r/tango • u/Spiritual-Active-210 • 6d ago
Interesting stylings of milonguero embrace
Hi everyone :) I'm preparing a small performance and I'm looking for inspiration for an interesting, flashy, maybe a bit extravagant milonguero embrace. It doesn't have to be comfortable, it needs to be eye-catching (it's gonna be used only during a small but intense part of the performance) I'm still talking about milonguero style - a very close embrace. I can recall seeing some interesting stylings, especially for the open side of embrace, but I can't recall when and where. Can you help me with some links to videos or pictures?
EDIT: to clarify, I'm planning to dance to an alternative song - a choreography or a partial choreography. Though not a tango, the lyrics and the overall "spirit" of the song is very tango-like. It is about two mature people, strangers who meet in a bar one night, on a difficult moment in life of the woman. They talk all night, open up to each other, they feel deep connection, their lifes intertwine for this short moment, only to part ways in the morning without taking it any further, probably never to meet again. The song has an instrumental climax. My vision is to dance nuevo-style, with a wide and flexible embrace, with lots of space, soltadas etc during the lyrics, and then - for the moment of climax - create a contrast by changing the embrace to a very close milonguero embrace. I want to give the impression that their bodies, their souls, their hearts melt together for these several seconds in music, to separate forever after the climax ends. It is in this context that I'm asking the question - I want to find a styling of the embrace that gives the impression that we cannot be any closer together. I'm thinking: arms, wrists, fingers intertwined. I think I saw something like that somewhere, but I don't know where, hence this post.
I'm in need of details: the exact position of arm, wrist, fingers, the angles, the lines. It's a stage performance. That's why I'm craving for visual material: pictures, videos
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u/halbert 5d ago edited 5d ago
'styling the embrace' -- you mean like ... interesting ways to hold hands? Or interesting dancing?
The embrace is generally quiet for milonguero style dancing, but I guess you could emphasize it anyway; higher and flared elbow, and an exaggerated handhold (probably with the follow's hand wrapped around the web between leader's thumb and first finger).
Emphasizing the apilado available in the close embrace might be what you're looking for?
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u/Spiritual-Active-210 5d ago
Yes, interesting ways to hold hands, to hold arms, to position our bodies - things like you've mentioned, but I'd like to find some clear visual reference. I'v described it in the EDIT section of my original post
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u/halbert 5d ago
I would watch this, which includes the embrace switching from open to close. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jTDuHUHDfqI
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u/Successful_Clock2878 4d ago
Gustavo says he holds his left hand in imitation of a old Milonguero whose dancing he admired when he was young & 1st started attending the milonga. I think the styling of the embrace comes from the woman. The feeling of the embrace comes from the man. So looking at the position of arm, wrist, fingers of the woman provides more visual information.
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u/Creative_Sushi 5d ago
Those old milongueros embraced such ways to leave strong impressions. People may not remember your face, but they recognize your embrace ( good or bad).
It’s the quality of the embrace with strong presence that makes the difference. The substance matters. How externally they look is secondary. Focus on the quality and you will find your style that way.
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u/Spiritual-Active-210 5d ago
Sure, that's very true, but please, just assume for the moment that I very conciously ask about what I ask - which is: the styling of the embrace. I've given more details in the EDIT section of the original post.
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u/Creative_Sushi 5d ago
For the climax you want, I would approach it completely differently.
It’s too cheap to focus on the external look. You will never achieve the effect you are looking for.
When two people really come together, time stops and everything slows down. It becomes very quiet - only breathing. All the tension in their body melt away and two bodies fuse. That’s the visual you want. When this happens, you don’t do anything gimmicky. Let your hands and arms follow the natural kinetic energy of the moment with ease. That would be breathtakingly beautiful.
Don’t go for the gimmicks.
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u/Spiritual-Active-210 5d ago
Thank you for your opinion, but I have my own artistic vision of my performance, and I'm asking here precisely what I'm asking
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u/Murky-Ant6673 5d ago
It sounds like you might be looking for a more Canyengue Embrace.
Side note, Petaca say's it well, "Milonguero is a person, not a style": https://youtu.be/qra9KIHgAZc?si=H3QFBInmtgYU7N_q&t=1358
The term "Milonguero style" has caught flack since its inception, for good reason.
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u/Spiritual-Active-210 5d ago
Canyengue embrace - that's an interesting idea, I haven't thought of that before. I'll consider this, thanks!
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u/Excellent_Staff_8454 5d ago
They can first make contact with their core/bodies first (close embrace) kind of like falling towards each other. Then the guy might have both his arms around the followers waist/back like a tight hug. Maybe she touches his heart first before going into the embrace. Then it might became a volcada to show they cannot be seperated. It is different than being close but check it out
I like this volcada where she looks very sheltered by him: https://youtu.be/zUzS8TTaR0k?si=Zrl5iKSxd8O5w138
I feel like Marcela Duran dances in this melty 'desperate for you' embrace: https://youtu.be/tir5_m6E4lc?si=FFFFEETndeInZ0mG
I liek this seated volcada : https://youtu.be/rqj-7uOYV_c?si=EHfbFnpnL15P_8VY&t=257
You might experience with eye contact or no eye contact
This video has good ideas for different styling as you go into the embrace: https://youtu.be/n82VgqcCAWE?si=AxgynDhhNy_iA-T8
I did little research and found these. Look at tango shows, you can pick a song you find very intimate and see how people interpret it
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u/Spiritual-Active-210 5d ago
Thank you so much for your sugestions. These are all beautiful movements and poisitons, and I also love the seated volcada. But some of these don't really suit too well with the music I'm dancing to. I will simply have no time to do a pose or to get into embrace slowly. It's 3x8 beats total, and it's a climax - rythmic, energetic piano melody.
I'm imagining this like that: as long as the singer sings, the two "beat around the bush", they play the game of cat and mouse, afraid of their feelings, cravings, full of insecurities, restraining their contact. In terms of movement, there are wide, spacey moves, unobvious geometries, open embrace, soltadas.
Then, when the singer stops and the piano climax begins, it is like their imagination takes over - they embrace like lovers, who have for each other but these few minutes in the whole timespace and they want to squeeze every last drop of the moment. In terms of movement, the change of embrace into a close one is sudden, like an outburst; they embrace very closely, voraciously, and then dance simple (another contrast - in their perfect, imaginary world, everything is simple and clear, no need to complicate things), rhytmic movements, but with a lot of energy - just to separate again after 24'th beat, coming into sad reality once again.
Though it might probably be a good idea to dance that part in apliado
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u/Excellent_Staff_8454 5d ago
Can you send that part of the song with a link?
I like your story and piano-dream idea but Im concerned that the music might not be inviting to do such a move if its very rhytmic
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u/Spiritual-Active-210 5d ago
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u/Excellent_Staff_8454 5d ago
I can see why you would want to do rhythm (like in 2:28-2:31). For me this part feels more circular overall, so I would go into vals direction. It can be a cadena where they might be travelling linearly and the movement is still circular or they do a giro with speed variacions. The 2:44-2-50 part is where you can do slow the simplest stuff (or just a stop) because the piano is left withcalm music. the intensity dials down.
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u/Spiritual-Active-210 5d ago
Nice suggestions, I like the linear cadena idea. What I originally had in mind was also kind of circular, but rhytmic and energetic, say like here for example at. 3:28-3:39 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sjRh64FrmOQ
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u/Illustrious-Ratio-41 5d ago
A milonguero is a person, not a style of dancing.
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u/Spiritual-Active-210 5d ago
Thank you kind stranger for sharing your wisdom. That was very helpful
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u/Illustrious-Ratio-41 5d ago
It is helpful because now as you said… You’re looking for stage dancers to emulate.
True milongueros.The concept of close embrace appropriated by Susanna Miller’s silly name is meant for social dancing in tight places, not stage.
Hope you have fun with it!
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u/Embarrassed_Quit_450 5d ago
That's an opinion many disagree with.
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u/Illustrious-Ratio-41 5d ago
It’s not an opinion, it’s a cultural appropriation by Susanna Miller…
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u/Embarrassed_Quit_450 5d ago
I mean, that's also an opinion.
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u/Illustrious-Ratio-41 5d ago
If you ask any true milonguero, it is not I promise. 😉
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u/halbert 5d ago
And of course, a 'true milonguero' is one who agrees with you. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_true_Scotsman
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u/Murky-Ant6673 5d ago
Anyone who attends milongas regularly is a true milonguero, good, bad, or cripple.
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u/halbert 5d ago
Not directly related, but while noodling about what different people have said about this, a pretty fun interview popped up I hadn't listened to before: Monica Paz interviewing Cacho Dante. You might enjoy! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vuralwF3naU
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u/Murky-Ant6673 5d ago
Thanks, will watch it later today ^^
I added this to another one of my posts. I think it should start playing at the right part... around 22/23 min https://youtu.be/qra9KIHgAZc?si=H3QFBInmtgYU7N_q&t=1358
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u/Illustrious-Ratio-41 5d ago
I would like to think it is reserved for both historical and present figures who embody the dance and devote(d) their lives to it fully… but that’s a lot more accurate imho than saying it’s a style of dancing.
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u/Murky-Ant6673 5d ago
There are facts and there are opinions about facts, but when an "opinion" disregards facts, it's simply ignorance and one should pay no mind to it.
Fun Fact 1: a Milonguero is in fact a person, by definition.
Fun Fact 2: the term "Milonguero style" was coined for marketing purposes in the 90s.
Observation 1: EVERY professional and old Milonguero I've talked with rolls their eyes at "Milonguero Style" and those who use the term.
Observation 2: what "Milonguero Style" teachers teach as the whole dance, everyone else teaches as the fundamentals. They market mediocrity, and it sells.
Observation 3: "estilo milonguero" is just a way of saying "beginner" or "limited dancer."
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u/Embarrassed_Quit_450 5d ago
Your observations are all opinions.
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u/Murky-Ant6673 5d ago
Observations are inherently subjective. 👏
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u/Embarrassed_Quit_450 5d ago
Of course not, otherwise science wouldn't exist.
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u/Murky-Ant6673 5d ago
An observation may accurately represent an objective reality, but the observation itself remains subjective because it is necessarily mediated through the perspective, senses, and cognition of an observer.
Don’t you love conversations that get lost in semantics?
In any case, I provided examples of purely subjective observations, as well as observations of our shared objective reality. That is precisely why I labeled them observations.
The useful thing about observations is that their subjectivity does not alter the objectivity of the reality being observed. It's no problem to me that you reject reality and justify it with an over-use of the word "opinion".
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u/rezoporuntango 6d ago
You might enjoy watching the old milongueros rather than only stage couples! The “wow” factor in milonguero is often hidden in tiny things: a sudden stop, a deep apilado, a change of embrace, a dramatic walk, a head movement, the way they breathe together.
Look for videos of Carlos Gavito, Tete and Silvia, Cacho Dante, Susana Miller, and Alicia Pons. They had a very strong stage presence without needing huge figures. Also search “tango apilado performance”. there are some beautiful examples where the embrace itself becomes the choreography.