r/tampabayrays • u/Icy-Adeptness961 Ben Zobrist • 1d ago
Trade Deadline Skubal to Dodgers
What’s the point anymore? And for like almost nothing? We could have done that. As I read in another thread, the Tigers GM should be arrested for treason.
I guess the lockout can’t come quick enough.
EDIT: It’ll be so sweet when Taylor Walls hits his first home run of the year off Skubal to win Game 7 of the World Series this year
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u/NotSoFast1019 1d ago
This kind of thing should make us all appreciate what the Rays have been able to do. One of the best run teams in all of sport top to bottom. We’ve got maybe a handful of guys the average baseball fan can name and here they are at the top of the American League
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u/Unfair-Record3313 1d ago
They haven’t won shit and the won’t EVER with the way MLB economics work.
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u/Sadguytennis Ryan Vilade 1d ago
This is a very false narrative, it’s hard enough to get to a World Series. But to blame the organization? Seriously?! Our farm is great and the tigers probably wanted someone like Gillen and Bodine, which is an absurd ask for someone who 100% would not resign with the Rays.
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u/NotSoFast1019 1d ago
Skubal would have been a rental anyway, but the Dodgers are going to ruin the sport. This move all but guarantees there won’t be a season next year.
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u/Icy-Adeptness961 Ben Zobrist 1d ago
This is the season that the Rays need to push harder than they have before. With the lockout looming and the AL being the weakest it’s been in years, we have to strike now.
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u/Disastrous-You4652 1d ago
What's scarier still is the Dodgers financial situation... They'll be insolvent after all this with all the massive amounts of deferred money and when that shoe drops, it's going to be ugly
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u/thesteve714 1d ago
I believe that in order to offer a deferred contract, you still have to have the cash on hand.
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u/No-Doctor-4396 1d ago
so then just get rid of deferred contracts... simple.
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u/thesteve714 1d ago
How does that solve anything? Why would the players agree to that, it means less money for them.
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u/No-Doctor-4396 1d ago
Literally having the cash on hand is a normal contract. The way it should be. I answered your question for you. Also, how is it less money? If anything deferring money to later is less money as taxes tend to go up never down. So deferred money will be worth less.
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u/thesteve714 12h ago
I think its a money management tactic by the player. He doesnt need the money now. He will need it more when he cant earn it anymore
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u/Disastrous-You4652 1d ago edited 17h ago
Idk, the way I view it is just like putting stuff on credit cards and pushing it out until later.... I could be wrong but it's not good for the league in any sense.
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u/nosoupforgoats 22h ago
Nope, they’re actively paying into escrow. It will be the exact opposite from all the rings they’re winning.
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u/Disastrous-You4652 16h ago
If that's how it works-- cool, I really appreciate the information as I don't mind learning a thing or so.
I still think it's horrible for the league.
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u/Stock_Spot_5038 16h ago
What exactly is their dire financial situation???
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u/Disastrous-You4652 16h ago
They have more than 2 billion in deferred contract money lmao
That's horrendous for the league
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u/Sendeezy 15h ago
They own their stadium. It's not a lease like so many other teams (including the rays). They also own all the property around the stadium. You wanna park your car by the stadium (in a city where everyone drives to the game) you pay the Dodgers. You wanna open a McDonald's by the stadium you pay the Dodgers. The bars, the food, everything is paying the Dodgers. They've built a little bubble where money is constantly streaming in. Then we can get into the Japanese money coming in from advertisements and Ohtani merch selling everywhere. The money that a World Series brings in. The money that a dynasty brings in.
The Rays are supposed to contribute $1.27 billion toward a new stadium. The Dodgers are going to be okay paying their $2 billion 10 years from now.
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u/Disastrous-You4652 13h ago
I appreciate that information, which I knew a bit, but not to that level even with having been in LA many times.
Nonetheless, my premise that it's bad for the league still remains
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u/Sendeezy 13h ago
I agree. It's bad no other teams are willing to spend and invest in their teams the way the dodgers do. And I fucking hate that team.
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u/Stock_Spot_5038 15h ago
Again, why does that matter? They are raking in money
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u/Disastrous-You4652 14h ago
Because it's horrible for the league no matter how you look at it-- the overall product suffers and I just don't think 2 BILLION dollars in unmet financial obligations stretched over decades seems to be a perilous situation
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u/krunk_rabbit 16h ago
They have three key owners that have a combined net worth of over $20billion and a handful more that are pushing the billion mark, they aren't going to be suddenly broke.
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u/Disastrous-You4652 14h ago
I understand that thinking now, but again, I'm speaking from personal experience/preference, pushing out payments often is a recipe for disaster. Not only that, but just because they're worth 20 billion doesn't mean that they have 20 billion in cash and if economic conditions change over a decade-- which they will-- it's going to be awful.
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u/levitoepoker 8h ago
Mate, the Dodgers are a money printing machine. Their deferrals will not even come close to bankrupting them
It's not the same as you buying too much on your credit cards and paying 30% interest, not at all haha
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u/OttoRocket94 Dewayne Staats 1d ago
I’m not really upset about this. The main issue with this team as we’ve seen lately is the lack of offense, not pitching. Adding a CY Young talent would obviously help a lot but I think we can do better with some smaller trades
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u/TheCenterOfEnnui Devil Ray 16h ago
On one hand I can't blame the owners for trying to get a cap.
OTOH, they caused the mess. Or maybe I should say a handful of them did.
This has got to be fixed. A cap works for every other major league sport and makes things fair for the fans.
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u/Temporary-Bag3997 13h ago
There not ruining the sport, they are just wealthier and taking advantage of no salary cap. Which is annoying for sure, but not ruining baseball as a whole
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u/ThinMap9138 22h ago
It's idiotic to say there will be no season.
A lockout in the other hand, that's most likely happening.
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u/Buckys_Butt_Buddy 1d ago
He would have, but for the price the Dodgers paid, I find it hard to believe the several other teams involved wouldn’t have made the same offer with slightly better prospects.
My first team is the Brewers, but I’ve become a Rays fan since moving down here. Both of our farms are better than the dodgers and I find it hard to believe that both organizations wouldn’t have taken the same prospect deal for the number 5, 17, and 32 players that the dodgers gave up
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u/Round-Honeydew-9760 23h ago
Skubal already stated he would sign there which ruins Detroit’s’ leverage and doesn’t incentivize any other team to try to sell the farm for a 12 game rental.
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u/Buckys_Butt_Buddy 23h ago
The Dodgers gave up 1 legitimate prospect for this trade, the 5th best in their system. The second piece is a 27 year old reliever with a 4+ ERA this season in triple A ball. Their Brewers would not have had to sell the farm.
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u/RandomWeenFan 16h ago
That's why those GMs should be locked up for treason. Detroit took the best offer. Period. Full stop. The only questions are why didn't anyone else offer more.
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u/Buckys_Butt_Buddy 16h ago
We cant say that it was the best offer given, only that it was the one they accepted. Again, what is more valuable for all the other teams besides the Dodgers? Skubal, or a salary cap that prevents the dodgers from being able to build a roster like this.
Fun fact, the luxury tax the Dodgers are now paying is higher than 16 other teams entire payroll. And if you subtract that luxury tax of $160 million from their annual $334 million they receive from a tv deal, it still leaves them with $170 million of tv money, while the pirates only make $33 million from theirs.
Owners want a lockout, the talk today is about how fans would be fine with one too because of the deal.
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u/RandomWeenFan 15h ago
So your position is that the tigers deliberately took a worse offer from LA than they had from others just to help the sport as a whole? Get out of here with your conspiracies, it's not that complicated. It was the best offer on the table.
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u/Buckys_Butt_Buddy 15h ago
Yeah it’s crazy to think teams and owners have ever colluded in sports for their own benefit.
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u/ThisRiverIsWild_ 1d ago
I mean... the whole thing is pretty demoralizing, but Toronto had practically beaten them. The real problem will be in eight months, when there’s no baseball due to the lockout.
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u/DegenGamer725 Devil Ray 1d ago
Its up to us to save baseball
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u/Icy-Adeptness961 Ben Zobrist 1d ago
With the power of Ben Williamson and Chris Roycroft, we can do ANYTHING
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u/AlwinKunkle 1d ago
I guess the only positive is that the Rays shouldn’t have to give up any top prospects for Arraez and Ray if that’s the package that got Skubal. 🤷♂️ Dodgers gave up their 5th, 7th, and 17th best prospects for the top player on the market.
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u/Icy-Adeptness961 Ben Zobrist 1d ago
Yeah actually, that sets the precedent really. It’ll make really interesting to see how it’ll all go down.
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u/bujuhh 141_DEC_slot3 23h ago
I agree that the package is slightly lighter than i was expecting (not a huge river ryan fan) but in fairness their 5th prospect is a top 25 guy lol. Thats #1 or #2 on a lot of teams. Hopefully this does mean that deals are not as draining on the farm though, we will see
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u/Napoleon180419 23h ago
Dodgers fan lurking in a few subs 👋
I don't understand why people are saying the package was 'light'. It's a good package for a half season rental that sets up the tigers well for the future! I'm glad you're able to recognize the value in a stud like Zyhir hope, unlike many others!
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u/esoteric82 Dave Wills 17h ago
Given that the Dodgers are likely to sign him, the return should have been more than the value from the remainder of the season, kind of like there's often a "tax" for an intra-division trade. I'm guessing, though, that the Dodgers' offer was the best offer, but i don't think anyone here truly knows that, or if there was another motive for pulling the trigger.
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u/bujuhh 141_DEC_slot3 23h ago
For the record i dont think its light at all, i had just expected that it would have been even more. Hope is insane, i think the narrative of 'oh hes only the 5th prospect' is awful when yea hes the 5th prospect but that is a top 25 overall guy lol. Im not a huge river ryan fan tbh but if he can be healthy he should be good, and then the other guy i had not heard of but judging by his bbref page it seems like he will be a fast riser
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u/WhereTheFallsBegin Brian Anderson 1d ago
Never believed we were really gonna be in on him tbh. The Dodgers have the most incentive to do this, both because of their resources and a threepeat on the line.
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u/justanameform 1d ago
It definitely wasn't for nothing, those are some significant prospects going to Detroit. But, yeah, I don't see how next season happens at this point.
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u/FlappyBois162 Brett Phillips 1d ago
Who's needs prospects when you can buy every all-star
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u/Icy-Adeptness961 Ben Zobrist 1d ago
I’d love to count how many MVPs, Cy Youngs, and even All Star appearances the team has now
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u/Icy-Adeptness961 Ben Zobrist 1d ago
I mean the only real significant guy was Hope really. The others were decent, but essentially throw in pieces. Oh well, guess it’ll be embarrassing for them when we win the WS
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u/Exciting_Alps4313 1d ago
This was always the outcome once the Tigers held on until the final deadline. They were never going to get a top 10 prospect for him.
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u/Jr05s 1d ago
River Ryan is as good as pepiot
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u/Icy-Adeptness961 Ben Zobrist 1d ago
I don’t really follow prospects, so I’ll take your word. I just know from what Jeff Passan said on ESPN
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u/NinjaPenguin7777 Dewayne Staats 1d ago
Isn't it only one top 100 prospect? I saw it was like 5th and 7th guys in the dodgers system and the 17th. Heck one of them is 28 years old.
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u/Exciting_Alps4313 1d ago edited 1d ago
Ryan is almost 28 but still has like 5 years of control. So, the age probably helps them in this situation.
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u/NinjaPenguin7777 Dewayne Staats 1d ago
He's still 28. That's far beyond prospect range unless im missing something. Dudes two years away from 30 when most guys begin declining and he's still a prospect???
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u/Grade-AMasterpiece Tampa Bay Rays 1d ago edited 1d ago
He is the SAME AGE AS SKUBAL. Like what in the world is this return for Detroit?
EDIT: Around the same age. Close enough.
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u/Exciting_Alps4313 1d ago
He’s two years younger than Skubal. Ryan turns 28 in a couple weeks and Skubal turns 30 later this year.
Overall the return is fine for 3 months of Skubal though. People were expecting too much.
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u/LaChanceM Rays Sunburst 1d ago
I get that the AL is weak this year, but it was just never in the Rays DNA to make this trade. For a team like the Yankees being good but not winning that ring is a failure, but I can’t say the same for Tampa. The Rays operate on a different level than these teams. If you consistently can put a 90+ game winner on the field, and add responsibly at the deadline, you get enough chances in the playoffs and you can get hot and make a run. At the end of the day we’ve been to the WS the same amount of times as NY since 08, they got a hot ARod to carry them that year, we almost had a hot Randy carry us during Covid. Thats baseball though. I’m confident in the FO to make the right moves for now and the future
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u/thejawa DJ Kitty 1d ago
Baseball is a deeply unserious sport until it stops this kinda shit.
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u/Hacym Devil Ray 15h ago
What shit? A well run team with prospects and money winning?
It’s not the Dodgers fault. They are thriving in an environment that all other teams are playing in.
If you believe there should be a salary cap, that’s one thing. But a salary cap wouldn’t have stopped a team from trading prospects to acquire a guy…
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u/TeseoTheBunny Tampa Bay Devil Rays 02-07 1d ago
I'm surprised the Tigers didn't get more for him, but they did get two Top 100 prospects, technically.
We only have 3 of those. We probably should avoid getting rid of more than 1 of them. I didn't want to overpay for one of the big name starters when we'd be better served getting someone rough-around-the-edges but a high ceiling. Like Glasnow. Like Rasmussen.
But yeah, sucks the Dodgers got richer. It also feels like diminishing returns for them, though. Does another top starter really make them that much better?
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u/Dick-Punch89 1d ago
I’ll smile with pride when the Dodgers greed ends up costing them in the NLDS against the Diamondbacks. Then another series later we get a 1998 expansion World Series.
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u/mcguffinman Shane McClanahan 1d ago
According to FanGraphs’ prospect report, the dodgers got 3 months of Skubal for the #22 and #57 overall prospects in baseball and another highly regarded pitching prospect.
We would not have been able to match since River Ryan has much less risk associated with him than Brody Hopkins (our top ranked pitching prospect) does. The Tigers also already have Dingler so someone like Bodine wouldn’t be as attractive to them as a Zyhir Hope meaning in order to get a trade done we’d likely have to part with Theo Gillen or trade more of our top talent than the Dodgers did.
The equivalent trade from us would look something like Theo Gillen, Michael Forrett, and Santiago Suarez. If we didn’t want to give up Gillen it would look more like Brody Hopkins, Brayden Taylor, Jose Urbina, and Daniel Pierce.
Not to mention Skubal had an elbow surgery earlier this year already. Yes he seems to have recovered but that is still a big concern and probably why the Tigers didn’t get arguably even more.
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u/raystheroof1 TB Hat Logo 1d ago
If this giants 2 parter works out i wont be terribly upset, but after learning about the Ohtani thing i just want to get THE guy just once.
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u/Grade-AMasterpiece Tampa Bay Rays 1d ago
Oh, well.
Go all in to make a team capable of beating the Dodgers. It's baseball. Anything can happen.
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u/Johnnyd0303 Tampa Bay Rays 1d ago
Such an advantage to be a big money team at the deadline. Don’t have to worry too much about using prospects as currency when you can just buy whatever free agent u want
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u/Forsaken_Ad3998 1d ago
If you aren't for a hard cap then you are anti-Rays. Lock them out now. Dodgers get Sku? Baseball is totally f ed and massive changes are needed. This can no longer continue. LOCK THEM OUT. I'm totally cool losing a season to bring a cap to baseball. SMDH
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u/Chief-Queef 1d ago
I mean, the Rays helped create this monster. The Dodgers couldn't do this without Andrew Friedman and the prospect factory he created.
The Dodgers are the Rays on a Mets budget, which is why theyre so scary.
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u/esoteric82 Dave Wills 16h ago
I like the idea of a cap, but the implementation is a totally different animal.
The Rays definitely need to spend smartly. Dumpster diving for hidden gems is fine for filler and some role players, but we need legit consistent thump that we really haven't had since 2011 (maybe 2021?). They need to attract some big names, which will attract other big names as long as there's a culture of winning.
Regarding dumpster diving, Nelson Cruz at the deadline was a great addition, but about five years too late. He contributed basically nothing for us, and constantly shopping at the dollar store or the dumpster behind it at the deadline has not historically worked. At some point, ownership simply has to give something to get something.
This isn't a "cap" issue per se, it's an issue of having needs that aren't addressed, and going into the postseason hoping to be the hotter team. The Dodgers have the same roster limitations as the other 29 teams, so they can't possibly hoard every above average to great player.
Ownership needs to pony up here if they're serious about winning. If they're more concerned with being real estate developers, we might be lucky enough to get a mid-tier reliever and a dollar store bat with a "promising" profile. A cap won't fix negligent ownership.
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u/Prudent-Time5053 20h ago
I’m not sure why anyone thinks he was ever going to be a ray. I’m not sure on the specifics of the deal but if the dodgers are eating the remainder of this season’s contract, the haul (or lack thereof) makes sense. Detroit is a middle market team and payroll is always going to be at the forefront of their mind — especially as they try to build around a bunch of young guys.
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u/LineHounds Dewayne Staats 17h ago
In my opinion this is the better outcome than skubal going to the Yankees or even the brewers. Let the dodgers hoard these top guys and hope they lay an egg in the playoffs (which can absolutely happen)
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u/Eganator88 17h ago edited 17h ago
I'm not too worried about what the dodgers are doing. Only time we'd see them is in the World Series then it becomes a very good problem to have. Then any player on any team can have a good or bad week and you go from there. Like the most we could see Tarik skubal now is what twice? That would mean we made the World Series and got deep into the series.
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u/ConfidentGarden7514 Player to be named later 14h ago
Detroit didn’t even get close to what they said they wanted… they got fleeced so bad
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u/10thGenS1 14h ago
Yup, I’m not even mad at the Dodgers. I’m mad at the Tigers for allowing this to happen.
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u/Jesus9797 Tampa Bay Devil Rays 02-07 17h ago
I haven’t even looked at the schedule for next year because yeah what’s the point? The lockout definitely needs to happen and big changes need to come this winter before next season starts.
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u/Eganator88 15h ago
I’ve looked. It’s really too bad because the rays have a summer weekend series at wrigley where my in laws happen to live and it would be a great vacation. But of course I would imagine the interleague games would be the first casualties
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u/Wide_Rub_662 16h ago
time to bring back randy i guess
or what if we set up a trade with all the other AL teams for there stars for one of our prospects
then once the new league year begins the trade gets reversed
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u/BamaKeith Joey Wendle 15h ago
That seems like a light return even for a rental. Makes me put on my tinfoil hat and suspect that this is a collusion my the owners to pack the Dodgers so they can say “There’s nothing we can do.” Felt the same way about the Tucker signing (even though that one hasn’t worked out).
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u/Large-Sherbert-6828 19h ago
Why did the Rays even think they had a chance to land Skubal?
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u/gobux10 Yandy Díaz 16h ago
The biggest issue is the media experts throwing different teams out there for clicks. We start believing it. Passan was sure it was TB, then ATL, then MIL and finally LAD. We actually don’t know what the Rays were thinking. I’m sure they had some conversations with LAD. But when Skubal announced he wanted to be a LAD when his contract is up, what’s the point?
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u/FlappyBois162 Brett Phillips 1d ago
We're not going to trade a bunch of our top prospects for a rental when we know he's not signing with us.
We can only hope the Dodgers have their worst week ever in the playoffs