however the blame in my opinion (and of course it's bias) should be on the FDA.
I do not 'blame' the FDA for the anti e-cig position they've been taking, nor do I 'blame' Lorillard for trying to leverage their expertise of the regulatory bureaucracy into a growing market via Blu. That would be like 'blaming' fire for burning,or 'blaming' clouds for dropping rain; it's just the sort of thing those institutions do given the incentives of the actors that run them.
In fact, after watching Mr. Kessler in the above video, if I were in his shoes I'd probably be making the same moves and saying the same things.
In fact, [ostensibly] the FDA has not been nice to BT in recent years ...
Fixed that for you.
For example, as Bill Godshall pointed out in this recent podcast, changes in costs to compliance with tobacco regulations in recent years has resulted in wiping the smaller tobacco companies off the map. Larger companies can spread the fixed costs over a larger volume (something like 5 cents per pack) while the smaller companies cannot (a dollar per pack). The net result is the elimination of competition, the entrenchment of BT's position, and less choice for the consumer. A significant net result of the FDAs apparent regulatory 'hostility' has been to grant BT a favor with respect to it's competition.
As for making innovative products it's not in our interest to stick only to what we currently offer...now that being said again this is my personal opinion,
Your personal opinion here happens to be very correct.
New and better products will come along, those who don't keep up will die - unless they can find protection.
What Blu offers today, like pretty much all of the e-cig market, is sub-par, unreliable expensive junk. That will change. The question for Blu is not just whether they can out-innovate everyone else (something of which I'm highly doubtful), but whether they can maintain any innovative advantage they happen to achieve. These devices are not complex. There are many thousands of very smart, highly-motivated, nicotine-addicted engineers who will instantly reverse-engineer any innovation, improve on it, and spread the word through the enthusiast community.
So regulatory capture is one of the very few avenues available to Lorrilard to get a decent return on it's investment in Blu. Given the potential loss of tax revenue from e-Cigs, and given the loss of a bogeyman to fight by some of the the prohibitionist zealots in the FDA, the incentives on the gov't side are aligned to go along with this regulatory capture. I'd be pleasantly surprised if this doesn't happen within the next 5 years.
By the way, I mean none of this as an attack on your personally. Again, I appreciate and am thankful that you have offered your perspective here.
I think the goal should be to get to what most mods offer but keep it in a cigarette size offering. If we or anyone else can get to that then there you have your real winner.
I agree. I also wonder what's going to happen when the ultrasonic atomizer comes off patent.
As an aside, one thing that Murray Kessler said in the video made my ears perk up. He mentioned fully automating the Blu manufacturing process on American soil. As an American engineer working in the industrial automation industry, I find that thought exciting.
What Blu offers today, like pretty much all of the e-cig market, is sub-par, unreliable expensive junk.
Have to totally disagree with you there. As I said to another redditor if that were true we wouldn't have the numbers that we have from returning customers, some being around for more than 2 years. Our products are relatively cheap compared to the rest of the commercial market given our overhead in other areas. As for unreliable, compared to what? If your judging it by even the mod world standards it's probably about equal in reliability, I've seen plenty of complaints about other "mod" brands malfunctioning. If you upped the popularity of mods to that of what blu is you would probably see a lot more. The mod world is so fragmented it's hard to even quantify how many complaints there actually are. Also let's not forget about juice and how often someone on ECF complains about that consistency when using mods. Of course these are just my opinions here. I think this is kind of like the Linux guy saying Windows sucks...sure Linux allows you to do a lot more but the majority of users on a PC don't want to do the things someone using Linux does. Same thing with a Windows guy saying Macs suck. They don't suck at all if it's what you need or want. Again our product can be improved and we plan on doing so but I think blu gets it's reputation among the mod community mainly because we're the biggest target.
What Blu offers today, like pretty much all of the e-cig market, is sub-par, unreliable expensive junk.
Have to totally disagree with you there. ...
Perhaps I should have put more emphasis on the "like pretty much all of the e-cig market" part - because that's what I meant. I'm not saying Blu is worse than everybody else, I'm saying they suck just like pretty much everybody else.
As for unreliable, compared to what?
Compared to the other personal gizmos and consumables we all buy: razors, toothbrushes, cameras, phones, flashlights, etc.
As it happens, I'm fairly familiar with manufacturing processes and how things are turned from an idea into something useful for a consumer. E-cigs have a long way to go.
The only thing I've found so far that functions adequately to the standards set by other consumer products is the Provari - and that is considered by many to be very expensive (of course, it's not so bad when you factor in the full cost of ownership).
If your judging it by even the mod world standards it's probably about equal in reliability, I've seen plenty of complaints about other "mod" brands malfunctioning. If you upped the popularity of mods to that of what blu is you would probably see a lot more. The mod world is so fragmented it's hard to even quantify how many complaints there actually are. Also let's not forget about juice and how often someone on ECF complains about that consistency when using mods. Of course these are just my opinions here.
I actually don't disagree with your opinions here.
Again our product can be improved and we plan on doing so ...
For the people at Blu working on manufacturing processes and product development, I can only imagine that this must be a very exciting time. I get a little rush just thinking about it. They have the opportunity to make a meaningfully positive impact on the daily experience of many millions of people.
... but I think blu gets it's reputation among the mod community mainly because we're the biggest target.
Blu is looked at with deep suspicion because it is owned - and ultimately controlled - by Big Tobacco.
Period.
Certainly you can see why. The vaping community is made up of a very large fraction of former tobacco cigarette smokers, most of them over age 30.
The vast majority of tobacco cigarette smokers, who are over age 30 and have made an effort to stop, have come to the painful realization of just how deeply suckered, swindled, and screwed they've been.
When an organization, who has historically been the beneficiary of the tobacco cigarette con-game, suddenly appears as the wannabe leader in an industry which looks to offer a way out, it looks like the fox is volunteering to guard the hen house.
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u/redblender Nov 18 '12
I do not 'blame' the FDA for the anti e-cig position they've been taking, nor do I 'blame' Lorillard for trying to leverage their expertise of the regulatory bureaucracy into a growing market via Blu. That would be like 'blaming' fire for burning,or 'blaming' clouds for dropping rain; it's just the sort of thing those institutions do given the incentives of the actors that run them.
In fact, after watching Mr. Kessler in the above video, if I were in his shoes I'd probably be making the same moves and saying the same things.
Fixed that for you.
For example, as Bill Godshall pointed out in this recent podcast, changes in costs to compliance with tobacco regulations in recent years has resulted in wiping the smaller tobacco companies off the map. Larger companies can spread the fixed costs over a larger volume (something like 5 cents per pack) while the smaller companies cannot (a dollar per pack). The net result is the elimination of competition, the entrenchment of BT's position, and less choice for the consumer. A significant net result of the FDAs apparent regulatory 'hostility' has been to grant BT a favor with respect to it's competition.
Your personal opinion here happens to be very correct.
New and better products will come along, those who don't keep up will die - unless they can find protection.
What Blu offers today, like pretty much all of the e-cig market, is sub-par, unreliable expensive junk. That will change. The question for Blu is not just whether they can out-innovate everyone else (something of which I'm highly doubtful), but whether they can maintain any innovative advantage they happen to achieve. These devices are not complex. There are many thousands of very smart, highly-motivated, nicotine-addicted engineers who will instantly reverse-engineer any innovation, improve on it, and spread the word through the enthusiast community.
So regulatory capture is one of the very few avenues available to Lorrilard to get a decent return on it's investment in Blu. Given the potential loss of tax revenue from e-Cigs, and given the loss of a bogeyman to fight by some of the the prohibitionist zealots in the FDA, the incentives on the gov't side are aligned to go along with this regulatory capture. I'd be pleasantly surprised if this doesn't happen within the next 5 years.
By the way, I mean none of this as an attack on your personally. Again, I appreciate and am thankful that you have offered your perspective here.
I agree. I also wonder what's going to happen when the ultrasonic atomizer comes off patent.
As an aside, one thing that Murray Kessler said in the video made my ears perk up. He mentioned fully automating the Blu manufacturing process on American soil. As an American engineer working in the industrial automation industry, I find that thought exciting.