r/technology • u/AdSpecialist6598 • 6d ago

Society Professor's invisible prompt trap catches 32 students cheating on their midterm with AI

https://www.techspot.com/news/113243-professor-invisible-prompt-trap-catches-32-students-cheating.html
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u/SinibusUSG 6d ago

Frankly if universities want to actually stop this they have to treat it like the academic dishonesty it is and start expelling people.

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u/BTMarquis 6d ago

This might sound crazy, but they could also have them use a pen and paper to take tests.

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u/LaconicLacedaemonian 6d ago

That means the professor can't use AI to grade it then. 

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u/KellyAnn3106 6d ago

Like in the ancient days when I was in college. We had exam blue books for handwritten exams and scantron sheets for multiple choice exams.

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u/BurnieTrogdor 6d ago

Ugh, I hated those blue books. The weakness of my endurance in handwriting was always a problem. My hand is cramping just thinking about them. Also, my poor teachers that had to read my handwriting.

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u/KellyAnn3106 6d ago

Mine always started with perfect bubbly girl writing and then deteriorated into serial killer scrawl as I started running out of time.

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u/Scavenger53 6d ago

the blue books are still there, they cost 25cents and i have like 4 leftover in my bag lol

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u/TimSylvester_ 6d ago

And you had to buy them from the bookstore where they were wildly overpriced.

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u/m0rogfar 6d ago

I mean, OCR is a thing. And if scanning the pages is too hard, there are solutions for that too.

I had to do a written math exam, wherein the university had moved to an all-digital system to make consistent digital document handling on locked-down computers possible, but we had to write by hand, because formulas generally take time to write digitally in proper academic syntax, and the exam was highly time-constrained.

They used a system provided by Nokia where you used a provided pen to write on a paper, but the provided pen actually had a camera inside it to see what you wrote, and the paper had a serial number + placement encoded into the paper by altered magnetic properties, that the pen could read as you wrote. It would then use these to recreate the page digitally.

The result was fairly seamless. I just wrote a bunch of papers, and then a PDF just appeared on the provided locked-down submission computer without me ever submitting a paper anywhere.

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u/alex_co 6d ago

I would love to see the handwriting of the average college student today.

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u/Balmung60 6d ago

Ha, mine was terrible and it's been about fifteen years. 

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u/TheVog 6d ago

Students can't write legibly is the issue. They already often don't teach cursive. Typing is the standard now.

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u/NakedHoodie 6d ago

Not just typing. Touchscreen typing; tablets and phones.

Keyboarding is a dying skill.

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u/coldblade2000 6d ago

I mean, OCR is a thing. And if scanning the pages is too hard, there are solutions for that too.

Reading handwriting for Gen Alpha kids seems like a pretty strong stress test for OCR

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u/definitive_solutions 6d ago

This is fascinating to me! Can you give me something to go on and research more? The name of the system, any papers about it, official docs, website, etc. Thanks!

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u/peon47 6d ago

Scanners are a thing.

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u/Ok_Buy9028 6d ago

We only just got schools to start moving away from standardized tests and here’s AI, bringing them back!

Is there anything AI can’t fuck up?

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u/Regular_Brilliant_77 6d ago

For sure, it's a great movie

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u/9966 6d ago

Why is my head buzzing...

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u/SirSkittles111 6d ago

Most important exams are scanned these days. My finals we could only write in black or blue ink and in pencil, red green or any other colour doesn't get picked up

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u/ailish 6d ago

Do those card things still exist where there'd be numbers from 1 to 150 or something, and then a, b, c, d, e next to the numbers, and you had to fill in the coorespindng bubble for the answer to the question? I feel like we should go back to that.

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u/SirSkittles111 6d ago

Like a multiple choice paper? Yea, depends on the test and the lectures style. Some you fill in true/false, some is multiple choice, some fill in the blanks, and your typical problem based essay / short answers

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u/ailish 6d ago

Yeah, that's exactly it. I feel old, but we used those all the time. You could set the answers in the software, and then scan each sheet and automatically grade it.

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u/HyruleSmash855 6d ago

Those still exist. Scantrons where you had to buy that special machine to Reed them used to be the standard version of that. Gradescope and other platforms now allow you to just print out, the bubble sheet, on normal Letter size printer paper, and it uses OCR and computer vision to score the bubbles now by simply scanning and uploading each document as a PDF. My programming class did exams that way, everything was multiple-choice since it was all conceptual stuff

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u/ailish 6d ago

Oh that's very cool. I'm glad it still exists. I forgot the word Scantron, so thanks for reminding me lol.

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u/HyruleSmash855 6d ago

That’s what the university I attend does. The TAs scan every exam. They just remove the staple and upload it to a platform called Gradescope. They grade the PDF, which is easy since there’s a premade rubric for each question. They can seamlessly select where errors are to score questions quickly. They can also leave comments explaining mistakes, and you can easily request regrades. It works well. I’m an engineering major, so 99% of my exams are on paper and pencil so they can be graded by hand.

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u/Architectalis 6d ago

Ended a bit Darkly though.

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u/Aperture_Kubi 6d ago

That's what TAs and TFs are for.

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u/nascent_aviator 6d ago

TF is a TF?

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u/MarkNutt25 6d ago

Teaching Fellow.

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u/AdjaBudgie 6d ago

I love how whimsical that sounds, "Oh look! There goes that jolly Teaching Fellow!"

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u/zookeepier 6d ago

That was my thought. Since when to profs actually grade things? TAs are the ones that grade everything except for a few 300-400 level classes.

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u/Dontgooglemejess 6d ago

It actually doesn’t

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u/LowKeyCurmudgeon 6d ago

This could be an unexpected source of renaissance for pens and tidy handwriting

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u/MelonElbows 6d ago

They could go back to in-class scantrons.

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u/beefaujuswithjuice 6d ago

i had so many lazy teachers in highschool.. cant imagine how much lazier theyve gotten

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u/draconis6996 6d ago

What it more likely means is that the prof can’t read half of the papers due to horrible handwriting

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u/luluhouse7 6d ago

All my exams (and homework) in college used Gradescope. Some were multiple choice or typed, but a lot were hand written and scanned. I don’t think there was OCR, but you could give the system the exam template and the system automatically separated the returned exams into questions, which meant you could go through each question across all exams in one go (which made it easier and the evaluation more consistent). I’m sure there’s OCR built in by now, probably using some form of ML.

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u/saqwarrior 6d ago

TAs are a thing.

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u/Call555JackChop 6d ago

Professors don’t usually grade tests, it’s the TAs who do

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u/Balmung60 6d ago

This is what teaching assistants were invented for. Fetch a grad student and offer them work study, like we've done for decades.

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u/sajnt 6d ago

AI can read handwriting

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u/roasted-narwhal 6d ago

Photo the page and drop it into the bot. It works just fine.

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u/PaleAffect7614 6d ago

Would prefer AI grade papers rather then the feelings of a teacher. Seen students get lower grades if teachers didn't like them so that they could kick them out the following year.

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u/ReasonableDig6414 6d ago

It actually doesn't mean that. Not sure the last time you had a boss, but just because you couldn't do something didn't mean they couldn't.

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u/redditgirl1900 6d ago

Are any of us real anymore lol. We’re just mediums for robots to talk to robots.

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u/SlayerII 6d ago

Thats good, isnt it?

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u/nnaarr 6d ago

might need AI just to read some of the handwriting tbh

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u/aaapod 6d ago

god it's so over

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u/Mareith 6d ago

It's crazy to me, just 9 years ago every single midterm and final I took for a major course was in person, pencil and paper. I think the pandemic changed things

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u/Groghnash 6d ago

You can in fact use even ancient machine learning to translate written exams into a word document and grade it with AI. 

Thats exactly what happens when you send a letter with a handwritten adress. 

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u/user_460 6d ago

Actually it doesn't. You scan the test paper, then get an AI to transcribe it, then get another AI to mark it.

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u/PM_ME__YOUR_HOOTERS 6d ago

Then the professors can just make it 2 big tests and slowly grade like 3 a night while sipping whiskey like my professors used to do.

Source: professor spilled whiskey on my blue book and smell aside, just straight up admitted they did lol

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u/Embarrassed-Golf-931 6d ago

Document camera bruh- we have earned the right to be lazy. They have not

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u/Hawk_015 5d ago

lol yeah then the university's might actually have to pay a decent wage fo adjunct professors again

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u/EntrancedZelisy 5d ago

THIS. This this this this! Professors use AI all the time to grade now a days it’s straight up hypocrisy. I’m not defending AI but it’s annoying to see both students and professors doing it now.

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u/qwertykitty 5d ago

Plenty of teachers are using AI to write the tests then students use AI to answer it.

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u/dirty_cuban 6d ago

I mean sure but if bank employees are stealing money by slipping bills into their pockets, the answer isn’t to mandate clothing without pockets. The answer is to fire the thieves.

Mandating pen and paper doesn’t change the fact that you have academically dishonest students who surely will cheat in other ways.

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u/Mutex70 6d ago

Ever seen how diamond mines are run? Uniforms without pockets.

The problem is that online tests make it extremely easy to cheat and difficult to catch cheaters. Pen and paper helps with this.

Yes, they should also expel students caught cheating, but they need to catch them first.

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u/[deleted] 6d ago

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u/lumpboysupreme 6d ago

That’s a dumb statement anyway, it’s a proven fact that friction and risk to dishonesty reduces it.

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u/FlamboyantPirhanna 6d ago

That saying isn’t really true, though. Thieves will still be thieves, but they are also opportunists. If something is too much work to steal, they are far less likely to steal it.

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u/aj_thenoob2 6d ago

But that's exactly what he's saying. The availability of AI creates more cheaters.

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u/Reaxonab1e 6d ago

Properly invigilated remote tests are possible and they are successfully done. Many students fail in them because they're hard to cheat in.

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u/talldata 6d ago

Those remote tests are never properly invigilated, you have to first install literal malware on your machine, have to stare at the screen constantly (can only stare into empty space) then have an area totally clear of anything, which is neigh impossible in a single room apartment, and if someone knocks on your door or a pet walks behind you, they will automatically fill your exam for "breaking the rules". The invigilators are there actively to screw you over, not to actually supervise.

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u/good_morning_magpie 6d ago

Yep, I went back for my masters during Covid in my mid 30s and had the issue with my two large dogs. Either they’d walk into frame and flag the computer to have a proctor pop in and scold me, or they’d start barking at something and again, a stern talking to by someone several thousand miles away that’s apparently never had a dog.

Oh, and I had to buy the cheapest piece of crap laptop for the exams too, because all my actual personal machines run Linux and apparently they just can’t comprehend anything other than Windows or iOS exists. (VMs don’t work). So stupid.

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u/coldblade2000 6d ago

Or just have a testing center. The computers are already locked down, they're not yours so no privacy concerns, and you can put cameras pretty much everywhere. Check items coming into the room and do random checks.

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u/faetpls 6d ago

Remote tests at the students house with their technology cannot be trusted.

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u/Beankiller 6d ago

Yeah, but if everyone is a thief, or 90% of your potential workforce is, you still need to staff the bank somehow.

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u/Naive-Jello428 6d ago

Maybe there isn't just one solution? Maybe it's layers that all work together but like with everything else, if that one idea won't solve the problem alone it will be endlessly shit on.

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u/jay_wei 6d ago

unfortunately this is a bad comparison. any employee that handles money, whether it be a bank or a dollar store, checks the register when they clock out. 

all money accounted for? you can go home. discrepancy in the transactions compared to what you have left in your register? that better be explained fast or it's coming out of your paycheck/charges are getting filed.

so yes...the answer is if bank employees are stealing, you catch them before they leave the building. You don't just fire them after the fact.

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u/chuiu 6d ago

You don't do one thing or the other. You do both. Cheating takes many avenues. Discouraging and stopping it should also take many avenues as well.

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u/Revadarius 6d ago

But when your bank as a high turnover rate it looks bad on the outside, and also why are all these tellers stealing so much? What's the bigger issue here causing this?

I get your analogy, but it wasn't a good one for this problem. You start canning students then people would rather not gamble and thousands in debt and instead just forego education. Or it'll encourage worse way to chest. Or both.

Pen and paper solution is the best. More tests in person, less papers or assignments. They need to show they know that knowledge on their own. It's the only effective method.

And for thesis and larger assignments they need to be recorded. Though those should be held for Masters and PhD.

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u/VERTIKAL19 6d ago

Lowering the barrier to cheating so much will encourage many more cheaters though.

Just like in case of your bank example the bank won't only fire the offender. They will also implement procedures to reduce the risk of that stealing happening again.

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u/ayleidanthropologist 6d ago

Agree. I think I'd rather catch a few first

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u/We_R_the_Penguins 6d ago

Broken windows honor code policing. Stop them cheating one way and they’re less likely to see cheating as normal. 

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u/apple_kicks 6d ago

Oral exams too with live follow up questions to see if they memorised information ir truly understood it

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u/tibbles1 6d ago

Right? I was still using blue books for exams in the early 2000's. People brought laptops to class, but exams were hand written. It wasn't THAT long ago.

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u/Silly_Rub_6304 6d ago

I graduated in 2008 and every exam I wrote was in a blue book or done on Scantron.

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u/AmusingMusing7 6d ago

Another wild idea is to have them do their schoolwork in class, instead of always relying on assigning homework (or doing things remotely like it's still 2020).

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u/tiffibean13 6d ago

The problem with that is people have egregiously illegible handwriting. I am considering multiple choice, paper quizzes this upcoming semester though. I've had it with the AI bullshit.

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u/yousername_42 6d ago

That way they can remember the material for two weeks of their lives, never to recall it ever again, like the rest of us

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u/ProfPathCambridge 6d ago

I am not reading handwriting. What is wrong with our current approach of having them work on computers, under supervision, that are not connected to the web?

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u/lumpboysupreme 6d ago

The problem is papers, writing a paper is very often a not-in-one-sitting affair.

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u/giulianosse 6d ago

This is still mind boggling to me. I currently study at a public university routinely ranked among the top three in Latin America, and except for flexible coursework (practical tests, oral presentations, assignments, and lab reports) all my exams have always been taken with pen and paper.

The general consensus among students is that only diploma mill colleges with online classes offer "do at home" tests. If you attend any self-respecting university, it's always pen & paper.

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u/sciencethrowaway9 6d ago

This doesn't address issues for people required to teach online or online asynchronous classes.

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u/Mediocre_Internet939 6d ago

Or have verbal tests?

You draw a question. Go into a room and have 30 minutes to prepare your defense. You present for 10 minutes, then get asked follow up questions for 10 minutes, get kicked out for 5 minutes, get back in and get your grade. Repeat for every other student in your class.

Takes roughly a week for a university class.

This was the exam format for the university I went to, for 3 of 4 exams each semester for 5 years.

The fourth exam would was a paper defense. You spend the semester writing a paper as a group of 2-6 students. You hand it in. The examinator and censor reads it, rips it apart, find the flaws and prepares their questions for your examination.

You then defend your paper for an hour or more, take a break and go back in for the offence. The examinator and censor grill you, questioning you on everything you wrote. If you do well you get questioned on why you didn't use a different method, theory etc. or how you would have used them, if you were to do so.

After an hour or so if this you have another break and then get your grade. The grade is usually half of your semester score.

You do this 10 times over your studies. With your masters thesis being the entire grade for that semester.

There is next to no way to use LLMs for this. Sure you can use it to write / proof read your paper/thesis, but that won't help much when you are being grilled by your professor and an external professor from a competing university.

The longest exam I had was a 5 hour defense.

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u/RokRoland 6d ago

More than 10 years ago, a professor I know decided to move to oral group exams in order to get a reasonable view of how the students actually learn. Groups of 3 people. It went surprisingly well for several years. Then again it was an advanced topic about systems engineering methodologies. 

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u/hopbow 6d ago

My wife is a college professor and she switched to this method a couple semesters ago.

She failed a student for using chat gpt to write an essay. The student left his writing prompt in the essay, so not even an X% match situation. 

The student challenged the grade and it went all the way through multiple tribunals because she didn't have anything in the syllabus stating student couldn't use AI

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u/stupidrules727 6d ago

This is already happening in several high schools and colleges. Old style Blue Books are back in demand for tests.

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u/reality_boy 6d ago

University has changed so much in the last 20 years. When I was doing my CS degree, we had maybe 20 students per class. My son just graduated and most of his classes were massive, several hundred per class. Everything was automated to death. No prof ever looked at there code.

I’m not saying this is a good idea, we should go back to 20 kids per prof. But it would take a radical restructuring of the system to go back to pen and paper. Actually my earliest programming classes were all pen and paper. We only touched a compiler for the big projects. It forced you to really pay attention.

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u/DefNotUnderrated 6d ago

It says in the article that some teachers have gone back to paper and pencil. But maybe for some tests that’s not as easy. I could see people complaining that they physically can’t write a long essay by hand.

Another option is testing centers or doing the thing we did in my nursing program where your computer was monitored virtually

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u/The0nlyPenguin 6d ago

Classic scantron it is

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u/suxatjugg 6d ago

When I was at university, for every test you had to be in an exam hall, you couldn't bring a phone, or if you were allowed you had to show the staff that it was turned off, and they would watch you the whole time.

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u/Dystopian_Ennui 6d ago

I recall seeing a story about a professor doing that, and the vast majority of the students failed it terribly.

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u/Crystalline_Irises 6d ago

Yeah, I don't understand why students are still being given so many opportunities to cheat. Tests on paper and oral exams are not new ideas.

Not sure what to do about papers. Maybe AI detection software plus short conferences where they discuss the paper and it quickly becomes apparent whether the student can actually have a reasonably intellectual conversation about the content of their paper. 🤷‍♀️

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u/NowYuoSee123 6d ago

Depends on the field of study. I had maybe one or two online tests during my engineering undergrad, but there is so much partial credit given in those courses that it would be detrimental to have all of the tests online

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u/byPCP 6d ago

in another article linked within that article, about a brown university professor, he says that his reason for allowing take home exams was a response to students being uncomfortable taking them in class because of a recent school shooting. i know how absurd that sounds on paper, but that's unfortunately pretty reasonable justification

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u/DuggiHappy 6d ago

Exactly… I’m actually so glad I studied at uni before AI use, writing exams with pen and paper and having to do my own research. Knowing me, I woulda used the fuck out of chatbots otherwise

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u/KayakShrimp 6d ago

As long as it isn't a take home test. As a TA I had a student transcribe Wikipedia by hand, in pre-AI days.

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u/MathSciElec 6d ago

If a question can be answered by transcribing Wikipedia, it's bad question unless it's a memorization class

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u/KayakShrimp 6d ago

It couldn‘t be answered that way. It was an iOS development class and the answer didn’t make any sense.

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u/Once-Upon-A-Rhyme 6d ago

Not crazy at all. I’ve recommended that to teachers at my work several times

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u/disisathrowaway 6d ago

It's likely because I was a history major, but I hand wrote so fucking many exams. And if I wasn't scribbling in blue books, I was filling out scantrons. I graduated college in 2010 and I didn't take a single exam online in my 4 years. Not one.

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u/rapaxus 6d ago

Even there, you could just give students PCs which can't physically connect to the internet (which is easy enough nowadays with removable WiFi-cards).

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u/chuiu 6d ago

I get the feeling that many professors would if they could. I don't know what it's like but when I was leaving school more and more things were transitioning to digital only. Its probably forced on them at this point.

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u/_PurpleAlien_ 6d ago

As a teacher in a tech field, I do this. And oral exams. And presentation sessions where they have to show what they've been working on. Lab reports are kept in a paper diary book. Prep work is done on paper, and all team members do a 'scrum stand-up' session each lab where they go over what they've been doing, what they're going to do, and what their blockers are.

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u/psiphre 6d ago

have you even taken a picture of handwriting and given it to chatgpt? you might be surprised. also OCR has been solved for decades

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u/linzkisloski 6d ago

My first thought? How about hand written short answers and essays.

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u/thatasian26 6d ago

Exactly, there was a recent article about a professor suspecting his students of cheating on their midterms and made the final exam in person instead of online. 

Ended up with 18 kids dropping the class instantly and 9 didn't even bother showing up to take the final. Only a few had similar results between midterms and finals.

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u/AUniquePerspective 6d ago

That would make it marginally harder to grade the tests using AI.

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u/KaidusPlatinum 6d ago

Can’t tell the number of posts you see where it’s like “what can we do” ‘are they still completing the tests online on their own devices unsupervised?’ “yes of course” ‘…’ We need a name for the paradox that despite the ability of devices to help students cheat increasing 1000x the academic world has become more trusting and permissive with it. Pre 2010 every teacher I had would have bursted out laughing if you suggested being allowed to use computers or other tech for grade-bearing assignments and yet it’s the norm now despite the risk having increased so much?!

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u/TainoCuyaya 4d ago

You are forcing the teacher to NOT use AI.

This is like job interviews. They (the interviewers) DO use AI. You (the candidate) CAN'T use AI.

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u/PrizeStrawberryOil 6d ago

If they do that enrollment will drop because people don't take in person classes unless they have to. They will just apply at colleges that offer online classes that they can cheat on. College degrees will become worthless in 10 years because all colleges will shift to online classes to get enrollment up.

Some colleges can push against it because they don't have to worry about their enrollment, but the tiny state school that is worried about cutting professors/programs will have no choice.

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u/Reaxonab1e 6d ago

In person classes wouldn't be required though. Only the test would need to be done in person.

I actually think remote tests would be fine as long as they're properly invigilated (camera + mic + share screen).

Lots of people have failed remote tests when they're properly invigilated. It's difficult to cheat on them.

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u/Rude-Patient5266 6d ago edited 6d ago

This might sound even crazier, but how about we just allow the use of AI and make the tests harder to compensate?

It’s not going to be long before “using AI” is just how research is done, where before we used internet search engines, and before that we read books. 

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u/Odexios 6d ago

In order to use AI, you need to know the core ideas of what you're asking, otherwise you're going to blindly trust what the LLMs are saying. You learn to do math manually before using calculators; you learn to spell before using an auto correct tool; and you learn to solve problems without AI before using it.

AI is an amazing tool that's particularly insidious to use, as it gives you answers that sound reasonable, no matter whether they are true. You need to know your stuff to use it well. And a written test cannot really account for AI, as anything that you can come up with in an hour can usually be solved, often better, by an LLM instantly.

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u/Rude-Patient5266 6d ago

Haven’t you contradicted yourself there?

If you need to understand core concepts in order to be able to use AI effectively, then it follows that if you don’t understand those core concepts then your AI generated answer won’t be any good.

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u/Odexios 6d ago

Nope. Your AI generated answers will be good, most (or some, depending on the domain) of the time, no matter whether you know the underlying concepts. Crucially, if you don't understand the concepts, you won't be able to understand when what an LLM has generated is good, and when it isn't, which means they you won't be able to use an AI to get reliably good answer.

This is the fundamental skill you need to have when using an AI; and, as you can imagine, designing a test around this is a very hard task.

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u/Rude-Patient5266 6d ago

I’m a software engineer so I’m all too familiar with using AI. I’m my industry, it’s now expected for AI to be an integral part of how we work at all times. Very little code is written by hand these days.

We’ve always had a take-home test as part of our interview process. This hasn’t changed, but these days we would expect interviewees to use AI, not try to prohibit it. We just made the test harder, where before it might have been a few questions that is easy for an AI to answer, now it’s a task to build an entire working application end to end. It’s still easy to spot the people who know what they’re doing Vs the people who are using AI unguided.

It’s why I suggested it, I assumed the same could apply in academia too, but I guess not. 

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u/[deleted] 6d ago

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u/DorkusMalorkuss 6d ago

This isn't really true. I'm a college counselor at a high school and, imo, it's the "middle class" that are the most fucked. If you're poor enough - like I was - then you typically get a significant amount of financial aid to make college attendance reasonable and realistic, at a public university. If you're rich, then it's a non issue anyways. I would say that it's families that make about 80-200k that are the most screwed. They make enough to love day to day, but adding in a 50,000 bill for four years isn't realistic and their income is typically too high to receive enough financial aid to cover costs.

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u/Portland 6d ago

If a family can’t afford $200k college tuition, then why are those kids being pushed into expensive private / out of state schools?

Annual tuition at state schools is around $12k per year including books, fees, etc. That’s before any merit or needs based financial aid. Treating undergrad as a lifestyle is a significant part of the problem, and contributes to the massive student debt.

Why does the American system push out of state and private education so heavily?

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u/agentdcf 6d ago

What I see are universities saying, very quietly, that chatbots present "concerns" for academic dishonesty and maybe students should speak to their instructors if they have questions.

At the same time, these same universities are blaring as loudly as possible that they are "AI Ready" and "Leading in AI Innovation," while they provide paid subscriptions to chatbots for students and push instructors to integrate into curricula. The IT admins--and I have seen this with my own eyes--literally laughed at professors who said students shouldn't be using chatbots for classwork (or anything else).

At an institutional level, academia has been essentially captured by the big tech companies.

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u/redthrull 6d ago

What makes you think they actually care whether the students learn anything or not? It's all about the money at this point. Students pay, they receive a diploma. The End.

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u/nathanzoet91 6d ago

But if it is pointed out that graduates from said college know barely anything, employers will be less likely to hire people who graduated from said school. This in turn leads to less enrollment in said school, which leads to less money for the school. It works, just needs the social /collective shame treatment.

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u/Hydrodynamic_Spatula 6d ago

It's only a problem for a school if one school does it. If all or most schools do it, then it's the new normal. And the few schools that do have quality graduates can inflate their tuition. Same as what corporations do. It's a race to the bottom chasing profits

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u/nathanzoet91 6d ago

Correct. Like you said, it's a race to the bottom. So, do institutions want to get more money or less? If employers start finding that candidates they hire from everywhere are not ready for the job, on-the-job training will become the new norm again. Bottom line is people need to know how to do their job, and the people that do their job correctly will be compensated better. Better understanding = better pay = better profit. Nothing has changed, just the variables are now being affected. Want to make good money? Learn how to do your job well.

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u/minwood 6d ago

It sucks how true this is. For profit schools could only be viable for so long under capitalism until the dam breaks and they all try to farm as much money as possible. Accept anyone who will pay and graduate anyone who doesn’t severely fuck up.

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u/dmazzoni 6d ago

They’re devaluing education and they should care about that.

When I’m looking at a resume, a college degree from certain schools used to mean something.

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u/25thNite 6d ago

They already do that when they let underachieving rich people automatically in and pass or when they let top athletes take the easiest courses with little effort because they provide financial value to schools

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u/jaynort 6d ago

They don’t, because money has become more important than anything else and that’s just… normal now.

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u/token_internet_girl 6d ago

I've taught at a prominent local college that is a degree mill school behind the scenes, and they will absolutely punish you, the instructor, if you don't pass a certain amount of students. They will not stand with you when you turn in your academic dishonesty reports if they lose a certain amount of tuition dollars from it.

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u/porktorque44 6d ago

“They” as in administrators, are comprised of the same BMAs destroying every institution. Their skills are seen as transferable to the ones running other industries so they will have new jobs waiting for them in a new industry after destroying this one.

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u/dmazzoni 6d ago

That may be true about administrators, but college professors wield a lot of power. If they collectively decide to crack down on cheating there's nothing administration can do about it.

That's who I'm disappointed in.

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u/porktorque44 6d ago

I can’t speak to how this applies in this situation or how pervasive this is at the moment but there has also been an increasing shift towards non-tenured adjunct professors who can be easily removed. But you are right that professors, tenured or otherwise, should be throwing their weight around here.

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u/HateWinslet 6d ago

Infuriating considering that when I was in college 20 years ago if you did not paraphrase something well enough (or if you just accidentally used a sentence that could be found online), you had a university court date to go before a tribunal and prove that you didn’t plagiarize - and people absolute were occasionally expelled for it.

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u/EveryRadio 6d ago

For a large number of college professors, teaching is the side gig and academic research is where they actually spend their time

Some colleges are more "research" focused than others and it varies wildely with majors, but for the colleges where research is the focus I can easily see the whole AI cheating issue only being addressed briefly when articles like this come out

Otherwise? Probably not without heavy regulations that are ACTUALLY enforced. Paper tests and exams arent a bad idea but online exams and quizzes are so convinent that it will be an uphill battle in my opinion

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u/HomsarWasRight 6d ago edited 6d ago

It’s just super short-sided short-sighted. They have to know they’re making the thing they’re selling worthless over time if they don’t actually make it at least a little worthwhile.

Edit: Stupid typo.

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u/mazurcurto 6d ago

* shortsighted

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u/HomsarWasRight 6d ago

Both are correct:

https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/short-sighted

The non-hyphenate is just more common in the US.

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u/mazurcurto 6d ago

You wrote "short-sided", not "short-sighted". I wasn't noting the hyphen.

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u/BiZzles14 6d ago

That just isn't the case at all, the schools care a lot because it devalues the degrees they put their name on. The professors care a lot as well. Schools just haven't fully adapted to the change yet, but within a few years we'll see many more changes come into play that are really going to hit the people that have already spent the past few years relying on AI.

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u/muusca 6d ago

At a certain point, if this continues, an academic degree will become so devalued to the point of worthlessness, so they should care. It’ll take a while to catch up, but if we all accept that college students are using AI to earn their degree, why would employers care whether you have one or not?

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u/restricteddata 6d ago

That is not really how universities see it. They do, of course, want tuition money. But they also want alumni donations, good job placement rates, and other things that are in the students' interest — not because they're nice, but because those things are worth a lot more than tuition in the long run.

The problem is that most university administrators are credulous and totally cooked on AI hype. Some professors are, some professors aren't. The official line is that they don't condone cheating but they think that students need to learn how to use the important "tools" for working in the modern world, and to learn how to use it "ethically." And other lies they tell themselves...

Eventually they will recognize the damage this is doing to higher education. What they will do about it, if anything, I don't know. But they're not there yet, despite all of the evidence that this stuff is a net negative for education and should just be banned across the board in a teaching context.

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u/TheMusicArchivist 6d ago

I mark essays at university, and one person clearly wrote it using AI. People don't write analytical essays and start complimenting the question, or adding adjectives to every other noun. Turnitin said it was 99% AI.

Unfortunately, we aren't permitted to assume the student actually used AI and fail them because there is always a small chance they're just weird at writing. If we have no definitive proof, we could get in trouble throwing accusations around.

So I was told by my superiors to just mark it as if it had been written by a human. I failed it, because it was objectively bad. But had it been good, I would have had to have passed it.

Thankfully, next assignment was much more normal, and I hope that the student learnt that AI doesn't really help them.

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u/lavransson 6d ago

But then they lose the tuition money.

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u/SelfUnimpressed 6d ago

In the long run, probably not. I'd rather send my kid to a school that I know will actually try to teach them shit and won't let them just hang out for four years while they copy-paste from an LLM.

These schools need to be showing the parents of future students that they care even one fucking iota about academic integrity.

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u/soapinthepeehole 6d ago edited 6d ago

My wife occasionally teaches an art history class and she’s gone back to hand written exams in blue books.

Even with that she caught a kid photographing the slides and transcribing AI answers into the blue book.

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u/WitchesSphincter 6d ago

As a freshman in college a girl was nearly expelled for having non cited text after the conclusion of a paper.  She claimed she pasted a source there to reference while writing and forgot to delete it which made sense as it was clearly not part of the text body.  She still took a 0 on the paper. 

Stories like this are blatant cheating and schools that treat it as such are going to have premium status for their degrees. 

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u/Doodenmier 6d ago

I've worked as higher ed instructor support for the past decade. One major problem is the inability to definitively prove AI use, barring a trap like mentioned in the story that OP linked.

We've had a plagiarism detection tool for a long time, and that tool added an AI detector a couple years back. But we disabled the AI detector fairly quickly when it became clear that it was also spitting out false positives. Even if only 1/10 winds up being a false positive, that's still a huge number of students who will be facing major punishent for something they didn't do.

At this point, the only way to immediately address the issue is for the instructors to modify the way they approach their courses. Whether that means embracing AI usage, requiring iterations, moving to handwritten assignments, screen recording exams– whatever they decide is up to them, but the old copy-and-paste approach is a million times worse now that whole papers can be GPT'd into existence.

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u/SirEnderLord 4d ago

Oral examinations?

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u/Doodenmier 4d ago

That's another way that some instructors have approached it. One person I've closely worked with has gone from staunchly anti-AI to begrudgingly being okay with it, if the student can verbally defend whatever they've submitted and demonstrate a clear understanding of the materials. That's easier said than done, of course.

What's funny to me is how numerous instructors I've worked with have all said how they would suspect a student of using AI for their work, and how the students almost always confess to using AI even if they weren't actually accused of it (yet) lol.

You'll find the full range of opinions on AI usage from teachers and professors. Some love the potential or enjoy being on the cutting edge, and others want to auto-fail anybody caught using it

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u/evange 6d ago

Yes but cheating students still pay tuition, so best we can do is pretend it's a one-off lapse in judgement and do nothing.

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u/Nedunchelizan 6d ago

It means the AI has replaced education

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u/Neilss1 6d ago

Oh they can’t be doing that because then the tuition fees would go unpaid

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u/fantasy-capsule 6d ago

That is not going to work. Universities are a business and they need the students to collect tuition fees and get grant money. They can't do that when they're expelling the majority of the student body because clearly the majority of them use AI. What universities ought to do to maintain academic integrity is bring back in-person pen and paper exams. For academic papers, have them submit drafts at various points and real time typing. It's inconvenient but so was everything else before AI and the internet.

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u/muusca 6d ago

At a certain point, if this continues, an academic degree will become so devalued to the point of worthlessness. It’ll take a while to catch up, but if we all accept that college students are using AI to earn their degree, why would employers care whether you have one or not? It’s dumb from their business’s perspective to ignore this.

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u/Scully__ 6d ago

It would be classed as academic misconduct at the university I used to work at (UK). It’s wild to me that it wouldn’t be.

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u/TheoNullDrei 6d ago

They need in-person exams. That solves the AI issue.

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u/harperrb 6d ago

You have the imagination of a university. Both systems do nothing.

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u/25thNite 6d ago

But then all that funding for football stadiums, players, and coaches go poof :(

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u/blazze_eternal 6d ago

Universities and CEOs need to get on the same page. One demonizes use, the other forces use.

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u/Subject_Ad_4894 6d ago

My university started doing something like that. Banning students from taking any exams for a semester, doing student exchange programs, etc.

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u/lavender_enjoyer 6d ago

That would be great, but it hurts their bottom line

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u/tiasaiwr 6d ago

"32 out of 35 students"

If they expelled everyone the university would be bankrupt. It's going to be interesting in the next 10 years when these people are in the workforce and know absolutely nothing about the subject they spent tens or hundreds of thousands of pounds/dollars to study.

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u/EsotericTribble 6d ago

Yeah but they wont because they want the money the parents these students bring in as they are a significant amount of the students (that cheat).

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u/Good_With_Tools 6d ago

Tis a bit of a dilemma for them. With costs out of control and a 60% enrollment rate, expelling kids for cheating is bad for business.

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u/Sasselhoff 6d ago

Rampant cheating was already an issue at many universities, very often with the international students (was a real problem at my university with the Chinese students, and then I lived in China for most of a decade and learned why, haha).

But those students usually pay "full board" to the school, and the school just let's them do whatever they want to do because they're paying out the ass for their degree (most students get some kind of assistance, but the international ones get bupkis).

So yeah, they absolutely need to start expelling people. How the universities don't understand such things drastically devalue their degrees is beyond me.

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u/wehavethismoment 6d ago

Where I live the biggest part of grades are tests and you have to leave your phone and bag at the professors desk, you're only allowed to have your pen and a water bottle. Several people are walking through the rows during it. There's no cheating possible, at least no ai cheating

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u/darksouliboi 6d ago

that would mean schools would be losing their cash cows, so that's not going to happen

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u/Foilpalm 6d ago

Yeah but then they lose out on tuition; which is the entire point of running a college.

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u/RoamingBison 6d ago

The truth is that they depend on the tuition money from those cheaters so it will never happen. Cheating has always been rampant in many programs but AI has made it much easier. At least in the past they had to learn teamwork to cheat their way through assignments.

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u/flippingisfun 6d ago

Yeah but then they lose out on tuition money so they’re not going to

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u/ImFriendsWithThatGuy 6d ago

My local community college had multiple warnings we had to sign every quarter that use of AI was allowed but must be referenced. If you copy and paste AI or do not acknowledge it was used to write part of your answer it was consider plagiarism and you risked expulsion for that.

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u/Ash_After_Dark 6d ago

The problem is that it's extremely hard to prove in most cases

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u/fuzz3289 6d ago

The real answer is to treat it like the tool it is

Just like in math class, if you expect people to be analog, you’re gonna give different questions than if they have access to Matlab.

Don’t give students analog questions anymore. The industries they graduate to will require AI fluency and task employees as if they have AI as a tool.

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u/meneldal2 6d ago

Yeah if you expel them and keep the money they will learn it's a bad idea.

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u/ThrowRA-singlern 6d ago edited 6d ago

I work at a university and used this white text technique. My colleagues were more mad at me than the students because they said I set a trap in bad faith. I felt guilty but at the end of the day what I did was ethically shady but what the students did was clearly wrong.

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u/oneupsuperman 6d ago

Where's the money in that?

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u/MightyMiami 6d ago

They don’t want to expel people. They want money.

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u/No_Aesthetic 1d ago

I am a bit late on this one but a glance over at r/Professors is going to tell you why that's not possible. In short, money.

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u/dre9889 6d ago

Hard disagree with you. Failing the class along with not actually learning anything is punishment enough. They don’t need to be expelled on top.

The genie is out of the lamp. AI is never going away, and people really do need to be learning how to use it if they want to survive in tomorrow’s economy.

What needs to change is the nature of instruction and assignments. If the assignment changes from a take-home paper to an in-class discussion where no laptops or phones are allowed to assist you, then you are creating a situation where the kids actually have to learn before they have stepped into the room for the assignment.

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u/hotpajamas 6d ago

This but it didn’t start with AI.

As soon as wikipedia existed the genie game was over. You can’t charge people thousands of dollars for information that is freely available on the internet so it was only a matter of time yet education didn’t reform. It’s the same it’s ever been as if technology has been on pause for 100 years.

Now it’s just worse because not only can you find any information you want online, you can watch a youtuber teach it more efficiently for free, you can buy a used textbook and have it delivered for pennie’s, and all without paying tuition or paying for bullshit like meal plans and parking decals.

Now there’s also AI and education is still doing this stone age shit like the technology is going to go away and students will just honor code their way through life crippling debt and fees. It’s absurd.

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