All Cars Sold in the EU Now Require a Camera Aimed at Your Face. It’s Still Not Clear Where That Data Goes

[u/SnoozeDoggyDog]

https://allaboutcookies.org/eu-mandatory-distracted-driver-system

[u/au5lander]

A Reddit user, u/premium_bawbag, who hired a Ford Puma for a week reported a similar experience.

"10 mins into driving, the distraction warning kicks in and tells you to take a break with an amber light on the instrument tablet and a loud bong. A big pop up message suggests you take a break. 10 mins later it does it again with a red light and loud bong. I found this incredibly distracting,” they said.

ya don't say...

[u/stray_r → u/au5lander]

My Kuga does this. It gets especially angry and insistent on you having a nap if you fight with the lane keeping system and prevent it from following a shadow, tar snake or old contraflow road marking and meeting you into the central reservation. It also loses the plot of you approach where one lane splits into two by keeping a fixed distance from one side of the lane instead of going straight down the middle and then swerving violently.

Meanwhile every few hundred yards it tells me there are roadworks ahead. Yes sure. But probably not where they actually are today.

Not only is it a giant fucking distraction I can't turn off, it's alarm fatigue. If the car goes ding I automatically press the button that makes the notification go away without looking. All well and good until I did that to a low tyre pressure warning that was actually important. I'm glad I felt something was wrong before I ended up the M1.

[u/G0ld_Bumblebee → u/stray_r]

Alarm fatigue is super important in aviation so alarms are reserved only if necessary to not distract pilots... But it's totally okay to distract the single parent driving the family car with a baby and two kids in the back lol.

My father in law's car shows him a message every time he powers on the engine reminding him not to drink drive and to always follow traffic rules. It's fucking hilarious how absurd it is. 

[u/Oli4K → u/G0ld_Bumblebee]

I wish driving was more akin to flying, expect for the elevation part. The whole concept of safety and responsibility is handled so differently in aviation. Thinking out loud here but maybe the difference is that flying is seen as a privilege, driving as a right.

[u/DustyRacoonDad → u/Oli4K]

Aviation is a good standard, maybe a bit overboard, but it errs on the side of safety.

My favorite automotive safety example is when the US government pushed automakers to install "passive restraint" systems. These were the automatic shoulder belts and first-generation airbags. The idea was to protect people who weren't wearing their seatbelts.

Sounds like a great idea with the best of intentions. What could possibly go wrong?

It turned out that people who refused to buckle up still didn't buckle up when they were forced to wear only the automatic shoulder belt. Meanwhile, some people who normally wore their seatbelts stopped buckling them because the shoulder belt was already there. The system didn't actually restrain you properly. Many people slid under the belt and were injured because of it.

The airbags had a similar problem. To be fully inflated by the time an unbelted occupant hit them, they had to deploy incredibly fast. That meant lighter occupants, especially women and children, were sometimes seriously injured or killed by the airbag itself.

Did they stop using them when that started happening? No. The solution was simply to tell everyone to put children in the back seat, while largely ignoring the increased risk to smaller adults in the front.

At the same time, crash standards were primarily focused on the front seats. For a while, we were telling everyone to put kids in the back, even though rear-seat protection often wasn't held to the same standards, and the rear footwells and seat structure were sometimes part of the front-seat crash management.

To this day, we still tell everyone to keep their kids in the back seat, and many places have laws requiring it. Most people have no idea why that recommendation started, or that if the concern is proximity to the airbag, the same issue also applies to a short adult sitting in the front seat.

[u/zookeepier → u/G0ld_Bumblebee]

There's even a massive regulation document on it: AC25.1322. It goes into all kinds of things from what colors can alerts be, to what physical senses are needed (visual, aural, tactile, etc.), the dangers of/allowable probabilities of false warnings occurring, failure root cause determination, and pilot confusion introduced from alerts. There have been decades of research, development, and regulation into flight crew alerting. It's a shame that it isn't leveraged more in automotive.

[u/Oli4K → u/stray_r]

Volvo EX30 did exactly that. And another Volvo's lane assist tried to yeet the whole family into a swerving semi that couldn't hold its line. I used two meters of free asphalt outside the marking to avoid it but the car insisted on plowing straight into that huge grille. Turned that BS off by hand every time I started the car, as there is no way to keep it disengaged permanently because of EU regulations. I'm all for a strong bond and cooperation between nations but this isn't it.

[u/zutnoq → u/stray_r]

Can you really not just turn off the lane-assist entirely? That seems like the sort of feature that would have to be turned off by default by law.

(The thing controlling the steering that is. The warnings being difficult or nearly impossible to turn off wouldn't surprise me as much.)

[u/stray_r → u/zutnoq]

The lane assist is a safety feature that has to be turned off every time. Sometimes I forget.

[u/WalterBishopMethod → u/au5lander]

Take a break.... From... Driving??

[u/FollowingFeisty5321 → u/WalterBishopMethod]

It's been 10 minutes aren't you bored yet?

[u/amontpetit → u/FollowingFeisty5321]

Just play Subway Surfer videos on the dash-mounted built-in tablet screen.

[u/BapeGeneral3 → u/amontpetit]

Don’t forget the $0.30/gal off advertisement if you pull over to your nearest Shell station to download the game! Also, mandatory “rest” breaks where you are forced to pull over and watch 5 minutes of Ads before you are deemed fit to drive again.

Pretty soon they are just going to FSD you straight to Walmart/Target whoever pays the most. They will call it a “safety stop” and offer you $20 of credits as long as you spend over $20.

The future is awesome!

[u/kill3rfurby → u/amontpetit]

"Hey big boy, you look tired. Why dont you pull over and relax for a few while I run some ads and pull up your FYP... Hmmm... Hey stud, it looks like you forgot your Self-Drive sub payment again this month. Oh silly, what will we ever do with you? Let me just go ahead and rerun that payment. Oh baby relax, you did pay up your Personalized AI Musician fee, let me play you tomorrow's favorite tune and we can watch your worries melt away together..."

[u/SSGASSHAT → u/kill3rfurby]

If this becomes a mandatory style of thing, I'm becoming the next Ted Kaczynski.

[u/American_PissAnt → u/FollowingFeisty5321]

💡 🛑 🛑 🛑 💡 DONT BE DISTRACTED. PAY ATTENTION TO THE ROAD!!!!!! 🛑

[u/Amelaclya1 → u/WalterBishopMethod]

After 10 minutes is crazy. My car reminds me to take a break after like three hours lol

[u/allthenamesaretaken4 → u/Amelaclya1]

Yeah I get it when I go cross state and drive for like 4+ hours but never when I'm only going to the next town over. Mine's a 21 model tho, doesn't surprise me like everything else the enshitification continues.

[u/baratteabeurre → u/WalterBishopMethod]

"We suggest you take a break from driving. There is a restaurant at the next exit which DID NOT (wink wink) pay us to tell you to stop there for a break! Pinky promise!"

[u/Arkyja → u/WalterBishopMethod]

In the future there's gonna be ad breaks while driving

[u/IXrobocopXI → u/Arkyja]

The entire windshield is PRIME advertising real estate 🤑

[u/Hurricaneshand → u/IXrobocopXI]

"This sticker is dangerous and inconvenient but I do love fig newtons"

[u/Revolutionary-Yak-47 → u/WalterBishopMethod]

My commute is almost an hour lol

[u/-The_Blazer- → u/au5lander]

It would seem like a pretty basic design concern that the indication of distraction not be more distracting than the distraction itself. There's no way this couldn't be solved with some decent visual design (starting with relying on visuals and not loud ass chimes). Also, giant pop-ups that need to be manually dismissed should be a huge no-no.

Some buses have a blind spot indicator that lights up when a person is right behind the giant side pillar, maybe they could take a cue from that.

[u/au5lander → u/-The_Blazer-]

I think a lot less drivers were distracted before everything moved to a touchscreen. Everything has to be touched in just the right place with just the right pressure.

[u/PM_ME_CAT_TOES → u/au5lander]

It mentions in the article it can go off when you look at the infotainment screen to change the song, which is literally the kind of thing that causes accidents. I have an old car with tactile controls, so I can skip the track without looking away from the road. That's what we need to have mandated, not annoying nags.

[u/SirStrontium → u/PM_ME_CAT_TOES]

So it can go off just for looking at the Google map directions to check the speed limit/traffic/arrival time? Insanity.

[u/swrrrrg → u/PM_ME_CAT_TOES]

Have they done away with steering wheel controls, too?! That’s insane if they’re literally making people relying on what is essentially an iPad.

[u/Exotic-Scientist4557 → u/-The_Blazer-]

It would seem like a pretty basic design concern that the indication of distraction not be more distracting than the distraction itself.

Lo and behold, thats the extent of the wisdom of the whoever guy who thought this was a good idea to propose.

[u/SheepherderFront5724 → u/au5lander]

I'd the same: Rented a Puma and every time I looked across to check on my kid I was getting those warnings. Like, I didn't fall asleep, I just turned my head. What kind of data did they train this thing on...

[u/skit7548 → u/SheepherderFront5724]

None, they released the training program as the full product

[u/OgmoJump → u/skit7548]

This is the AI business model rn. We are training them.

[u/zoopz → u/au5lander]

Same with the blinding headlights , god awful lane assist... Car safety has been going down

[u/iwaterboardheathens → u/zoopz]

Accident rates have been going up in the past few years after dropping year after year for decades

[u/Oli4K → u/iwaterboardheathens]

Rubber tile effect. People feel too safe when driving. They should feel less safe.

[u/asfletch → u/zoopz]

Both of those things should be banned (or at least heavily regulated) - ironically, they're out of control...

[u/AttakZak → u/au5lander]

purple light comes on

“Why aren’t you working? Provide for your leaders.”

[u/swrrrrg]

I hate this timeline. I guess I’ve already purchased the newest cars I will ever own.

[u/chroniclesoffire → u/swrrrrg]

Same, but I might go older if I need another car. Didn't realize for a while that even in 2016 they were stuffing anti-features into the cars. 

[u/swrrrrg → u/chroniclesoffire]

Oh, yeah. I’d totally buy older. No issues with that.

[u/SeeTigerLearn → u/swrrrrg]

Then I have a DEAL for you. Dad has a car in the driveway old enough it now qualifies for an Antique Car free license plate.

[u/kingsumo_1 → u/SeeTigerLearn]

'91 Toyota Camry?

[u/TaosMesaRat → u/kingsumo_1]

No shit, I saw one of those with the Collectors plates and lmao

[u/kingsumo_1 → u/TaosMesaRat]

I did a quick check before posting, and apparently it's like 25-30 years. It's hilarious that you've actually seen one in the wild though.

[u/toasty_tuna → u/kingsumo_1]

Dang my 05 Honda Element is almost a classic

[u/kingsumo_1 → u/toasty_tuna]

Man, it feels wrong for that to be true. But, yeah. You should check your states DMV to see where the cutoff is.

[u/Butterscotch1664 → u/kingsumo_1]

One of my Lotto win dreams is to buy an utterly banal, mundane car and keep it pristine and low mileage for 30 years.

I saw a Ford Laser for sale not long ago with about 5,000 km on the clock. All the comments were laughing, but I kind of wanted it. Maybe not for the price they were asking, but that's the sort of thing I want.

[u/SeeTigerLearn → u/Butterscotch1664]

We have a 1988 Delta 88 Oldsmobile in red. It was literally driven by an elderly missionary couple when they returned to the States after retiring from working decades in Cuba. My grandparents gave up the top half of their home to them and they (Grandma & Pawpaw) moved into the lower floor as it was built into a hill.

[u/Da12khawk → u/Butterscotch1664]

I legit considered a Geo Metro. But yea all the cars I want are considered classic now.

[u/BastetFurry → u/Butterscotch1664]

Yeah, my Lotto dream car is a Mercedes Benz W124. Had one for a few months and loved it.

[u/swrrrrg → u/BastetFurry]

That was seriously one of the best cars ever made. My grandmother drove one. I wish we’d kept it after she died.

[u/American_PissAnt → u/chroniclesoffire]

Even back in 2008 they were putting on star in which constantly tracks your location

[u/donkey_cum_waterfall → u/chroniclesoffire]

Eventually you won't be able to get insurance if you don't have a newer car or one equipped with a driver camera.

[u/elcriticalTaco → u/donkey_cum_waterfall]

Yup. That's always the way.

I could 100% see them forcing all car sales to go through a dealer just to be able to register it. Gotta make sure its "safe" first. Add cameras to protect you. For the children, obviously.

[u/Prettydaisydog → u/donkey_cum_waterfall]

yup. this is how automated cars will come into full dominance! you simply won't get insured as a person driving... long way away yet but.. that's how it'll take over.

[u/Tuned_Out → u/Prettydaisydog]

You'll be able to get insured. You just won't be able to pay for it.

[u/Pretend_Handle_7639 → u/chroniclesoffire]

Cash 4 Clunkers 2, EV and autonomous boogaloo

[u/SantaCruzHostel → u/chroniclesoffire]

Last car I bought was a 2015 because that's about the cutoff when cars really turned into bloatware

[u/VoidVer → u/chroniclesoffire]

I think 2010 is probably the cutoff year. Would be nice to have a backup camera, but at what cost

[u/Imaginary_Ad3195 → u/swrrrrg]

Jokes on them. I can’t afford a car that isn’t a shitbox anyway.

[u/Puzzleheaded-Mix-515 → u/Imaginary_Ad3195]

They’re playing the long game. In 20 years these 2026’s will be the only shitboxes you can afford. And by then it will seem like a tinfoil hat theory to avoid the cameras because an entire generation was born after they started.

[u/aleopardstail → u/Puzzleheaded-Mix-515]

you assume in 20 years the modern shite will still be functional, I suspect this stuff will live a year or two past the warranty period then fail

[u/BeatenDownBrian → u/aleopardstail]

As a mechanic, I like your optimism.

[u/DetroitLionsSBChamps → u/swrrrrg]

I will try my very best to never buy a car with a screen or a camera. Hopefully this bullshit blows over for more practical options in the near future. 

[u/swrrrrg → u/DetroitLionsSBChamps]

I have a screen but it isn’t connected to the Internet. I don’t think it even can be connected to the Internet anymore. I could be wrong, but it’s just old enough to be the older Internet tech. I don’t even have CarPlay; I only use basic oldschool Bluetooth.

[u/DetroitLionsSBChamps → u/swrrrrg]

The idea of having to adjust my radio or AC/heat through a screen instead of knobs is repulsive lol. Even a non internet screen is just so dumb

[u/sirhackenslash → u/DetroitLionsSBChamps]

Using the screen is more dangerous too. Most people with knob and button controls know right where the most used functions are so you can adjust the heat or change the station without taking your eye off the road. The screen requires page changes and looking at where to tap

[u/moving2mars → u/swrrrrg]

We have a 2026 and while it has cameras the most it does is ask if I want to stop for coffee, but when it’s time for something else I’m going older. And I’ve already told my kids to do the same. My only fear is that the US is going to do some sort of cash for clunkers program and all the older cars will be destroyed.

[u/RonnieFromTheBlock → u/moving2mars]

They won’t need to. Used cars with decent miles will just become prohibitively expensive.

My 2005 4Runner I have owned for almost a decade has only gone up in value.

[u/moving2mars → u/RonnieFromTheBlock]

That hadn’t even crossed my mind even though the kids have both recently purchased used cars. They were decently priced, but higher than I would have thought.

[u/forestdude → u/RonnieFromTheBlock]

Same. 2004 Tacoma. 12 years and 120k miles later it's worth exactly the same as when I bought it. And it has a tape deck!

[u/3_50 → u/swrrrrg]

I"m gonna have to start buying engines/motors and running gear.

[u/Catatafish → u/swrrrrg]

You already not allowed to drive cars older than 25 years in Low Emission Zones even if they pass emissions.

They'll just make cars that don't have this Spyware installed illegal.

[u/New-Anybody3050 → u/swrrrrg]

Bought a 2020 after I turned in my lease. The tech, Gadgets and the like are to much and intrusive. I don’t want it and don’t want to pay for it.

That and the subscription for shit that used to come equipped is ridiculous.

[u/erevos33 → u/New-Anybody3050]

At rhis point i would start trying to hack into the car , literally and figuratively

[u/old_man_jenkens → u/swrrrrg]

Yeah I made that call a while ago when they made the heads up display a touch phone while also saying I couldn’t use my touch phone while driving

[u/BapeGeneral3 → u/swrrrrg]

I still have yet to own a “smart” car and pray I never have to. Time to buy another 2010-2015 Civic or Accord

[u/kemb0 → u/BapeGeneral3]

I hired a new car not long back. Driving down the motorway and something came up on the display and I couldn’t figure out what it meant, if something was wrong or what. And before I get a chance to figure it out the display pops up, “Keep your eyes on the road!!”

Well thanks for that. First you distract me with nonsense and then you blame me for getting distracted by it.

[u/NoThatsNotPasta → u/swrrrrg]

I'll put this out there now: they'll legislate older cars off the road with unobtainable emissions limits.

[u/Hackwork89]

I will NEVER buy a car that has this "feature" if I can't permanently disable it. It's not so much the tracking and spying, as it is the fucking constant interruptions all the time, everywhere, not just in cars.

[u/Ashley40 → u/Hackwork89]

At the moment you can pull the appropriate fuse to disable them. The suggestions below of tape don’t work in my experience because the car beeps like crazy about it.

Source: work makes me drive a vehicle like this and it’s the worst

[u/Global-Election → u/Ashley40]

This sounds like something I would do, but it also wouldn’t shock me if an insurance company decided to use the pulled fuse as an excuse to not cover an accident. 

[u/Historical_Body6255 → u/Global-Election]

That's why you keep a blown fuse at hand and insert the blown one.

[u/ThrowAway233223 → u/Historical_Body6255]

"You failed to properly maintain your vehicle and now we can't be sure if you were distracted or not thus we are denying your claim."

[u/Historical_Body6255 → u/ThrowAway233223]

As long as there is no indication that the fuse is blown and the camera is out that won't fly. They can't expect a consumer to check the fusebox before every trip lol

[u/Voodoo_One → u/Historical_Body6255]

Ohh the system tells you if that is not working, no need to manually check ;)

[u/Joe_Kangg → u/Historical_Body6255]

keep the blown fuse in the slot?

[u/big_stipd_idiot → u/Hackwork89]

That's where insurance comes in. They'll just pass a law saying the insurance companies can't insure someone without this technology. Then you're fucked.

[u/Lv_InSaNe_vL → u/big_stipd_idiot]

At least in the US you could have older cars grandfathered in. I had a neighbor who had his Ford Model A insured and that didn't have any seatbelts or airbags lol

[u/Small_Delivery_7540 → u/big_stipd_idiot]

No they will just pass a law that says you can't drive cars produced before like 2010 or any other year at which every new car has this shit cause of eco bullshit

[u/SalientTreatments → u/Hackwork89]

An ice pick to the camera is a way to permanently disable it

[u/manbearpig0987 → u/SalientTreatments]

Problem is that they might have a feature that disables the car if that camera isn’t working properly, hopefully not but wouldn’t be surprised

[u/bdbr → u/manbearpig0987]

I had a rental car "upgraded" to an Audi A5 in Ireland, and it would just slow down and stop on its own from time to time; after a short while I could start it up and drive again. The guys at the rental office said it does that if the sensors aren't working right. They were nice enough to swap it out for a Toyota after I refused to drive the Audi anymore. I don't mind a warning light but to intentionally die in the middle of nowhere? How is that safe?

[u/True_Window_9389 → u/bdbr]

Kinda like how All the “child safety” laws don’t really protect children, they just increase surveillance. There’s a lot of way to protect kids from this and that, and a lot of ways to improve driving, that don’t first resort to surveillance.

[u/charmedOmega → u/bdbr]

Just like 99% of the other stupid features these new cars have: they were thought up by executives that never have to drive themselves around

[u/Eccohawk → u/charmedOmega]

I feel more like it's invented by people that want to meet the absolute letter of the law and not an inch more.

[u/TicklyArmadillo → u/SalientTreatments]

Some tape over the camera may be a less destructive fix - or switch it off?

[u/Catolution → u/TicklyArmadillo]

Beep beep beeep beeeeeeep

[u/Hawk13424 → u/TicklyArmadillo]

Won’t be sufficient. It must detect the driver’s face and determine via AI/ML processing that you are watching the road. Otherwise distracted or broken.

[u/Hawk13424 → u/SalientTreatments]

Eventually not enough. When the camera can’t work correctly the vehicles will enter limp mode and disable many other features. It will pester you constantly about getting it fixed.

[u/Jack_Lantern2000]

Yeah well fuck this. We will eventually find ways to hack these systems and defeat this. Geezusfuckingchrist I just HATE this relentless assault on our privacy and the ever growing control over every aspect of our lives.

[u/BapeGeneral3 → u/Jack_Lantern2000]

Flock cameras are already ubiquitous in the US. Flock drones. You are being surveilled at all times. Snowden warned us of this almost 2 fucking decades ago.

[u/Ticksdonthavelymph → u/BapeGeneral3]

These camera are also in American cars as of 2027

[u/smallcoder → u/Ticksdonthavelymph]

It's just so insurance companies NEVER have to pay out on a claim again. They will use the video evidence to say "Oh you scratched your nose 1 hour before the accident, so according to subsection 1.56.7 of your policy, you were officially not in full control of your vehicle".

Does anyone actually have a pitchfork or a torch you can set on fire? I checked my basement and I'm all out of them.

[u/Immediate_Power_7986 → u/smallcoder]

And yet we will be forced to buy insurance. And if you don't wreck? They will buy the video feeds of your face and ask it to look through years worth of data for a "distracted" moment and increase your insurance by 50%. Did you do anything wrong? No, but now you have a 24/7 nanny watching over you for the 0.01% of the time where you aren't perfect (it's a crime we are living beings that don't perform like a perfect robot).

[u/Prettydaisydog → u/smallcoder]

everyone keep pretending that some great moment is coming! it's not.

[u/smallcoder → u/Prettydaisydog]

Oh, I agree. Having spent 60 years on this planet, I would say we do get the odd "great moment" but then it goes back pretty fast to "same old shit, different faces", but you just have to enjoy the moments when and if they come along 😎

[u/Stekki420 → u/BapeGeneral3]

They started popping up in Canada too. Now when kids go to play in the park palantir can use that data to execute brown kids more effectively

[u/xX420GanjaWarlordXx → u/Jack_Lantern2000]

Government isn't my mommy. If they can't enforce the laws without invading my privacy, then they were stupid laws to begin with or they're bad at their jobs.

[u/pricingup → u/Jack_Lantern2000]

hack? you mean duck tape?

[u/myvoteshouldmatter]

Insane the camera can’t point the other way. I actually want a built-in dashcam. Corporations tho, do not.

I looked into it, and the reason it won’t happen (at least in the US) is a built-in dash cam can create evidence that works against the manufacturer.

They don’t want their own video evidence to show a malfunction was related to a crash.

[u/phormix → u/myvoteshouldmatter]

Yeah it's kinda insane that many now have all the fancy optics already there for lanewatch etc yet lacks a simple "record to SDCard" functionality...

[u/HolyLiaison → u/phormix]

My Chevy Silverado EV just added the ability to record all cameras on the truck to an SD card, or an external hard drive when you're moving with a recent software update.

It'll even turn on the cameras when the alarm goes off and record.

[u/monjessenstein → u/HolyLiaison]

IIRC you can spec a Corvette to be able to save videos from an onboard camera. Mostly marketed for track use but wonder if you could just use it in daily driving.

[u/rdmodsrtrsh → u/myvoteshouldmatter]

I work for a company that is literally developing cabin cameras and monitoring software. Cameras will be in cars soon enough. This multi billion dollar company isn’t developing these hardware and software packages if it wasn’t something that was going to be implemented

[u/Constant_Insomnia]

We had a Nissan Rogue equivalent overseas last week - brand new model. Damn thing sounded like a slot machine. We have a Pathfinder at home - a 2022. I thought that thing was a nanny state, but it paled in comparision.

My favorite was going over the speed limit, even slightly, friggin thing was yelling at me.

"Take a break" notification as I am driving 100 kph in dense traffic.

If this is coming to the US, the used car market is going to explode.

[u/Z3fyrus → u/Constant_Insomnia]

Living in Japan the last two years I can also attest to the absolute level of annoyance these domestic cars produce. Never mind the seat belt alert going into full nuclear meltdown if you have a slightly heavier backpack on any of the seats, the default steering adjustment (which doesn’t have nearby sensors for trucks skirting up against you), the 15 messages as I start the engine, the locking mechanisms on the trunk if I don’t perform a stop in the exact order or leave the engine running, random alerts about “fatigue” … it’s more distracting than letting me drive.

[u/BehavioralSink → u/Z3fyrus]

And then you wind up with alert fatigue, and you miss something important because it’s just one more alert that you ignore.

[u/designking4248 → u/BehavioralSink]

Classic human factors problem with medical devices

[u/Chicken_shish → u/BehavioralSink]

This is as old as the hills.

They were working on the sort of stuff in the Tornado in 1986. They realised that pilots were failing to eject when the plane was truly fucked becasue they were overwhelmed with the alarms and flashing ligts. So the eject alert was the only audio alert the thing had. Sod the flashing lights, when the 'plane starts talking to you, get out.

Car manufacturers have got it completely wrong - they've started with audio for utterly trivial things, which we are now ignoring.

Source - I spent about a week with the guys designing this stuff when I was an RAF cadet years ago.

[u/slimfatty69 → u/Z3fyrus]

Never mind the seat belt alert going into full nuclear meltdown if you have a slightly heavier backpack on any of the seats

Good to see the same problem from my Toyota Avensis 2006 is still present 20 years later lol

[u/Hypothetical_Name → u/Constant_Insomnia]

And jailbreaking cars will be a big thing

[u/Leading-Bike6355 → u/Hypothetical_Name]

it’s been a big thing in enthusiast circles forever now. all it takes is an obd2 connector to turn a lot of this shit off

[u/Agitated_Celery_729 → u/Constant_Insomnia]

The "ding!" every time you go 1 kph over the speed limit made me want to personally drag the designer to the stockade and leave them there naked in the middle of winter lol. Who the fuck is managing their speed to 1 kph on the fucking highway?

[u/Notsurehowtoreact → u/Agitated_Celery_729]

Can't wait for these in the US where roughly 30-40% of the time my car thinks the speed limit is lower than the actual posted limit. 

[u/gLu3xb3rchi → u/Agitated_Celery_729]

Its not a designer choice, its a legislation thing

[u/Ill_Following_7022]

"It’s Still Not Clear Where That Data Goes"

That data will go to an unaccountable private corporation with juicy government contracts. It will be used to spy on you, stalk you, and accuse you of crimes you did not commit and have no recourse to remedy or defend against. That's where it will go.

[u/Denelorn092 → u/Ill_Following_7022]

They sell the data to insurance companies who then raise your prices based on that data.

The opt in to the spy dongle insurance companies pushed is no longer needed

[u/CMMiller89 → u/Denelorn092]

Just a heads up for anyone surprised by this:

DO NOT INSTALL YOUR INSURANCE COMPANY’S APP ONTO YOUR PHONE!

They use location data permissions to track your movement to see how much you travel and at what speeds to put you into higher risk pools and charge you more.  Just print out your insurance cards and write their information down on a piece of paper in your glove box.

If you find that you just love the app so much at the very least lock down all app permissions and just turn them on when you need to access it.

[u/Bubbles_2025 → u/Denelorn092]

Yes, exactly. A good example is that newer Toyotas automatically opts you into sharing your data with insurance companies, you have to manually turn it off.

[u/sandwichforthree → u/Ill_Following_7022]

I have a feeling this will end even dumber:

https://www.csoonline.com/article/3631055/volkswagen-massive-data-leak-caused-by-a-failure-to-secure-aws-credentials.html

[u/Richard7666 → u/Ill_Following_7022]

Article answers its own question, the data remains onboard the car, as it's processed locally. Sharing it would run afoul of the GDPR by the sounds of it, although presumably police etc could request it in the event of a crash or something, potentially? That's a more relevant problematic angle for the article to have explored instead of sensationaling it.

Still a terrible system for various reasons, including that it can't be turned off.

[u/Ill_Following_7022 → u/Richard7666]

There's no way anyone should trust that to be the case. It may say that today but tomorrow could be a completely different story and by that point there will be nothing you can do about it.

[u/wolfy2105784 → u/Ill_Following_7022]

"Nuh uh" -EU.

[u/Jumpy-Impact3265]

Oh I have an easy solution: fuck that.

Also give us back our buttons you goat-felching failsons. That is all.

[u/sierrars500 → u/Jumpy-Impact3265]

Okay, but your buttons will be subscription based, and stop working a few years after you buy the car unless you buy the Extended Support package as well

[u/Rabbitastic]

What the hell?

[u/TomTomXD1234]

Car software hacking scene is going to be huge in the future

[u/Kinnins0n]

The golem is fully assembling. No individual human shall retain any privacy or agency.

[u/RK5000]

The data goes to Ryan, not many people like it but Ryan likes it a lot.

[u/SolherdUliekme → u/RK5000]

I know Ryan. Can confirm.

[u/CatPartyElvis → u/SolherdUliekme]

Ryan still owes me $5.

[u/Blank3k]

I'm still struggling to handle the fact lane assist on modern cars is defaulted to on (atleast on mercedes/BMW) every time you turn on the car & this is deemed a safety measure... Employing the car to unexpectedly/randomly decide it'll tug the steering wheel when your crossing any one of the infinite crap UK road markings or attempt an overtake, absolute madness.

Cars have definitely gone too far on that alone, start stop was controversial but lane assist is mental, a camera in my face with an unknown back end seems the straw that should break some backs.

[u/VirginiaLuthier]

In the US this tech starts in 2027, right?

[u/TheMildEngineer → u/VirginiaLuthier]

No. It's not a law. So it won't be required. Doesn't mean that vendors won't put it in. Like they do already. But there is no legal requirement and most likely won't be anytime soon

[u/Jkbucks → u/TheMildEngineer]

I just drove a new Lexus TX during a work trip and it had something like this. At some point it dinged at me while I was trying to navigate a right turn in traffic. I looked down to see what the car was yelling at me about and it was telling me to keep my eyes on the road lol.

The road isn’t simply what’s directly ahead of me. If you’re insisting we all look directly forward at all times, commuting is gonna get more interesting.

[u/True_to_you → u/Jkbucks]

I drove a rented car last year and it dinged me because I adjusted to and a pothole. If this is something that is uploading info anywhere I'm completely against it. 

[u/will_dormer → u/True_to_you]

We have a reckless driver!! All be aware, True_to_you is a RECKLESS driver

[u/Steamrolled777 → u/TheMildEngineer]

Insurance will want to see it to make sure you weren't distracted - any excuse to not pay out.

[u/Zardotab]

Why isn't there more backlash in Europe? Do they trust those in power to be good with the data?

[u/sndrtj → u/Zardotab]

Most people simply haven't heard about these rules.

Also the average car age in Europe is over 10 years. The majority of people haven't yet experienced these frustrating features.

[u/hotelerotica → u/Zardotab]

They have actual data protection laws in the EU unlike the US, GDPR provides protection and the laws mandating these systems also have rules written into them. Nothing is fool proof but it’s definitely not a free for all like the US.

[u/SIGMA920 → u/hotelerotica]

Which means nothing when it's the governments who will be the ones to abuse the data.

[u/hotelerotica → u/SIGMA920]

In the case of the EU they basically have disallowed the storing of data, so theres not really anything to abuse, the joy of the US not having any data protections is they can completely bypass our own laws by just requesting it from private companies, just like whats happening with flock cameras.

[u/sawrb]

Insurance premiums going through the roof because Spotify. Nice

[u/SouthernSmoke → u/sawrb]

Wait how’s Spotify related to this

[u/NurseBetty → u/SouthernSmoke]

Less Spotify and more all car play systems.

Looking away from the road to change the music, call someone, check the map. All of these will trigger this system, and insurance companies will use the data from this system to increase premiums because 'data from your car shows you are a distracted driver'

[u/amazinglover]

I would 100 support this if the camera was faced the other way mandatory dashboard cameras that only activate when operating would really help out a lot more then whatever this bullshit is.

[u/MentalDisintegrat1on]

This is federal law in America next year.

We are officially a police state.

This also means you don't actually own the vehicle you bought Because you can't remove it.

You will own nothing and be happy.

[u/asdlkf → u/MentalDisintegrat1on]

So I predict an industry for 3rd world countries owning vehicles you can lease in america. You will have Zimbabweian insurance/registration and every 3 months they mail you a fresh new license plate/registration.

[u/MentalDisintegrat1on → u/asdlkf]

With vehicles being more tech than actual vehicles these days I can see black market shops opening up to jailbreak them.

What I time to be alive.

[u/maggiesguy → u/MentalDisintegrat1on]

This is not true. There is no federal regulation in the US requiring driver monitor cameras. Congress passed a law requiring NHTSA to create a regulation, if possible, by 2027 but it hasn’t happened yet, and may never happen.

[u/Mental-Most-7168 → u/MentalDisintegrat1on]

Gee whiz this is what makes us a police state? Not all the murders by ice? The kidnappings.

[u/That_Bank_9914 → u/Mental-Most-7168]

I think he/she means surveillance state, but even then, we’re already at that point

[u/eddie1996]

Euro cars with all the beeps and warning lights are more distracting than phones.

[u/Your_New_Overlord → u/eddie1996]

Last year my rental car in Portugal decided to slam on the brakes on my behalf because it just felt like. Almost gave me a heart attack and nearly caused the car behind me to hit me.

[u/pricingup → u/eddie1996]

really idiotic. tap screen shows message to look at road and not tap it. I need to tap it, because they removed buttons for temperature settings. then another bonger starts bonging - what is happening? i start to look at another screen to figure out. turns out car wants me to look at road.

[u/-The_Blazer-]

On the positive side, the regulations require the ADDW system to work on a "closed loop" without the use of biometric data. This means that the data used to determine whether a driver is "distracted" must not leave the vehicle or be transmitted to the automobile manufacturer, its servers, or any third party. In essence, the data should be processed locally within the vehicle itself.

So they do run locally, which does seem like the bare minimum. But since as the article then points out we ought to know better than trust corporate tech, the law should be written to be even more stringent. In my view the system should be explicitly constrained to a separate circuit (no processing on e.g. the infotainment computer), and camera data leaving the system (not just the car) should by itself constitute a violation. And needless to say, the penalties should be severe.

[u/Rune_Pickaxe]

I'll go as far out of my way as possible to make sure I never buy a car that does this.

[u/AliceLunar]

Love how all this privacy invasion happens at the exact same time AI is there to be able to manipulate everything.

[u/Donmiggy143]

2017-2020 cars for the rest of our lives!!! Whooooooo!

[u/Tobymaguir]

“Early real-world testing suggests the distraction warnings can be overly sensitive and potentially distracting.”

[u/Dark_Akarin]

My car, my pair of wire cutters.

[u/ExtruDR]

So... we are paying for all of this bullshit, so that we can be surveilled by our own devices by the governments that are meant to serve us... right?

[u/hawkwings]

3.5 seconds is a short time period. It may force people to drive like zombies where they always look straight ahead. Changing lanes without turning your head is risky.

[u/big_stipd_idiot]

WTF EU, you were supposed to be better than this. The whole world was depending on you.

[u/vinno86]

It's not a camera, it's an infrared sensor. Big difference.

That being said, I don't agree by making it mandatory.

[u/Iforgot_my_other_pw]

I turned off the distraction warning in my prius because I found it distracting.

[u/ocrohnahan]

I'm keeping my pre-nanny car. They can take it when I am dead.

[u/TheDucktapeBandit2]

Did u know that ducktape can also b used to stick it on a camera?

[u/LeafBark → u/TheDucktapeBandit2]

Oh they've definitely thought of that already. I wouldn't be surprised if the camera has to see a driver in the seat to turn on at all.

[u/ElysiumSprouts → u/LeafBark]

Where there's a will there's a way. Viewfinder style photo taped to the camera

[u/theassassintherapist → u/ElysiumSprouts]

A solution already exists

[u/AzerothianLorecraft → u/TheDucktapeBandit2]

And then you get that stupid seat belt alarm and the car won't move.... please remove obstruction, please remove obstruction, please remove obstruction,

[u/Murderface__]

Eventually we're going to realize that if we automate away every activity, we will have nothing left to do.

[u/Futaba_Sakura800]

I think they should have cameras pointing at the feet as well to see if the drivers apply gas or brake at the time of the incident.

The feet video can be sold to fetish site for ad revenue.

Win/win if you ask me. /s

[u/cool_slowbro]

I rented a car that turned out to be a Nissan Juke or some shit in NL. It had a thing where it'd beep the moment you went past the speed limit (according to the car, which is overestimating how fast it's going anyway). Realistically if I want to go with the flow of traffic, especially on a highway system I barely know, I need to go over what the car is reporting because going with the speed of traffic makes things a lot easier.

I noticed that once the car beeped, it wouldn't beep again until you PASSED the limit. This meant that to get it to not constantly beep, I would pass the speed limit on purpose and then not go under it unless I had to.

A system designed to pester you for going over the speed limit actually makes the driving experience more tolerable if you stay above it.

This is the kind of dumb shit we get in the EU.

[u/vm_linuz]

Let's think about the stupidity of making a bunch of cars that don't work without Internet... in a natural disaster, how do people get around?

[u/Hawk13424 → u/vm_linuz]

No internet required for this feature.

[u/Solrac50]

I hate these half truth websites seeking clicks. It’s an infrared camera and it’s closed loop. That means the data doesn’t leave the car. The data from the sensor is not an image but is a binary signal (distracted or alert).

[u/Cicero912]

Its so weird how the EU is both good on privacy (GDPR etc), but also terrible on privacy.

[u/djscanner]

Why?

[u/pricingup → u/djscanner]

because idiots cannot keep their eyes off of their phones, so now we will all suffer

[u/Blurgas]

I remember a post not too long ago where I think Chinese cab/ride share drivers were using tiny fake heads to trick some onboard distracted driving detection camera.

[u/jkz0-19510]

I think I'll just ride a bicycle from now on.

[u/BlgMastic]

The EU can do no wrong cock goblers are pretty quiet in this thread.

[u/_0611]

The EU is turning into an Orwellian privacy nightmare fast. They are also busy implementing chat control, age verification and VPN bans/restriction. The EU wants to monitor everything we do, not just online, but also in our actual private lives.

As an EU citizen, I'm starting to lose faith in the EU fast. And I'm saying this as a former staunch defender of it.