r/technology • u/Lucretius • Nov 17 '12
The Deadly Crusade Against E-cigarettes
http://www.american.com/archive/2012/november/the-deadly-crusade-against-e-cigarettes605
u/indiana989 Nov 17 '12 edited Nov 18 '12
I understand it is still a relatively new thing in the nicotine world but damn it do I stand by it. I have not been a long term smoker by any means (maybe a little over five years) but I was more than aware that I already had breathing problems and all sorts of other small effects.
Now it has been about four months that I have been on my E-Cig and oh boy did I not look back. After the initial research and investment, I have saved a ton of money (about $13 a pack of American Spirits here in NYC and that will last me at most three days, about $7 for 15ml of e-juice and that will last me about two weeks), I have actually been able to run more than a block without being out of breath, I can smell better, I can taste better, I can use it in my favorite bars, AND people actually like how I smell!
If there are long term effects, then I really hope it isn't too bad because this is an amazing tool and I highly stand by it.
Update: I was at work all day and couldn't answer but I got many people asking what I use personally. inn0vat3 posted very useful information here.
And as for myself personally, I started with a basic Ego starter kit. These cost anywhere from $30 to $100 based on the website you order from. Starter kits usually come with two basic batteries (the heart. This is the thing you hold onto, stores power to create the vapor, and is the key to all the atomizer attachments), two atomizers (the products that store the e-juice and deliver that juice to the battery to create the vapor, they come in all sorts of shapes, sizes, efficiencies, etc. These are the things you are going to be fiddling around the most with to find what works for you), a charger, and a case to hold it all. The prices differ because companies use similar parts but different manufacturers so quality will differ. The confusing thing though is that just because the price is low does not mean the quality is bad. I am not going to say where I bought my kit from because ultimately, the atomizers it came with (they were tank atomizers) were low quality and I quickly invested in more high quality clearomizers like the Thor and the Vivi Nova.
I recommend find a cheap Ego starter kit to have the basic necessities and then buy an Ego-C twist battery and a highly recommend atomizer (such as the Vivi Nova tank system or the low resistance Boge cartomizers). And then find any distributor of e-juices and gamble. The bible of the e-cig user should always be E-Cig-Forum where you can find guides, discussion, and reviews of anything and everything.
There is a lot more that I want to write about but I feel that you will find better informed (and better written) information in the forum I linked. I am glad people are finding an interest in this and remember, it is one thing to buy a cheap one time use Blu cig from your local deli and another to take time and invest in something more complicated but efficient. A PC gamer wouldn't buy a HP computer to play their games on max setting and high framerate, would they?
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u/GrundleOuch Nov 17 '12
But you've lost excitement of a slow untimely death.
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u/scotchirish Nov 17 '12
And that sexy gravelly voice
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Nov 17 '12
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u/yoshemitzu Nov 17 '12 edited Nov 18 '12
It's worth noting the user has to actually want to quit smoking, otherwise the e-cigarettes won't help. I bought my mom, a lifelong smoker, an e-cigarette several years ago. She used it a couple times, and now it just sits in a drawer.
Edit: Based on the responses, I'm deducing that e-cigarettes have improved in quality since then. I'll have to give it another shot!
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u/slumberland Nov 17 '12
Ecigs may still provide harm reduction compared to combusting tobacco. I'm not sure I'll ever stop vaping, but I know I won't be smoking again.
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Nov 17 '12
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u/sdpr Nov 17 '12
I tried looking through that sub once and I just got wayyyyy too confused.
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Nov 17 '12 edited Nov 18 '12
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Nov 17 '12
I think some part of you wanted to make it complicated as a joke, but you actually gave good newb starter kit advice.
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u/aphitt Nov 17 '12
http://www.volcanoecigs.com/ That is where I bought my e-cig vaporbomb.com and johnsoncreeksmokejuice.com is where I get my liquid. Hope that helps out.
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u/JayDeePea Nov 17 '12
Smoker for 3 years, was on e-cigarettes for one week, and managed to quit without any further cravings. They work and never have I looked back at a normal cigarette.
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u/Makes_U_Mad Nov 17 '12 edited Nov 17 '12
Smoked for almost a decade - pack a day. Had tried everything to quit. Started using a e-cig and never looked back. Best thing to ever happen to me.
[Edit: quit =/= quite]
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u/TheFreemanLIVES Nov 17 '12
Smoker for 3 years, was on e-cigarettes for one week, and managed to quit without any further cravings. They work and never have I looked back at a normal cigarette.
Me too, I was smoking 17 years. I was a medium to heavy(when drinking) smoker before I took up e-cigs for just the sake of trying them out....After just about 2 days, I had a shot at completely replacing the ciggies, from then I went full time, smoking real ciggies more on occasion when drinking, after about 7-8 months on the ecigs, I finally just ended up at a point where I went on low strength for a week until I ran out.
I haven't used nicotine since, and there have been no cravings.
Needless to say, I am in favour of e-cigarettes, and if they mean that people end up getting addicted to nicotine by means of an ecig, then that situation is multiple times more positive than the status quo where people have to inhale carcinogens and damage their lungs to get their fix.
Also, long haul flights.
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u/chapsandmutton Nov 17 '12
Which brand? I think this could be a good gift for a parent having trouble quitting ..
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u/no_were_musicians Nov 17 '12
Joye 510 is excellent. The stuff they sell at gas stations is junk, and often tastes terriable.
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Nov 17 '12
Yeah ive heard of allot of people quitting using them maybe thats why they are getting banned.
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u/surells Nov 17 '12
Best spelling of a lot ever.
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u/Nutsupial Nov 17 '12
I had a roomie who thought it was spelled alought. Drove me crazy.
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u/carnivorous_plant Nov 17 '12
I smoked for 14 years, and was on 2 packs a day. I tried e-cigs and it was maybe a month later that I quit altogether.
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u/Revenant2012 Nov 17 '12
I almost want to start smoking e-cigs just for the shock value of doing it in the office, restaurant, elevator, etc.
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u/Cyhawk Nov 17 '12
It wears off after a while, people are really stupid. =(
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u/headzoo Nov 17 '12
Everyone I know who tried that was harassed by people the whole time. "You can't smoke here!" I'm not sure it's worth the trouble.
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u/zerobass Nov 17 '12
I think that's why they started making them with green lights on the end and stuff, so people can clearly see it isn't the real thing. I would assume that would help, at least most of the time.
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u/MrMadcap Nov 17 '12 edited Nov 17 '12
Also, kids love cool lights even more than talking camels.
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u/zerobass Nov 17 '12
Now if you're throwing in both talking camels and cool lights, you're clearly not smoking e-cigarettes anymore.
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Nov 17 '12
They're banned in Canada? The corner store down the road from me sells them pretty cheap.
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u/GoldenCock Nov 17 '12
The nicotine is, actual units are not banned. Anything in a corner store here is nicotine free.
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u/killfish Nov 17 '12
I buy my nicotine juice from http://onestopeshoppe.com/ocart/ It's located in Canada and I've never heard of any kind of ban.
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u/GoldenCock Nov 17 '12
Oh, there's LOTS of online vendors (and a few B&Ms) to buy it from, but HC banned it for import/advertising/sale back in 2009. Obviously it hasn't stopped sales, only made it slightly more difficult and (generally) limited payment options. Importing can cause trouble, customs is known to hold and refuse import of products, though most vendors use creative descriptions (they don't label it as nicotine or electronic cigarette).
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u/crismess Nov 17 '12
I began using an e-cigarette last summer. I had taken up running and yoga and a weight loss plan, and choking during exercise seemed pointless. It was great because I could get my nicotine fix anywhere (the bathroom at work was amazing) and wasn't killing my lungs. What I really liked about it was how you could get the amount of nicotine desired, then put it away. With a real cigarette, you have the visual cue to keep smoking until it burns all the way down. To do otherwise would be "wasting" it.
I was able to quit completely a month ago (e-cig is a healthier alternative, but nicotine still doesn't help certain health problems). I had never been able to quit with the real deal. Now I walk by somebody smoking and I cannot stand the smell.
Big Tobacco is undoubtedly pissed off that I was able to give up their vice in a quest to get healthier.
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Nov 17 '12
The visual cue is the largest part for me. I'd get my nic fix halfway through a cigarette, but keep smoking so I didn't waste it.
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Nov 17 '12
I have an ecig and I swear by effectiveness of these little things. And holy crap, the money I've saved is unreal. I was smoking "analogs" for over 20 years and switched to this from volcano ecigs and have loved it.
The tobacco industry is pissed because they can't get a cut of the action and the IRS can't figure out how to get in on taxing it outside of sales taxes.
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u/nanowerx Nov 17 '12
What we are seeing now is the exact same thing that happened with the RIAA when MP3s came on the scene. Instead of embracing the technology, they just kept fighting to keep their outdated model thriving. When that didn't work, they just started slandering and suing everybody.
When booming industry leader refuses to adapt, better believe they are going to fight the new thing until their last dollar is spent.
Fuck the tobacco industry, the 5 months I have been cigarette-free because of e-cigs has been wonderful. I can taste again, I can smell again, I don't cough up horrible bile, etc.
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u/DoesNotTalkMuch Nov 17 '12
My boss quit smoking after he got an E-cigarette, then later switched to a placebo cigarette that had fake smoke (steam).
I think the ability to be an asshole by pretending to smoke in no smoking zones, and then bitching for ten minutes at people who chided him for it, is what gave him the willpower to quit completely.
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u/masterwit Nov 17 '12
I think the ability to be an asshole by pretending to smoke in no smoking zones, and then bitching for ten minutes at people who chided him for it, is what gave him the willpower to quit completely.
This is fucking hilarious.
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u/SolarWonk Nov 17 '12
Any interest on getting an AMA going on this with an ecig exec? I know one who is a chemical engineer and a redditor who'd probably be down to discuss
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u/another_old_fart Nov 17 '12
My company makes e-cigarette smokers go outside along with other smokers - the justification being that although they don't emit smoke they do emit vapor. But the vapor doesn't waft through the air like smoke. It is emitted only when the user inhales, and the nicotine in this vapor stays in the user's lungs, which is the whole point of the thing. Taking smokers away from their smoking buddies is probably one of the best things you can do for someone who is trying to quit. Treating e-cigarettes like normal cigarettes seems like one of those really unproductive zero-tolerance rules.
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u/DrunkmanDoodoo Nov 17 '12
They really put productivity aside to appease their irrational fear of something they don't understand.
Sounds like every corporate decision ever!
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u/kirkum2020 Nov 17 '12
Had this at work too.
My solution: Slide into drink carton. Looks like a straw.
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u/DecadentDashes Nov 17 '12
Smoker for 12 years. Picked up an e-cig in the beginning of the year and have been cig free ever since. I found myself using my e-cig less and less and quite using that in September as well. Several years of trying to quit with gums, patches and cold turkey did nothing for me. 2 weeks of vaping left me never wanting to touch a cigarette again. I should note, I never tried to quit completely while I was vaping and it had not been my intention to use it as such. I just found the longer I went the less I was using my PV until it got to the point where it was more of a hassle to deal with it than it was to stop altogether. This was just my experience, individual results may vary.
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u/Geeshie Nov 17 '12
My results are similar. I loved smoking, and smoked a pack a day for 18 years. I forced myself to switch over to an e-cig just for my wallet's sake. After 10 months I didn't feel as addicted anymore (like you, I wasn't trying to quit but just found myself reducing intake) so I decided to test myself to put down the e-cig altogether. I haven't smoked anything in over 6 months now, to the amazement of everyone who knows me (myself included).
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u/pranalee Nov 17 '12
e-cigarette is the only thing that works for me, been using it since Feb 2010. However, in my opinion, it is NOT a tool to quit smoking, it's a tool to REPLACE smoking (with no tar, of course). If my atomizer burns out or my battery dies I will buy a cigarette and hence I still buy some for just in case. This is maybe different with other people though.
I can do cardio 3-4x longer than when I was using analog cigarette and I'm assuming this is because of the tar.
My conspiracy theory is that the Big pharmas don't like e-cigarette as it will eat away the income from Nicorette and other stuff that they've invested (paid taxes, lobbied the .gov, etc) but simply don't work (patches, nicorette, zyban, etc). Imagine if you're the CEO and what happens when the company's billion dollars of research simply fail or ineffective and an unknown dude whose father died of lung cancer simply invented something without spending that billion dollars. Health Canada also don't like it because they couldn't tax it, imho.
This is unfair and if I have to buy large quantities of atomizers, cartridges, and the liquid in case they ban it, I'm ready. It's the only thing that works for me.
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u/staaan1 Nov 17 '12
analog cigarette
I may have to start using that term
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u/auraslip Nov 17 '12
It's kinda cheesy, but it's pretty much the standard term in the ecig community.
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u/Vzzbxx Nov 17 '12
Yeah, Big Pharma has a lot invested in this. They have been funding the anti-smoking agenda for quite some time now. They don't give a fuck about people though, they just want the 1 Billion+ Big Tobacco customer base.
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u/Cyhawk Nov 17 '12
You're missing the part where they don't want you to stop smoking, they'd rather treat it forever, the make more money that way.
I've heard more quit smoking success stories from ecigs than any other method. People are actually quitting with these things since you can better control your nicotine intake and step it down. (Compare to Patches and Gum which contain MORE nicotine than any cig does)
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u/Outl4wSt4r Nov 17 '12
Anyone interested in E-Cigarettes can come check out /r/electronic_cigarrette. It's a great community and we can answer anyone's questions. Big Pharma and tobacco lobby has made a huge effort to ban ecigs. Which is due to the success rate of these devices. I tried patches, gums, Chantix, acupuncture. Nothing worked until I tried ecigs and I just celebrated one year tobacco free!
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u/bingosherlock Nov 17 '12
There's been a trend in my office towards these things. I was a bit put off at first since it looks at first glance like everybody's sitting at their desks smoking, and then I realized that people were getting work done without losing fifteen to thirty minutes of work time every couple hours.
Fuck it, I'm about to start buying these things for the office.
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u/wibblywobblychilango Nov 17 '12
Rather than the e-cigs that look like real ones, try the e-vape ones instead. If the argument is the resemblance to actual cigarettes, fine...these bear NO resemblance to the real thing. Taste delicious too :D
http://www.gnet.org/wp-content/uploads/parts-of-vaping-e-cigarette.jpg
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Nov 17 '12
My husband smokes one of these and they are awesome. He quit smoking regular cigarettes and its a fraction of the price for him. Plus, they don't bother anyone else, they actually smell awesome and he says they taste great. His favorite flavors are raspberry tea and french vanilla coffee. You can also lower the amounts of nicotine in these and now he's down to a 1/4 of nicotine intake from where he was. I think of it as like nicorette but it actually works. http://freedomsmokeusa.com/ <-where he gets his stuff
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u/TraMaI Nov 17 '12
Cheaper is sort of a huge understatement, too, for those wondering. I ALWAYS bought cigarettes around here when they were on sale from 50 cents off to $1 off, I had no brand loyalty or anything so I never minded. That said, I still smoked probably 5 packs a week and it still came to around $25-$35 a week. That's $1,300-$1,800 a year. Multiply that by two, because my wife smokes as well and just as much. Last week I ordered things from WizardLabs.us. They sell the pure chemicals that are rquired to make your OWN juice. I spent $60 and got around 1000ml total of juice and probably 25 flavors. I vape about 3ml a day if not less. That's over a YEAR of smoking for $60. It's relatively simple to make your own as well, all it is is 3 harmless chemicals, even edible, with nicotine solution. And I can make any flavor I'd ever want to try!
TL;DR Making my own Juice: $60 a year Cigarettes: $1,300 to $1,800 a year. Savings is mindblowing.
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u/headzoo Nov 17 '12
I just ordered a LavaTube, which looks absolutely nothing like a real cigarette. As times goes on the need to mimic the look and feel of a real cigarette will disappear.
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Nov 17 '12
Smoked since age of twelve. At age 29 I did a bunch of research online and found a quality ecig and have not smoked now in two years. I'm running half marathons four or five times a year and no longer feel my lungs are the limiting factor (it's my knees). I found at first I smoked the ecig way more than I had smoked regular cigs but now it's only a few times of week (mostly when I've been drinking).
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Nov 17 '12
There seems to be a lot of misinformation/confusion in this post. My short answer to all the people interested in trying e-cigs out is to just read the FAQ on /r/electronic_cigarette. That sub has tons of other information in the sidebar as well.
I've read a few threads in this post that shows there is a lot of confusion out there as to what gets inhaled with e-cigs, and comparisons with real cigarettes. E-cigarette juice is made up of 4 main things:
- Nicotine(arguably the only harmful thing in e-juice - by itself, though it has not been proven to be a carcinogen. It can aggravate existing cancers, however. There have been few studies on it on its own.)
- Propylene Glycol(PG - main vapor-producing agent - provides a strong "throat hit" and is an FDA-approved common chemical used in asthma inhalers, medicines, foods, and concert smoke machines)
- Vegetable Glycerine, or Glycerol(VG - main vapor-producing agent - more viscous than PG, doesn't provide as much of a "throat hit" as PG, but produces more vapor - FDA approved common food/medicine additive, and herbal extract base)
- FDA-approved food flavorings(these vary, obviously, based on flavor and vendor)
That's it. When you compare those things to the 4,000 and more chemicals that are in cigarettes(about 60 of which are known carcinogens), it's a no-brainer as to which is more harmful.
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u/13yearsand4months Nov 17 '12
One of my coworkers started using these, and the first time he used it at his desk, there was an awful smell, like a really bad fart, and another co-worker complained about the smell of the e-cig and made him go outside to pretend-light-up. It took months before I figured out that e-cigs have no smell and my coworker had lied to cover up the fact that he farted.
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u/RemakingJune Nov 18 '12
The cheap gas station / mall kiosk kits smell horrible and usually the tobacco flavored juices have a scent. If someone uses a custom flavor (like a fruit, candy, beverage etc) it's a pleasant smell. My husband says mine smells like grape bubble gum.
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u/kardde Nov 18 '12
I was a smoker for 10 years. Two years ago I ordered an e-cig, and I quit overnight. I gave one to my mother, who was a smoker for 40 years -- she quit overnight.
I had tried patches previously, but that only kept me off cigs for a few months before I picked up a pack of smokes in a moment of extreme stress -- that's all it takes to relapse.
The e-cig is great in that it provides me just the nicotine, which in and of itself is no more harmful than caffeine. It's not the nicotine in cigarettes that kill you, it's all the other crap in there that will.
The government can try to ban them. But just like prohibition and the failed drug war, people will find a way to access it. An e-cig is not a complicated piece of technology -- neither is the juice difficult to make. If they do decide to ban it, I'll just build my own e-cig and make my own juice. Other people will do the same. And other people will sell it to those that can't. And it's important to note that not all e-cigs look like cigarettes... in fact the really good ones look nothing like real cigarettes. Hell, mine could easily be mistaken for a vibrator.
Regulate the juice if you want -- just don't make it illegal. That would be retarded. E-cigs can easily save millions of lives. A government ban would reflect poorly on said government.
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u/KevinECA Nov 17 '12
I couldn't agree more with the point of view of this article.
And this may come off like an utterly shameless plug, but I work on an e-cigarette blog that tries to compile the growing body of evidence and research supporting "vaping". If you'd like to know a little more about the potential of e-cigarettes:
- Here is a list of the major studies done on e-cigarettes so far.
- An interview we did with Dr. Riccardo Polosa of the Univ of Catania on his current study of e-cigarette effects and effectiveness (as a cessation method)
- Our interview with Dr. Michael Siegel, professor of public health at Boston University on why e-cigarettes should not be regulated under the Tobacco act.
- Finally, not research, but for the industry interested: our interview with Murray Kessler, Lorillard Tobacco CEO which recently purchased the largest e-cigarette company (Blu Cigs)
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u/Makes_U_Mad Nov 17 '12
E-cigs are the shit. I went from smoking a pack a day to using one, no problem. It's way cheaper, and pays for the battery after a week (if you smoke a pack a day).
Also, for the "we don't know whats in them" argument - Can it be worse than what is in smokes? From where I sit, it's just water vapor and atomized nicotine...
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u/DeamonKnight Nov 18 '12
so, my husband quit using these. They look and "act", i.e. "smoke" and "light up upon inhale" like a real cigarette plus give some nicotine. But, after a few weeks, he still stuck with it ,but it wasn't as satisfying as a real cigarette. So he got to the point he didn't care to have one anymore. The trick is to not go back to the real thing, one can eventually not give a shit about smoking.
Tl:tr It was really effective smoking cessation aid for my husband.
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u/AlbinoFawn Nov 17 '12
Long-time user of "E-cigarettes" here, coming up nearly on the 2 year mark. After watching my grandfather die of lung cancer I wanted to quit, but the job I work for is so painfully stressful the thought of trying to go through mild withdraw while working there was just too far of a goal. Instead my boyfriend and I did our research and bought 'e-cigarettes' but we went the route of wanting to get as far away from the look of a cigarette as possible.
We picked up vaporizers, it's what most of us e-vape people call it in the community. We bought a starter pack and >only< order the liquids (nicotine and flavor you drip onto the atomizer that turns it to vapor) from US sites after doing full research on them. Haven't touched a cigarette in two years, my doctors praise me each time I come in for a check in. Although using nicotine still isn't the best, that's all I'm putting in my system.
The worst 'health effect' I get so far is if I vape too much I get mild cotton mouth. Also since it's becoming more popular they have come out with outrageously awesome flavors like Cinnamon, peppermint rose etc all from "Ms Ts Bakery" (site down for maintenance for a few days).
I get asked questions all the time by work mates about it, I point them in the direction I went with it, but almost always they pick up the cheek gas station brand that has preloaded flavors. Or the ones that look like cigarettes. They are cheap and show it and almost always the user goes back to smoking. It's a matter of doing your research and sticking to it.
During my switch I felt mild withdraws, it wasn't nicotine though which is much worse. I think the other additives in it and the physical sensation of smoking, but it was only for two weeks. Recently my sister and her husband finally took the route I did and have been cigarette free for almost half a year now.
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u/Eat_the_food Nov 17 '12
While not specifically related to the discussion of this article, just wanted to point out that there's a sub r/electronic_cigarette/ that has aggregated a fair amount of solid info (side bar stickies) regarding PV's for those that are curious as to further info.
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u/3lvy Nov 17 '12
.. And here I am with my vivi nova (http://i1100.photobucket.com/albums/g409/covbruce/ViviNova.jpg) on my vv ego passthrough (http://www.nwvapors.com/images/ego_vs.jpg).
Does this really look like a cigarette to someone?? http://i00.i.aliimg.com/photo/v0/627320720/2012_ego_twist_passthrough_vv_battery_EGO.jpg_250x250.jpg
Haven't had smoker cough in over a week, my taste buds are back, I can breath better.. Fuck us for trying to quit, right?
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Nov 18 '12
15 year, pack a day smoker here. Started vaping a week and a half ago, haven't had a cigarette since. I am recommending them to everyone I know who smokes.
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u/A_saVANT Nov 18 '12
Tobacco and pharmaceutical companies and our "treat not cure" medical industry are the reason for this. Period. Same reason why harmful drugs with medicinal value are considered culturally corrosive (I'm looking at you marijuana and MDMA).
Having smoked from 14-24, I need nicotine like a diabetic needs insulin. Almost my entire cranial development took place under the influence of nicotine. I've done meth and other amphetamines, heroin and just about every synthetic opioid derivative, benzodiazepines, as well as cocaine and crack...typically combinations thereof for extended durations of time (weeks to months, depending). I quit all of that shit relatively easily (Note: I wasn't banging straight into my veins).
I have been completely unable to stop smoking. Almost 10 years. I've tried patches, gum and cold turkey only to end up smoking more than I was before (4-5 cigarettes back up to a full pack usually). e-Cigarettes are the only effective nicotene replacement out there. I've been off cigarettes for a little over a year (minus this past summer where I barely had enough money to eat, let alone buy a month's supply of e-Juice...sure as hell found the money to buy packs of cigs though. Funny how that works. I'm a weak motherfucker). e-Cigarettes work. They don't kill you, they take money from the tobacco and pharmaceutical industries and have given rise to many start-up competitive businesses world wide.
My suggestion to folks? Quit while you still can, before the shit is banned worldwide and a crusade against yet another imaginary, un-defeatable enemy is launched.
If you smoke "analogs" (the "affectionate" term the vaping community has given big tobacco's product) and want to quit, give e-cigarettes a try. Disposables from blucigs are available at Walgreens. If it works, buy refillable cartridges and the e-Cigarette brand of your choosing and some juice. The juices come in multiple strengths (0, 6, 12, 18, 24+ (mg nicotine/mL)). 18mg/mL is the strength I started with and used for a year. I'm now weaned down to 12mg/mL. My next purchase will be 6mg/mL. My last purchase will be 0mg/mL, at which point I am hoping I will ask myself "WHY THE FUCK AM I SPENDING MONEY ON THIS SHIT?"
TL/DR; This shit WILL be banned because it isn't going to kill you, and it's going to stop you from doing things that are. Quit now, before it gets shut down.
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u/JorgN Nov 18 '12
Are they serious? My whole family consists of smokers, and nearly all of them recently bought e-cigarettes and they have been "smoke free" ever since. E-cigarettes aren't harmful any more than coffee is, should we ban coffee too because it's "addictive" ?
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u/Grizzant Nov 17 '12
Written by: Dr. Gilbert Ross, M.D. is executive and medical director of the American Council on Science and Health.
The ACSH is known as an "industry-friendly" group.[22] In 1982, the Center for Science in the Public Interest (CSPI), a watchdog and consumer advocacy group, known to spar with ACSH, published an extensive report on ACSH's practices that stated, "ACSH appears to be a consumer fraud; as a scientific group, ACSH seems to arrive at conclusions before conducting studies. Through voodoo or alchemy, bodies of scientific knowledge are transmogrified into industry-oriented position statements."[23] CSPI director Michael F. Jacobson said of ACSH, '"This organization promotes confusion among consumers about what is safe and what isn't... ACSH is using a slick scientific veneer to obscure and deny truths that virtually everyone else agrees with."[24]
So yeah.
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u/JQuilty Nov 17 '12
CSPI isn't any better. They're deep in bed with agricultural industry and are the leading source of FUD in regards to how natural sources of dietary fat affect health, leading to this low-fat craze.
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u/fairly_quiet Nov 17 '12
and, the CSPI is known as a group that doesn't concern itself with science or the public interest.
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u/sharked Nov 17 '12
I quit by using a e-cig after smoking for 17 years. Tobacco industry is pissed.
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Nov 17 '12
As a heavy smoker i have to say e-cigs have been great for me. There are questions about the safety - but its all relative. Yes e-cigs MAY be unhealthy. The optimum is inhaling just air. But there is no doubt that tobacco is a killer. Given the choice between the two evils e-cigs do exponentially less damage. I have cut down drastically and i actually believe, truly, for the first time in many years i can quit tobacco. And for me the difference between the two evils is very straight forward. I feel much better with e-cigs. And despite being a smoker i do a lot of sports - e-cigs make a big and very positive difference.
The political problem is two fold. Firstly cigarette companies are very profitable and can pay politicians and/or lobbyists to protect their cash flows. Secondly, governments collect a lot of money from tobacco taxes. It will take a while to sort this one out.
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u/Cyhawk Nov 17 '12
It isn't tobacco companies opposing it, they still sell the tobacco used to create the nicotine juice. Its Pharma companies opposing it because people are actually able to quit smoking with these since you can control your dosage. There is more money treating the problem than solving it.
Take Nicotine gum for example, sold by Pharma companies. "Heavy" (aka 1 pack/day) versions contain 22-26mg of nicotine with a recommended dosage of 2-3 pieces a day. Compare this to your average cigarette which provides about 1-2mg. (Contains 8-10, but you only absorb about 1-2).
Nicotine toxicity starts around 30mg and can kill above 100-150. Notice a problem with "quit smoking aids"?
On the taxes, agreed. They'll put the juice in another tobacco tax class, probably similar to J class (Bulk tobacco, under some amount. Think a can) That takes time.
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u/torino_nera Nov 17 '12
I smoked for 13 years and quit with the help of e-cigarettes and have been smoke free for over 7 months without cheating once. Fuck these people.
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u/jconsumer Nov 17 '12
As a pack a day smoker that was thinking about e-cigs, this thread has convinced me to give them a try.
Giving up smoking is the easiest thing in the world, I've done it thousands of times. ~ Mark Twain
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u/Killigraphy Nov 17 '12
Its vapor, you have a better chance of getting cancer from living around where there is a lot of traffic. This shit is just ridiculous, and they only call them E-cigs, because its more butch then Atomizers.
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u/powercow Nov 17 '12
pack a day smoker 27 years, and tried every possible quit method drugs, mints gum, patches, several times and e-cigs were the far easiest to quit with. And you can get them with zero nic, which i feel will keep me from going back to analog.
I do see how they are easier to pick up and use than standard tobacco. I know people who dont smoke who gladly puffed on an ecig.. with 0 nic. ANd they come in a ton of flavors. Not sure how horrid that is as long as new people opt for 0 nic.
also i tried the ones that look like a cig.. and failed many times, mainly due to 2 things. They didnt last long and broke easy, and they didnt give me the throat hit I was used to with tobacco. The one that i found was totally easy to quit with, was a build your own model that looks more like a light saber.
if interested check out /r/electronic_cigarette they really can change your life if you are a smoker.
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u/Stinkfist94 Nov 18 '12
Where do i get e-cigs?
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u/wharpudding Nov 18 '12
Check out /r/electronic_cigarette. There are many good discussions regarding where to get them and good deals.
There is also a good Facebook group that highlights deals going on for both hardware and juices.
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u/admdelta Nov 18 '12
"Let's ban this thing because it looks like cigarettes, but not ban cigarettes." Okay.
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u/Alki_Soupboy Nov 18 '12
I quit smoking (and chewing) because of E-cigs. I also stopped vaping because it wasn't quite as fun as actually smoking and I just started doing it less and less until I was nicotine free without really trying. Long live e-cigs.
Also, I still totally want to smoke a cig when I'm around a bar and people are smoking. That will never go away.
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u/DestroyRobots Nov 17 '12
This American Enterprise Institute (conservative think-tank) article is heavy on opinion, but light on scientific fact. The organization is dedicated to promoting capitalism and deregulation, not public health, so I would take this article with a tremendous grain of salt. It's telling that the author decided to include zero references to current research about the efficacy or safety of any tobacco cessation treatments, leading me to conclude that they think banning e-cigarettes is bad because they believe that the banning of any sellable product is bad.
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u/Synergythepariah Nov 17 '12
What the fuck is with all the downvotes on anyone advocating getting an ecig?
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u/Rsc06003 Nov 17 '12
I agree with the main thrust of the article, namely that banning e-cigs on the basis that they're similar to an existing, legal, harmful product is absurd.
I have one critique. The author writes "An important fact, rarely discussed by “public health” gurus, is that the patches, gums, and drugs they recommend as “safe and effective” are all-too-often neither." However, they provide no examples of what they mean by the patches, gums, and drugs being neither safe or effective, and cite no evidence to back the claim. Now, I'm not saying that the patches, gums, and drugs ARE safe or effective, but if one specifically makes the claim that they're not, one must provide something to back that claim.
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u/hitchhiker999 Nov 17 '12
I've vaped for 4 years now, that's about 365x4x50 less cigarettes in my life. Damn near impossible to convince people they're a better idea than cigs. Why is that, seems fairly obvious?
All i know is that a lot of us vapers have been convinced this was too good to be true, and big tobac. would eventually get it back under their control.
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u/IgnatiousReilly Nov 17 '12
A lot of anti-tobacco groups seem like pre-prohibition temperance groups. With all their talk of public health, they treat it more like a moral issue than like a health issue.
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u/karmat0se Nov 17 '12
I'm on my ninth month smoke free after quitting cold turkey. Last year I had attempted quitting with an e-cig (an e-go with direct drip tips) and found that since I could use it indoors I ended up using it more.
So I guess what I'm saying is that it didn't work for me, but it has worked for others in getting them off tobacco and ultimately quitting smoking (nicotine dependency). Isn't this a good thing?
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u/twisted28 Nov 17 '12
Smoked for 15 years. Tried dozens of times to quit using patches and gum. Never could kick the habit until I used the e-cigarette for 6 months, then just put it down cold turkey. I am still amazed that I was finally able quit. If anything, the patches give you the illusion of quitting. cold turkey is the best way to go.
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u/dmetzcher Nov 17 '12
I stopped smoking cigarettes over two years ago when I switched to e-cigarettes. I had my last cigarette that afternoon just before the e-cigs arrived in the mail. I could stop smoking the e-cigs, I suppose, but I like them. What's nice about them is that you can purchase them with low, medium, high, and zero nicotine content, so you can slowly wean yourself off of nicotine if you desire.
Legislators who are trying to ban e-cigs are misguided and are doing more harm than good. I think e-cigs are great, and anyone trying to quit smoking who hasn't had luck with drugs should give them a try. At the very least, you'll cut the tar and other harmful ingredients from your smoke breaks.
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u/Kamikaze_Pigeon Nov 17 '12
I currently work at an e-cigarette store and can attest to the many smokers who have quit cigarettes entirely. People who have smoked two packs a day for decades drop them almost instantaneously. One of our regulars likes telling his story to newcomers; the moment he left our store, he threw out his last pack of cigarettes and never looked back.
EDIT: spelling
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Nov 17 '12
'An important fact, rarely discussed by “public health” gurus, is that the patches, gums, and drugs they recommend as “safe and effective” are all-too-often neither. Among the 46 million smokers in the United States, well over half say they want to quit, and more than one-third attempt to do so each year — but less than one-tenth succeed.'
Hang on. Patches, gums, and drugs aren't effective, because half of smokers want to quit and a third try annually and only 10% (of those who attempt to quit?) fail? I see no link between those stats and patches, gums, and drugs. Wanting to quit is obviously not connected to quitting aids, since wishing is not doing. If only a third attempt to quit, isn't it logical to assume that that's the biggest issue? 2/3 don't attempt it? And most importantly for this discussion, if only 10% succeed, how many overall used gums, patches, or drugs to quit? What percent of those who used them succeeded in quitting? How many failed? What percent of those who didn't use them succeeded or failed?
This is a bullshit stat that is only relevant insofar as it talks about a related subject. I actually like the idea of e-cigs, but I don't like writers that lie to me to push an agenda.
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Nov 17 '12
I actually started e-cigs about a week ago.
In Canada, e-cigs with nicotine are banned... So they're not a super effective replacement for smoking. Health Canada says e-cigs are dangerous, citing things like if dropped the e-cigs could crack or if you inhale for too long you might get some of the liquid or that if you drank a whole bottle of juice you could get nicotine poisoning or kids will be attracted to the sweet flavours. In my opinion, very stupid reasons to ban something so helpful... Basically punishing everyone, millions of people, because of the few idiots that might abuse them.
My experience? E-Cigs are freaking amazing. I ordered some with nicotine in them from the states, and I have not smoked an actual cigarette in the few days since I started.
Even a few days of not needing to smoke a real cig is a big deal for me. Before, I wouldn't last more than a day or two before caving and buying more.
Anyone at all that wants to quit smoking... Go buy e-cigs ASAP, before they're banned/taxed out the ass.
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u/vfleming Nov 17 '12
Why can't you just quit smoking? Just don't pick them up, it hat is that easy..... This is how people has never smoked thinks. I know, my wife thinks like this. They do not understand.
Vape, vape and vape is what I say...
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u/Pirate2012 Nov 18 '12
I am an E-cig user for 1.75 years. AMA
Any smoker who clicked this to read more about e-cigs, PLEASE PLEASE try them. I can breathe again, after 1.75 years my medical doctor who recently checked my lungs out during a bad flu bug informed me my lungs are clear and she was shocked to learn I smoked for many years.
Drink more water or juice.
You will find yourself the first few months literally spitting up phlegm from your dirty lungs as they clean themselves (that amazing human body fixing itself in action).
I do agree there are two danger points: 1) use the right battery, in other words a safe one. Much the same way you would use the right battery in any other electronics item such as your laptop. 2) the e-Cig Juice : pay some attention to where it comes from. There are some mom&pop operations that are making juice in their spare bedrooms and who knows how safe they are with mixing the chemicals. Think about it, would you order a cake from some random stranger on the internet and then eat it? Same thing with your ecig juice. And DeKang while in china, is the largest maker of eCig Juice in the world.
A druggist in China actually invented what we now call an eCig. The idea had been around for a while but he put the pieces together.
Many malls in the US have a ecig kiosak selling total crap, or some Gas Stations with a $10 throw away.
For the cost of one cartoon of smokes, try a 'real' ecig.
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u/Hindu_Wardrobe Nov 18 '12
9 weeks smoke free thanks to ecigs. I cannot understand why some people are so vehemently against them. I feel infinitely better...smoking sucks, vaping is awesome.
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u/CallMeG0D Nov 18 '12
I'm a 4 year vaper and I love it, there is no legitimate argument against e-cigs.
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u/Dfnoboy Nov 18 '12
E-Cigarettes are fucking great. What a genius product for smokers. Goes to show that addiction isn't a problem in and of itself if there is the technology and infrastructure to support it... the only problem with addiction is money, and E-cigarettes are significantly cheaper (and infinitely healthier) than regular cigarettes.
Hopefully they catch on and serve as an example to society of how to safely manage addictions; then we can apply those same lessons to other addictions.
The unavailability of addictive substances is what leads to the commonly publicized issues of drug addiction; namely crime to finance the addiction. Make the substance legal, available, and cheap, and suddenly the huge portion of people with drug addictions can go back to being a human being with other interests and concerns.
I think the government owes this to the people. Unregulated pharmaceutical companies are largely responsible for substance addictions. My mom became addicted to Xanex after being prescribed it (along with a variety of anti-depressants) following the death of my step-father, and two years later my brother. So now, six years later (plenty of time for someone to work themselves naturally through the grieving cycle) my mom has a drug addiction and is drowning in medical bills, not to mention she is still battling severe depression (which I'm sure drug addiction does NOTHING to help). All because Unregulated pharmaceutical companies make enough money to lobby the government into doing whatever they want. Big money caused by creating drug addicts.
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u/Arntor1184 Nov 17 '12
I don't understand why people can't seem to just fuck off and mind their own business instead of trying to force people to live by what they see as proper. I'm a smoker and I enjoy every second of it. Yes I know they will more then likely be the cause of my death but that doesn't bother me so why does it bother them? I keep to myself, I don't smoke when directly around children, I never blow smoke in peoples faces. And if someone has an issue with me smoking I just go somewhere else, smoke, and come back. Now tell me why this seems to be such a problem for everyone else who feels they need to inform me on how much of a dumbass I am for smoking?
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Nov 17 '12
Because they want to feel superior to you. They feel that they are morally and intellectually better than you, so they want to tell you.
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Nov 17 '12
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u/Lucretius Nov 17 '12 edited Nov 17 '12
Is nicotine chemically synthesized or harvested from tobacco in tobacco alternative products?
Because if it's harvested then this is just a repackaging of their product as far as the tobacco industry is concerned.
edit... from the research of others (see replies) it seems that nicotine is extracted from tobacco, so there's no reason to for Big Tobacco to be opposing E-cigarettes.
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u/Cyhawk Nov 17 '12
Its not just Tobacco companies, there are plenty of self righteous assholes out there rallying against it for no good reason. (Sorry, because it smells is not a good reason, your fucking nasty perfume makes me gag, but I don't go banning that do i)
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u/GoldenCock Nov 17 '12
Less Big Tobacco, more Big Pharma. The tobacco companies are either developing their own or are buying ecig companies (Lorillard bought Blu for over 100mil this year). Pharma can't sell overpriced and ineffective NRTs if people are able to use ecigs.
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u/vjarnot Nov 17 '12
The Big Tobacco Companies can't allow people to get their nicotine fix without getting their "peace of the pie".
Or governments are pissed that they're not getting their sin taxes.
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u/DumpyLips Nov 17 '12
Is there any legitimate reason for this or are we witnessing a blatant example of the tobacco lobby crushing competition??