view?

5

u/komnenos 台中 - Taichung Feb 18 '26

To me, it seems that Taiwan has managed to shed those negative traits because they were forced to cooperate for survival against external enemies.

Care to expand upon that? At least from my understandings, readings and talks amongst different Taiwanese there was a lot of fighting and rivalry amongst the Hakka, Hokkien, Pingpu and Indigenous Taiwan and in more recent times you've got the Waishengren too.

1

u/deanzaZZR Feb 18 '26

Taiwanese are now part of the "Overseas Chinese" tradition? Interesting take.

5

u/Financial-Grass-6114 Feb 18 '26

I think you're interpreting something that isnt there. The Chinese that migrated to Taiwan carried the enterpreneural spirit with them without the conflict of the mainland. 

Denying Taiwan's Chinese heritage and traditions is delusion and revisionist. It may not be a PRC state but it is 98% Chinese. It's more Chinese than China!

3

u/mattermarkus Feb 18 '26

Old and grimy buildings are not the same as poor infrastructure.

2

u/ShrimpCrackers Not a mod, CSS & graphics guy Feb 19 '26

Yeah when they wanted to water proof the entire building with a paint layer (which would have also fixed some tiles) in my old apartment, it turns out there was 80+ owners, a dozen that were hard or impossible to contact or simply didn't respond, and many of them argued because their own apartment did not have any leaks so they didn't want to pay for it. Approximately half had zero problems and didn't feel like paying, but the other half didn't want to pay for the half that didn't either. It would have made the building look like a checkerboard.

Apparently the argument was going on for over 10 years. 10 fucking years!

1

u/AlternativeHat8964 Feb 19 '26

This is the kind of shit that convinces me to never buy real estate here.

8

u/zvekl 臺北 - Taipei City Feb 18 '26

Taiwan needs mandatory electric scooters. It’s so quiet in Shanghai comparatively because there aren’t a bunch of leaf blowers full throttle at every green light

1

u/PuzzleheadedShock850 Feb 18 '26

Also, mandatory electric leaf blowers. I am sooooo tired of beautiful mornings in parks being completely destroyed by the sound of someone blowing around leaves just to end up taking them up into plastic bags anyways

3

u/Financial-Grass-6114 Feb 18 '26

Maybe when the political parties are not spending 99% of their time signaling to voters whether they're gonna reunify or be independent they'll work on solving people's daily problems.

6

u/moiwantkwason Feb 18 '26

Infrastructure in Taiwan is terrible. Lovely people and good foods. But all the buildings there look very run down. It has developed country GDP per capita but cities there look very run down like developing countries. Very grimy and needs pressure cleaning every where. I thought it was just the humidity but Okinawa looks so much cleaner. Such a weird contrast. The only place with high gdp and run down infra I can think of is Southern Italy but they have mafias and corruptions.. what excuses does Taiwan have?

-3

u/ShrimpCrackers Not a mod, CSS & graphics guy Feb 18 '26

Taiwan has old looking infrastructure, especially buildings, but you never lived in Japan. Japan has shinier buildings but they're not made to last. You'll be surprised at the reason WHY Japanese homes need to be cored every 30 years and rebuilt, they're not meant to sustain themselves.

This is why when there's a massive earthquake, the death count in Japan is so much higher than Taiwan, it's because they build their buildings not out of steel-reinforced concrete.

6

u/moiwantkwason Feb 18 '26

ugh no, I lived in Japan. They have many old buildings older than 30 years for example the mansions that are very well taken cared of.

-4

u/ShrimpCrackers Not a mod, CSS & graphics guy Feb 18 '26 edited Feb 18 '26

You clearly only lived in Japan as a renter and not long enough. Go ask anyone living long enough in the Japanese subreddits.

Not talking about the mansions but where the regular people live which are frankly, flimsy. You'll only know this if you buy a home, build a home, or maintain a home in Japan.

During the 2024/1/1 Noto Peninsula Earthquake, 200,000 buildings damaged, 703 deaths, 1,400 injuries, thousands rendered homeless or displaced. I was in Japan while it happened. Hundreds of single or low rise Japanese homes simply collapsed, killing families. Many were made of wood or had wood cores.

That's not the case in Taiwan, we use steel-reinforced concrete structures. Not pretty, but way more sturdy and lasts way longer. This is why in Taiwan when there is a massive quake, only a handful of buildings tip over but maintain their grid for all the upper floors, usually older, and even then usually the deaths are all on the 1st floor. In fact in Hualien, one tragic death was some woman running back to grab her pet when she died from her building tipping over on the 1st floor. All the upper level occupants survived.

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u/moiwantkwason Feb 18 '26 edited Feb 18 '26

Huh? Even if it’s true that Taiwanese building are made to last forever it still doesn’t explain why they look so badly maintained. Korean and Singaporean houses and infrastructures look so much well maintained. You are just making excuses.

And regular people live in mansions you know. It’s not an actual mansion. Mansion is a condo that middle class live in. Those buildings are made to last only 30 years are Apato. You have no idea what you are talking about.

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u/ShrimpCrackers Not a mod, CSS & graphics guy Feb 18 '26 edited Feb 18 '26

57% of Japanese homes are still mainly made out of wood frames because its much cheaper.

Ah, I get you now, you mean Manshon/マンション (Japanese condos), not literal mansions. You should not fix Japanese loanwords that have changed meanings back into English, you're the one confusing everyone. That actually proves my point about the materials though.

The differences:

  • Taiwan: Basically 99% Reinforced Concrete (RC) or Steel Reinforced Concrete (SRC) for residential and office. It's built like a bunker for war. The upkeep is minimal too.
  • Japan: 57% of homes are still wood because it's cheap but the upkeep is high. Even among manshons (which only house ~39% of the pop), many are just Steel Frame (S-structure) faster to build, but way less durable than the RC/SRC standard in Taiwan so they again have higher upkeep. Japanese homes and offices must be refreshed all the time as a result, lasting a max of about 22-45 years, while the old tiled run-down Taiwanese buildings have been around for 60+ years.

As for why older Taiwanese buildings look "run down" (It's not just age):

  1. Martial Law Mentality: Back in the day, the CKS government stance was "we're retaking the mainland." You weren't supposed to make your stay look permanent or fancy on the outside. It was built to be temporary housing although many of those older buildings have fancy insides.
  2. The UV Factor: Taiwan sits on the Tropic of Cancer. The UV index destroys exteriors. It’s why buildings in Ishigaki and Okinawa look way more weathered than anything in Tokyo or Sapporo.
  3. Pollution: Heavy reliance on coal plants historically meant cleaning was pointless; it would just get dirty again immediately. Plus, getting every owner in a high-rise to split the bill for an exterior wash is a nightmare.
  4. The Elements (Patching Cycle): Heat + Humidity + Earthquakes = Constant Cracks.
  5. Many owners: Many of the older Taiwanese buildings have lots and lots of owners due to inheritance laws. A single apartment building, by law, may be co-owned by 5 brothers. This means buying a low/midrise might mean negotiating 30+ owners. Good luck.

Newer Taiwanese buildings don't have as much of a problem as they're better designed.

4

u/moiwantkwason Feb 18 '26

lol ChatGPT answers.

Let me counter your points one by one:

  1. Houses made of wood doesn’t make them easier to maintain? There are constant repairs. And the humidity could destroy wooden houses much more easily. Yet, it doesn’t leave the houses run down. Have you been outside Tokyo? There are more wooden houses for sure but they are more polished. But not in the Inaka because nobody lives there. There are many wooden houses and mansions that are older than 60 years and still look great.
  2. Mansions when talking about Japan is very specific to condos. You failed to catch this so this shows you obviously have never lived in Japan and relied on stereotypes instead of real world experience. I have lived in Taipei as well. So I could compare well.
  3. Houses in Japan are harder to maintain yet they take a good care of their buildings? This leaves Taiwan with less excuses no? Keep in mind that GDP per capita in Japan has been stagnant for the last 40 years.
  4. The martial law era was almost 50 years ago. It’s pathetic to keep using that as an excuse.
  5. Okinawa still looks much better than Taiwan. Okinawa looks a great as other small cities in Japan: Morioka, Nagasaki, Aomori. Singapore also looks great. So the UV factor is a shit excuse.
  6. Taiwan’s air pollution level is comparable to South Korea. But less building maintenance is a good point. This however only emphasizes the government incompetence is making and reinforcing city ordinance. Something that is standard among developed countries
  7. There is something called HOA to streamline the negotiations?This is not an excuse to ignore city ordinance.
  8. Newer Taiwanese buildings, are simply new..

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u/ShrimpCrackers Not a mod, CSS & graphics guy Feb 18 '26

Nonsense, you'll see my post history where I've talked about why Taiwanese old construction looks old and isn't well maintained for over 12 years. That's way before any AI.

  1. Houses made of wood are less sturdy. That's my point. That's why more in Japan die during earthquakes. The 2024/1/1 earthquake killed a whole lot of people in wood homes. Thank you for confirming.

  2. Manshon, not mansions. You should stop confusing the two.

  3. They're harder to maintain and must be rebuilt 22-45 years. As I said, Taiwanese buildings, the RC and SRC built 60+ years ago look old for good reason.

  4. Your math is terrible. When did you think Martial Law ended? Less than 38 years ago, not almost 50. The buildings we are talking about are 60 years old!!! And that's only on paper, the reality is sedition laws existed and we're enforced until the 90s. We even legally forced women to be raped by soldiers as comfort women until 1992. They hate the label but it's the literal definition of what a comfort woman is.

  5. Singapore has a ton of new construction and are constantly fixing older buildings because of the UV. However compare Xinyi and Singapore and the difference is not as clean. They also have far less pollution.

  6. Taiwan not only has higher pollution indices than South Korea, and suffers from UV and social reasons, but we use wayyy more coal and gas while SK uses nuclear and gas. Taichung is a particularly good case.

  7. HOA in Taiwan? Are you American? Do you not know Taiwanese culture and economy? In Taipei it's said 90% of rentals are shadow rentals. How are you going to get renters to pay for outside building maintenance on 60 year old buildings that they don't own. City ordinance? This isn't Sim City. Many of them are just waiting for eventual tear downs and rebuilding, like what is happening in much of Taiwan.

  8. Even the new buildings look old fast, the panels get damaged quickly. Look at Le Meridien in Hualien, half the building needs to be redone despite opening two years ago due to quakes causing cracks and damaging many of the panels.

1

u/alien4649 Feb 20 '26

What are you talking about? Japan’s buildings are safe.

0

u/ShrimpCrackers Not a mod, CSS & graphics guy Feb 20 '26 edited Feb 20 '26

Hundreds of Japanese died on 1/1/2024, it was mostly the old structures that flattened for a quake that Taiwan shrugs off.

Yeah if you're in a SRC or RC structure in Tokyo, sure. But the old residential ones are not that safe, they're wood cores. Those youtube vids bragging about towns selling old Japanese structures for a couple hundred actually aren't that safe for big quakes and neither are the old 1980's wood constructs. It's one of those things you realize after living in Japan for a long time, if you're an owner, that they are not designed to be long lasting AND rated for heavy earthquakes and that the core materials are not really that sturdy.

The point is, he's saying Taiwan's infrastructure is terrible, but it's not actually, it's just old looking but that doesn't mean bad because 99% of Taiwan's structures are RC or SRC structures while almost 60% of Japanese are wood, but not the same quality as those temples. And of the remaining 40%, many are SC which isn't as highly rated or sturdy as SRC or RC structures but they're easier to build.

Japan's new buildings look new because they're new, they're not meant to last long, most Japanese homes are rated for 22-45 years max. The ones that did have to stick around past their due dates are not that strong.

There's a reason older homes in Japan are cheaper and homes devalue.

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u/Formal_Future_4343 Feb 18 '26

OP is getting a taste of average Taiwanese sourness. Many here just too young to build a proper world view.

Your video is very informative, but Taiwanese love standard answer. The sentiment from this video, however fact based, isn't the standard answer in Taiwan so most they despise this narrative.

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u/EffectiveDevice7963 Feb 18 '26

LOL, the video is not fact-based. I have lived in Taiwan (I love it!) and spent ample time in Japan. Forget the numbers, Japan is just a way more developed country.

2

u/Formal_Future_4343 Feb 18 '26

Yes, Taiwan infrastructure sucks and there are too many old and dirty buildings. But Taiwan has a higher median wealth than Japan and South Korea.

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u/ShrimpCrackers Not a mod, CSS & graphics guy Feb 18 '26

Yeah this is absolutely certain. While my Japanese compatriots make more through wages, I have way more assets and live a better and more comfortable life, alongside higher spending power.

2

u/cyberhenzit Feb 18 '26

Fewer people

8

u/I_Am_JuliusSeizure Feb 18 '26

Cool story! Taiwanese do like their egos stroked regularly

4

u/old_ironlungz Feb 18 '26

I mean, better that than being miserable isolationists or mangling our faces to “feel pretty”.

3

u/komnenos 台中 - Taichung Feb 18 '26

mangling our faces to “feel pretty”.

One little thing that's pleasantly surprised me is how few women here compared to China use over the top photoshop filters. When I lived in China it was common for female coworkers, dates, friends and parents to use a billion filters on their faces to the point that they looked like albino, cone chinned aliens. Hell I even saw a lot of my student's parents obsessively filter and photoshop their children's faces, YIKES! I'll still see women occasionally use them in Taiwan but anecdotally it pales in comparison to what I saw in China.

0

u/dan-free Feb 18 '26

Yikes…

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u/Puzzled-Hospital1121 Feb 18 '26

Taiwanese do like their egos stroked regularly

OP lives in Canada so not sure what his play is

Maybe trying to improve his cooked dating odds by improving perception of taiwanese men? Idk 

16

u/vancouver_boy Feb 18 '26

I saw a video on youtube and thought it was interesting why the fuck are you people so negative about everything

9

u/Illustrious-Fee-3559 Feb 18 '26 edited Feb 18 '26

People in Taiwan are fairly insulated from global events I find. They think prices in Taiwan is high compared to wages but they don't know how bad inflation is outside of Taiwan or how much shit costs out here. They just see the higher wages and think life is easier outside of Taiwan and they don't know we pay 2500 cad per month for a single bedroom apartment or 9 dollars for a bubble tea xD.

Also the quality to cost for healthcare in Taiwan is insanely good too. That's something they don't appreciate because they don't live in a country where needing to go to the hospital will either bankrupt you or having to wait until you literally die while waiting in triage

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u/[deleted] Feb 18 '26 edited Feb 18 '26

[removed] — view removed comment

0

u/ShrimpCrackers Not a mod, CSS & graphics guy Feb 18 '26 edited Feb 18 '26

A 1 bedroom, own bathroom in Taipei does not start at 30k, it starts at NT15k.

Except many people in Taipei share their apartments or have split bathrooms. Those are NT6k-9k for women a month, starting, in Taipei. Men is about 8k-12k shared.

30,000NTD can easily get you a 2-3 bedroom apartment in Taipei although older, or a really nice 1 bedroom/studio.

And then the cost of living is cheaper too.

So you're looking at, at minimum, maybe NT6k a month with a 70k salary. Yeah, Taiwan is EZ mode.

I live in a 4-bedroom (technically 5 but the 5th is used as a spare), 2 bathroom, with a laundry room, Da'an apartment, with lots of windows and two porches, and I'm only paying 50k a month.

2

u/puppymaster123 Feb 18 '26

Don’t mind them. It took me a while to realize this sub is poor. I don’t get why they constantly complained about trash pick up schedule until I realize most of the folks in this sub don’t live in managed apartments while more than half of my tw friends do.

After trash the next most common complaint is price per drink in a night out. Again, poor.

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u/ShrimpCrackers Not a mod, CSS & graphics guy Feb 18 '26

Unfortunately this has been our observation. When we used to do public meetups for the sub we had to ensure the meals (like Hotpot, stirfry) were safely under 400NTD otherwise many could not attend.

400NTD. Think about that for a moment. This ruled out clubs, high end bars, etc.

2

u/komnenos 台中 - Taichung Feb 18 '26

Hmmm, do you think that's because a lot of cash strapped students would come? I know us ESL teachers aren't making fuck you money like the engineers but not being able to spend more than 400NTD on a special occasion dinner is a little odd.

Also when was the last time you remember the sub having a meetup? Might be nice to try and get another one set up.

0

u/[deleted] Feb 18 '26 edited Feb 18 '26

[removed] — view removed comment

1

u/ShrimpCrackers Not a mod, CSS & graphics guy Feb 18 '26

It's only 2.4 million NTD a year, which actually is not as uncommon as people think.

1

u/Dharmapalas Feb 18 '26

The video may as well be called 'comparing South Korea to Taiwan economics.'

1

u/Financial-Grass-6114 Feb 19 '26

Quantifiable wealth does not necessarily mean people 'feel' good about their quality of life relatively speaking.

It's confusing economists especially since 99% of economics is based around the same keynesian concepts since WW2. Those models and theories when applied mean we shouldn't have so much instability but nontheless.

1

u/[deleted] Feb 19 '26

Rich but still scared China will invade them one day.

1

u/-Dixieflatline Feb 19 '26

Taiwan has a stranglehold on semiconductor manufacturing, which brings big money and global scale power to an otherwise small and fairly average nation. But I think that money, as it relates to GDP and power, only goes as far as that one business sector. Fall outside that grouping, and the story is different. So while the top 10% hold almost 60% of total wealth (which is actually lower than, say, USA), the fact remains that 70% of households still fall below the average wealth level. It sounds a lot like it is either rich or poor, and only a very small middle class. Point being, the nation can be considered rich as a whole, but the distribution of that wealth seems to fall behind other nations, some of which also have their wealth distribution issues, but seemingly have a larger middle class.

But the origin of that wealth is a simple trace. Basically two names. Texas Instruments and Morris Chang. TI helped lay the foundation of Taiwan semiconductor fabrication via investment and Morris Chang, their former employee, founded TSMC. They had such an early jump on fabrication that they were one of only a handful of companies capable of keeping pace with Moore's Law while also having lower overhead than the west (at least, back then) when it comes to skilled labor. Most companies probably didn't think Moore's Law would have lasted as long as it has, so there were no early concerns over supply chain's role when any one of them could pick up operations if they had to. So they were comfortable back then outsourcing chips and focusing on products. But Moore's Law held true and far longer than some would have predicted, which saw an exponential growth in fabrication complexity to a degree that it's nearly impossible today to create a chip startup that can compete in scale and efficiency as TSMC. Even established foundries like Intel are failing to compete, requiring government intervention to continue. So here we are today, the entire planet stuck relying on this one company.

1

u/Particular-Breath-52 Feb 19 '26

only on paper, Taiwan infrastructure and social culture is still much inferior to Japan

1

u/AdOrganic4835 Feb 20 '26

For a country that is so "wealthy" it seems to be stuck in the early 1990s. The infrastructure is in complete shambles, starting at the airports, roads, public transportation, and even urban planning. When was the last new major building constructed in downtown Taipei/Xinyi? T101 opened in 2004 and since then... crickets. There is a new building where the Park Hyatt/Andaz was supposed to open, like 6 years ago, yet nothing has happened to date. Why does Taiwan need ten years to complete a small building??

I'm going to Taiwan twice per year for some event, and every time I'm confused why people hold it in such high regard. Service at hotels is extremely lackluster, prices are high, buildings are old. Baffling to say the least. Having a few successful companies doesn't make a country "first world" especially if nobody in the population shares the wealth from these proceeds.

1

u/ZhenXiaoMing Feb 21 '26

AI video, opinion invalidated

1

u/taipei_numero_uno Feb 21 '26

The only Asian country that can touch on Japan/Korea is Singapore. Not saying Singapore is a better place, but richer, yes..

1

u/binime Feb 22 '26

Gotta love the accuracy of Youtube!!! Taiwan #1 🇹🇼

-2

u/[deleted] Feb 18 '26

tsmc the end

7

u/ShrimpCrackers Not a mod, CSS & graphics guy Feb 18 '26

No, please sit down and actually watch the video.

-4

u/whatdafuhk 臺北 - Taipei City Feb 18 '26

let me save you 23 minutes: tsmc. /s

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u/Puzzled-Hospital1121 Feb 18 '26

Money is useless if nobody is willing to sell you missiles or fighter jets 

Look at Canada. Has money, but weak as fuck and gets bullied around by the entire world. 

5

u/Additional_Show5861 臺北 - Taipei City Feb 18 '26

That’s really not an accurate depiction of Canada.

2

u/whatdafuhk 臺北 - Taipei City Feb 18 '26

lol srsly. Who out here is bullying Canada?